Mid-Range Game 56: Day of Reckoning

[StrikerEZ he/him]

I could buy that claim.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

13 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

When an Epic dies, I can harvest their cells and create a single-use item to pass to someone else. I can't use the items.

That would seem to mesh with Archer's roleclaim if dead players don't have their alignments and/or roles revealed for the cycle when their cells could be harvested. A logical inference from Archer's claimed role even. Thematically a village/neutral role unless the elims aren't all Epics.

[---]

4 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

I could buy that claim.

For how much

[Stick. she/her]

Mat for obvious reasons of self pres, though I am also open to switching to Striker because his votes have been oddly self-conflicting. In fact Mat’s vote on me despite reading me village apparently also does not make much sense - I let it marinate overnight because the level of desperation seemed to indicate either v!mat with a highly powerful role that would be really useful for us to have, or e!mat. But given this role claim I’m kind of left with the latter now. 3/5 people haven’t given reasons for them voting me and out of the 2/5, devo is exeing me for having a role (? :P). Just feel like it’s painfully obvious something’s off about this train  

EDIT; why do I always forget to green out my votes smh 

Experience

Edited February 12, 2022 by _Stick_

[Ashbringer he/him]

Hmm. @Matrim's Dice, is that an active or a passive ability? I.e. do you just get an item when any Epic dies, or do you have to sample a dying player or a dead player? 

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

5 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

devo is exeing me for having a role (? :P).

If you are an Epic on an all-Epic team, it would be easy for you to assume that of course all the elims would be Epics, just look at the name. More that you didn't seem worried about being tied in stark contrast to Mat and wanted to see if adding votes would change that.

[JNV]

Hi! The timing of cycle end is kind of inconvenient for me plus I'll be gone all day tomorrow so this is probably my last post of the cycle! Just a heads up, I'll probably only be able to post from a few hours before this to now ish on weekdays. A lot has happened! Let me try to catch up and give some thoughts.

So I feel like I forgot half of what I thought as I was reading but here's a reaeds bit by player I guess because I can't remember much

Illwei. I think I like Illwei because strong opinions + good reasons = nice and also not much cause for concern from what I've seen

Matrim. Talks a lot for things that don't really need to be talked about so much but also lampshades this later? Or is it really lampshading if its justification? I also can't find Experience's "single somewhat strange" read so I'm a bit confused. But they're not really doing anything? They're just talking around in circles that all come down to the indescribable nature of the mind and there's not really new things going on and a lot of the arguments deal with things I wasn't here for so... But also I like that they're at least trying to talk things through. And I get that its the first cycle so I don't really want them to die because it feels like they'll talk about more when theres more to talk about. 

Experience. Kind of like Mat but without the talking a lot bit? Hasn't really said much of anything and the one opinion he had (Amanuensis) went away after  taking a closer look so... Like if I vote for anyone (so far though, I've just looked at these three cause I'm going in order of the player list) it would be them? 

Kasimir. To be honest, I think I might just like this guy because they have great philosophical takes. Have some virtual applause because you deserve it. They have a lot of thoughts and I agree with a lot of the thoughts which is good in my book but also note for future JNV that you are sleep deprived and also easily swayed by lots of words so look into that for me future self

Striker. Just sort of voting around. Seems busy though so I think it's probably nothing. 

Aon. Had that one comment about vanilla vs regular then dipped. Hard to havve thoughts on people who arne't here which is why I kind of don't like low activity (I say as a low activity person. You know what, amend that to low contribution. Then again I haven't contrubted anything. Let's just say I'm a hypocrite and move on) By the way I asked TJ about regular and he did say it was the name of the vanilla role for the game so that's nice

Araris: Hasn't really done much to make me not like them. Strong opinions with reasons attached which is nice but not really significant honestly cause you could do that as both  sides

Ashbringer. I think the way they talk kind of confuses me or I'm sleep deprived because it's very very late and I should have gone to sleep three hours ago but they kind of seem like Matrim where they say things and say things and say things but those things don't really have much substance but at least the saying things bit is with things that seem like they could be substantial if elaborated on and might be around more later 

Tani. Hasn't done anything to actually contribute? Joked around a bit and voted without reasoning but other than that, not much? Kind of a negative feeling but Matrim said it was normal? Honestly I don't really know

Karnatheon. Showed up once to vote on Archer for info then disappeared. At least they had a reason? 

Devotary. Of the opinion that assuming village Epics is a logical leap for elims who are probably all Epics from the name so Archer village probably. I like this opinion. I don't know if I necessarily trust Devotary because of this because if they are an elim then when village Archer claimed they would know there are village Epics and respond accordingly but it's a point in their favor.

Archer. Very forward with information which I like and I think I'd trust them for being bold but not too far because paranoia.

STINK. Anti-meta chatter I think? Honestly not much there beyond standard disagreement. (You can see me talking less as this goes on. I'm falling asleep I think)

Stick. Good analysis of the Archer situation. I like their thoughts. And since it's between them and Matrim who doesn't feel like they've done much I'll go with Matrim for now. I'll probably regret this because I am very, very tired right now and I won't be able to get on tomorrow at all to reconsider but I think Stick has contributed more.

Szeth. Has done absolutely nothing. A solid question mark.

Mint. Popped up once as a confused person but like Szeth has done absolutely nothing. I'm a little suspicious of the overstated vote confusion because haven't they played before? I clicked on their profile and they've played. They voted in that game and stuff. But cycle one is hard, so I guess it could be nothing.

JNV. Me! I haven't really done much to be honest. Probably not trustworthy when this tired, honestly. But I'm almost done, so who needs sleep? (Me. I need sleep)

Amanuensis. I like their Archer take and their Matrim reasonings even if some of the Matrim reasonings seem slightly overstated but kind of because of the overstatement? Elims are less confident in my experience? Then again, that was a different environmnt so... 

Thaidakar. I know I said the extreme newbie bit was strange but at this point, it's probably not a bit. Good luck to you in your attempt to glean understanding and try to stand on your own opinions instead of just following other people

Orlok. Hasn't posted. Hopefully you join us soon!

Dannnex. (Is it just me or is that more n's than last time I saw that name?) Has done nothing.  

 

A ton of people posted while I was working on this. Nothing too important except that role claim. Matrim's role implies the existence of items in general and also the ability of Epic roles to be condensed into a neat little item? Or does it mean that you get a random item of a set that is easily itemable from any Epic? If anyone is willing to confirm the existence of items, that could make Matrim's role more plausible. Then again, this might be the only item source. 

@Matrim's Dice can your role be used more than once per dead Epic? If another Scientist also targeted the same dead Epic, would you both get an item? Is there a time limit on dead Epic conversion to item form or can it be used on any corpse no matter how long its been?

And it is a lot later than I planned for and I've been working on this for four hours and I have homework and I have to wake up early tomorrow so I'll see you on the other side of the cycle and hope it all ends well! Good night!

[Stick. she/her]

1 minute ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

If you are an Epic on an all-Epic team, it would be easy for you to assume that of course all the elims would be Epics, just look at the name.

I really don’t see the correlation here  the bolded is exactly why I assume this. Note that I’ve also previously said that the term epic maybe doesn’t necessary equal to a role. It could just be epic in flavour, without actions. I’m confused as to why everyone else wouldn’t make the same inference from the name? 

5 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

More that you didn't seem worried about being tied in stark contrast to Mat and wanted to see if adding votes would change that.

Yeah I wanted to see how people would vote, given the ripe targets. Like I said, I’d previously underestimated how much info we can get off D1 when there’s multiple people up for the exe until the AG, so I guess part of me was hoping to recreate that  There’s a chance we might’ve, I’ll have to evaluate the votes after this cycle if I’m still alive. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, JNV said:

Hi! The timing of cycle end is kind of inconvenient for me plus I'll be gone all day tomorrow so this is probably my last post of the cycle! Just a heads up, I'll probably only be able to post from a few hours before this to now ish on weekdays. A lot has happened! Let me try to catch up and give some thoughts.

So I feel like I forgot half of what I thought as I was reading but here's a reaeds bit by player I guess because I can't remember much

Illwei. I think I like Illwei because strong opinions + good reasons = nice and also not much cause for concern from what I've seen

Matrim. Talks a lot for things that don't really need to be talked about so much but also lampshades this later? Or is it really lampshading if its justification? I also can't find Experience's "single somewhat strange" read so I'm a bit confused. But they're not really doing anything? They're just talking around in circles that all come down to the indescribable nature of the mind and there's not really new things going on and a lot of the arguments deal with things I wasn't here for so... But also I like that they're at least trying to talk things through. And I get that its the first cycle so I don't really want them to die because it feels like they'll talk about more when theres more to talk about. 

Experience. Kind of like Mat but without the talking a lot bit? Hasn't really said much of anything and the one opinion he had (Amanuensis) went away after  taking a closer look so... Like if I vote for anyone (so far though, I've just looked at these three cause I'm going in order of the player list) it would be them? 

Kasimir. To be honest, I think I might just like this guy because they have great philosophical takes. Have some virtual applause because you deserve it. They have a lot of thoughts and I agree with a lot of the thoughts which is good in my book but also note for future JNV that you are sleep deprived and also easily swayed by lots of words so look into that for me future self

Striker. Just sort of voting around. Seems busy though so I think it's probably nothing. 

Aon. Had that one comment about vanilla vs regular then dipped. Hard to havve thoughts on people who arne't here which is why I kind of don't like low activity (I say as a low activity person. You know what, amend that to low contribution. Then again I haven't contrubted anything. Let's just say I'm a hypocrite and move on) By the way I asked TJ about regular and he did say it was the name of the vanilla role for the game so that's nice

Araris: Hasn't really done much to make me not like them. Strong opinions with reasons attached which is nice but not really significant honestly cause you could do that as both  sides

Ashbringer. I think the way they talk kind of confuses me or I'm sleep deprived because it's very very late and I should have gone to sleep three hours ago but they kind of seem like Matrim where they say things and say things and say things but those things don't really have much substance but at least the saying things bit is with things that seem like they could be substantial if elaborated on and might be around more later 

Tani. Hasn't done anything to actually contribute? Joked around a bit and voted without reasoning but other than that, not much? Kind of a negative feeling but Matrim said it was normal? Honestly I don't really know

Karnatheon. Showed up once to vote on Archer for info then disappeared. At least they had a reason? 

Devotary. Of the opinion that assuming village Epics is a logical leap for elims who are probably all Epics from the name so Archer village probably. I like this opinion. I don't know if I necessarily trust Devotary because of this because if they are an elim then when village Archer claimed they would know there are village Epics and respond accordingly but it's a point in their favor.

Archer. Very forward with information which I like and I think I'd trust them for being bold but not too far because paranoia.

STINK. Anti-meta chatter I think? Honestly not much there beyond standard disagreement. (You can see me talking less as this goes on. I'm falling asleep I think)

Stick. Good analysis of the Archer situation. I like their thoughts. And since it's between them and Matrim who doesn't feel like they've done much I'll go with Matrim for now. I'll probably regret this because I am very, very tired right now and I won't be able to get on tomorrow at all to reconsider but I think Stick has contributed more.

Szeth. Has done absolutely nothing. A solid question mark.

Mint. Popped up once as a confused person but like Szeth has done absolutely nothing. I'm a little suspicious of the overstated vote confusion because haven't they played before? I clicked on their profile and they've played. They voted in that game and stuff. But cycle one is hard, so I guess it could be nothing.

JNV. Me! I haven't really done much to be honest. Probably not trustworthy when this tired, honestly. But I'm almost done, so who needs sleep? (Me. I need sleep)

Amanuensis. I like their Archer take and their Matrim reasonings even if some of the Matrim reasonings seem slightly overstated but kind of because of the overstatement? Elims are less confident in my experience? Then again, that was a different environmnt so... 

Thaidakar. I know I said the extreme newbie bit was strange but at this point, it's probably not a bit. Good luck to you in your attempt to glean understanding and try to stand on your own opinions instead of just following other people

Orlok. Hasn't posted. Hopefully you join us soon!

Dannnex. (Is it just me or is that more n's than last time I saw that name?) Has done nothing.  

 

A ton of people posted while I was working on this. Nothing too important except that role claim. Matrim's role implies the existence of items in general and also the ability of Epic roles to be condensed into a neat little item? Or does it mean that you get a random item of a set that is easily itemable from any Epic? If anyone is willing to confirm the existence of items, that could make Matrim's role more plausible. Then again, this might be the only item source. 

@Matrim's Dice can your role be used more than once per dead Epic? If another Scientist also targeted the same dead Epic, would you both get an item? Is there a time limit on dead Epic conversion to item form or can it be used on any corpse no matter how long its been?

And it is a lot later than I planned for and I've been working on this for four hours and I have homework and I have to wake up early tomorrow so I'll see you on the other side of the cycle and hope it all ends well! Good night!

Bigger post incoming after I finish waking up.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

6 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

I’m confused as to why everyone else wouldn’t make the same inference from the name? 

I did also assume that, which is why the second part is more important. Still keeping the vote until I can see how things play out in the next several hours. If Mat's claim is true I don't know if I want to vote for him.

[StrikerEZ he/him]

Agree with Aman that JNV is village. That’s a lot of effort for an elim to put in at the expense of sleep/homework. Plus I think their reads are solid overall.

[Experience he/him]

I voted on Ash to see what their reaction would be, and there was basically none so that didn't help xD. Ashbringer

Spoiler

 

Can't get rid of the spoiler box on mobile. 

I'm pretty sure at least one person who voted me is an elim who then switched to the mat train. If I'm not mistaken, that's everyone that voted on me. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

If Mat's claim is true I don't know if I want to vote for him.

Oh really? I'm not sure the claim makes me want to vote him less. A small part of me wants to more. Y'know, for science!

[Ashbringer he/him]

4 minutes ago, Experience said:

I voted on Ash to see what their reaction would be, and there was basically none so that didn't help xD. Ashbringer

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Can't get rid of the spoiler box on mobile. 

I'm pretty sure at least one person who voted me is an elim who then switched to the mat train. If I'm not mistaken, that's everyone that voted on me. 

... see, this is why I need to be less scared of tagging people, because I asked if that meant you were sus of me because you didn't give a reason and you didn't respond so I dropped it 

But I can't exactly be upset because that's exactly what I did to Mat, just did it earlier.

Quartz @Dannnex, remind me to use tags more often.

@JNV - yeah pretty much. I'd like to analyze more, and making little quips helps me stay engaged (along with, you know, voting). But for now I'm not. Might try and ISO Mat once I finish this assignment.

[Kasimir he/him]

3 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

Apologies for the confusion. I was referring to the fact you wanted to chill this game, and then you did some wallposts. The "" was intended to convey that you weren't breaking rules.

rip sorry

i think i had already been expressing concern about the mat situation to elan - i know he said he was chill but /shrug 

so when i was this tired and low on SAN, i just sorta thought u were telling me to not clamp down on him so and went 'oh crap my bad'

yeah i wanted to chill but i feel this is thoroughly going out the window now :|

thanks though for the reminder and apologies that i didn't get it :|

at least...elan gets something to laugh about? maybe?

1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

@Illwei I’m not voting on stick because of what you’ve said. At least not consciously. It’s because I’ve been looking at what she was saying (admittedly, very quickly) and not liking it.

@Kasimir you can obviously take this with a grain of salt, but I’ve been more erratic this game because I’ve been super super busy. I’ve barely been keeping up with the thread. Just trying to get as much content out as I can. And sometimes it’s just a quick vote. 

I get that, but I have to say i feel a bit :| about it in that you usually want to put down even a sliver of reasoning. You've mentioned you do this, sometimes to your own detriment. This is a bit eh.

In any case, if you get some time, be interested to hear some of your whys but I fully get the super busy deal.

1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

Very tired over here so that might be why but I don’t understand the problem.

You went from voting on Illwei (finding her sus) to voting with her, i.e. following her reasoning onto someone she IDed as sus and Illwei (and some Aman) have been the main people behind the Stick push. There's a reasonable question to 'show your working' - why did your thoughts change? Why that shift in view on Illwei/Stick? Did you come by it honestly?

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

... what's with the bold?

Remember that in context I was talking about who I'd be willing to swap to if Mat convinces me.

IMO Exp and Illwei and Archer (the other live trains) were non-starters for me because I am committed to varying degrees to thinking them Village, so it'd be kayana of the highest degree for me to be down for a switch to them.

I sort of like Drake's train negotiations tactic even though I find it a bit chaotic - when he used it on me in the AG, I found myself compelled to ask direct contrastive questions. Did I want you dead that badly? Was I really this neutral about the existing trains? Since I'm currently still very conflicted, I might as well throw it out there and see what Mat and others say if I indicate I am willing to take a third option if persuaded and outline some starters and non-starters for me.

50 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Yeah, but why does my votes and Stick's votes need to be read easier than everything else? Kas is still voting on Mat.

... well that's a claim. Especially because I've got no clue how you'd make a single-use item out of Archer. Cool.

See above.

42 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

That would seem to mesh with Archer's roleclaim if dead players don't have their alignments and/or roles revealed for the cycle when their cells could be harvested. A logical inference from Archer's claimed role even. Thematically a village/neutral role unless the elims aren't all Epics.

Possible. Lots of questions surrounding how that works, though.

Wonder if it functions more like a Lifeless Commander role but unclear.

Why a logical inference?

37 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Mat for obvious reasons of self pres, though I am also open to switching to Striker because his votes have been oddly self-conflicting. In fact Mat’s vote on me despite reading me village apparently also does not make much sense - I let it marinate overnight because the level of desperation seemed to indicate either v!mat with a highly powerful role that would be really useful for us to have, or e!mat. But given this role claim I’m kind of left with the latter now. 3/5 people haven’t given reasons for them voting me and out of the 2/5, devo is exeing me for having a role (? :P). Just feel like it’s painfully obvious something’s off about this train  

EDIT; why do I always forget to green out my votes smh 

Experience

I'd be interested in hearing more about it, but at the same time, he's citing Illwei's reasoning on you.

A lot of people are citing Illwei's reasoning on you, and my main issues with you have really been the fact you don't stick out (lmao) to me for the first part of the cycle, and that I'm still trying to work out your transitivity problem with Mat due to your mindmeld issues.

Is there a third train you would like to persuade me to go on to?

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Why a logical inference?

What Mat claimed is the role I was thinking of to explain why a dead person's alignment wouldn't be revealed immediately.

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

What Mat claimed is the role I was thinking of to explain why a dead person's alignment wouldn't be revealed immediately.

But why alignment? Wouldn't role make more sense? Unless I'm making some mistake, there's no reason to think that a dead Elim Epic is more or less usable than a dead Village Epic?

15 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Oh really? I'm not sure the claim makes me want to vote him less. A small part of me wants to more. Y'know, for science!

?

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

But why alignment? Wouldn't role make more sense? Unless I'm making some mistake, there's no reason to think that a dead Elim Epic is more or less usable than a dead Village Epic?

The role Archer claimed only works so long as alignment is not revealed.

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

The role Archer claimed only works so long as alignment is not revealed.

I know, but my point is that why expect a Scientist-type role? That seems to work only so long - actually, even if role is revealed, it might not be an issue. It's just like a AG7 Forger.

[Amanuensis he/him]

10 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Oh really? I'm not sure the claim makes me want to vote him less. A small part of me wants to more. Y'know, for science!

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

?

 

11 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I'm a Scientist (paraphrased title): When an Epic dies, I can harvest their cells and create a single-use item to pass to someone else. I can't use the items.

On 2/10/2022 at 11:08 AM, Matrim's Dice said:

So I'm the only one who asked a singular question that didn't get PAFO'd? Clearly I'm doing it wrong.

Basically, I'm wondering if this claim matches up with his game intro.

Like, look at this.

10 hours ago, JNV said:

A ton of people posted while I was working on this. Nothing too important except that role claim. Matrim's role implies the existence of items in general and also the ability of Epic roles to be condensed into a neat little item? Or does it mean that you get a random item of a set that is easily itemable from any Epic? If anyone is willing to confirm the existence of items, that could make Matrim's role more plausible. Then again, this might be the only item source. 

@Matrim's Dice can your role be used more than once per dead Epic? If another Scientist also targeted the same dead Epic, would you both get an item? Is there a time limit on dead Epic conversion to item form or can it be used on any corpse no matter how long its been?

JNV came up with a handful of questions regarding Mat's role, while Mat only mustered one. Considering this is a blackout game and that role is not exactly traditional, I find this surprising.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Stick. she/her]

Some thoughts:

Mat:

Quote

“So I'm the only one who asked a singular question that didn't get PAFO'd? Clearly I'm doing it wrong.”

 

I feel like with the role that Mat’s claiming, I’d certainly have more than just a singular question. I am not discounting the possibility that the claim is true - but from my perspective this role can easily be both an E or V role so this should not be a basis for softclearing. 

Mat:

Quote

“Kind of want to call this a Szeth elim tell but he's also had a streak going the past few games so it's more likely just a Szeth tell”

This feels like distancing, potentially.

Exp:

Quote

“Hmm, Archer. Do you have an epic role you want to tell us about? ”

This makes me lean exp/archer not e/e

TUA: 

Quote

“I'm claiming Regular. It was a joke.”

Also I somehow missed this post and was confused about this and no one bothered to let me know?? xD Jeez.

Stick:

Quote

"hmm. i will admit i am confused as to what youre implying. but um also dont elaborate if it gives too much  away”

 

This illwe/exp exchange doesnt seem like e/e to me :

Stink:

Progresses from reading mat neutral to elim/neutral but notably does not cast a vote - imo stink/mat are likely e/e

The fluidity of Thaidakar’s votes seem village (i feel like a first-timer rolling elim would play more cautiously - be a lot more self-conscious) so I’m less suspicious of them now, but I am by no means softclearing them

Will note that Ash’s posts so far have been largely NAI

(ninjad by aman noting the same thing about mat and GM PM questions)

Tani:

what was the point in tagging Szeth? I feel like tani/szeth possibly e/e. I dont recall szeth talking about newbie desperateness like ever, and my reread confirms that. So perhaps they were having doc conversations and it accidentally translated into tani tagging szeth in the thread conversation regarding the same. Might be reading too much into it, now that im typing it out actually Perhaps tani is just being tani. 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Is there a third train you would like to persuade me to go on to?

like i said, I don't mind switching to Striker. I'll think some more about Ash, since I just quickly went through their posts in addition to the thread reread and they come off to me as NAI, which might not be the best thing

Edited February 12, 2022 by _Stick_
misspelled tani

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Progresses from reading mat neutral to elim/neutral but notably does not cast a vote - imo stink/mat are likely e/e

I really don't know if E!Stink would bother ISOing E!Mat when all I asked him for were thoughts (didn't even need to be that in-depth). Frankly, I read that whole ISO and his casual complaint that it wasn't even fun but filled time as extremely pure.

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Kasimir he/him]

I'm taking a deep breath, and trying to put aside all emotion. It's clear that I've not fully - recovered from the AG and a part of me is screaming in absolute refusal at the idea of potentially MLing someone again and bringing back Iguana feelings. I am going to make one last push and to step back because I don't think I can afford to continue this slip into that spiral again. If necessary, I will step back for all of Cycle Two and meditate until I can get a hold of myself and my feelings. If I still can't get over this, I will request a pinch-hitter and to be struck from active player lists until I can get a grip on myself and my guilt because this helps no one. I apologise to everyone for being unable to uphold my commitment and acknowledge I should not have signed up in my current state.

It looks like the two live options for me are going to be Mat or Stick. I guess I could just side-train vote, but it feels like determinedly trying to avoid the issue I don't want to deal with so I don't get to take the easy way out.

I think it's clear that if I allow myself to fixate too much on how this feels, I'm just going to chase my own self into doubt. So that's a nope. Just gotta let it all go.

The main issues against Mat in my view are:

• Handling of Szeth suspicion
• Comparison to Swan
• Thaid
• (Added thanks to Aman's post) - Role issue

I don't know where I stand on the Szeth issue. The symmetry with my attitudes towards Araris is strong. I can't speak for Mat's doxastic states, but I at least was prepared to push or look into Araris a little more as I considered the gut reaction a "Hey, Listen!" moment. I also listed a willingness to go onto Araris end-C1; Szeth was a one-liner. So there's that. 

I accept the point that there's a disanalogy with Swan, but rationally I feel it's a collective problem, which means it's partly self-caused. I agree it might be a lot to ask to both defend yourself and to expand the discussion at the same time given the onslaught, but I still think that there were other candidates on the table, even if they weren't being attacked as prominently, e.g. Stick. I still do think you tend to shade more defensive when Evil, and I still do think you've had Village games where you got attacked and were more chill about it. If I set aside how our current exchange and the emotional white noise in my head makes me feel, then I come back to that.

Thaid. Still feel I was overly-hasty in giving you credit for the Thaid exchange at the very start - bracketing any knowledge of Thaid's alignment, if Thaid is aware you don't want to kill them, then the stab vote loses all pressure and becomes really performative. But I also feel :| about the exchange with Thaid, later on in the cycle. I'm - confused about you feeling triggered by Thaid going onto you because everyone else did. It's an understandable frustration, but it shades close - in contrast with your views on my takes and Aman's - to an Elim going, "I shouldn't be caught out this way." Maybe that's where the whole ML reasons talk brings me back to.

I find Aman's role issue mention persuasive as something that's - odd, I suppose - because I'd forgotten you stated having that singular question, and the moment I saw your role, I too had multiple questions on how this is supposed to work. 

The main issues against Stick in my view are:

• Transitivity problem
• Unremarkable first half of C1

I'm generally - with some asterisks for where I depart but this is a bit too long for an exegesis - of Araris's D1 lynch views. This is specifically relevant because Stick's unremarkable first half of C1 does put her in a particular Elim profile in my head (not quite lurker - prowler?) zone, but that's not quite an argument for lynching her, only an argument for not being particularly invested in saving her. Specifically, it doesn't compare favourably to if I have active reason to go for a player.

My issue with transitivity in light of the mindmeld problem is that I feel like it boils down to a real issue of priority: because the direction of implication here is from Mat to Stick. E!Stick would absolutely be okay with defending V!Mat on the basis of mindmeld and it wouldn't come across as being particularly strange (in fact, the refusal to do so is strange), so the logical direction has to be from Mat to Stick rather than the other way around.

Rationally, I think we need a Stick or Mat lynch today. One way or another, the two trains have outcompeted the others, and I'm by and large currently committed to light V reads (or null+) on competitors, so refusal here is a non-starter. If we don't, we'll likely have to come back to this because we need a flip, one way or another. Bracket the potentially obscured write-ups issue for now. We work with what we've got.

In summation: Striker, hello darkness Mat my old friend.

Final parting shot:

On Stick's views on Thaid, I submit Thaid is either the most committed Elim method actor ever (even Mark and myself didn't commit that hard - you stick out too strongly!), or he's just really genuinely that lost. I challenge anyone to go back over Thaid's posts and go "Yeah, uh, actually Thaid is Elim and his team told him to act that lost" or "Yeah, Thaid's team just left Thaid in the dark like this." My read is very strongly on "very lost new Village player" right now.

Kas out, hopefully to return to you in better condition, with less overcommitment and a completed exam.

Spoiler

 

[Amanuensis he/him]

Matrim's Dice (6): Araris Valerian, Ashbringer, Thaidakar the Ghostblood, _Stick_, JNV, Kasimir
_Stick_ (6): Illwei, Matrim's Dice, StrikerEZ, Tani, Devotary of Spontaneity, Amanuensis
Illwei (1): Archer
Archer (1): Karnatheon

Worth tying for more engagement.

[---]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

I find Aman's role issue mention persuasive as something that's - odd, I suppose - because I'd forgotten you stated having that singular question, and the moment I saw your role, I too had multiple questions on how this is supposed to work. 

 

I definitely interpreted that as him asking multiple questions and recieving a single answer, as opposed to other people recieving no answers.