What did we learn about Ardent's soulcasting?

[gofunkiertti]

So there was a half chapter on Soulcasting and it seemed to hint at a lot of mysteries

 

That included the five Soulcasters. Each stood with right hand to breast, displaying a sparkling fabrial across the back of the palm. One of the ardents glanced at Adolin. Stormfather—that gaze wasn’t completely human, not any longer. Prolonged use of the Soulcaster had transformed the eyes so that they sparkled like gemstones themselves. The woman’s skin had hardened to something like stone, smooth, with fine cracks. It was as if the person were a living statue.

So at the very least Soulcasters have the same effect as Shardblades too. Shallans shardblade will probably be able to turn into a soulcaster once she makes higher levels. Is there any chance that some of these people (or all of them) are radiants in disguise?

 

 

What did they think about others training on their fabrials? Their almost-alien expressions were unreadable.

At the very least they are probably soul bonded to the fabrials.

 

 

Adolin thought he caught a brief glimpse of mist coalescing—like the moment a Shardblade appeared—as a massive wall sprang into existence. Wind blew inward, as if sucked by that materializing rock, making the cloth flap violently, snapping and writhing in the air. Why should the wind pull inward? Shouldn’t it have been blown outward by rock displacing it?

Is this simply because a gas is being condensed into a solid or am I missing something?

 

 

The Soulcasters retreated, not speaking with the other ardents.

So a separate group inside the larger church perhaps?

 

So are Ardent soul casters different because of exposure to soulcasters or were they already different and the soulcaster exposure just increased the effects. Any chance that they are related to one of the many secret factions going around?

 

[Argent he/him]

I am not sure I follow you here. How is it that the Soulcasters have the same effect as the Shardblades? Shallan's skin doesn't turn to stone and her eyes don't look like gems (as far as we know) when she Soulcasts. Kaladin doesn't show any of those effects either. And what makes you say the ardents are "soul bonded" to the fabrials? Do you mean in a way similar to the Nahel bond Radiants and their spren share? Because I am not seeing that either.

[11thorderknight]

The effect on the eyes and skin are described here for the first time, and we really dont' know much, if anything, about them. Adolin seems to know about the effect, and that it requires prolonged use. This is certainly plausible; we know that Brightlord Davar had a Soulcaster for several years and didn't exhibit any outwards effects. Jasnah's also been soulcasting for 6 years, or close to it, without any outward signs. Maybe it's a hint that using fabrials that mimic surgebindings will have an effect on people.

 

There is no relation to Shardblades here. The air sucking in is telling us that matter isn't being conjured from nothing - air is being compressed into enough density to become stone. In another thread a long time ago, I postulated that this was the reason that sapphires are second in value only to emeralds; they are needed in order to compress air to sufficient density to transform it to useful solid objects.

[Jeckal he/him]

This really piqued my entrance when I read it, I certainly hope we learn more about prolonged soul-casting soon.

 

I'm very curious, in particular, about the effect on the eyes, and the fact Adolin doesn't consider them human, because 'crystalline' was used to describe Aimians (Like Axies) eyes, and WoB said the Aimians are not human; but perhaps they once where. Maybe they are the original creators of the soul-casters.

 

Not sure I actually believe that, but just throwing it out as a thought.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Jeckal

[JamHeretic]

I seem to recall that ardents usually use the same soulcasters, and that soulcasters are generally aligned to an essence. Which makes me wonder - the statue-ardents we saw were soulcasting into stone. Would ardents who habitually used soulcasters aligned to, say, Pulp turn woody? Would a soulcaster aligned to Crystal make them sparkly?

[gofunkiertti]

I was suggesting that in much the same way a Shardblade could become a spear in the book it could also turn into a soulcaster. I am suggesting that soulcasters are essentially shardblades in another form.

[darkanimereal1]

I was suggesting that in much the same way a Shardblade could become a spear in the book it could also turn into a soulcaster. I am suggesting that soulcasters are essentially shardblades in another form.

 

However, based on the evidence from WoR, only "living" shardblades are able to change shape, such as becoming a shard spear. In order to have a living shardblade, you need to have a bond with a living spren and be in the process of becoming a Knight Radiant. All of the other shardblades are "dead" blades (such as the ones held by the Alethi lighteyes). 

Because of this, even if it were possible for a KR's spren to become a soulcaster (which I highly doubt, since there are only two orders of soulcasters--see Jasnah and Shallan--and both of those do not require the use of a physical object, but instead going to Shadesmar), the soulcasters that the Ardents are using would be "dead" soulcasters. 

I really don't think your theory makes much sense based on what we've learned so far. That being said, it is all really interesting. There's so much that happened in this book that I had forgotten about this wonderful little bit

[LordCitrus]

It's more likely that the fabrials have flaws, namely, that the users cannot communicate with the cognitive aspect of objects the way Radiant soulcasters can. I can imagine the fabrial forcing a transformation without any subtlety or precision, and alter unintended targets as well.

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

This really peeked my entrance when I read it, I certainly hope we learn more about prolonged soul-casting soon.

 

I'm very curious, in particular, about the effect on the eyes, and the fact Adolin doesn't consider them human, because 'crystalline' was used to describe Aimians (Like Axies) eyes, and WoB said the Aimians are not human; but perhaps they once where. Maybe they are the original creators of the soul-casters.

 

Not sure I actually believe that, but just throwing it out as a thought.

"piqued my interest"

 

On the main topic, Soulcasting Ardents are interesting, and strange, but I still don't have enough to speculate.  Why should they change from normal? How much use is prolonged use? Do they actually interact with Shadesmar when they Soulcast, or do they bypass it entirely?

[breadcrumbs]

So the real question is where do Soulcasting fabrials come from? Obviously it's not enough to create a copy and fill it with gems, as the Davars have shown us. What special aspect about their fabrials allow them to Soulcast, and if it does at all, how does it interact with Shadesmar?

[Argent he/him]

However, based on the evidence from WoR, only "living" shardblades are able to change shape, such as becoming a shard spear. In order to have a living shardblade, you need to have a bond with a living spren and be in the process of becoming a Knight Radiant. All of the other shardblades are "dead" blades (such as the ones held by the Alethi lighteyes). 

 

Not only that, but dead "Sprenblades" revert back to a sword shape when they "die" (as per a recent WoB). They started doing the whole Blade thing to mimic the Honorblades, so they turn into blades and not jewelry.

[11thorderknight]

On the ship, when Jasnah told Shallan about her correspondence back and forth with Navani, it was implied that Navani didn't think the break was such a big deal; she said "you'd be surprised how often that happens" and seemed reasonably certain she could fix it. Now, may she could have, and maybe not; we'll never know (though now that we know the Soulcaster was broken by a regular sword and not a Shardblade, the chances are higher). Anyway, the important thing is, Navani knows enough about the Ardents' Soulcasters to know that they can break, and how to fix them.

 

We know the key portion of a soulcaster is NOT in the gems, since those are swapped out all the time. Navani mentions the alignment of the gem housings as being critical, but obviously there's more to it that just that, otherwise she'd be making new soulcasters.

 

My theory on fabrials in general is that the gemstones are used to "target" the effect to the essence corresponding to the gemstone, while the surge that's accessed is determined by shape of the metal that holds the gems. Spren have to be trapped somehow as well, maybe by describing their "measurements" on the metal, or some other way.

[darkanimereal1]

On the ship, when Jasnah told Shallan about her correspondence back and forth with Navani, it was implied that Navani didn't think the break was such a big deal; she said "you'd be surprised how often that happens" and seemed reasonably certain she could fix it. Now, may she could have, and maybe not; we'll never know (though now that we know the Soulcaster was broken by a regular sword and not a Shardblade, the chances are higher). Anyway, the important thing is, Navani knows enough about the Ardents' Soulcasters to know that they can break, and how to fix them.

 

We know the key portion of a soulcaster is NOT in the gems, since those are swapped out all the time. Navani mentions the alignment of the gem housings as being critical, but obviously there's more to it that just that, otherwise she'd be making new soulcasters.

 

My theory on fabrials in general is that the gemstones are used to "target" the effect to the essence corresponding to the gemstone, while the surge that's accessed is determined by shape of the metal that holds the gems. Spren have to be trapped somehow as well, maybe by describing their "measurements" on the metal, or some other way.

 

Interesting thought. I'm not sure if I agree with the bolded section. I could see it going either way.

 

It could just be that Navani isn't going around making a bunch of soulcasters since they are a religious "untouchable" item. She only makes them when asked for one specifically by an ardent for use only by ardents.

 

However, I also think that the material they're made from may come into play. This thought is somewhat tenuous, since it could be the combination of the alignment of the device in addition to the power from the gems that makes the entire fabrial work as a whole. But part of me wants to believe that the material plays an important role.

 

My first thought was, "Oh! What about the material that the Oathgate is made of!?" However, that material couldn't be hurt by a shardblade. Technically, no one has tried hurting the material with a normal sword, but if a shardblade can't hurt it then I suspect a normal sword wouldn't be able to any damage either. Since we know that soulcasters can be damaged by normal swords (again, Lin Davar's), this seems to rule out whatever that material was. Plus, if it was the special material, I doubt that Navani would have the technical expertise to fix soulcasters, which isn't true based on what she told Jasnah.

[HydrogenAlpha he/him]

I think that every time a person uses a soulcast-fabrial to turn something into a certain essence, the person turns a little of himself into that essence, too. Brandon actually said that fabrial soulcasting has a certain price .. i think this is it.
I think thats the reason we only see ardents turning stuff into stone or metal or other solid things. I would prefer wooden nails to turning my thumb into gas.

[name_here]

The artifabrians at least claim to not know how to make new ones. However, they apparently can repair them even if they've been entirely cut through. I would guess there's a "black box" that may be exclusively spiritual or cognitive that provides the transformation, and the physical structure and gemstones power, trigger, and control that transformation. The artifabrians cannot replicate the central component, but they can create new control housings. The visible portion of the Soulcaster doesn't seem to be that complicated, but apparently requires very high precision.

 

The material is apparently pretty unremarkable silver, because someone without any expertise in the matter managed to get Shallan's fixed enough to look right. However, even if the material isn't special, it might very well be specific. For instance, if you substituted iron it might not work even if you got the dimensions correct.

Edited March 16, 2014 by name_here