New selfish ability radiants have

[Rg2045]

The thought came to mind after people were talking in another post if an aluminum mirror would reveal a lightweaver. And they mentioned how being able to look into the CR might reveal them with the discrepancies. Then I thought maybe not them but possibly reveal the spren. And who have we seen that can sense spren? That’s right mr unhappy zahal himself. So how can radiants counter such a measure. That’s easy, get rid of the spren.

ok ok so it’s not like I’m saying break the bond or to somehow hemalurgy the spren for the abilities but simply leave the spren at home, 

in RoW kaladin and syl get separated and syl loses herself due to the distance between them. But once they are close she is right back to being herself. Kaladin is still awake, and able to use stormlight during the dampening of his abilities. So as far as we know this doesn’t hurt the spren just dumbs them down for a time, and it doesn’t matter for the radiant as they can still use their abilities.

Now obviously they work better together than alone but in order to properly infiltrate some places they might have to separate, maybe the spren can go back to the CR to retain thoughts? As long as the bonds not broken it should be fine right? 

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Rg2045 said:

So as far as we know this doesn’t hurt the spren; just dumbs them down for a time, and it doesn’t matter for the radiant as they can still use their abilities.

Except that Syl shows signs of PTSD after the event you mentioned (but, can now kinda-understand Kal's depression) and because it was so close to the end of RoW we don't know what other fall-out the separation will create.

Seem's like Veil and Pattern's version of infiltrating the Sons of Honor was a better method. Stay close enough to act normal, but far enough to not be directly tied. Also allows the partial-second Shardblade "summon" to help the Spren know where and how far away their Radiant is from them (since they are still in the PR and sapient).

Not that people with Breath enough to sense Spren are that common; neither are Sighted Unkalaki.

[Rg2045]

12 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Except that Syl shows signs of PTSD after the event you mentioned (but, can now kinda-understand Kal's depression) and because it was so close to the end of RoW we don't know what other fall-out the separation will create.

Seem's like Veil and Pattern's version of infiltrating the Sons of Honor was a better method. Stay close enough to act normal, but far enough to not be directly tied. Also allows the partial-second Shardblade "summon" to help the Spren know where and how far away their Radiant is from them (since they are still in the PR and sapient).

Not that people with Breath enough to sense Spren are that common; neither are Sighted Unkalaki.

Wasnt syls depression caused due to her being too young for the bond and her radiant dying ripping her soul and spiraling her into a depression? What I’m trying to say it’s not great but it’s not permanent (as far as we know) but I do agree with what you said that shallans and patterns way is probably superior

[Returned]

17 minutes ago, Rg2045 said:

Wasnt syls depression caused due to her being too young for the bond and her radiant dying ripping her soul and spiraling her into a depression? What I’m trying to say it’s not great but it’s not permanent (as far as we know) but I do agree with what you said that shallans and patterns way is probably superior

I'd thought that Syl's instance of depression came from her request to be able to feel what Kaladin was going through in order to understand him better, though I'm sure the separation is not very good for strongly bonded spren.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Rg2045 said:

Wasnt syls depression caused due to her being too young for the bond and her radiant dying ripping her soul and spiraling her into a depression? What I’m trying to say it’s not great but it’s not permanent (as far as we know) but I do agree with what you said that shallans and patterns way is probably superior

1 hour ago, Returned said:

I'd thought that Syl's instance of depression came from her request to be able to feel what Kaladin was going through in order to understand him better, though I'm sure the separation is not very good for strongly bonded spren.

Two separate (but possibly related) things:

RoW I-1

Spoiler

“He’s different, isn’t he?” Syl said. “Worse, because his own mind fights against him.”

“Different, yes,” Dalinar said, leaning on the railing next to her. “But who is to say what is worse or better? We each have our own Voidbringers to slay, Brightness Sylphrena. No man can judge another man’s heart or trials, for no man can truly know them.”

“I want to try,” she said. “The Stormfather implied there was a way. Can you make me understand Kaladin’s emotions? Can you make me feel what he’s going through?”

“I have no idea how to accomplish something like that,” Dalinar said.

“He and I have a bond,” she said. “You should be able to use your powers to enhance that bond, strengthen it.”

Dalinar clasped his hands on the stonework before him. He didn’t object to her request—he wasn’t the type to reject any idea out of hand.

“What do you know of my powers?” Dalinar asked her.

“Your abilities are what made the original Oathpact,” she said. “And they existed—and were named—long before the Knights Radiant were founded. A Bondsmith Connected the Heralds to Braize, made them immortal, and locked our enemies away. A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world. A Bondsmith created—or at least discovered—the Nahel bond: the ability of spren and humans to join together into something better. You Connect things, Dalinar. Realms. Ideas. People.”

He surveyed the frosted landscape, freshly painted with snow. She thought she knew his answer already, from the way he took a breath and set his jaw before speaking.

“Even if I could do this,” he said, “it would not be right.”

She became a small pile of leaves, disintegrating and stirring in the wind. “Then I’ll never be able to help him.”

“You can help without knowing exactly what he’s feeling. You can be available for him to lean on.”

“I try. Sometimes he doesn’t seem to want even me.”

“That’s likely when he needs you most. We can never know another man’s heart, Brightness Sylphrena, but we all know what it is to live and have pain. That is the advice I’d have given to another. I do not know if it applies to you.”

Syl looked upward, along the tower’s pointing finger, raised toward the sky. “I … had another knight once. We came here to the tower, when it was alive—though I don’t fully remember what that meant. I lost memories during the … pain.”

“What pain?” Dalinar asked. “What pain does a spren feel?”

“He died. My knight, Relador. He went to fight, despite his age. He shouldn’t have, and when he was killed, it hurt. I felt alone. So alone that I started to drift…”

Dalinar nodded. “I suspect that Kaladin feels something similar, though from what I’ve been told about his ailment, it doesn’t have a specific cause. He will sometimes start to … drift, as you put it.”

“The dark brain,” she said.

“An apt designation.”

Dalinar denied her request to let her feel Kal's despair. That was her remembering having been in pain, but she (at this point) doesn't really even remember what drifting and pain felt like, just knows she felt them. 

However, after having been separated in the tower; then having the loss of Teft piled on top (the first of Bridge Four to be killed in such a fashion after she returned third-oath level sapiance):

RoW Ch 102

Spoiler

She recovered herself with a gasp, then landed on his hand, wearing her girlish dress.

“Are you all right?” he whispered.

“No,” she said. “No, not at all. That felt … felt like it did when I nearly died. Like it did when I drifted for centuries. I feel sad, Kaladin. And cold.”

“I understand those feelings,” he replied. “But the enemy, Syl … they’re going to execute the Radiants. And they might have my parents.”

She peered up at him. Then her shape fuzzed, and she was instantly in a uniform like his, colored Kholin blue.

RoW Ch 106

Spoiler

Teft had been so vibrant, so alive. So sturdy and so constant. He’d finally defeated his own monsters, had really come into his own, claiming his Radiance. He had been a wonderful, loving, amazing man.

He’d depended on Kaladin. Like Tien. Like a hundred others. But he couldn’t save them. He couldn’t protect them.

Syl whimpered, shrinking in on herself. Kaladin wished he could shrink as well. Maybe if he’d lived as his father wanted, he could have avoided this. He said he fought to protect, but he didn’t end up protecting anything, did he? He just destroyed. Killed.

RoW Ch 107

Spoiler

Kaladin fell.

The wind tossed him and whipped at him. He was just rags. Just … rags for a person.

I’ve forgotten the Words, Kaladin, Syl said, weeping. I see only darkness.

RoW Ch 108

Spoiler

That was. He reached into the darkness and seized her hand, pulling her to him. She grabbed him, physical in this place and his own size.

She held to him, and shook as she spoke. “I’ve forgotten the Words. I’m supposed to help you, but I can’t. I…”

“You are helping,” Kaladin said, “by being here.” He closed his eyes, feeling the storm as they broke through the moment between and entered the real world.

“Besides,” he whispered, “I know the Words.”

RoW Ch 114

Spoiler

Syl landed beside him fully sized, in a Bridge Four uniform. He could faintly feel her when she rested her head on his shoulder.

“We won’t stop missing him, will we?” she asked softly.

“No. But that’s all right. So long as we cling to the moments we had.”

“I can’t believe you’re taking this better than I am.”

“I thought you said you were recovering.”

“I am,” she said. “This still hurts though.” Once the tower had been restored, she’d mostly returned to herself. Some of what she’d felt had been gloom from what Raboniel had done.

Some of it wasn’t.

“We could ask Dalinar,” Kaladin said. “If maybe there’s something wrong with you. A bond or something unnatural.”

“He won’t find one. I’m merely … alive. And this is part of being alive. So I’m grateful, even if part of it stinks.”

He nodded.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this series of exchanges, but it seems to me that the fallout from the separation will continue. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Treamayne
Formatting / SPAG

[Rg2045]

26 minutes ago, Returned said:

I'd thought that Syl's instance of depression came from her request to be able to feel what Kaladin was going through in order to understand him better, though I'm sure the separation is not very good for strongly bonded spren.

I don’t think Dalinar knew enough to preform the act. So syl had to look back to the time she was “in darkness” To sympathize with kaladin 

[Frustration he/him]

I'd say it would be easier to turn the spren into a small physical object and carry it.

[Rg2045]

7 hours ago, Frustration said:

I'd say it would be easier to turn the spren into a small physical object and carry it.

Shoot. That’s true. Turn them into a fabrial