Kasimir he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Shining Silhouette said: Hide contents Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Silhouette he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 any1 else wanna die well wr at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wandering Wizard he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Shining Silhouette said: any1 else wanna die well wr at it Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xinoehp512 he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 57 minutes ago, Shining Silhouette said: ok rp time. @my_boi_matdice, my character is jo btw jo walked dwn da street. he missed his ma 4 his ma was now jo mama e: cheks out 1+1=1 yes Archer(1): Xino Turtle(1): Ash Wiz(1): Turtle Shining(3): Wiz, Kas, Shining Kas(1): TUN 4 minutes ago, Shining Silhouette said: any1 else wanna die well wr at it Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookwyrm he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 minute ago, The Wandering Wizard said: Reveal hidden contents If you say so, Wiz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 Mat at us rn: Spoiler Hey Mat, you getting MR46 flashbacks? :eyes: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 My brain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Order he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, Ashbringer said: My brain M brin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Kasimir said: Mat at us rn: Hide contents Hey Mat, you getting MR46 flashbacks? :eyes: Tbh, I look back at MR46 and just feel bad about not being more chill :P. I wanted a nice tidy micro managed first GM experience, but now I just think this is hilarious so carry on with ur rgulrly skejuld votin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 I exist. I won't be voting this cycle because I want to escape the memes I want to demonstrate by my willingness to die that I am not an elim We're probably looking at two to three elims, depending on the item distribution. @Matrim's Dice may we create one on one PMs that don't include ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat he/him Posted November 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 Just now, Archer said: @Matrim's Dice may we create one on one PMs that don't include ourselves Technically the rules are worded that way, but it was never intended to be, so I’m going to say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Archer said: I exist. I won't be voting this cycle because I want to escape the memes I want to demonstrate by my willingness to die that I am not an elim We're probably looking at two to three elims, depending on the item distribution. @Matrim's Dice may we create one on one PMs that don't include ourselves? Quote Weeeeeee. That whole game was a rush. Thanks for running it, overlords. I am very sorry to everyone I manipulated or sussed in bad faith. I genuinely felt awful for enjoying being evil so much. Did anyone else have PMs? I've been making less of them in recent games when I've had less time to spare, but I wasn't sure if there was a lot going on behind the scenes or a little. Also, not voting is an elim tell confirmed. Next time someone doesn't want to vote, point to this game and sus 'em for me. You are Archer, & this is a QF that can take a toll on the Village due to Violation Dislike performative desire 4 V!read over utility 2 Vil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNV Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 [OOC: Now Im worried my pregame decision to play in RP style for as long as I could manage was the wrong choice considering the style of the thread] Jal found a table in the back of the inn and sipped at their drink. It was becoming a habit to come to the inn at the end of the day, grab a drink, and hunker down. It was a place that everyone went to, the beating heart of the town, and all sorts went there. It was a good place to hear the sort of secrets people would kill and die for. It was a good place to keep your back to the wall. People were a little less willing to throw punches here, but with enough alcohol, even the most shade-fearing man could get riled up. There wasn’t enough silver in the world to keep out shades who’d sensed blood in the air. You just had to keep dust on you and hope you weren’t the unlucky sod who’d been stupid enough to make someone bleed. Violence was trickier when blood was off the table, but people still found a way. As long as the blood did not touch the air, you were safe. Jal knew this all too well. They had seen so much violence over the years, partaken in it too. But those days were behind them. Now, they kept peace in subtler ways. Silver for shades, secrets for humans. It’s a matter of pressure. Hit just the right spot with just the right amount of force, and anyone will buckle. For the tricker people, there were always caltrops. They went from waystop to waystop, cleaned up or cleared out the malcontents, and carried on. Vinnie was one of the lesser malcontents, bold and a bit of a liar. Nothing a good pressure point wouldn’t take care of. They just had to find the right point. So they’d signed up for an expedition. Easily survivable for them, and they’d get some good intel on the way. As long as everyone followed the Simple Rules, they’d be in and out in a few days. But of course, depending on the competence of the other was an exercise in futility. In fact, the incompetence bordered on… sabotage. Huh. That made a lot more sense than the complete and utter incompetence of some of the group. And it seemed like the rest of the group had come to the same conclusion. Accusations were flying through the air. Might as well add their voice to the fire. “Honestly, all of you seem like decent folk, but that Mat Rims [Novel] is a bit off. Mentioning collusion like that?” [OOC: Trying to come up with a good RP reason for why the vote was happening was a bit hard like the evils are shades are we just pretending the shades can pretend to be people now like whats up with that so Im just going with working with the shades as my excuse youre welcome to countermand that but genuinely could not think of anything and also the vote is more of a ‘dont want to die by the vote filter’ vote than anything series Ill hoepfully find something more genuine later] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kasimir said: [link] how actually if you have that good of a memory can you tell me if Xino ever used the blue graph format before the recent LG? I swear he did and couldn't find it. Edit: "this is a QF that can take a toll on the Village due to Violation" -Kas Technically I can't be violated if I don't vote so at least one village will be okay 47 minutes ago, JNV said: “Honestly, all of you seem like decent folk, but that Mat Rims [Novel] is a bit off. Mentioning collusion like that?” "I'm pretty sure Mat's the one leading this expedition, hun." Gale checked her clipboard. "Oh never mind, I just crossed the streams and confused them with someone else." She prodded Jal's belly with her pencil, sizing them up. "You're a big softy, huh! Visit my tent later, I'm doing a casting call for my marshmallow commercial." [OOC: Are you softing your item being Silver Dust? :3] Edited November 8, 2022 by Archer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Archer said: actually if you have that good of a memory can you tell me if Xino ever used the blue graph format before the recent LG? I swear he did and couldn't find it. dnt recall - saw this in ag7 but via illwei running straw's script u subbed 4 honor, maybe u confused? 2 minutes ago, Archer said: Edit: "this is a QF that can take a toll on the Village due to Violation" -Kas Technically I can't be violated if I don't vote so at least one village will be okay 49 minutes ago, JNV said: r u srsly defending w/ this u surrender thread & vote control 2 elims - i s2g u urself have said this b4 wrt why impt 2 vote early living doesnt matter if we let elims cntrl & whittle who u gonna call who u gonna defend as living vil w/ when vils dropping left right centre to vig kill, NK, inactivity kill, no vote kill, violation this is 10 player game u guess 2-3 elim i agree but how can u srsly be a villager & justify appearing vil >>>> actually voting & applying pressure like ffs i get my position can be argued to be performative as well since we get into voting meta fights a lot but i seriously don't understand how v!Archer can defend this position at all and not feel remotely uneasy about what it entails part of me thinks too obv evil clearly baiting part of me thinks tt my criteria for if E!Archer is: "Would E!Kas do it? If no, E!Archer totally heckin' would." >> ...RIP 140 characters i tried ok >> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 Archer(2): Xino, Kas Turtle(1): Ash Wiz(2): Turtle, Bookwyrm Shining(2): Wiz, Shining Kas(1): TUN TUN(1): JNV Everyone be voting but Archer. Who’d people make their PMs with? I be curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ashbringer said: Archer(2): Xino, Kas Turtle(1): Ash Wiz(2): Turtle, Bookwyrm Shining(2): Wiz, Shining Kas(1): TUN TUN(1): JNV Everyone be voting but Archer. Who’d people make their PMs with? I be curious. i love the smell of napalm three way ties in the morning made pm w/ u Edited November 8, 2022 by Kasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 55 minutes ago, Kasimir said: made pm w/ u aww mine be w/ wiz made after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 rn: Spoiler kinda negotiable but willing 2 xplain but pls @ b/c 140 chars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Order he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 19 minutes ago, Kasimir said: rn: Hide contents kinda negotiable but willing 2 xplain but pls @ b/c 140 chars Crct, I da Slim Shady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 Fun fact, PMs last forever. This is good because I don't think xino will get back to me this round I'd like to add when did make the PM to the discussion question Just now, The Unknown Novel said: Crct, I da Slim...y Ah, that green ghost Do you think Kas is overreacting to my plan, TUN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Archer said: Do you think Kas is overreacting to my plan, TUN? Right, we screw the 140 characters today I said it in the tweet limit. I'm saying it again. This is a QF. This is a fast-paced game. Suppose 3 Elims - C1 10 -> C2 8 -> C3 6 -> C4 4 -> C5 2 LOSE. We lose in four cycles. Since the wincon is parity rather than outnumbering, we lose in four cycles as well in a 2 Elim team world. I welcome if others have different comp speculations, but I'm using the numbers both of us agree on. This excludes: non-voting deaths (congratulations, Archer, in return for a marginal Village read, you've decided to give us a 40% chance of your death, if you really are Village), inactivity deaths (no one for now, hopefully this continues), knife miskills, and Violation deaths. When we make projections, we always work from the worst case scenario. That way, successful protects and roleblocks, if the Village has any, are a bonus. And I'm not remotely confident that every single voter on an Elim is going to be protected with silver dust, meaning they are largely guaranteed a kill when we vote them down. It's not gonna stop me. The vote is our power and we gotta do it. But the sobering numbers have to be at the back of our mind, because the closer we get to lylo, the more the free villager kill is gonna hurt. Simple example: if we're 4-3, voting down an Elim doesn't matter. They kill someone, we vote one of them down, and lose a Villager. 2-2, we lose. That's pretty damned scary either way you look at it, especially since items are lost when players die. This means we functionally lose as soon as we are one Villager more than them unless we happen to have a vig who gets lucky (kills and doesn't die to the 50% chance!) or a lucky protect. You yourself and other players have emphasised previously that refusing to vote or refusing to vote fruitfully C1 hands lynch control to the Elims. Yet here you are willing to sit back during a cycle with no particular urgency, at least one vanity vote ( @Shining Silhouette ) , far too many poke votes that just sat there ( @Turtle) , Harmony only knows what @The Bookwyrm's vote is doing, @The Wandering Wizard seems to have taken the throttle off, and a three way tie, all for the sake of a marginal Village read during the next cycle, where presumably, having offered the Elims a free tempo, and not having a vote or activity track record for the previous cycle, you will finally proceed to leverage on it. How is that supposed to be particularly helpful or Village? You can contend you did the same in QF59. I will happily agree. QF59 was also a game with 15 players, no extra death rules, and anonymous voting, which blunted the effect of your non-voting. Losing tempo to the Elims was functionally less bad in QF59. You can contend you currently just risk a 40% chance of dying. My challenge then is: If 40% is sufficiently low, why shouldn't I believe E!Archer is also willing to risk this? For one, polar bear (MR56 - a bold lie from E!Archer, for our newer players, that thread consensus was that Archer would've had to be suicidal to have made as an Elim just for thread trust. Ha bloody ha.) I dislike the attitude that you need a provisional Village read from this in order to be able to do Village things. You shouldn't be committing to do anti-Village things and getting provisional Village reads off the fact that you don't care about self-pres, and then decide to do Village things. That reads more performative, and more Elim to me. Even if I do not vote you and commit to voting TUN, a world in which V!you dies from non-voting, and the exe takes place, and the NK hits someone, is a world which is a lot more painful for us. Suppose, for the sake of argument, we have two main scenarios: World A: V!Archer dies, ML, NK 10 -> 7 -> 5 -> 3 LOSE If you think there is a three member Elim team, we lose in three cycles in this world. This should be alarming! World B: V!Archer dies, Elim lynched, NK 10 -> 6 -> 4 -> 2 LOSE Here is the nasty part. We lose in three cycles in this world as well! Because if an Elim gets voted out, a Villager is very likely to die via Violation. Either way you slice it, you are pushing for a Village read for yourself and deciding that letting the Elims potentially win in three cycles is acceptable. Yeah, no, that is kayana to me. Don't like my view? Think that's an E!Kas push? Join TUN and lynch me, go ahead. The lynch matters, and you know better. Get your feet wet in my blood. From where I'm at, I'm getting a strong negative read off TUN insofar as I believe he's using the same strategy, or at least the same sort of deflection as he did in both LG87 and LG90. I'm also willing to lynch Archer because I can't see what he is doing as coming from V!Archer at all. I am willing to consider Turtle partly on gut, partly on activity, and partly disliking Turtle just showing up and throwing a vote, promising more, and vanishing subsequently. Ok nevermind that's activity profile, but still. I am not currently willing to lynch Wiz for reasons already mentioned, and sort of okay with JNV and Ash for now, though I expect JNV's change of style to mean I need to adjust when reading JNV, and Ash feels a bit helpful for the moment, though I don't quite feel so good about it. Anyone else is functionally in a "I don't care if you get lynched/willing to lynch" box. Go two ways about Shining - I like that willingness to die, but don't feel it is remotely helpful, either. I am not fully, dead sold on E!Archer. I think it's entirely possible I'm making a 'you suck' push when Archer is actually Village with a kayana plan. But that judgement is entirely based off the fact that 40% chance of death is kind of nuts to me as an Elim, but the fact that Archer is actively willing to accept this already indicates that on some level of his calculus, this is an acceptabe risk. The pragmatic part of me kind of thinks as well that if Archer wants to commit to this, then the best harm minimisation I can go for is to commit to lynch him. It's either E!Archer, or if it's V!Archer, From my perspective, I'm leaning E!Archer but am not fully sold yet. But suppose it is V!Archer - if I do commit to his train, I don't have to worry about World A or World B obtaining as well. But then there's the ocean of poke and vanity votes which are just as much hell to deal with, only they entail more Village and Evil warm bodies. This is where I'm at, anyway. Edited to add: Right, yes, I made the PM at 0306hrs. About an hour+ after the thread took off. Rollovers are at a fun 0200hrs for me. Edited November 8, 2022 by Kasimir 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 Do people have any idea how many Elims there might be? 2? 3? I be wondering who to go for too. Wiz and Kas posted the same correction within a minute of each other, and within a few minutes of the thread going up. Granted GM PMs went out afore the thread, but still. I do not think those two would both bite for it. up up. Turtle placed a poke on Wiz, first player to post. down. TUN soft elim claim. down. JNV and Bookwyrm both placed votes to self-pres but with little reason behind them. JNV at least added RP. Archer claims they'll take the 40% chance. Could be gambit. Archer likes gambits. Could be for trust. Archer likes trust. Don't trust Archer. Xino online to see thread + get PM, doesn't post until much later. Turtle did too but posted right after me. Turtle vote Wiz though. Wiz Kas Ash <-no particular order Shining Xino Turtle JNV Archer Bookwyrm TUN What about Shining? Many speaks. Asks why Kas trust Wiz. Kas trust Wiz. Shining unvote Wiz. Interesting to me. Shining votes self. Also interesting. Shining known to change votes quickly sometimes. Could kill Bookwyrm. Evade. TUN draws eyes but my eyes are drawn the same as always. Still like Turtle as a vote. Xino could be better. But Xino was last time and went poorly last time. If no one live to look at Archer C2 - WizKasAsh - then look at Archer. Strange one Archer. I speak this way now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Ashbringer said: Do people have any idea how many Elims there might be? 2? 3? No way to tell right now. 10's an awkward number for a GM to balance in a regular game - see QF54, which had twelve players, and honestly going Archer-Araris-Szeth was probably still a bit OP and I regret that decision. Village suffered from inactivity and filter losses. This game has: win at parity (+ for Elims), protection from kills (+ for Village), kills (null because you have a 50% chance of dying but slightly Elim skewed IMO due to parity wincon), protection from exe autokill (null/slight + for Village because in the end, it still channels the kill to another unprotected Villager and an Elim might have this as well, allowing bussing), roleblock (looks solidly + for Village but can allow Elims to penetrate protects.) And items die with players. Overall, I consider this a steeper curve for the Village to climb than the Elims, but the ability to equip some Village players with silver dust and tents should balance this out a bit. So two real possibilities: A. 2 Elim Team IMO this world would probably have the Elims be a bit buffed because a single Elim death means the survivor has to struggle to try to win as a solo Elim. This could be in the form of roles, or selecting a stronger team. FWIW, I can tell you there is no Karcher, Ashimir, KNV, Kilho etcetera team this game B. 3 Elim Team Buff would be Village side, because of what I outlined about wins. Expect higher prevalence of tents, silver dust. Maybe not too much, but just enough to give the Village a tiny bit of potential survivability. I might as well come out and say it: lean against this world because I lack silver dust and am prepared to pay for an Elim lynch with my life if necessary. This isn't a strong argument against the three team world since maybe three players with silver dust would do fine. But even then, a Villager death for an Elim death, and an unavoidable one, mind, would be more or less guaranteed. As I've explained, this fundamental exchange makes it, in my eyes, a little rough on the Village no matter what since losing extra Villagers in such a small group-size boots us closer to lylo. (Which, recall, occurs when n(V) - n(E) <= 2.) For this reason, I'm personally inclined to suspect a two player team. But it really doesn't matter because you always play and plan for the worst case scenario, hence the three member team. Edited to add: For the benefit of the mixed group here - yes, you can revise your team projections once you know more, i.e. have closer to full sight of the distro, but at early stages, no. 54 minutes ago, Ashbringer said: Still like Turtle as a vote. ? Edited November 8, 2022 by Kasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wandering Wizard he/him Posted November 8, 2022 Report Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Kasimir said: It's not gonna stop me. The vote is our power and we gotta do it. But the sobering numbers have to be at the back of our mind, because the closer we get to lylo, the more the free villager kill is gonna hurt. Simple example: if we're 4-3, voting down an Elim doesn't matter. They kill someone, we vote one of them down, and lose a Villager. 2-2, we lose. That's pretty damned scary either way you look at it, especially since items are lost when players die. This means we functionally lose as soon as we are one Villager more than them unless we happen to have a vig who gets lucky (kills and doesn't die to the 50% chance!) or a lucky protect. Doth not the rules sayest, 'thy failure to slay thine enemy, shall be thy doom.' 4 hours ago, Kasimir said: You yourself and other players have emphasised previously that refusing to vote or refusing to vote fruitfully C1 hands lynch control to the Elims. Yet here you are willing to sit back during a cycle with no particular urgency, at least one vanity vote ( @Shining Silhouette ) , far too many poke votes that just sat there ( @Turtle) , Harmony only knows what @The Bookwyrm's vote is doing, @The Wandering Wizard seems to have taken the throttle off, and a three way tie, all for the sake of a marginal Village read during the next cycle, where presumably, having offered the Elims a free tempo, and not having a vote or activity track record for the previous cycle, you will finally proceed to leverage on it. How is that supposed to be particularly helpful or Village? I felt like crem yesterday, but now I have at least enough energy to try to help. Shining Spoiler Forsooth my Kas PM, wast made at 1257hrs, yesterday. Thy friends lie in Kas, Ash, and possibly JNV/Bookwyrm Thy servants lie in Shining and Xino I beseech thee to see the knaves, Archer, TUN, and Turtle Edit: I speak with bad shakesperean english now Edited November 8, 2022 by The Wandering Wizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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