Mid-Range Game 56: Day of Reckoning

[Quivil she/her]

10 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

... care to share with the class? 

Jk, you don't have to. Actually maybe you shouldn't. Idk. Up to you.

I haven't gotten an answer yet. I think TJ's asleep. (If you're sleeping, good job, TJ! Sleep is more important than SE.)

[Amanuensis he/him]

I've slept. I've ruminated. And the tunnel has only grown deeper and darker. Unlike Mat tho, I have zero doubts about Archer.

C1 someone dies, C2 he asks questions, C3 he recieves the answers and can act on said information.

Same with C2 to C3 to C4, etc, etc.

In even a normal game of SE, I would be calling this out too. Look at every role claim we have gotten that has or can be verified. They all have immediate benefits and provide more information than anything 3 yes no questions to the dead that can be ignored or answered with lies. Best case scenario where a role like this doesn't get exed or NK'd, they get a revive off the first night kill on C4. There's just too many variables for my tastes.

We got Rioters, a Lookout, an Action Mimic, an Action Stealer, an Action Redirector, a Action Swapper, an Action Gifter (apparently), etc etc.

I don't care about entertaining the possibility of this anymore. It's just not plausible. Archer's role and literally every other role claim we have received just do not exist in the same game. I just can't see it. Even the neutral claims we got make more sense than this.

I am the king of fictional role claims. It is one of the staples of my gameplay from either alignment, when the need arises. And I really don't think this is legit.

 

I need coffee.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Quivil she/her]

I have no specific reason for this, it's mostly just all the stuff that's happened about him and that's been said by him so far.\

Archer

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Anyone have the vote count? I need to see it so that I can estimate how many people hopped on the different vote trains.

[---]

Archer were you claiming a one-shot ability of some sort as well?

[Ashbringer he/him]

^ I'll add Stick to this question as well, and also urge Tani to ask TJ what happens if you copy a one-use power.

[JNV]

Hi! Sorry for not being on yesterday. I had a concert and it ran late. 

So there are a lot more roles than I expected. I'm a Regular. Don't know how much that will help, but hopefully it does something.

I've played a no flips mafia game once with a few friends on Discord. It devolved into a festering pit of paranoia and basically a free for all after a few cycles. I don't really know how to play games where I can't draw conclusions.

People I kind of want dead:

-Archer. I didn't really think the initial reasons were too significant, but Archer's repsonse seemed really fishy. Like they're buying time or something. And the gambit? What? Probably where my vote is going.

-Thaidakar. I know they seem TWTBAW but... A lot of it can be handwaved with new player syndrome but still. I can see them being an elim if the elims don't get to know each other's identities, if the elims don't get to talk privately, or if they're a solo elim. The last option seems unlikely because I don't think TJ would do that to a new player, but its not impossible. If they do have a team they know and can talk to, I can't see a world where the elims let Thaidakar stumble around blind.

-Devotary. I... honestly can't remember why I wanted them dead. This is either a sign that I have not been focused lately or a sign that maybe the reasoning was bad.

Archer for general suspicion, oddity, and confusion. I'll look into things, but I don't know if I have much time

[---]

I feel pretty solidly that JNV is an Elim for pretty non existant reasons. I don't like the getting on and instant jump on Archer. I would definitely expect someone catching up for the first time to be wary of a train this large already formed train on Archer. Similar to how I was.

[Amanuensis he/him]

6 minutes ago, JNV said:

Hi! Sorry for not being on yesterday. I had a concert and it ran late. 

So there are a lot more roles than I expected. I'm a Regular. Don't know how much that will help, but hopefully it does something.

I've played a no flips mafia game once with a few friends on Discord. It devolved into a festering pit of paranoia and basically a free for all after a few cycles. I don't really know how to play games where I can't draw conclusions.

People I kind of want dead:

-Archer. I didn't really think the initial reasons were too significant, but Archer's repsonse seemed really fishy. Like they're buying time or something. And the gambit? What? Probably where my vote is going.

-Thaidakar. I know they seem TWTBAW but... A lot of it can be handwaved with new player syndrome but still. I can see them being an elim if the elims don't get to know each other's identities, if the elims don't get to talk privately, or if they're a solo elim. The last option seems unlikely because I don't think TJ would do that to a new player, but its not impossible. If they do have a team they know and can talk to, I can't see a world where the elims let Thaidakar stumble around blind.

-Devotary. I... honestly can't remember why I wanted them dead. This is either a sign that I have not been focused lately or a sign that maybe the reasoning was bad.

Archer for general suspicion, oddity, and confusion. I'll look into things, but I don't know if I have much time

You're either Village (99% chance imo) or you just pocketed me (). In either case, good work!

Don't worry about not being around, real life do be real lifing. Sorry for making your job of catching up harder 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

was my last vote archer or striker? I thought it was striker so ima vote archer instead, anyone feel free to correct me if I was already voting archer.

[Amanuensis he/him]

@Kasimir How likely would you say E!Archer would vote for E!Mat on D1?

[Kasimir he/him]

8 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

@Kasimir How likely would you say E!Archer would vote for E!Mat on D1?

Need to look it up. Might want to ask survivors of MR55 as well but off the top of my head, I played E Archer in MR52 and GMed him in QF54, but he never voted that game.

[Archer he/him]

Alright, I see where this is headed. 

I'm convinced Aman is evil. Ashbringer and Orlock are my second tier. Then it's pretty much everyone else voting for me. Illwei seems trustworthy. Kas I'm hoping is playing the long game and will Riot away his vote, but if he doesn't, check back on them at some point. Experience is village, but I forget why. 

1 hour ago, Illwei said:

Archer were you claiming a one-shot ability of some sort as well?

Yup. I can resurrect one person. That's it, that's the big reveal. Sorry if it doesn't match what you were expecting, I don't actually have control over the distribution of the game. 

 

[---]

I honestly believe that Archer definitely shouldn't die here.

I acknowledge that I don't make great arguments. I'm not good with words.

just my two cents.

someone can say "I told you so" in the aftermath if archer is an Elim or something. but /shrug.

[StrikerEZ he/him]

Hmmm

I might be off about this because I’m a neutral.

But I think Archer is telling the truth.

Edited February 16, 2022 by StrikerEZ
Spelling error

[Amanuensis he/him]

I was willing to believe Reviver when we thought alignments were delayed by a single turn. It even made sense with the whole limited question thing to an extent, since there's that risk / reward factor in not knowing if you are bringing a good guy or a bad guy yet. I even called the possibility on C2 because I worked it out logically. And the reason why I heelturned today is for one simple reason. 

The black alignment flips have not gone away. The only indiciation that we can get alignment flips back is Archer himself.

And frankly, the dead should stay dead.

I don't mess with zombies.

ED1T:

Illwei plz stop open wolfing or fake open wolfing.

This is a very elim-about-to-die progression and you know it.

- Keep role as vague and non-threatening as possible for as long as possible

- Trickle out more details as pressure mounts until it looks like people no longer trust you

- If death seems guaranteed, claim some role that Villagers would be desperate to keep

- Vote or accuse every player that does not buy your RC

ED2T:

The second Archer started by voting me, it was as good as a guarantee.

ED3T:

@Devotary of Spontaneity if you're looking to exe an elim epic, this is probably your man. Do you know if you achieve your win con of killing 1 V and 1 E Epic, it will be told in your PM? If so it would guarantee the village is on the right track.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Amanuensis

[---]

I'm too impressed by the correct usage of "openwolfing" in this scenario to be offended you consider him so outed that I come off as open wolfing to you :P.

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I'm too impressed by the correct usage of "openwolfing" in this scenario to be offended you consider him so outed that I come off as open wolfing to you :P.

Tbh I have almost no idea how to read you but as an openwolf today. Don't even get me started on deliberately nullifying Kas' riot "for fun" smh

Edited February 16, 2022 by Amanuensis

[---]

2 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Tbh I have almost no idea how to read you but as an openwolf today. Don't even get me started on deliberately nullifying Kas' riot "for fun" smh

Openwolfing is NAI, remember that.

Rioting doesn't matter when the wagons are bad

And we get negative information today with how things are playing out. Archer flips and yall just continue to assume he's an Elim when it doesn't fully make sense.

EDIT:

The only point of reasoning I'm willing to listen to in regards to Archer is him being an Elim showing TMI about the whole "Elim kill or Elims can block flips"

Edited February 16, 2022 by Illwei

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

22 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

if you're looking to exe an elim epic, this is probably your man. Do you know if you achieve your win con of killing 1 V and 1 E Epic, it will be told in your PM? If so it would guarantee the village is on the right track.

I don't get progress updates like that. Still willing to vote for Archer though.

[Amanuensis he/him]

17 hours ago, Illwei said:

Openwolfing is NAI, remember that.

Rioting doesn't matter when the wagons are bad

And we get negative information today with how things are playing out. Archer flips and yall just continue to assume he's an Elim when it doesn't fully make sense.

I thought you were a mafia god smh, how can you have so many bad takes and not be a wolf frfr

Who said yesterday's wagons were bad? You? Why weren't you there during the cycle to make a good wagon then?

What negative information do we get?

He is not flipping a role that speaks with the dead or can revive them. It does not exist in the game. The second that is proven we know every little detail he's told us was meant to keep us from doing anything productive.

Period.

End of story.

Will eat every player in this game's hat if I'm wrong.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Ashbringer he/him]

Okay I think this is an example of when people need to chill a bit. I've made my side clear but this is a bit too much.

Illwei, do you have an idea on how to get exe alignment flips into the game? Do you think there's a Janitor/pseudo-Janitor we need to kill? Do we just need to wait it out? If it was your call, what would you do?

Aman, I like my hat.

Edit: hi... Maill? Huh. Hello!

Edited February 16, 2022 by Ashbringer

[Amanuensis he/him]

17 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Okay I think this is an example of when people need to chill a bit. I've made my side clear but this is a bit too much.

Illwei, do you have an idea on how to get exe alignment flips into the game? Do you think there's a Janitor/pseudo-Janitor we need to kill? Do we just need to wait it out? If it was your call, what would you do?

Aman, I like my hat.

Sorry, I'm kind of a tonal mimic =\ adapt to who I'm talking with.

Was trying to speak to Illwei in her own language, I guess.

Won't happen again.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Amanuensis

[---]

2 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Will eat every player in this game's hat if I'm wrong.

I don't have a hat and I'm not offering my scarf for you to eat :P.

Unironically calling me bad is only a thing Elims have ever done, so thanks for outing yourself like that :P.

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

Illwei, do you have an idea on how to get exe alignment flips into the game? Do you think there's a Janitor/pseudo-Janitor we need to kill? Do we just need to wait it out? If it was your call, what would you do?

I don't know who started the theory that Elims could either NK or obscure the flip. If it was archer then I have more questions there, because he referenced it as if it wasn't him who first voiced the theory :P. but if it's the case then, well, I don't know, but that tells us something regardless.

Either way, again. my role PM implies that I flip with an alignment, and TJ has said that there are alignment flips in the game. If it's not a villager coming forward with a role then I have to assume it's something that either has to be roleblocked or something that is only applicable under certain circumstances.

[Amanuensis he/him]

7 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Unironically calling me bad is only a thing Elims have ever done, so thanks for outing yourself like that :P.

Not calling you bad I'm just saying I'm better. Hyperconfidence ftw.

For the record I'm only engaging with you (and not engaging with Archer directly at all) because I'm open to you being a Villager and flat up refuse to believe Archer is one at all.

But even if he is, it's a positive information gain for the Village. A few of us have spiraled in a dozen different directions trying to make sense of how this game is meant to work. From the beginning, Archer is the only player that has claimed a role that directly engages with the lack of alignment flips.

This means the lack of alignment flips is elim TMI, the existence of village epics is elim tmi, and he used both of that information to trick people like you into believing he's one of us. I am too much a skeptic for that. Especially after 70% of the players have role claimed by the end of D2.

We need to know, right now, whether anything Archer has said about the flips is true. If we don't we are going to continue killing each other mindlessly until we lose.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Amanuensis