Rashek's Manipulation by Ruin

[Trusk'our he/him]

I recall reading in the Mistborn books that Rashek was manipulated over time by Ruin, causing him to commit worse and worse atrocities. However, he didn't have any Hemalurgic spikes to allow for manipulation, and he didn't seem to be completely unstable, so that made me think about how he could be manipulated by Ruin then.

It is my theory then, that Ruin was able to manipulate him because Rashek needed to burn large amounts of Atium to stay alive, Connecting him to Ruin by suffusing himself with the Shard's essence.

That's my idea, anyway.

[HSuperLee he/him]

Its also stated that Ruin can talk to the insane. Rashek definitely was losing his grip on reality as atium is not a great form of immortality. It definitely wasn't as severe of manipulation as it could have been, but it probably crept up on Rashek due to him becoming more and more open to it as the years passed.

[NerdyAarakocra They/Them]

In addition, Rashek was near the Well of Ascension for a long period of time. That might factor into it.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Weren't his Atium Bands also Hemalurgic Spikes?

I'm pretty sure that he did that to ensure that so his Metalminds couldn't be Pushed and also couldn't be simply yanked off of him.

Not sure why he'd even consider Spiking himself with any kind of Spike in the first place, especially since he knew Ruin could manipulate people with Spikes, so I guess that 'Atium Insanity' theory could have some merit.

Edited November 4, 2022 by JustQuestin2004

[HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose?]

4 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Weren't his Atium Bands also Hemalurgic Spikes?

I'm pretty sure that he did that to ensure that so his Metalminds couldn't be Pushed and also couldn't be simply yanked off of him.

Not sure why he'd even consider Spiking himself with any kind of Spike in the first place, especially since he knew Ruin could manipulate people with Spikes, so I guess that 'Atium Insanity' theory could have some merit.

They pierced his skin, placing them withing a spiritweb, but I think brandon has made it clear that they were not hemalurgically infused.

[+robardin he/him]

I think Ruin could speak to Rashek even without any hemalurgic spikes in him (which detail, BTW, has changed since the original intended canon, but there’s enough wiggle room) simply because Rashek had Ascended and was a Sliver of the Shard of Preservation.

Ruin can speak to both Kelsier and Vin after their Ascension, “peer to peer” if you will, so it would be likely that he could communicate with anybody whose soul had been stretched by holding a Shard for some period of time - as Kelsier notes in Mistborn: Secret History, Rashek “didn’t have to go” Beyond after dying, and “the final death could not take him unless he wanted it to”, after holding Preservation.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Ok I've looked at the Arcanum and found this:

Spoiler

Questioner

Why in the world would the Lord Ruler spike himself?

Brandon Sanderson

...Because he needed to give himself the powers that he didn't have. He could have done it like-- gained the knowledge but the power was gone so fast he actually needed to-- Well no no no, the spikes, the spikes, the spikes. So, it doesn't matter if he was spiked because he was hiding the metals inside himself so people couldn't Push or Pull on them. That's the real reason he was doing that. Does that make sense?

Questioner

No.

Brandon Sanderson

Metal that's inside of him--

Questioner

Ruin influenced him, what did the spiking do?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, the metals that were stuck through him were so people couldn’t Push or Pull on them. If they were outside his body people would know he was a Feruchemist. Which is the very thing he was-- so he would stick the metals inside of himself to hide them.

Questioner

And he did that as Hemalurgic spikes?

Brandon Sanderson

I'd have to go back and look because-- Lord Ruler is he spiked or has he just got--

Isaac Stewart

I thought he was... spiked but I can't remem--

Brandon Sanderson

You're asking something that I wrote 12 years ago.

Isaac Stewart

Peter, was the Lord Ruler spiked?

Brandon Sanderson

Lord Ruler was spiked, right?  Or is it just--

Peter Ahlstrom

I don't think so.

Brandon Sanderson

--piereced with metalminds, right? They're not actual spikes, just metalminds.

And I want to ask the Sharders on there [the recorder] about that Lord Ruler question, because I didn’t think he was spiked but--

Isaac Stewart

I think I recall him having the bands with spikes in them?

 

Footnote: Brandon has previously stated that the Lord Ruler did in fact have Hemalurgic spikes.

So Rashek may or may not have been Spiked with Hemalurgic Spikes, but apparently they also could have been just regular Metalminds pierced into his skin to hide them. So I don't know what to think.

But another WOB I found but can no longer find for some dumb reason is that Shards can apparently freely talk to Slivers, 'Peer-to-Peer' was the descriptor of this.

So Ruin might not have needed Rashek to Spike himself to drive him crazy.

[cometaryorbit]

I think Rashek, centuries in, was mentally destabilized by immortality enough to allow Ruin to talk to him.

It's also not clear whether he was spiked or not, WoBs seem to go both ways on that one. There's also a WoB suggesting just being pierced by Invested metal could have Hemalurgy-like effects. Also, his bracers were *atium*. Being pierced by atium might let Ruin in even if it's not actually Hemalurgy.

[Treamayne]

18 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

It's also not clear whether he was spiked or not, WoBs seem to go both ways on that one. There's also a WoB suggesting just being pierced by Invested metal could have Hemalurgy-like effects. Also, his bracers were *atium*. Being pierced by atium might let Ruin in even if it's not actually Hemalurgy.

I, too, always thought "anyone pierced by metal" implied that the metal wasn't just Hemalurgy, but any invested metal piercing an individual.

Also consider that Kelsier was able to communicate with Spook more easily than others (post Catacendre) because of Connection. He was able to influence Spook into making an earring of a former Hemalurgic spike to facilitate the communication - but the influence was there before the spike. To me, this implies that Rashek's Connection to Ruin's prison would also facilitate some level of communication/influence by Ruin.

It might not be just one reason - it could be multiple small reasons, each slightly increasing Ruin's ability to influence Rashek.

Edit:

Also, consider the madman in SoS that Bleeder spoke to and convinced to try shooting the Governor and also convinced to hide a metal coin inside his arm. (SoS Ch 8 and 9)

Spoiler

Quote

“She said you’d come talk to me,” Rian said softly.

“She?” Waxillium said.

“God.”

“Harmony?”

“No. She said I had to kill the governor. Had to attack him. I tried not to listen.…”

Waxillium narrowed his eyes. “You met her? What did she look like? What face was she wearing?”

“You can’t save him,” Rian whispered. “She’s going to kill him. She promised me freedom, but here I am, bound. Oh, Ruin.” He took a deep breath. “There is something for you. In my arm.”

“In your…” Waxillium actually seemed disturbed. 

Quote

 Our captive had a piercing on some skin in his chest. After we removed that, he calmed. But he still won’t talk.

 

• We don't know if what Bleeder was doing was similar;
  • but, if it is, why would she waste a hemelurgic spike on a pawn meant to get captured?
• There was nothing about descibing it as an unknown metal or alloy, so I doubt it was Trellium.
• So, if that implies that any metal (or invested metal - not specifically hemalurgy) allows the conduit for communication/influence then
  • that supports the idea that Rashek's metalminds may have been a factor in Ruin's influence
  • and likely one Rashek dismissed by thinking/being convinced it didn't matter because it wasn't hemalurgic

Edited November 10, 2022 by Treamayne
SoS