Mid-Range Game 56: Day of Reckoning

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, |TJ| said:

It would take up an action slot yes. 

How many action slots are there in total.

Still side-eying you Mr GM sir >>

[The Unknown Order he/him]

5 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

It'd be kayana for an elim to make a distinction between Vanilla and Regular when you did. Not exactly a fair deduction considering I was privy to the same nomenclature from the start, but I'm also not going to deny my one absolute trust

That's assuming there aren't vanilla elims. And probably over the line of using GM PM wording, but that's my fault.

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Got it, thanks Elan

As you can infer from my extremely unhappy reaction, there is no mention of me having overcome my weakness and achieved inner peace/Nirvana. I am now exceedingly concerned.

My role actually has - a name. As in, a proper name. It's not something like Knighthawk Scientist which is a job description. It's an actual name. And I've not been very subtle about hinting at it as I dropped a bunch of memes about it C1 even if I didn't say anything and tried to pass myself off as a Regular at first (helped by the fact I legit forgot at some point I was an Epic and just thought of myself as a Rioter.) [Yes, I'm being a bit more circumspect here, but I think if you check the first page of C1, you'll figure the name out, as well as the theme of my ability. I don't really want to explicitly say it as I'm not sure how to paraphrase in this case without messing with the rules, but I figure pointing at the hint can't hurt.]

Also have not been told I have a weakness, much less what it is.

So duplication...I don't know. Thematically it'd be weird to have say, two Amans running around in a game, if you get what I mean. Since it's a proper name. Could there be two reskins of the same power-set? I suspect so, really. TJ's rule clarification was very specific as I asked him what happened if multiple vote manips hit the same target, and he framed his reply to me in terms of multiple Riots and Riot-Soothe interactions. (For the record - no effect, and in the latter case, Rioter still loses own vote.)

Fascinating.

To be fair, such a theory hinges on whether or not Striker was honest about his neutral claim. He could still be lying, and you could still be safe from conversion. But the lack of the kill does suggest it's possible. I'm currently wondering if there's like, just one lonely Corrupted Epic right now who figured using their power to do something other than kill was more useful C1.

Proper name is what I expected. Very neat. Can't wait to see the full role distro at the end.

ED1T:

9 hours ago, The Unknown Aon said:

That's assuming there aren't vanilla elims. And probably over the line of using GM PM wording, but that's my fault.

Well, not exactly.

Cause like, even being "Regular Corrupted Epic" wouldn't necessarily suggest that Village has Regulars too. Plus the fact that Regular Corrupted Epic doesn't make sense compared to something like Corrupted Epic Henchman.

In either case, an elim going out of their way to clarify the distinction about something they don't know is a huge risk if they're wrong.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

To be fair, such a theory hinges on whether or not Striker was honest about his neutral claim. He could still be lying, and you could still be safe from conversion. But the lack of the kill does suggest it's possible. I'm currently wondering if there's like, just one lonely Corrupted Epic right now who figured using their power to do something other than kill was more useful C1.

He says this after scaring me out of ten years of life >:(

Yeah, I know, just gotta take it one cycle at a time anyway. But the main issue I'm having with conversion of any sort is that this is already limited information (well, that and probably the fact I deeply desire there to be no conversion  ) given the delayed lynch flip. It's not unworkable, IMO, but it certainly seems - tricky to juggle for Village because limiting/slowing lynch info on top of conversion usually needs more info roles to balance it. Either mechanic separately in a game would need balance. Two of those together? Damn.

[---]

I'm having a hard time posting right now, reading right now. 

Could it be possible that village Epics can't die unless the Elims know their weakness? Or Perhaps the other way around where the Village has to figure out weaknesses. I don't know, with striker mentioning weaknesses + no kill it's on my mind. 

Personally I think Striker's claim isn't worth thinking about all too much. If I were to think about it then I'd say that him claiming he "overcame his weakness" implies that he's comfortable enough in being...whatever he is, seeing as how Kas claims that there's nothing like that in his PM. For E!Striker to just claim that off the bat means that he'd have to gamble that this bizzare statement is something that shows up in people's PMs, when he has no way of checking that. 

[Ashbringer he/him]

4 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

hi =)

  Reveal hidden contents

“An idea is like a virus, resilient, highly contagious. The smallest seed of an idea can grow. It can grow to define or destroy you.”

Spoiler

 

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

  Hide contents

 

Come on, I just threw the film at you

Are you demanding specificity, Mr Ash? 

[|TJ| he/him]

13 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

How many action slots are there in total.

Under normal circumstances, just the one, sir  

Edit: @Kasimir Not to speak above the IM, [that's not what I'm doing, Spider-im, please pardon me :P], I'd say the wordings rule exists to prevent players from comparing the wordings in the sign-ups to the ones in the GM PM. And since there are no roles in the sign-ups, your reveal will basically just be a claim, a claim that can be true or false, but which cannot be used by other players to discern your alignment or to discard you from belonging to an alignment. Lemme just tag @Elandera too. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by |TJ|

[Ashbringer he/him]

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

Come on, I just threw the film at you

Are you demanding specificity, Mr Ash? 

No, I'm just confused and uncultured and read it as Balrog first 

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, |TJ| said:

Under normal circumstances, just the one, sir  

Thank you, Mr GM sir. What are normal circumstances, and what are abnormal circumstances? >>

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

He says this after scaring me out of ten years of life >:(

Yeah, I know, just gotta take it one cycle at a time anyway. But the main issue I'm having with conversion of any sort is that this is already limited information (well, that and probably the fact I deeply desire there to be no conversion  ) given the delayed lynch flip. It's not unworkable, IMO, but it certainly seems - tricky to juggle for Village because limiting/slowing lynch info on top of conversion usually needs more info roles to balance it. Either mechanic separately in a game would need balance. Two of those together? Damn.

Sorry about that figured it'd be better to warn you now if true, rather than let you get caught by surprise later.

"Events" were mentioned at one point, right? Possible that if conversion is possible, it's balanced around scenarios. Like, only a single Epic will convert after a specific number of turns have passed, or some kind of specific role interaction occurs.

Either way, not worth thinking about too much right now, exe discussion should be a priority.

[Ashbringer he/him]

...I haven't seen that movie... 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Ashbringer

[Kasimir he/him]

8 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Edit: @Kasimir Not to speak above the IM, [that's not what I'm doing, Spider-im, please pardon me :P], I'd say the wordings rule exists to prevent players from comparing the wordings in the sign-ups to the ones in the GM PM. And since there are no roles in the sign-ups, your reveal will basically just be a claim, a claim that can be true or false, but which cannot be used by other players to discern your alignment or to discard you from belonging to an alignment. Lemme just tag @Elandera too. 

Fair enough; I'm just really Lawful enough to want to do this by the book

But also, seeing Ash struggle to try to figure out what my role is despite me throwing Inception memes was kind of funny  As is me trying to figure out how the hell I am going to reconcile Mordred's RP with being Cobb >>

And Inception memes!

4 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Sorry about that figured it'd be better to warn you now if true, rather than let you get caught by surprise later.

"Events" were mentioned at one point, right? Possible that if conversion is possible, it's balanced around scenarios. Like, only a single Epic will convert after a specific number of turns have passed, or some kind of specific role interaction occurs.

Either way, not worth thinking about too much right now, exe discussion should be a priority.

Appreciated, and agreed. Have posted my current thoughts and now that I've finished getting my scare, should sign off to go back to prepping for my exam.

Will do vote analysis when have bandwidth, but may not be able to get to it until after the exam, which is C3.

Edited to add:

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

...I haven't seen that movie... 

I like Tenet a lot, but the philosopher in me loves Inception more and I think it holds up really well a decade later. Given TJ is as much of a Nolan fan as I am, I'm not actually sure he didn't make the reference on purpose  

Edited February 13, 2022 by Kasimir

[|TJ| he/him]

7 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Thank you, Mr GM sir. What are normal circumstances, and what are abnormal circumstances? >>

That would be PAFO territory :P.

Edited February 13, 2022 by |TJ|

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

But also, seeing Ash struggle to try to figure out what my role is despite me throwing Inception memes was kind of funny  As is me trying to figure out how the hell I am going to reconcile Mordred's RP with being Cobb >>

It definitely made me cackle out loud xD

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Appreciated, and agreed. Have posted my current thoughts and now that I've finished getting my scare, should sign off to go back to prepping for my exam.

Will do vote analysis when have bandwidth, but may not be able to get to it until after the exam, which is C3.

Good luck! And thanks for the answers!

I'ma make something to eat and figure out my next plan of attack in the meantime. Blink wants pizza for breakfast.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Ashbringer he/him]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I like Tenet a lot, but the philosopher in me loves Inception more and I think it holds up really well a decade later. Given TJ is as much of a Nolan fan as I am, I'm not actually sure he didn't make the reference on purpose  

I saw Tenet. That one was good. Unfortunately the place I usually see movies lately is on plane rides so I haven't seen many lately... got a lot of old ones to catch up on. And new ones. And plenty in the middle too. I guess Inception's in the middle.

... also if... you're... this just got a whole lot weirder. Less weird than no alignment flip and no kill, but still... weird.

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

... also if... you're... this just got a whole lot weirder. Less weird than no alignment flip and no kill, but still... weird.

Why? It's just a theme. Now that Aman mentioned it, the proper name use does make me wonder if Striker has a specific target (especially given we know there are a bunch of vote manip roles out there), but if he does and it's me, I'd be happy to broker a deal in which I die and he works with the Village. 

Essentially my vote manip abilities are flavoured as inception, or Jedi Mind Trick+ Epic abilities. It's a bit of a reference, is all.

Edited to add:

5 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Good luck! And thanks for the answers!

Thanks! Not for the conversion warning, but the exam luck  

Edited February 13, 2022 by Kasimir

[Ashbringer he/him]

Just now, Kasimir said:

Why? It's just a theme. Now that Aman mentioned it, the proper name use does make me wonder if Striker has a specific target (especially given we know there are a bunch of vote manip roles out there), but if he does and it's me, I'd be happy to broker a deal in which I die and he works with the Village. 

Essentially my vote manip abilities are flavoured as inception, or Jedi Mind Trick+ Epic abilities. It's a bit of a reference, is all.

It is a theme, but I'm wondering how far that theme goes. No mechanical difference (unless things interact weird because of named targets) but it's another layer of just what in the world is going on.

[Elandera she/her]

22 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Under normal circumstances, just the one, sir  

Edit: @Kasimir Not to speak above the IM, [that's not what I'm doing, Spider-im, please pardon me :P], I'd say the wordings rule exists to prevent players from comparing the wordings in the sign-ups to the ones in the GM PM. And since there are no roles in the sign-ups, your reveal will basically just be a claim, a claim that can be true or false, but which cannot be used by other players to discern your alignment or to discard you from belonging to an alignment. Lemme just tag @Elandera too. 

Yeah. This. But exact wording is still banned. 

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

It is a theme, but I'm wondering how far that theme goes. No mechanical difference (unless things interact weird because of named targets) but it's another layer of just what in the world is going on.

Fair, yeah.

Leaving you guys on this note with a final meme:

Spoiler

With all apologies to Axl/Dyring and the M'Hael/Dragonfly  I blame TJ for wanting to be fancy~

[Stick. she/her]

Araris:

1.  RP, tells Thaid the purpose of a vote, joins Ash and Kas on voting Mat: This brings up Mat as the leading exe with 3 votes 

2. Doesn’t appear to have noticed Ash’s vote, thought Mat had only two votes: This confusion seems genuine to me which is NAI, but the fact that he did not retract his vote stands out. 

3. Brings up the possibility of a reverse psychology anti-bus D1 strat. NAI. 

4. Responds to Exp’s vote on him with encouragement, gives three reasons why he should be exed: Don’t know what to make of this - it could be forced nonchalance, but it reads natural. Very slight village for this. 

5, 6. Responds to Mat putting down TJ in his reads list “Yeah, not sure this makes me want to move my vote...”, responds to Kas asking about it saying that it looked insincere. Based on this interaction I think Mat/Araris not e/e

7.  Comments on distros in blackout games: NAI.

8. Tells illwei that everyone deserves to die D1, unvotes Mat and votes Exp as retaliation because Exp’s vote on Araris is ‘pointless’ and because he wants more options for the exe: Note that at this stage, the VC was:

”Matrim's Dice (4): Araris Valerian, Ashbringer, Amanuensis, Thaidakar the Ghostblood

_Stick_ (3): Illwei, Matrim's Dice, Tani

Illwei (2): StrikerEZ, Archer

Experience (2): Kasimir, _Stick_

Araris Valerian (1): Experience

Ashbringer (1): Devotary of Spontaneity

Archer (1): Karnatheon” 

So by switching his vote the way he did, Araris brought it to a three-way tie between myself, Mat, and Exp. Notably, he could have voted illwei to end up with a three-way tie as well but chose Exp, which tells me that Araris/illwei possibly e/e, but Exp/Araris maybe not. 

9, 10, 11. Interaction with Thaid regarding the role of a GM: strongly suggests Araris/Thaid not e/e, though independently NAI on Araris’ part

12. Summarises his posts and thoughts: This one reads to me as pretty villager-like, since there’s zero hedging and it’s all very much succinct, to-the-point. 

13. Clarification on rollover time: NAI

14. Unvotes Exp and switches back to Mat, doesn’t like the train on me, says “my gut has Stick village, which is probably right because odds”: The odds of what? At this point, the VC was:

“_Stick_ (5): Illwei, Matrim's Dice, Tani, Striker, Devotary

Matrim (3): Ashbringer, Amanuensis, Thaidakar the Ghostblood

Experience (2): _Stick_, Araris

Illwei (1): Archer

Ash (1): Experience

Archer (1): Karnatheon

StrikerEZ(1): Kasimir ”

So Araris’ switch brought it to a 5/4, bringing it closer to a tie. @Araris Valerian what are your thoughts on Experience now? At this point, I get the feeling again that Araris/Mat not e/e. This does not take into consideration Araris’ bussing tendencies - I have yet to first-hand experience one of those so idk. But in post 16 Araris unvotes Mat once again and switches to Karn (I feel like if an elim wanted to bus, they wouldnt beat around the bush so much i.e. all the voting and unvoting like I’d like to think it’d be a bit more organised), and comments,

Quote

“Also, just wanted to say, you haven't been tunneling on anyone (Aman seems to have taken that upon himself), and it's nice .”

Which really does not read e/e to me, so my tentative conclusion is that Araris/Mat not e/e. 

15. Clarifying what he meant by the mod voice comment to Kas: NAI

16. See post 14.

D2:

1. Comments on lack of flip: NAI

2. Clarifying the allomancy terms usage: NAI

3. Votes Karn again because vote shenanigans, and this comment stands out “Also, @ Experience, if you are village (or even if you're elim, I suppose), you should probably put some thought in about the other players. Nothing wrong with voting/ISOing me, but you left your vote on me most of last cycle as well, so be wary of tunnel vision.” which I’m unsure what to make of but I keep finding myself rereading it xD

All in all he reads to me a tentative village, but I'd like to revisit upon Mat's flip - it'd be nice if Kas is right and we get the flip results next cycle. And I do not want to think about conversions. xD

Next is devo (or ash), though I probably will do this after a while because I should really not ignore my assignments any longer.

Also I've mostly only skimmed the last three pages of this thread but just let it be known that this post

set off all kinds of alarms in my head and made me do a double take xD. Dannex, you've made four posts and are wondering why people dont have a read on you lol? Sounds like an overly hyperaware Elim.

[Amanuensis he/him]

@_Stick_ oh yeah btw, since you claimed a role, is it Epic flavored or non-epic flavored (like Mat's)?

[Stick. she/her]

2 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

@_Stick_ oh yeah btw, since you claimed a role, is it Epic flavored or non-epic flavored (like Mat's)?

it's definitely an epic but i think it's a made up one cuz I've scoured the entire Reckoners Wiki and havent seen it being mentioned anywhere 

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

it's definitely an epic but i think it's a made up one cuz I've scoured the entire Reckoners Wiki and havent seen it being mentioned anywhere 

Makes sense, given Kas' Inception claim. Fun!

Since you expressed a desire to live and do role stuff last cycle, did you manage to get a first action off? Don't have to be specific, just curious if there was some kind of info gain.

[Stick. she/her]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

Makes sense, given Kas' Inception claim. Fun!

Since you expressed a desire to live and do role stuff last cycle, did you manage to get a first action off? Don't have to be specific, just curious if there was some kind of info gain.

All I'll say is I haven't used it yet and probably shouldn't until I'm absolutely sure of my convictions xD It's got the potential to go horribly wrong or very right.