I'm reading The Stormlight Archive for the first time

[KaladinWorldsinger]

On 7/15/2023 at 6:05 AM, Amira said:

And next we're going back to Shallan, why? I want to keep hearing about Kaladin!

Oof, that's a common sentiment

[The Sibling she/her]

On 7/14/2023 at 8:35 PM, Amira said:

Kaladin is starting to make friends with the parshmen after realizing they're not evil voidbringers.

Yeah. I really liked this part. I just don't like how many people were so immediately against the awakening of the parshmen, considering that even if their 'gods" are evil, they are just newly freed slaves who can think for the first time in their lives.

On 7/14/2023 at 8:35 PM, Amira said:

And next we're going back to Shallan, why? I want to keep hearing about Kaladin!

Yeah. This is how I feel for that entire storming book. I think a lot of people feel the same. 

I've never really looked at this thread before. It's super fun too read all of your theories and thoughts. Thanks for doing this!

[Amira]

On 7/16/2023 at 1:15 PM, The Sibling said:

I've never really looked at this thread before. It's super fun too read all of your theories and thoughts. Thanks for doing this!

Thank you, and you're welcome!

SA3 chapter 18: What the what?? Okay, I don't think the murderers are hypnotized to murder another person in the same manner without remembering they did it, because if this were the case, the corpses wouldn't end up so precisely the same. So either each set of two corpses are actually the same person transformed via Lightweaving or some other method to look like someone else, or the second person in each case is somehow magically killed in the same manner, like a duplication of the murder? Gosh, it's so bizarre. Now I really want to hear more about this; why do we have to go back to Dalinar's past?
But let's backtrack. Shallan is starting to lose it, trying to bury her trauma under illusions. Meanwhile, I didn't really understand the thing with the hard drinks. She tells Pattern that her goal wasn't to get drunk, and that 'it's complicated', but it seemed at the beginning that her goal was to experience being under the influence so she could fake it at a later time. If this was indeed her goal, why would she tell Pattern 'it's complicated'? Finally, do surgebinders feel less pain? I know they can heal themselves, but stabbing yourself through the hand is hard to do, and then not scream or even react is also hard to do. Both are near impossible, and Shallan does them casually. I mean, it would make sense if they don't feel as much pain, since they don't need to, with their ability to heal.

[Treamayne]

23 minutes ago, Amira said:

 So either each set of two corpses are actually the same person transformed via Lightweaving or some other method to look like someone else, or the second person in each case is somehow magically killed in the same manner, like a duplication of the murder? Gosh, it's so bizarre.

Yes, bizarre.

23 minutes ago, Amira said:

But let's backtrack. Shallan is starting to lose it, trying to bury her trauma under illusions. Meanwhile, I didn't really understand the thing with the hard drinks. She tells Pattern that her goal wasn't to get drunk, and that 'it's complicated', but it seemed at the beginning that her goal was to experience being under the influence so she could fake it at a later time. If this was indeed her goal, why would she tell Pattern 'it's complicated'?

I took this to mean that she "beleived" tough people drink harder liquor - so she was trying that "for her cover" without realizing how quickly it might affect her (I'm guessing she hasn't had much experience drinking - only what and how much she saw her Father consume). So, in my opinion, her "goal" wasn't to get drunk, but to experience what she thought Veil should now so she can "blend." The complicated part was he underestimating her reactions (much like teens having their first alcohol experience) and the effects she would feel.

Note: "Wine' is like "chicken" - it's a catch-all term because that region of Roshar doesn't have vocabulary for the myriad methods of fermentation and distillation - nothing you've seen so far would actually be called a wine to us (the readers). WoBs (editied out spoilers)

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner #1

On Roshar, all the alcohol on Roshar is called wine.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep.

Questioner #1

Some of it is different from what we have on Earth...

Brandon Sanderson

Yep. All of it, actually. Well, not all of it--there's some actual Shin wine that you would call wine.A lot of what you're seeing we would just call spirits or liqueurs here. They do have some grain based things and stuff like that. They're not making beer, they're mostly making spirits.

This whole linguistic thing is one of those little clues that I embedded for certain reasons that we won't go into. The reason they call everything wine, the reason that seasons... they call seasons and we're like, "Wait! Those aren't seasons!", and things like that... *with some audience nudging* Chickens is the other big one. This is all there for a specific reason, but the further we get and the better help I get from beta readers... thank the beta readers for the scenes in Oathbringer, where a certain character is getting drunk--they helped me a lot on that.

Questioner #1

So, distilled or brewed?

Brandon Sanderson

Distilled, mostly distilled.

There's actually a picture about this later in Oathbringer, if you are reading the physical or ebook version. Also here if you want to see it without the surrounding chapter information.

41 minutes ago, Amira said:

Finally, do surgebinders feel less pain? I know they can heal themselves, but stabbing yourself through the hand is hard to do, and then not scream or even react is also hard to do. Both are near impossible, and Shallan does them casually. I mean, it would make sense if they don't feel as much pain, since they don't need to, with their ability to heal.

We've seen other surgebinders feel pain - I took this as partly her "ability" to dissociate and partly a likely learned response-suppression based on her backstory. Note that back in Way of Kings she also did not yell out when she tried to cut herself to cover the soulcasting - and accidentally cut too deep. Some abuse victims can learn to suppress pain-vocalizations or other reactions - situation dependant of course. Of course, knowing it will heal probably helps to suppress the reactions.

 

[alder24]

8 hours ago, Amira said:

Now I really want to hear more about this; why do we have to go back to Dalinar's past?

Wait, do you actually want another Shallan chapter?   What a change from:

On 15.07.2023 at 2:35 AM, Amira said:

And next we're going back to Shallan, why? I want to keep hearing about Kaladin!

But I get it. I felt the same. (I'll bet there will be a moment whey you say "I want another Dalinar flashback" )

8 hours ago, Amira said:

Meanwhile, I didn't really understand the thing with the hard drinks. She tells Pattern that her goal wasn't to get drunk, and that 'it's complicated', but it seemed at the beginning that her goal was to experience being under the influence so she could fake it at a later time. If this was indeed her goal, why would she tell Pattern 'it's complicated'?

She didn't know she could heal drunkenness with Stormlight. She likely wanted to get slightly drunk by drinking strong alcohol (because that's what a tough woman like Veil would want to drink) but she underestimated the strength of her drink. She wanted to be drunk because she hoped that some people would treat her as drunk and will tell her more information than they would be willing to tell somebody that isn't drunk (as people wouldn't trust her if she wasn't drunk, but will say anything to pick up a drunk woman, which Shallan didn't thought through). So that's why it's complicated, and explaining it to Pattern, who doesn't understand basic human interaction would be time consuming and mentally exhausting.

9 hours ago, Amira said:

Finally, do surgebinders feel less pain? I know they can heal themselves, but stabbing yourself through the hand is hard to do, and then not scream or even react is also hard to do. Both are near impossible, and Shallan does them casually. I mean, it would make sense if they don't feel as much pain, since they don't need to, with their ability to heal.

That's a good point. I've never thought about it. I guess she started to heal her wound as soon as the knife entered her body to ease up the pain. Or was it because Shallan was playing as Veil at that time and Veil can handle a little pain. But Radiants still feel pain when injured.

[The Stormfather He/Him]

It's really interesting to read your opinions whilst mine were wildly different.

[king of nowhere]

18 hours ago, Amira said:

Thank you, and you're welcome!

SA3 chapter 18: What the what?? Okay, I don't think the murderers are hypnotized to murder another person in the same manner without remembering they did it, because if this were the case, the corpses wouldn't end up so precisely the same. So either each set of two corpses are actually the same person transformed via Lightweaving or some other method to look like someone else, or the second person in each case is somehow magically killed in the same manner, like a duplication of the murder? Gosh, it's so bizarre.

well, for once, answers will be forthcoming. although I'm sure the answer will leave you with more questions.

Quote

But let's backtrack. Shallan is starting to lose it, trying to bury her trauma under illusions. Meanwhile, I didn't really understand the thing with the hard drinks. She tells Pattern that her goal wasn't to get drunk, and that 'it's complicated', but it seemed at the beginning that her goal was to experience being under the influence so she could fake it at a later time. If this was indeed her goal, why would she tell Pattern 'it's complicated'?

my take is that she wanted to practice acting like a though action woman. everyone knows roguelike action heroes always meet in pubs and have hard drinks, and never go beyond tipsy for that. she underestimated how difficult it is.

Quote

Finally, do surgebinders feel less pain? I know they can heal themselves, but stabbing yourself through the hand is hard to do, and then not scream or even react is also hard to do. Both are near impossible, and Shallan does them casually. I mean, it would make sense if they don't feel as much pain, since they don't need to, with their ability to heal.

 

surgebinders do NOT feel less pain. though knowing that you will get better immediately helps a lot in dealing with pain. and after a while, i suppose you'd get used to it.

more tehcnically, it seems like the healing process reduces pain; I remember other characters in the middle of magical healing feeling less pain once they start.

Finally, shallan is crazy. she can do that kind of stuff.

 

[Amira]

Thank you everyone for explaining about the drinks. It makes sense.

Sorry, I still don't think the hand thing is realistic. Just like she wasn't properly ready for how much the drink would burn, she wouldn't have been ready for how much that knife would hurt.

On 7/19/2023 at 7:02 AM, alder24 said:

Wait, do you actually want another Shallan chapter?

Yeah, right now I do.

On 7/19/2023 at 7:02 AM, alder24 said:

I'll bet there will be a moment whey you say "I want another Dalinar flashback"

If there will, it sure isn't now.

On 7/19/2023 at 0:17 PM, Stormform said:

It's really interesting to read your opinions whilst mine were wildly different.

Nice

Look what showed up:

Spoiler

I made an unboxing video too, but it's accidentally reversed. Once I either manage or fail to fix it, I'll link it in my profile.

SA3, chapter 19: Dalinar continues to be a brainless, heartless badass. I don't have anything else to say about this chapter. When I'm finally dying to hear more about Shallan, we're going back to Kaladin. You did this on purpose, Brandon, didn't you??

[Elder]

17 hours ago, Amira said:

Thank you everyone for explaining about the drinks. It makes sense.

Sorry, I still don't think the hand thing is realistic. Just like she wasn't properly ready for how much the drink would burn, she wouldn't have been ready for how much that knife would hurt.

Yeah, right now I do.

If there will, it sure isn't now.

Nice

Look what showed up:

  Reveal hidden contents

I made an unboxing video too, but it's accidentally reversed. Once I either manage or fail to fix it, I'll link it in my profile.

SA3, chapter 19: Dalinar continues to be a brainless, heartless badass. I don't have anything else to say about this chapter. When I'm finally dying to hear more about Shallan, we're going back to Kaladin. You did this on purpose, Brandon, didn't you??

Yup! 
Personally, I latched on to Dalinar in this one far more than Kalladin. I love seeing the contrast between who he was, who he is, and….. well, no spoilers.  

Shallan’s story in this one surprised me with how much it pulled me in.  

 But yeah, perspective changes always left me wanting more.

 

[Amira]

SA3, chapter 20: Kaladin starts seeing the other side. I look forward to him reporting back to Dalinar. If Dalinar is having difficulty now, trying to unite the humans against a common enemy, what will he do finding out that this enemy is in the right?

[king of nowhere]

27 minutes ago, Amira said:

 what will he do finding out that this enemy is in the right?

well, it is a bit more complicated than that. having been wronged in the past does not make one right.

you will see.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Amira said:

what will he do finding out that this enemy is in the right?

(Playing DA) Are they right?

Sure, they absolutely have a point - but do they (or the Radiants, or we-the-audience) have enough information?

*****

As far as Kaladin is concerned - this has been building a while. Remember back in WoR (ch44):

Spoiler

Kaladin stopped swinging, sweating but feeling unfulfilled. When he fought or trained, it wasn’t supposed to be like this. It was supposed to be Kaladin and the weapon, as one, not all of these problems bouncing around in his head.

“Syl,” he said, trying a thrust with the sword, “you’re honorspren. Does that mean you can tell me the right thing to do?”

“Definitely,” she said, hanging nearby in the form of a young woman, legs swinging off an invisible ledge. She wasn’t zipping around him in a ribbon, as she often did when he sparred.

“Is it wrong for Moash to try to kill the king?”

“Of course.”

“Why?”

“Because killing is wrong.”

“And the Parshendi I killed?”

“We’ve talked about this. It had to be done.”

“And what if one of them was a Surgebinder,” Kaladin said. “With his own honorspren?”

“Parshendi can’t become Surgebin—”

“Just pretend,” Kaladin said, grunting as he tried another thrust. He wasn’t getting it right. “I’d guess all the Parshendi want to do at this point is survive. Storms, the ones involved in Gavilar’s death, they might not even still be alive. Their leaders were executed back in Alethkar, after all. So you tell me, if a common Parshendi who is protecting his people comes up against me, what would his honorspren say? That he’s doing the right thing?”

“I . . .” Syl hunched down. She hated questions like this. “It doesn’t matter. You said you won’t kill the Parshendi anymore.”

Who knows where it might lead?

[The Sibling she/her]

 

2 hours ago, Amira said:

Kaladin starts seeing the other side. I look forward to him reporting back to Dalinar. If Dalinar is having difficulty now, trying to unite the humans against a common enemy, what will he do finding out that this enemy is in the right?

Honestly, I was asking the same questions around this part, and I'm not a huge fan of how it all resolved. I find the ethical questions raised around this part to be really interesting. I hope that you enjoy it. 

[Amira]

SA3, chapter 21: Another chapter of mostly setup, with something interesting happening at the very end. Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised that the Ghostbloods are associated with Sadeas' camp. They're not exactly nice people. It is a little funny, I suppose, that they were at odds with Amaram in book 2 iirc, and Amaram was close with Sadeas, and now Mraize is there with Ialai. But still, it mostly feels like it fits.

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Amira said:

Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised that the Ghostbloods are associated with Sadeas' camp.

What makes you say that?

2 hours ago, Amira said:

It is a little funny, I suppose, that they were at odds with Amaram in book 2

This might indicate something. . .

Edit Postscript: Wow, your Reputation has turned you into <very minor non-SA spoilers>

Spoiler

Szeth's new sword. . .

Spoiler

See Warbreaker to learn more on "Sentient Awakened Objects"

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Treamayne

[Elder]

4 hours ago, Amira said:

SA3, chapter 21: Another chapter of mostly setup, with something interesting happening at the very end. Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised that the Ghostbloods are associated with Sadeas' camp. They're not exactly nice people. It is a little funny, I suppose, that they were at odds with Amaram in book 2 iirc, and Amaram was close with Sadeas, and now Mraize is there with Ialai. But still, it mostly feels like it fits.

You know, I never made that connection before. 

[BinarySecond]

I just thought it was a convenient place to do dirty dealings as they're all pretty terrible people with loose morals.

[The flying spider he/him]

Hi I just caught up after reading the thread for two days. I love your reaction and I will just add I was definitely not as good at noticing details on my first read.

[Amira]

On 8/1/2023 at 9:41 PM, Treamayne said:

What makes you say that?

This:

On 8/1/2023 at 7:16 PM, Amira said:

Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised that the Ghostbloods are associated with Sadeas' camp. They're not exactly nice people.

 

On 8/2/2023 at 0:09 AM, Elder said:

You know, I never made that connection before.

Which connection? That both Sadeas' camp and the Ghostbloods aren't nice people, or that the Ghostbloods didn't like Amaram who is good buddies with Sadeas' camp?

On 8/3/2023 at 10:49 AM, Awakened rock stacker said:

Hi I just caught up after reading the thread for two days. I love your reaction and I will just add I was definitely not as good at noticing details on my first read.

Ah, thank you and welcome!

SA3 chapter 22: Still feels like Shallan is out of her depth dealing with Mraize. The only reason I'm not worried for her more is that Brandon rarely writes that kind of dark stuff. I guess maybe sometimes a little. Maybe I should be more worried. Yes, now I'm definitely worried. Though I'm more worried for Adolin, seeing as he's the one who killed Sadeas and now has to run an investigation on it, plus everyone is trying to figure out who did it. Glad the highstorms are coming back. We definitely need those!

Edited August 5, 2023 by Amira

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Amira said:

This:

On 8/1/2023 at 7:16 PM, Amira said:

we shouldn't be surprised that the Ghostbloods are associated with Sadeas' camp. They're not exactly nice people. It is a little funny, I suppose, that they were at odds with Amaram in book 2 iirc, and Amaram was close with Sadeas, and now Mraize is there with Ialai.

 

Sorry. I just thought you might have had some other reason.

You noted they were at odds in Words of Radiance, to the point that the Ghostbloods were actively spying on the Sadeas Camp and Amaram; but concluded that Mraize is working with Ialai when Shallan found him disguised in her retinue. . .

1 hour ago, Amira said:

Maybe I should be more worried. Yes, now I'm definitely worried. Though I'm more worried for Adolin, seeing as he's the one who killed Sadeas and now has to run an investigation on it, plus everyone is trying to figure out who did it.

But, it hasn't even gotten scary yet.

Quote

Glad the highstorms are coming back. We definitely need those!

Really says something when everybody is glad for a continent-spanning magical hurricane, huh.

[Elder]

2 hours ago, Amira said:

This:

 

Which connection? That both Sadeas' camp and the Ghostbloods aren't nice people, or that the Ghostbloods didn't like Amaram who is good buddies with Sadeas' camp?

Ah, thank you and welcome!

SA3 chapter 22: Still feels like Shallan is out of her depth dealing with Mraize. The only reason I'm not worried for her more is that Brandon rarely writes that kind of dark stuff. I guess maybe sometimes a little. Maybe I should be more worried. Yes, now I'm definitely worried. Though I'm more worried for Adolin, seeing as he's the one who killed Sadeas and now has to run an investigation on it, plus everyone is trying to figure out who did it. Glad the highstorms are coming back. We definitely need those!

Mraize infiltrating Sadeas’ camp and their enmity with Amaram.

[Amira]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:54 PM, Treamayne said:

Sorry. I just thought you might have had some other reason.

No worries. Guess what I wrote wasn't very clear

SA3 chapter 23: On the one hand, I want to find out what the parshmen are planning (or rather, what the voidspren are planning for them). On the other, I'm starting to worry that if Kaladin stays for too long, something will start going wrong. My guess is that the one the voidspren answer to is one of the listener gods.

Chapter 24: Taravangian arrives at Urithiru. I'm guessing this is one of his stupider days. I think it's cool that he has this condition that absolutely no one can guess at, because it's completely unique. I mean, sure, people in this world know about the Nightwatcher, but that doesn't give them the ability to guess this specific thing she did to Taravangian. You can't find a better cover than your condition/abilities being beyond anyone's ability to imagine. I have some of that irl, so I can relate XD.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Amira

[Amira]

SA3 chapter 25: Shallan manages to make her illusions speak for themselves for the first time and it's not really explained how; apparently it just came with practice? It seems like she's also starting to be able to create things she didn't draw. Then she catches a couple glimpses of the spren that's been copying all attacks - if indeed it's a spren like she's assuming, and if indeed it is the thing that's copying the attacks. My guess is yes at least on the second. But what was that part about her seeing multiple versions of herself? Did the spren do that, or did Shallan do that inadvertently for some reason?

[Treamayne]

50 minutes ago, Amira said:

Then she catches a couple glimpses of the spren that's been copying all attacks - if indeed it's a spren like she's assuming, and if indeed it is the thing that's copying the attacks. My guess is yes at least on the second.

It should make sense soon. I'm guessing you are asking rhetorically and don't really want spoilers. If you want a hint:

Spoiler

It's related to Way of Kings Ch 19 - Starfalls

58 minutes ago, Amira said:

But what was that part about her seeing multiple versions of herself? Did the spren do that, or did Shallan do that inadvertently for some reason?

I don't know that we have a definitive answer to that, I took it as an inadvertant attempt to not "appear alone" in chasing an unknown threat (maybe with a dab of illuminating the space while looking for whatever-it-was).

 

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Amira said:

SA3 chapter 25: Shallan manages to make her illusions speak for themselves for the first time and it's not really explained how; apparently it just came with practice?

Did she do that or was she just telling the story? I'm not sure myself.

Quote

“Why is there a wall?” she asked the man selling fruit, speaking with her own voice.

 

10 hours ago, Amira said:

But what was that part about her seeing multiple versions of herself? Did the spren do that, or did Shallan do that inadvertently for some reason?

At this point she was Radiant. I think she just used her illumination's power to create dozens of versions of herself just in case that "spren" tried to attack her - it would be confused and wouldn't know who to attack, giving Shallan a tactical advantage in fight.