Fabrial screens.

[Frustration he/him]

So fabrials can be used to make computers

Spoiler

Snipexe

Could an analog computer be made using fabrials?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

and one of the big questions I've been having is how they make the screens for them, can someone with a bigger brain and more understanding of computer science than myself lend me a hand?

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

So fabrials can be used to make computers

  Reveal hidden contents

Snipexe

Could an analog computer be made using fabrials?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

and one of the big questions I've been having is how they make the screens for them, can someone with a bigger brain and more understanding of computer science than myself lend me a hand?

Well, we know that there are fabrials for all ten surges, or at least all of them besides Bondsmithing, likely Adhesion.

Spoiler

kvancleeff21

What was the fabrial used by Nale to completely revive Szeth at the end of Words of Radiance? That seems like an immensely powerful fabrial, and I don’t think it has been mentioned since.

Brandon Sanderson

During the last days of the heights of the Knights Radiant, they were figuring out how to replicate most Radiant abilities with fabrials. This is where... the Oathgates as a guide for that sort of thing. So you're just seeing a fabrial that can replicate what an Edgedancer does, or a Truthwatcher. There were fabrials created that could do this for all ten Surges. Okay, nine of the ten Surges. Bondsmithing is its own weird thing, as usual. So yes, it's a very valuable fabrial to have, and that is why you haven't seen much more of it because it is in the hands of the Skybreakers, and we aren't spending a lot of time with the Skybreakers. But yeah, it is a thing they have. And there are fabrials that can replicate the other eight as well. You've seen several of them in the books already.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

So you could make a screen via lightweaving.

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, Nameless said:

Well, we know that there are fabrials for all ten surges, or at least all of them besides Bondsmithing, likely Adhesion.

  Reveal hidden contents

kvancleeff21

What was the fabrial used by Nale to completely revive Szeth at the end of Words of Radiance? That seems like an immensely powerful fabrial, and I don’t think it has been mentioned since.

Brandon Sanderson

During the last days of the heights of the Knights Radiant, they were figuring out how to replicate most Radiant abilities with fabrials. This is where... the Oathgates as a guide for that sort of thing. So you're just seeing a fabrial that can replicate what an Edgedancer does, or a Truthwatcher. There were fabrials created that could do this for all ten Surges. Okay, nine of the ten Surges. Bondsmithing is its own weird thing, as usual. So yes, it's a very valuable fabrial to have, and that is why you haven't seen much more of it because it is in the hands of the Skybreakers, and we aren't spending a lot of time with the Skybreakers. But yeah, it is a thing they have. And there are fabrials that can replicate the other eight as well. You've seen several of them in the books already.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

So you could make a screen via lightweaving.

I keep forgeting those are things. I suppose that would work.

Dude I'm just imagining that and it feels so high tech.

 

Though now that you mention light do you think they could make a screen out of a polestone and attract stormlight to specific regions as a display image?

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Though now that you mention light do you think they could make a screen out of a polestone and attract stormlight to specific regions as a display image?

Maybe. Unless they figured out how to change the color, it would probably be pretty basic. And they'd need really big gemstones to make computer screens.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

If you're using lightweaving, there's no real reason it would be just a "screen" like we have them, probably a hologram would be just as easy to make (kinda similar to the map dalinar and shallan can make). And that does seem to be the direction the cosmere is headed eventually, with sci-fi esque tech so it would make sense

[Returned]

You don't even necessarily need a screen, depending on what you want to do with the computer. A spanreed could write output, sort of like the old-fashioned punch card computers and printed output.

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

It is probably possible to create the Internet using fabrials and gemstones. Especially if you can create a transfer of stormlight that is used to represent a symbolic number like ones and zeros.

[Rg2045]

10 hours ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

It is probably possible to create the Internet using fabrials and gemstones. Especially if you can create a transfer of stormlight that is used to represent a symbolic number like ones and zeros.

Cough cough logic spren?

[Frustration he/him]

So I did some looking into how real moniters work, and it looks like stormlight held gems would work in place of the light systems we use.

[Lego Mistborn he/him]

7 hours ago, Frustration said:

So I did some looking into how real moniters work, and it looks like stormlight held gems would work in place of the light systems we use.

They'd need to be some very small gemstones, if you want good resolution.

[Frustration he/him]

4 hours ago, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

They'd need to be some very small gemstones, if you want good resolution.

That's ture, but not outside the realm of possibility.

[+viengua]

Man, this is a fun question. Assuming a lack of surge fabrials or cooperative higher spren, I would expect that Rosharan computers would not have a monitor quite like those currently in everyday use on Earth. I think they would be much more likely to develop a holographic approach.

Monitors as we think of them suit digital computing, and require a whole stack of technologies and advances to work. They follow certain approaches to hardware/software separation, data representation (pretty huge in implications and weight), memory models, power usage, and protocols for communication between devices, that don't really fit with how spren and fabrials seem to work. I think it would be possible to reproduce, but at that point you're wasting a lot of the potential of a fabrial vs just making a digital computer as we have them on Earth.

Rosharan Fabrials could produce holography more easily, I think, than they could produce pixels and screens. Screens are a development path you'd really have to be forced down, because of how many technologies you need to get that to work, and how easily Rosharans could take other paths. Rather than representing images internally as a big list of coloured dots, you represent them as a waveform, which seems a more natural fit for how artifabrians might approach this. Holographic displays would require far fewer component fabrials (and thus, captured spren, gemstones, and fairly intricate looking cages) to produce the image than a screen. Soulcasting makes a big difference too in availability of materials, which has often been a problem for holography.

I don't know how deep to go into explaining why I think this, I'm holding myself back from the rabbithole big time. While I am a CompSci PhD candidate, I am not directly working in the field of display/video stuff. My work sometimes touches on implementations of video and image processing, but only ever because something's broken. I have, however, had conversations with colleagues who do work directly on producing hologram technology, but AFAIK they haven't read Stormlight, else I'd refer directly to them for the answer.

Edited June 3, 2022 by viengua

[Frustration he/him]

50 minutes ago, viengua said:

Man, this is a fun question. Assuming a lack of surge fabrials or cooperative higher spren, I would expect that Rosharan computers would not have a monitor quite like those currently in everyday use on Earth. I think they would be much more likely to develop a holographic approach.

Monitors as we think of them suit digital computing, and require a whole stack of technologies and advances to work. They follow certain approaches to hardware/software separation, data representation (pretty huge in implications and weight), memory models, power usage, and protocols for communication between devices, that don't really fit with how spren and fabrials seem to work. I think it would be possible to reproduce, but at that point you're wasting a lot of the potential of a fabrial vs just making a digital computer as we have them on Earth.

Rosharan Fabrials could produce holography more easily, I think, than they could produce pixels and screens. Screens are a development path you'd really have to be forced down, because of how many technologies you need to get that to work, and how easily Rosharans could take other paths. Rather than representing images internally as a big list of coloured dots, you represent them as a waveform, which seems a more natural fit for how artifabrians might approach this. Holographic displays would require far fewer component fabrials (and thus, captured spren, gemstones, and fairly intricate looking cages) to produce the image than a screen. Soulcasting makes a big difference too in availability of materials, which has often been a problem for holography.

I don't know how deep to go into explaining why I think this, I'm holding myself back from the rabbithole big time. While I am a CompSci PhD candidate, I am not directly working in the field of display/video stuff. My work sometimes touches on implementations of video and image processing, but only ever because something's broken. I have, however, had conversations with colleagues who do work directly on producing hologram technology, but AFAIK they haven't read Stormlight, else I'd refer directly to them for the answer.

Well that is definatly intresting. Thank you for taking the time to answer this.

Would there be any big implications for Rosharan computing if this is the case?

[+viengua]

27 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Well that is definatly intresting. Thank you for taking the time to answer this.

Would there be any big implications for Rosharan computing if this is the case?

Absolutely tons, I think.

The key thing here is that the fabrials that produce effects do so in a very analogue, rather than discrete, way. How you control fabrials with other fabrials isn't something that's completely clear to me, but the clocks/watches prove that it can be done. Making peripherals in general might be way easier, as everything is of the same kind in a way that just isn't true for modern electronics (microphones are not cameras are not CPUs are not keyboards are not radios, etc). On Roshar, everything can just be a fabrial, which means it uses a common vocabulary for how they can interact. The types of input devices would probably be quite different. I imagine the Sibling+Urithiru as one possible model for how Rosharans might develop computers, but you're limited by the number of higher spren that might oblige your needs for a processor. 

In less broad terms, off the top of my head, it could mean compression algorithms might not be such a big deal; when your representation of images is more like waveforms, like light, it's closer to being something the spren understands intuitively. You aren't as limited by the things that make compression essential in modern computing, though we don't know the bandwidth of conjoined fabrials, let alone in terms relevant to how they might usefully pass data.

Edited June 3, 2022 by viengua

[Morningtide she/her]

I have thought about this a little bit. I mostly just have a slightly off topic comment:

It fascinates me that Roshar can be so technologically advanced and far behind at the same time. Because they have things like Stormlight for light, it is highly improbably to me that they will ever discover electricity, but at the current moment, they have discovered how to make what is basically flying cars (Navani's Fourth Bridge). I think that this is mostly due to the nature of the magic system, but it is odd how they could have basically holograms, which is what lightweaving screens would be, before they would have a lightbulb. 

[Frustration he/him]

32 minutes ago, Morningtide said:

I have thought about this a little bit. I mostly just have a slightly off topic comment:

It fascinates me that Roshar can be so technologically advanced and far behind at the same time. Because they have things like Stormlight for light, it is highly improbably to me that they will ever discover electricity, but at the current moment, they have discovered how to make what is basically flying cars (Navani's Fourth Bridge). I think that this is mostly due to the nature of the magic system, but it is odd how they could have basically holograms, which is what lightweaving screens would be, before they would have a lightbulb. 

Why would they need a lightbulb? Sphere's are just better in every way.

Honestly of all the worlds we've seen Roshar is the most advanced in almost every reguard, the only real exception is ranged weapons.

[cometaryorbit]

They are basically using magic to replace conventional tech - spheres for light, Soulcasting to dramatically simplify logistics, spanreeds for communication,

I hope we see some of the interaction between this and more standard tech like Era 2 Scadrial (as opposed to jumping to space era when that interaction was all figured out generations ago). Rosharans might have real trouble understanding how other worlds work because they don't have "science" distinct from magic.

[Morningtide she/her]

6 hours ago, Frustration said:

Why would they need a lightbulb? Sphere's are just better in every way.

Honestly of all the worlds we've seen Roshar is the most advanced in almost every reguard, the only real exception is ranged weapons.

I wasn't saying that they needed lightbulbs or should make them, just that it's interesting how the magic system almost replaced the technology that we use. I believe that I phrased that confusingly, sorry. 

So yes, I agree with both things that you're saying. 

[cometaryorbit]

Roshar's capabilities are generally pretty high, maybe in some ways comparable to the early 20th century- spanreeds are better than telegraphs but can't do video; aircraft are just getting started - but they lack some major things, like any equivalent of trains/trucks for large scale transport at decent speeds. Maybe they'll get there with fabrial vehicles eventually, but could Fourth Bridge style designs be scaled up that far?

OTOH logistics is easier because of Soulcasting, so that lack isn't as much of a disadvantage as it would be elsewhere.

Also I bet there are a lot of things they could do, but don't have the science to figure out that they could.

For example they probably could soulcast plastics or "modern" metals like titanium, or even radioactives, but wouldn't have the scientific basis to predict those things might exist. And they're probably not doing a lot of exploratory metallurgy (eg trying to analyze various ores) or exploratory chemistry, so not much chance of stumbling on them by serendipity.

Soulcasting gives them incredible potential but may also limit their intellectual development.

[Frustration he/him]

2 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Roshar's capabilities are generally pretty high, maybe in some ways comparable to the early 20th century- spanreeds are better than telegraphs but can't do video;

But they are instantaneous.

2 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

but they lack some major things, like any equivalent of trains/trucks for large scale transport at decent speeds.

It's not so much as lack the capacity as lacking the availibility. There are a number of way to do so, they are just currently restricted to only a small group at the moment.

[Lego Mistborn he/him]

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

But they are instantaneous.

I don't think it's as much of an advantage over telegraph as it seems, and hardly enough to compete with video sharing.

[Frustration he/him]

5 minutes ago, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

I don't think it's as much of an advantage over telegraph as it seems, and hardly enough to compete with video sharing.

Someone on Roshar could instantly communicate with someone on the other side of the cosmere, whereas Video sharing would have a several hour delay at a minimum.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Frustration

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

Someone on Roshar could instantly communicate with someone on the other side of the cosmere, whereas Video sharing would have a several minute delay at a minimum.

We don't know that spanreeds are instant. Could be speed of light, and even if it isn't, there's still the issue of getting Investiture offworld.

[Lego Mistborn he/him]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Someone on Roshar could instantly communicate with someone on the other side of the cosmere, whereas Video sharing would have a several minute delay at a minimum.

I considered that when I wrote that post, however, in addition to @Nameless's input, I find that instantaneous messaging is still negligible in all but a few situations when regular fast messaging is an option, especially when fast messaging is more flexible.

[Frustration he/him]

3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

We don't know that spanreeds are instant. Could be speed of light, and even if it isn't, there's still the issue of getting Investiture offworld.

We do know that actually

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Rosharans already have an ansible. (reported by Kurkistan)

Spanreeds are, basically, evidence that FTL is possible in the Cosmere. It's not the only example too. (reported by Blightsong)

Footnote: Heavily paraphrased, aggregated from multiple comments.
OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

And while yes there is the issue of getting it offworld, that is an easy issue compared to interworld communication via non-magical means.

Just now, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

I considered that when I wrote that post, however, in addition to @Nameless's input, I find that instantaneous messaging is still negligible in all but a few situations when regular fast messaging is an option, especially when fast messaging is more flexible.

Conjoined gems are sensitive enough you can make a phone by attatching them to taunt membranes

Spoiler

Kurkistan

Are Conjoiner fabrials sensitive enough that pairs of them attached to taught membranes could work as telephones (conjoiner-phones?)?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. (Though this is somewhat far off, technologically, for the people on Roshar.)

/r/fantasy AMA 2013 (April 18, 2013)