I wonder about spy sprens

[Jerfier]

We saw Sja-Anat uses her windsprens as spies at the end of RoW. Clearly Kaladin can command to armor's windsprens. So I wonder that is Kaladin can use his armor's windsprens as spies. 

Also I wonder about Jasnah's armor's spren. Is she can command to them or it's a windrunner thing?

[EmulatonStromenkiin he/him]

Jasnah can probably command her platespren, It just doesn't occur to her.

[Sjsharks93]

I would guess the enlightened spren have a little more intelligence than basic windspren. Kaladin specifically comments on windspren not being very smart, so I don't think they would make great spies. 

As for control of the plate spren, I see no reason Jasnah wouldn't be able to control them. Kal is just more focused on protecting others so he tries some different things

[Rg2045]

Maybe 5th ideal power up? Kaladin can send his plate to others, a wonderful revelation especially sense we have been seeing him face shardbearers without it. (Funny accepting the fact he can’t save everyone allows him to Save even more) and it seemed that when he was saving his father he could control the winds throu the spren. So who knows

[Returned]

It doesn't seem like they can command the spren that form their plates beyond pretty basic things. Like, I don't know that you could give complex instructions to a windspren to have it secretly observe someone and then report back. Other spren might be different.

The instances we've seen of Kaladin channeling windspren to do things, like blunt Highstorm winds, seem to surprise everyone though so maybe there are things that are newly possible that no one has really thought of before. But we still don't know if those are things everyone with sufficiently advanced oaths can do or if its more specific to Kaladin.

[Rg2045]

2 hours ago, Returned said:

It doesn't seem like they can command the spren that form their plates beyond pretty basic things. Like, I don't know that you could give complex instructions to a windspren to have it secretly observe someone and then report back. Other spren might be different.

The instances we've seen of Kaladin channeling windspren to do things, like blunt Highstorm winds, seem to surprise everyone though so maybe there are things that are newly possible that no one has really thought of before. But we still don't know if those are things everyone with sufficiently advanced oaths can do or if its more specific to Kaladin.

It could be related to intent, if your told you can only do 5 lashes or that an honor blade takes 10 heartbeats to summon then you’ll believe it even if your life is in danger. So maybe the knights of old knew of plate and never pushed past that.

Maybe they couldn’t because of honor making them more limited, so when kaladin punches a hole in the middle of a highstorm it’s a more tremendous feat then we naturally assume. 
 

but let’s play devils advocate, sja-anat used windspren as a distraction to make sure that her other child will be fine. 
but we do know that in the epilogue wit makes comment about being spied on by enlightened/corrupted windspren. But they were easily distracted by design showing still their short attention span/Low intelligence. 
 

we also have syl wondering if she can help the windspren be more intelligent. 
 

so maybe windspren is intelligent enough to act as spies, but they don’t have direction. So they do as they wish. Maybe being corrupted/enlighten  raises intelligence 

[EmulatonStromenkiin he/him]

5 hours ago, Rg2045 said:

he could control the winds throu the spren.

this probably ties into the spren being somewhere between making and being made by the forces they represent.

[Treamayne]

11 hours ago, Jerfier said:

We saw Sja-Anat uses her windsprens as spies at the end of RoW. Clearly Kaladin can command to armor's windsprens. So I wonder that is Kaladin can use his armor's windsprens as spies. 

Where was this? As I recall Enlightened Windspren were in RoW three times:

• When Shallan lies about seeing one on the barge in Shadesmar (she said they were spying, but it was a lie)
  • Mraize furhter propagates the lie that Enlightened spren are acting as spies
• When Sja-Anat sent two to Urithiru as cover for the Enlightened Mistspren that was supposed to look at Mraize, but bonded Rlain
  • Again she said they were going to look at the tower, but it was a diversion
• When she sent two in spheres to Taravangian to lure Odium there

In none of those instances are Windspren actually acting as spies, so we have no evidence that they can. Sja Anat implies she can see their memories when they return to her (by saying Odium would unmake their memories) - but all evidence so far for Windspren (enlightened or not) was that their memories and attention are fickle and short at best.

Did I miss something else?

[Rg2045]

22 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Where was this? As I recall Enlightened Windspren were in RoW three times:

• When Shallan lies about seeing one on the barge in Shadesmar (she said they were spying, but it was a lie)
  • Mraize furhter propagates the lie that Enlightened spren are acting as spies
• When Sja-Anat sent two to Urithiru as cover for the Enlightened Mistspren that was supposed to look at Mraize, but bonded Rlain
  • Again she said they were going to look at the tower, but it was a diversion
• When she sent two in spheres to Taravangian to lure Odium there

In none of those instances are Windspren actually acting as spies, so we have no evidence that they can. Sja Anat implies she can see their memories when they return to her (by saying Odium would unmake their memories) - but all evidence so far for Windspren (enlightened or not) was that their memories and attention are fickle and short at best.

Did I miss something else?

Epilogue I believe, wit makes a note about the enlightened windspren watching him

[Treamayne]

35 minutes ago, Rg2045 said:

Epilogue I believe, wit makes a note about the enlightened windspren watching him

Yes, 4 events, three "sightings," but they were merely present - no mention of spying.

RoW Epilogue

Spoiler

“Hush,” Wit said. “Let the audience be amazed.”

“The audience?”

Wit nodded to the side, where a few odd spren were following in the air. Almost invisible, and trailing red light. Windspren—but the wrong color. She was expanding her influence, that old one was. He was curious where it would lead. Also horrified. But the two emotions were not mutually exclusive.

“I don’t think they care about your tricks,” Design said.

“Everyone cares about my tricks.”

Edited June 3, 2022 by Treamayne

[Jerfier]

13 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Where was this? As I recall Enlightened Windspren were in RoW three times:

• When Shallan lies about seeing one on the barge in Shadesmar (she said they were spying, but it was a lie)
  • Mraize furhter propagates the lie that Enlightened spren are acting as spies
• When Sja-Anat sent two to Urithiru as cover for the Enlightened Mistspren that was supposed to look at Mraize, but bonded Rlain
  • Again she said they were going to look at the tower, but it was a diversion
• When she sent two in spheres to Taravangian to lure Odium there

In none of those instances are Windspren actually acting as spies, so we have no evidence that they can. Sja Anat implies she can see their memories when they return to her (by saying Odium would unmake their memories) - but all evidence so far for Windspren (enlightened or not) was that their memories and attention are fickle and short at best.

Did I miss something else?

In the epilogue, Wit saw enlightened windsprens and he was sure they were spying for Sja-anat.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Jerfier

[Treamayne]

9 minutes ago, Jerfier said:

In the epilogue, Wit saw enlightened windsprens and he was sure they were spying for Sja-anat.

 

12 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Yes, 4 events, three "sightings," but they were merely present - no mention of spying.

RoW Epilogue

  Reveal hidden contents

“Hush,” Wit said. “Let the audience be amazed.”

“The audience?”

Wit nodded to the side, where a few odd spren were following in the air. Almost invisible, and trailing red light. Windspren—but the wrong color. She was expanding her influence, that old one was. He was curious where it would lead. Also horrified. But the two emotions were not mutually exclusive.

“I don’t think they care about your tricks,” Design said.

“Everyone cares about my tricks.”

 

[Jerfier]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

 

 

in the end of the epilogue, Wit said they were following him. If not for espionage then why should they follow him?

[Returned]

3 minutes ago, Jerfier said:

in the end of the epilogue, Wit said they were following him. If not for espionage then why should they follow him?

Attraction to something about him, what he's doing, or something happening to him? That's the "default" way that lesser spren work. Windspren follow Kaladin at various points in SA, and not for espionage.

We know very little about corrupted (or "enlightened") spren though, and given Sja Anat's general activities I think that espionage is a very reasonable guess.