ash's_eyes she/her Posted May 10, 2022 Report Share Posted May 10, 2022 Not sure if this has been brough up before, I couldn't find a whole lot on it. "In the English language, the word "ardent" is an adjective meaning eager, zealous or passionate" (not sure how or if I need to link to the coppermind? This is in the "trivia" section of Vorinism). Odium is very adamant about making it known that he is not just hatred, but passion. Anyone know of any possible connections or have ideas about connections between the ardents and Odium? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvothe the Bloodless he/him Posted May 10, 2022 Report Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) The word ardent could be a clue to human history on Roshar and Ashyn. Odium used to be the god of the humans when they were in Ashyn, so the use of the word "ardent" as a religious term might be a hint that humanity has it's (religious) roots in Odium. Edited May 10, 2022 by Kvothe the Bloodless 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted May 10, 2022 Report Share Posted May 10, 2022 9 hours ago, ash's_eyes said: Not sure if this has been brough up before, I couldn't find a whole lot on it. "In the English language, the word "ardent" is an adjective meaning eager, zealous or passionate" (not sure how or if I need to link to the coppermind? This is in the "trivia" section of Vorinism). Odium is very adamant about making it known that he is not just hatred, but passion. Anyone know of any possible connections or have ideas about connections between the ardents and Odium? That's a good catch! Vorinism seems heavily influenced by Odium. The whole "life on Roshar is training for the battle for the Tranquiline Halls (the Heavens)" lines up with Odium's plans for Roshar. Quote "I need soldiers. For the true battle that is coming, not for one people or one miserable windswept continent. A battle of the gods. A battle for everything; Roshar is a training ground." RoW Ch. 112 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted May 10, 2022 Report Share Posted May 10, 2022 9 hours ago, Kvothe the Bloodless said: The word ardent could be a clue to human history on Roshar and Ashyn. Odium used to be the god of the humans when they were in Ashyn, so the use of the word "ardent" as a religious term might be a hint that humanity has it's (religious) roots in Odium. It's likely that Odium also influenced the Hierocracy (just looking at how/why that happened) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookwyrm he/him Posted May 10, 2022 Report Share Posted May 10, 2022 We do know that Odium was once the god of the humans, and Honor and Cultivation the gods of the singers, but then they switched. Maybe Odium, though now technically the god of the singers, has kept some ties to the humans of Roshar, subtly influencing their cultures even as they fight against him. Especially with Honor dead, it gives him some room to spread his own ideas through the human cultures of Roshar. Hm... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash's_eyes she/her Posted May 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2022 20 hours ago, Kvothe the Bloodless said: The word ardent could be a clue to human history on Roshar and Ashyn. Odium used to be the god of the humans when they were in Ashyn, so the use of the word "ardent" as a religious term might be a hint that humanity has it's (religious) roots in Odium. 9 hours ago, The Bookwyrm said: We do know that Odium was once the god of the humans, and Honor and Cultivation the gods of the singers, but then they switched. Ok I did think about that; I thought maybe it was something that stuck since Odium used to be the god of the humans, thanks for reminding me of that. 10 hours ago, Treamayne said: It's likely that Odium also influenced the Hierocracy (just looking at how/why that happened) that makes a lot of sense 11 hours ago, Child of Hodor said: Vorinism seems heavily influenced by Odium. The whole "life on Roshar is training for the battle for the Tranquiline Halls (the Heavens)" lines up with Odium's plans for Roshar. Yeah it does seem to be heavily influenced by Odium. I wonder if there are more hints in Vorin practices and teachings that could give us more clues about humans before they came to Roshar and what happened on Ashyn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwa1ker she/her Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 On 5/9/2022 at 7:30 PM, ash's_eyes said: Not sure if this has been brough up before, I couldn't find a whole lot on it. "In the English language, the word "ardent" is an adjective meaning eager, zealous or passionate" (not sure how or if I need to link to the coppermind? This is in the "trivia" section of Vorinism). Odium is very adamant about making it known that he is not just hatred, but passion. Anyone know of any possible connections or have ideas about connections between the ardents and Odium? I just had to pop in to say you just blew my storming mind! I had never made this connection and it makes so much sense with humanity history with Odium 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 I like the idea of a connection between Odium and Vorinism, nice catch! I'd add that Vorinism and the belief in Heralds but suspicion of Radiants also benefits Odium. As does the continued adherence to the Heralds, who, as we know, are mad and not to be trusted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted May 19, 2022 Report Share Posted May 19, 2022 That is ... really interesting. I'd just taken it as meaning "devoted" and being used to show they aren't exactly RL monks or priests, but this is very plausible. The Thaylen Passions are also highly suspicious. ...hmm, and there is a comment by Jasnah talking to Shallan about how the gods Honor/the Almighty and Cultivation were inspired by the grouping of spren into emotion spren and nature spren. Obviously that isn't literally true (they are actually Shards) but I wonder if the Honor/emotion spren connection is another sign of Odium adding Passion stuff to formerly Honor-centered thought. (Maybe he had less chance to mess with Cultivation beliefs since she's alive and active.) ...and what about the "all future sight is of the enemy" thing? There's some truth to it (Moelach's death rattles) but future sight is a general Cosmere thing not exclusive to Odium (and the gem archive "I foresaw this" implies pre-Recreance Truthwatchers had it). It did prime people not to believe Dalinar about the visions from Honor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ShardlessVessel Posted May 19, 2022 Report Share Posted May 19, 2022 On 09/05/2022 at 9:30 PM, ash's_eyes said: Odium is very adamant about making it known that he is not just hatred, but passion. Little nit-pick, but I want to point out that Rayse is the one who keeps trying to make Odium be seen as the god of Passion. The one glimpse we get of the Shard itself near the end of ROW, it looks like this: Spoiler The terrible fury, like an unbridled storm, churned and burned within him. It too was so overwhelming he could barely control it. Spoiler Free to destroy! To burn! To wreak havoc and terror upon those who had doubted him! Rage, vindictiveness and destruction. The pure, isolated hatred of a god. This detail aside, I agree with you, and I think Rayse's characterization of Odium as Passion was used to manipulate the people of Roshar, both singers and humans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash's_eyes she/her Posted May 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2022 5 hours ago, ShardlessVessel said: Little nit-pick, but I want to point out that Rayse is the one who keeps trying to make Odium be seen as the god of Passion. The one glimpse we get of the Shard itself near the end of ROW, it looks like this: Reveal hidden contents The terrible fury, like an unbridled storm, churned and burned within him. It too was so overwhelming he could barely control it. Reveal hidden contents Free to destroy! To burn! To wreak havoc and terror upon those who had doubted him! Good point 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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