Mid-Range Game 56: Day of Reckoning

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just in case it was missed due to posts coming in at the same time as my edit:

Quote

Like, at the start, I believed Archer because a Medium role with delayed or limited flips makes sense. Except none of the role limitations he's claimed since make any sense to me unless he had a role like Reviver, which he's conveniently not commented on. That plus the insane amount of role claims we have since gotten makes his look so incredibly weak in comparison. Especially with no apparent redundancy.

And TBH, at this point, I think the elims are deliberately using the nature of a Blackout game to confuse and mislead us. Hence the abnormalities with Archer's claim and Devo's claim both.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Kasimir he/him]

6 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

I say that with love, if it wasn't clear <3 I've embraced the insanity and I'm thriving.

I'm not >:(

1 minute ago, |TJ| said:

Haha, yes ofc  My reply was in jest as well, you can blame me all you want. xD

Damn right I blame you >>

8 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

In before it turns out this is exactly what you're doing

Can't speak for whether Aman's trying to pocket me, but I have every faith that you both can sort each other out if one of you is E

Despite seven+ people telling me I need an Elim game, I must confess it feels nice to possibly beat out Fifth's or TJ's Village streak. Even if I'm a long way away from doing so. Anyone knows the current record?

4 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Quote

And TBH, at this point, I think the elims are deliberately using the nature of a Blackout game to confuse and mislead us. Hence the abnormalities with Archer's claim and Devo's claim both.

 

I wouldn't doubt that. I'd like to hear from Archer, I suppose. And especially Orlok. And everyone else.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Second guessing E!Devo again ugh.

17 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Karnatheon (6): Experience, Kasimir, StrikerEZ, Ashbringer, Tani, Devotary of Spontaneity, Amanuensis
Devotary of Spontaneity (5): Araris Valerian, Karnatheon, Archer, _Stick_, JNV
StrikerEZ (2): STINK, Thaidakar the Ghostblood

Among the Karn voters, who could even be on her team???

ED1T:

...........

.............................

...............................................................

19 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Option Five: Tricksy Tricksy Tricksy

*Inhales*

STRIKERRRRRRR

ED2T:

I swear to Calamity, I'm going to need a whole cabal of therapists after this game for all the mental hoops and loops it's made me jump / run through.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Araris Valerian he/him]

7 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Anyone knows the current record?

Depending on how you count it, mine is 15 (MR10-LG29), assuming that faction games and getting converted to elim don't break the streak. In LG 19, LG 23, and LG 29 I got converted to elim, but I would argue that LG 19 doesn't count, LG 23 didn't have a true village and should count either way. So if we are counting elim conversions as elim games, I probably still have 14.

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Araris Valerian said:

Depending on how you count it, mine is 15 (MR10-LG29), assuming that faction games and getting converted to elim don't break the streak. In LG 19, LG 23, and LG 29 I got converted to elim, but I would argue that LG 19 doesn't count, LG 23 didn't have a true village and should count either way. So if we are counting elim conversions as elim games, I probably still have 14.

I think I've broken your record, minimally. According to my records, I'm on a 19 game streak, so I probably just need to beat TJ/Striker/Fifth, one of whom had 21 before their streak was broken, I think.

If there is a Converter, don't you dare ruin this for me. I'm this damned close to beating the record >:(

8 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

I swear to Calamity, I'm going to need a whole cabal of therapists after this game for all the mental hoops and loops it's made me jump / run through.

Tell me about it.

I really should redo my reads, but I'm still feeling so excessively demoralised by the flip situation.

I could buy that role scans might do it, but at the same time, I also feel as though that's too neat a pattern - Drake and Wyrm always throw in little snags into the symmetry as GMs, and it feels like TJ might share the same MO.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I think I've broken your record, minimally. According to my records, I'm on a 19 game streak, so I probably just need to beat TJ/Striker/Fifth, one of whom had 21 before their streak was broken, I think.

Figures as much. Pretty sure my elim (+SK) streak will stand the test of time though.

Edit: Unless it isn't actually a record, in which case, whoever holds the record will probably always hold it.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Araris Valerian

[Kasimir he/him]

12 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Figures as much. Pretty sure my elim (+SK) streak will stand the test of time though.

You beat Alv, pretty sure you're the current record holder.

I just want to set the Village record streak and dethrone Striker/Fifth/TJ before I have to face my demons and the trauma of uniformly bad Elim team experiences (minus MR3 with Wyrm.) Sometimes a guy gotta aim high.

Turns out Fifth's at 17-18, TJ at 20, so Striker's probably the one with 21.

Edited to add: Turns out Striker has 12, so I just need to dethrone TJ and then I probably have the record.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Kasimir

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

You don't think he's pulling a Meerkat?

Because I'll be honest, that was my first thought when I read it, and I didn't want to give the game away, and I must admit I'm feeling alarmed that you don't seem to be taking that as a possibility as well. Because the timing is sketch and doesn't add up, and neither does the volte-face from Archer's previous post.

This is what I was hinting at when I said I understood how Orlok felt talking to Stick now because it's taking up all my self-control not to point that out.

Oh yeah, question.

Did you ask this because you think V!Archer is baiting a reaction from Thaid? Or because you think E!Archer is pulling a Meerkat to look Villagery?

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Amanuensis said:

Did you ask this because you think V!Archer is baiting a reaction from Thaid? Or because you think E!Archer is pulling a Meerkat to look Villagery?

Meerkat was Village, wasn't he?

But no - I thought he was trying to bait a reaction from Thaid. The timing doesn't add up, and neither does the attitude. The powerset is odd, and so is the context. And who would you do that to if not Thaid? Illwei pulled a similar stunt on Szeth a couple of games before Meerkat. If there's anyone in the playerbase you might expect to actually have a revealing reaction to a claimed scan, it would be the new guy.

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Meerkat was Village, wasn't he?

But no - I thought he was trying to bait a reaction from Thaid. The timing doesn't add up, and neither does the attitude. The powerset is odd, and so is the context. And who would you do that to if not Thaid? Illwei pulled a similar stunt on Szeth a couple of games before Meerkat. If there's anyone in the playerbase you might expect to actually have a revealing reaction to a claimed scan, it would be the new guy.

Ah okay, I understand better now.

I definitely think you're more willing to believe in V!Archer than me the moment I saw that post my already forming tunnel solidified into an actual one.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Amanuensis said:

Ah okay, I understand better now.

I definitely think you're more willing to believe in V!Archer than me the moment I saw that post my already-forming tunnel solidified into an actual one.

With suppressed flips, this does become more interesting though, because we both know what the normal response to a Seek claim is, but does this really apply if you're going to flip black anyway? The payoff for a Seeker gambit here is IMO so much greater because who can prove you wrong?

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

With suppressed flips, this does become more interesting though, because we both know what the normal response to a Seek claim is, but does this really apply if you're going to flip black anyway? The payoff for a Seeker gambit here is IMO so much greater because who can prove you wrong?

Yeah, that's immediately what I figured the plan was. E!Archer buys himself / his team more time / credit by either wasting our time voting a low hanging fruit Villager or busing a low hanging fruit elim. Hence me just wanting to kill them both and be done with it.

TBH even ignoring that, it's this post that gets me.

14 hours ago, Archer said:

Looks like y'all had fun without me, huh.  Not quoting because it's too early in the morning for that stuff. Sorry.

-Kas, Dannex, who I see added another n, very fun, has gone the inactive elim route before, but they're probably not the most catchable elim right now if they are evil, so. 

-I believe Devo is a neutral. Personally I wonder if TJ chose neutrals based on who is running the LG, but more importantly, it makes little sense to claim a kill ability if that's the team's only NK. Also I suspect Devo wouldn't have stood out enough to be noticed C1 if they were evil, unless e!Mat is involved. 

-I'll flag though that Devo's role sounds a little too villagery. The possibility of Illwei being a one woman wrecking ball aside, they can safely assume we'll mix at some point, so if they're being straight with us, they basically just need to play as a villager and solve the game as normal. Confused why they're bothering to scan rather than just shoot suspects, given all the Epic claims. Also wonder whether that implies Elims have a Regular who would avoid being targeted. 

-Devo's Arsonist theory makes sense to me, and I'm surprised Ashbringer got to the possibility of an Arsonist Conversion game before they considered Arson Kills. My first game, the last Reckoners game, was arson NK, but i think it was a different GM. 

-Other possibility is the elims may either NK or conceal the alignments of those who die each cycle. Or do both but they lacked the actions for it and wanted to demoralize or hide an elim death. My role implies alignment flips are possible, so if it's not a setting we need to activate, I think we just need to keep our cool. Although it is fun watching Kas reevaluate his life choices. :P. (Personally, I appreciate TJ deadpan trolling bro, turnabout is fair play.)

-Genuinely have no thoughts on Karn. I didn't feel their vote on me was well thought out, but I wasn't going to kill them for it. Didn't know they were married. Claims be wildin. *screams*

-Speaking of bad votes on me, Thaiiiiiiid? What're you dooooooooing???? Consider yourself my default vote if I don't get around to a proper read through today. If you're a Jester or something, congrats, you're succeeding. 

-Tani coped Stick's powers and Armageddon didn't happen. What's up with that? Let me know if you decide to target me. 

-If anyone's bored/reeling from lack of alignment flips, we've probably got enough claims to try doing theoretical distro guesses. Bonus points if you assume PM items are the only way we're getting those. 

-Kas, I just assumed items existed and went to the Regulars, by the way. Seemed fair. 

-Next person who claims neutral is evil. 

WE STILL HAVE NO ALIGNMENT FLIP? WHERE'S THE MAT INFO???

ED1T:

All caps not meant to express anger, but confusion. I'm just really heckin confused. Please no one take offense <3 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

12 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

I had a slightly terrifying thought. Devo… does your hunter have a name? Do NOT tell me what, but do they?

Honestly... I'm not sure if Devo's scan only reveals Epic vs not Epic or more about them, but maybe scan Archer unless we decide to stab him. Having our resident Neutral Killing know about Archer's full capabilities is just fine by me.

Yes.

I only learn Epic or not an Epic, not what they can do, and a role like Mat's would show up as non-Epic.

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

If it were a specific mechanic, what sort do you think it is?

@Devotary of Spontaneity - Interested in whether you'd consider scanning TUA, under my Padan Fain hypothesis. But I'm starting to think that if we hypothesise the kill gives alignment info, then maybe we should request Devo doubletaps the lynch.

Yes, but when you're designing the role as the GM, you don't think about balance or win con achievability by looking at the player. In such a target rich environment, if you hadn't attracted that D1 attention, it feels like you'd have had a substantially easy time fulfilling your wincon.

Honestly you almost sound like an SK.

Yeah, if the theory is correct, then it was the other way around in LG7. Kills obscured, but the lynch was the only method of death that revealed alignment. I'm curious - could you try asking TJ if your kill reveals alignment? I suspect you'd get PAFOed but my theory is that if you do get PAFOed, the Elim team probably would've too.

If you really need to kill a Village Epic and aren't sure if you hit your quota later on, I volunteer because I'm kind of done with being useless this game lol.

If it's not just a complete wash, then maybe no flips on an exe, no flips until cycle X, or Y event (GM decided, elims kill someone, etc.) happens.

I can scan TUA if you think there aren't any regulars. I don't have infinite kills but I can get at least one more.

I'm not giving you all the details but I need to kill Epics and want the village to win as well.

TJ PAFO'd whether my kill or the elim kill would reveal alignment.

I doubt that would be necessary.

7 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

1 vote lost on Karn
No vote lost or gained on Devo
@Kasimir's riot failed, so his vote shouldn't have canceled

Wut???

@Devotary of Spontaneity if your win con is to kill 1 Village Epic and 1 Elim Epic and the exe counts for it, did you get told Karn's alignment so you know what half of your win con you still need to do?

Karnatheon was a Rioter, so presumably move a vote from them to me, cancelling their own vote in the process. That adds up with the vote count, one vote on Karnatheon removed, Karnatheon's vote on me removed and replaced with someone who was voting on them.

Absolutely not.

4 hours ago, Archer said:

-I'll flag though that Devo's role sounds a little too villagery. The possibility of Illwei being a one woman wrecking ball aside, they can safely assume we'll mix at some point, so if they're being straight with us, they basically just need to play as a villager and solve the game as normal. Confused why they're bothering to scan rather than just shoot suspects, given all the Epic claims. Also wonder whether that implies Elims have a Regular who would avoid being targeted.

-Other possibility is the elims may either NK or conceal the alignments of those who die each cycle. Or do both but they lacked the actions for it and wanted to demoralize or hide an elim death. My role implies alignment flips are possible, so if it's not a setting we need to activate, I think we just need to keep our cool. Although it is fun watching Kas reevaluate his life choices. :P. (Personally, I appreciate TJ deadpan trolling bro, turnabout is fair play.)

I could just kill any Epic that moved since there's so many of them that most of them have to be village. I have a scan because I only have a limited number of shots, not enough to kill someone every cycle.

Do you think obscurement would then be a role or an action that any elim can choose to take?

4 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

I'm yet to read the end of D1 and most of D2 (unashamedly just poorly motivated), but I'm increasingly inclined to vote for Devotary. We have a known night kill, and plenty of claimed village epics. I'm normally a real advocate for compromise with neutrals, but I think Devotary is incentivised to do real damage to the village - the completion of their win condition isn't something we need to allow if it has a material impact on our own.

Most of what I can do is vote. I'm not going to vote for someone who isn't an Epic, but there seem to be few of those and otherwise I'm incentivized to vote on the person who's getting exed anyway, which is something the village theorectically controls. Kill-wise it's against my interests to shoot trusted villagers when I can be exed at any time, so I'll generally be going for players that could plausibly be evil. Probably I will end up killing more villagers than elims like anyone else simply by virtue of number disparity.

3 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Considering we've been told that players cannot submit more than one action ("under most circumstances") and the fact you haven't mentioned your results from talking with Mat, I take it you didn't. So why bother making a show of @ing him in thread?

Honestly, not wholly. But I also have lost any motivation to push her because of two posts she's made that give me big 'I'm angry' vibes, and frankly don't want to be a part of it anymore.

The reason I put my vote on Karn at the end of the D2 chaos was to see if two kills would happen. The fact that a second didn't leads me to believe that it's the same kill and it was her last-ditch effort to stay alive. The alternative is the elims are deliberately neglecting their kill to make us waste time, but that would imply a team with a high risk appetite + D2 EoD presence to witness Devotary's role claim.

TBH I'm kinda done wondering if it's a conversion game at this point. Also not entertaining anything like an arsonist. The game rules clearly state "informed minority" and "one faction kill per cycle" which can still work for a conversion game, but that just points back to Devo. C1 she converts someone. C2 she converts someone else and the first convert submits the kill to verify her claim. But again, the 'I'm angry' vibes = me not wanting to push her anymore if she's honest, and I respect Devo enough to assume she wouldn't do that as an elim just to buy time.

So where's that leave me? Standard game, starting team of Corrupted Epics.

I'm more confident in E!Karn than E!Mat, though both could still work. I have trouble reconciling his info vote on Archer with him being an Epic. Archer claimed a role from the start that offered information and warned us that we'd be denied information from flips. Only an elim would want to deny the village long-term information, though it's possible he just didn't think about the repercussions. I say more confident because there's still a chance he was Village, which I'm willing to believe, but I could see him being E/E with Archer too and using that vote for distancing, as he would be aware of Archer's plan from the get-go.

I really want to hear about @StrikerEZ's win con. If we are going to work with him, we need all his cards on the table. The reason I want to know is because it might help us infer whether or not Devo's being honest about hers.

ED1T:

Honestly, I'd rather you shoot Thaid. Don't think a Thaid exe is a productive use of our time given he's apparently been "Seeked." Whether or not Archer is busing or wasting the Village's time more or honest, it has to be resolved.

ED2T:

Oh, and if there's an elim targeted Janitor esque role that hides alignments, it's 100% STINK. But that's assuming the elims don't have a role that generally hides alignments until their own death. Maybe a team of Karn/Archer/STINK/???. Still want to V lean STINK for his unsolicited Mat ISO, but if there's a Janitor, it's absolutely him based on EoD activity.

ED3T:

Okay so, E!Archer world. He probably doesn't have the generally-hiding-alignments role (Vexcave) if that's what's going on. The fact he referred to himself as an over-glorified vanilla is probably honest. He likely made the reveal so that in the event he was killed, we'd still be lost and the elims lose almost nothing, versus the actual alignment hider outing themself. Still think he needs to die today regardless.

One explanation. is that he didn't bother submitting an action to talk to Karn. Another is that Archer's ability to speak to the dead is a passive, but that implies he has an active part of his role, like obscuring alignments for instance. Or he could just be lying about his role altogether, which suggests that he knows a teammate with the ability to hide alignments.

I'm not supposed to be doing that. There's new rules about not using emotion to convince people of your alignment. I will try to keep that out of future posts.

Will get to rest of posts later.

[Kasimir he/him]

7 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

One explanation. is that he didn't bother submitting an action to talk to Karn. Another is that Archer's ability to speak to the dead is a passive, but that implies he has an active part of his role, like obscuring alignments for instance. Or he could just be lying about his role altogether, which suggests that he knows a teammate with the ability to hide alignments.

Think you mean talk to Mat? If Karn just died, I doubt he could talk to Karn until this cycle.

7 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

I'm not supposed to be doing that. There's new rules about not using emotion to convince people of your alignment. I will try to keep that out of future posts.

Wasn't the rule about not tying it to your arguments? From my read of your posts, it was a ride-along, rather than part of the argument.

Edited to add:

Me waiting to know who Illwei hit C1 and what Mat said:

Spoiler

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Kasimir

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

Think you mean talk to Mat? If Karn just died, I doubt he could talk to Karn until this cycle.

Archer said he did talk to Mat, and further implied that the questions had been submitted. If the talking to the dead does require an action, I assume it's submit an action C1 to talk to e.g. the C1 exe target, or a random person who died, which means he could have asked Karn questions C2. If it's passive then he could definitely ask Karn questions C2 and use an item. A passive role doesn't necessarily have to include an active part which would explain the basically vanilla claim, but it definitely could since Stick appears to have an active and passive part of her role.

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Karnatheon was a Rioter, so presumably move a vote from them to me, cancelling their own vote in the process. That adds up with the vote count, one vote on Karnatheon removed, Karnatheon's vote on me removed and replaced with someone who was voting on them.

Yeah I realized that not too long ago actually (and edited a strikethrough / clarification)  I've been rereading the past few pages for a couple hours now, trying to make sense of this mess that TJ has left us.

9 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Absolutely not.

RIP

9 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

I'm not supposed to be doing that. There's new rules about not using emotion to convince people of your alignment. I will try to keep that out of future posts.

You probably don't need to worry about it, I just don't want to upset anyone I hope you know I don't mean to attack you, if you've perceived it that way.

 

Annnnnnnnnd I'm back to thinking N!Devo E!Karn RIP

ED1T:

Also, just realized something. @Tani does your role say you only steal Epic powers? Because I just remembered that Devo is claiming Non-Epic Epic Hunter, which means it wouldn't even work anyway.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

5 hours ago, Archer said:

The secret is not having time to worry.

Interesting approach. I can understand wanting to kill them if you suspect they're lying, but I didn't mind the possibility of a few extra kills going around, if only because people having their lies about their roles revealed is probably going to be our most reliable alignment flip. Speaking of which. 

*

 

@Thaidakar the Ghostblood you had a good run. But I scanned you yesterday with my Villager Alignment Scanner item and you tested negative. So are you a neutral or are you an elim? Thaid

wait really? that is weird. I am a village epic.

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Archer said he did talk to Mat, and further implied that the questions had been submitted. If the talking to the dead does require an action, I assume it's submit an action C1 to talk to e.g. the C1 exe target, or a random person who died, which means he could have asked Karn questions C2. If it's passive then he could definitely ask Karn questions C2 and use an item. A passive role doesn't necessarily have to include an active part which would explain the basically vanilla claim, but it definitely could since Stick appears to have an active and passive part of her role.

But that's just an odd ability to have. What happens if you don't predict the exe target right? What happens if there's suddenly a last minute swing? I haven't seen where Archer said he talked to Mat - could you narrow it down for me? I'm going to go back and look, but as far as I can tell, he said he was submitting questions. If he could talk directly to Mat, he wouldn't have needed to do that weird communication/instructions in the thread thing.

Point about the active and passive, but that's just odd - I think most of us don't have passives. I certainly don't.

P.S. As much as Illwei says you're emotionless, just feel like you're entitled to feel them and sometimes they do leak into posts. It's a problem when you weaponise them, but otherwise we're all human. Just the 2p from the resident moody heart-on-sleeve guy.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

4 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

You probably don't need to worry about it, I just don't want to upset anyone I hope you know I don't mean to attack you, if you've perceived it that way.

You should be calling that out because even though I am annoyed to be voted on, I shouldn't be expressing that in a way that suggests something about my alignment. Although as you've mentioned those feelings could be real as a neutral or as an elim/converter.

[Kasimir he/him]

10 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Also, just realized something. @Tani does your role say you only steal Epic powers? Because I just remembered that Devo is claiming Non-Epic Epic Hunter, which means it wouldn't even work anyway.

 

[Amanuensis he/him]

Honestly all these insane tangents aside, we need to kill Archer today regardless.

The fact remains that he is the only player claiming a role that suggests alignment flips can eventually happen, and until he dies and said role is presented in the next write-up, we have no idea if we can trust him or where we go from here.

If he's been honest with us, we'll all know beyond the shadow of a doubt that we can turn alignment flips back on. And tbh, losing his role doesn't seem like a big loss.

If he's lying, then we caught an elim and can begin narrowing things down further.

Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer. Archer.

In case it wasn't clear who I think needs to die >>

Edited February 15, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

7 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

But that's just an odd ability to have. What happens if you don't predict the exe target right? What happens if there's suddenly a last minute swing? I haven't seen where Archer said he talked to Mat - could you narrow it down for me? I'm going to go back and look, but as far as I can tell, he said he was submitting questions. If he could talk directly to Mat, he wouldn't have needed to do that weird communication/instructions in the thread thing.

Thinking that he could just say 'the exe target' and not have to specify who it was. Archer saying 'it only works on one person' when 'pick one' was one of the options is making me lean towards passive and possibly random. And Archer said he just had to submit three questions without mentioning an action so that's another point towards passive.

Quote

If you're village, @Matrim's Dice if you're allowed to selectively provide no response, could you please give no answer to the first question you would otherwise answer no to? And please answer yes to question three if you're capable of lying. 

This part is where it looks like Archer talked to Mat. If the questions were an action that were submitted C2 and wouldn't reach Mat until C3 I don't think Archer would have said this, especially if he was then going to cancel his action and use a scanning item instead. Questions submitted for free C2 that Mat has the cycle to answer and would then get back to Archer at the beginning of C3 is more plausible for telling-the-truth!Archer.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

What is the vote count guys? I cannot keep track.

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Thinking that he could just say 'the exe target' and not have to specify who it was. Archer saying 'it only works on one person' when 'pick one' was one of the options is making me lean towards passive and possibly random. And Archer said he just had to submit three questions without mentioning an action so that's another point towards passive.

That's very vague though. And a weird exception to make for targeting - I don't think any other role or ability in normal SE lets you do that. Would definitely like clarity on whether it's an active or a passive.

1 minute ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

This part is where it looks like Archer talked to Mat. If the questions were an action that were submitted C2 and wouldn't reach Mat until C3 I don't think Archer would have said this, especially if he was then going to cancel his action and use a scanning item instead. Questions submitted for free C2 that Mat has the cycle to answer and would then get back to Archer at the beginning of C3 is more plausible for telling-the-truth!Archer.

I saw that, but that's not the same as talking to Mat, is it? Or maybe we're crossing wires - I do think he did establish contact, but I also suspect that the thread thing indicates he's not allowed to directly talk to Mat. Because if he were, why post all these instructions in the thread? In the dead/limbo doc would do nicely.

The scanning item is just weird. @Araris Valerian Is your Soothe a power or a one-shot item? 

Because something that detects Village or Not-Village is a very odd breakdown, on top of everything else, including Archer's D1 insistence that items exist from Mat's role when the closest thing we saw was mention of the Motivators.

Bah. I'm honestly getting a legit bad feeling about everything right now. My vote can chill on Thaid for the moment.

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Thinking that he could just say 'the exe target' and not have to specify who it was. Archer saying 'it only works on one person' when 'pick one' was one of the options is making me lean towards passive and possibly random. And Archer said he just had to submit three questions without mentioning an action so that's another point towards passive.

This part is where it looks like Archer talked to Mat. If the questions were an action that were submitted C2 and wouldn't reach Mat until C3 I don't think Archer would have said this, especially if he was then going to cancel his action and use a scanning item instead. Questions submitted for free C2 that Mat has the cycle to answer and would then get back to Archer at the beginning of C3 is more plausible for telling-the-truth!Archer.

I think my biggest hang up with his role is, well, why does it exist at all?

If the answers have to be honest, and that's meant to be our way of finding out which of the dead are Villagers and which are Elims, where is the redundancy? Why is there no one else with this weirdly specific yet critical role? What happens if he got NK'd D1 and the Village lost it's only effective alignment scanner? Why not just have a reveal-dead-alignment role?

If the answers can include lies, what's the point at all? Elims are going to lie when they die just as they'd lie while they're alive.

I just don't get it.