Wax era 2 Allomancer

[Blue-phoenix186]

Is wax a stronger allomancer than normal his ancestors our Breeze and allrianne Who are both full nobles so his blood is a little bit less diluted than normal right so maybe he’s a little bit stronger than a regular coin shot not much but just enough to give him a little bit of a edge when he’s fighting what do you guys think ?

[Mr. Misting he/him]

27 minutes ago, Blue-phoenix186 said:

Is wax a stronger allomancer than normal his ancestors our Breeze and allrianne Who are both full nobles so his blood is a little bit less diluted than normal right so maybe he’s a little bit stronger than a regular coin shot not much but just enough to give him a little bit of a edge when he’s fighting what do you guys think ?

Yes, Wax is descended from Breeze and Alllrianne but I don't think that means a lot. The bloodlines would still have been diluted a ton from skaa blood.

Sure, Wax might have strong coinshot abilities but that could just be the natural variance in allomantic power. I don't think you could really point to Wax's heritage for his strong allomancy. Yes Wax is related to full nobles but so are most current metalborn. Wax might be generally stronger from noble blood, but not specifically strong.

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, Blue-phoenix186 said:

Is wax a stronger allomancer than normal his ancestors our Breeze and Allrianne Who are both full nobles so his blood is a little bit less diluted than normal right so maybe he’s a little bit stronger than a regular coin shot not much but just enough to give him a little bit of a edge when he’s fighting what do you guys think ?

Wax's strength in Allomancy mostly comes from being a crasher and using his Skimming to manipulate his steel pushes. He is also extremely skilled with manipulating both (so it's more about finesse than raw strength) and may be on the path to being a Steel Savant (WoB - Annotations)

Spoiler

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

For these books, I wanted to show people who had one or two powers, instead of sixteen, and show how specialization can achieve some incredible results. Because of that, I intentionally held back in the first trilogy in letting Vin do a few things. (Note how much better Zane was with minute steelpushes and ironpulls than she was.) Vin was incredibly skilled, but because she had so many powers to work with, she didn't home in as much on any one of them. Things like Wax's steel bubble are tricks I wanted to save for people like Wax. (He's what we’d call in the Mistborn world a steel savant, so capable with his metal—and having burned it so long, for so many years—that he's got an instinctive ability with it that lets him be very precise.)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)

And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.

Both quotes edited, links to full Arcanum entry above

As you can see from the Annotation, BS was implying that Wax was (or was becoming) a Savant, but the WoB since then shows that he is rethinking that stance.

6 hours ago, Mr. Misting said:

The bloodlines would still have been diluted a ton from skaa blood.

This shouldn't be a factor. Neither Breeze nor Allrianne had Skaa blood, and after the Catacendre there was no longer any difference since Sazed reversed the changes between Skaa and Noble.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Treamayne

[offer]

43 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

 

This shouldn't be a factor. Neither Breeze nor Allrianne had Skaa blood, and after the Catacendre there was no longer any difference since Sazed reversed the changes between Skaa and Noble.

Sazed reversed the divernces but the skaa still dodn`t have "allomancy genes". The original introduction of allomancy to the nobles genes pool was not by the changes Rashek did, but by the beads of Lerasium he gave them. 

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, offer said:

Sazed reversed the divergences but the skaa still dodn`t have "allomancy genes". The original introduction of allomancy to the nobles genes pool was not by the changes Rashek did, but by the beads of Lerasium he gave them. 

True, but the gene was also present in the general populace before Rashek's meddling and, since Sazed returned everybody to the state before Rashek's tampering, presumably after the Catacendre. Alendi was a Seeker before anybody found or used Lerasium. . . 

Noble blood could likely still show a higher percentage, but should no longer be a requirement for a Misting (and was never a factor for being a Ferring). 

My ponit was simply that the qty of noble blood after this much time should not be a major factor to Wax's abilities (which seem to me to be much closer tied to being a Crasher - and using his abilitied so much). Also note that Shan did not seem to be appreciably stronger than Vin despite have a full Noble pedifree to Vin's half-skaa heritage. 

[offer]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

True, but the gene was also present in the general populace before Rashek's meddling and, since Sazed returned everybody to the state before Rashek's tampering, presumably after the Catacendre. Alendi was a Seeker before anybody found or used Lerasium. . . 

Noble blood could likely still show a higher percentage, but should no longer be a requirement for a Misting (and was never a factor for being a Ferring). 

My ponit was simply that the qty of noble blood after this much time should not be a major factor to Wax's abilities (which seem to me to be much closer tied to being a Crasher - and using his abilitied so much). Also note that Shan did not seem to be appreciably stronger than Vin despite have a full Noble pedifree to Vin's half-skaa heritage. 

The genes were very rare before Rashek`s accession and most of those those genes in modern Scadrial comes from the Lerasium beads. 

We also know that the characters believe that they can predict (not 100%, but with some success chance) whose children will be allomancers because we see it with the kidnapped women.

 

However, I don`t think that Wax has "stronger" lineage than most other nobles (or even a lot of non-nobles). We know that 2 of his ancestors where allomancers but they are just 2 ancestors about 10 generations ago  - they would make only a small influence on his genetics (and "spiritual genetics"). 

[Treamayne]

8 minutes ago, offer said:

We also know that the characters believe that they can predict (not 100%, but with some success chance) whose children will be allomancers because we see it with the kidnapped women.

Well, to be fair the genetics in AoL was about lineage to Spook (Lord Mistborn) which puts the "lerasium" heritage only 300 yrs past, not 1300 yrs. . . probably a statistically significant difference. Granted Spook became Mistborn the same way Rashek did (directly from the power of Preservation, without a Lerasium bead - but I doubt the power and it's physical representation differ from an sDNA perspective).

[Returned]

25 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Well, to be fair the genetics in AoL was about lineage to Spook (Lord Mistborn) which puts the "lerasium" heritage only 300 yrs past, not 1300 yrs. . . probably a statistically significant difference. Granted Spook became Mistborn the same way Rashek did (directly from the power of Preservation, without a Lerasium bead - but I doubt the power and it's physical representation differ from an sDNA perspective).

And Spook wasn't a Lerasium-level Allomancer, but just a regular one for his time. I imagine the kidnappers' focus on Spook's descendants is mostly because he was so prolific in producing children (more people are probably descended from him than from other known Allomancers among the Founders) and because of the mystical cachet of his being Mistborn.

[Treamayne]

23 minutes ago, Returned said:

And Spook wasn't a Lerasium-level Allomancer, but just a regular one for his time.

Danke. Wasn't aware that Spook wasn't Eland-esque. I always though AoL was about his lineage having a higher proportion of mistings because of the way he became Mistborn.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Treamayne

[Isilel]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

I always though AoL was about his lineage having a higher proportion of mistings because of the way he became Mistborn.

It probably has, because _any_ Mistborn would have provided stronger allomantic heritage to their offspring than any Mistings. 

But let's not forget that Wax's mother was a Terriswoman and that neither his uncle nor his sister were allomancers. There was also no hint that Wax's father had been one. So, it isn't like being descended from Breeze and Alliandre between 10 and 15 generations back guaranteed anything re: allomantic talents.

In fact even back during FE being a noble didn't ensure having allomancy, though, of course some who supposedly lacked it may just have been Mistings of as yet unknown metals.

[cometaryorbit]

7 hours ago, Treamayne said:

This shouldn't be a factor. Neither Breeze nor Allrianne had Skaa blood, and after the Catacendre there was no longer any difference since Sazed reversed the changes between Skaa and Noble.

Allrianne isn't half-skaa or anything, but Lord Cett does specifically say the Cett family has very few Allomancers due to (farther back in the past) skaa ancestry - Allrianne's the first in centuries iirc.

4 hours ago, Treamayne said:

True, but the gene was also present in the general populace before Rashek's meddling and, since Sazed returned everybody to the state before Rashek's tampering, presumably after the Catacendre. Alendi was a Seeker before anybody found or used Lerasium. . .

Alendi and others of his time were Mist-snapped. "Allomancy came with the mists"; it wasn't known before Alendi's time - while the potential existed in Scadrian humanity, if there were any active Allomancers before the events of Alendi's time, it was so rare it was unknown.

[Treamayne]

1 minute ago, cometaryorbit said:

Alendi and others of his time were Mist-snapped. "Allomancy came with the mists"; it wasn't known before Alendi's time - while the potential existed in Scadrian humanity, if there were any active Allomancers before the events of Alendi's time, it was so rare it was unknown.

While I concur Mistings were rare pre-Rashek; thanks to his media spin and history purge we can only guess at how rare.More likely, since it was poorly understood, the mist-snapped of Alendi's time simply never knew they could be a Misting.

[cometaryorbit]

Just now, Treamayne said:

While I concur Mistings were rare pre-Rashek; thanks to his media spin and history purge we can only guess at how rare.More likely, since it was poorly understood, the mist-snapped of Alendi's time simply never knew they could be a Misting.

Sure but there's a difference between Alendi-era (when Mist Snapping was definitely occurring and there were definitely Mistings) and before that, before the Deepness. I am not sure there were any Mistings before the mist started Snapping people in preparation for the Well's filling.

(There likely were 1024 years before, in the previous cycle, but those were weak Mistings so they wouldn't pass on Allomancy for very long. It was likely forgotten by Alendi's time.)

[Treamayne]

9 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Sure but there's a difference between Alendi-era (when Mist Snapping was definitely occurring and there were definitely Mistings) and before that, before the Deepness. I am not sure there were any Mistings before the mist started Snapping people in preparation for the Well's filling.

(There likely were 1024 years before, in the previous cycle, but those were weak Mistings so they wouldn't pass on Allomancy for very long. It was likely forgotten by Alendi's time.)

Why would you think they were weaker? There's no evidence I know of that says the Mist-Snapped were weaker than other Mistings. Granted, without an understanding of Allomantically correct alloy ratios and metal purity; as well as lack of understanding of the powers themselves they would undoubtedly be less capable and effective Allomancers.

[cometaryorbit]

1 minute ago, Treamayne said:

Why would you think they were weaker? There's no evidence I know of that says the Mist-Snapped were weaker than other Mistings. Granted, without an understanding of Allomantically correct alloy ratios and metal purity; as well as lack of understanding of the powers themselves they would undoubtedly be less capable and effective Allomancers.

It's impossible to know for sure - Allomantic strength variance is normally pretty small and we dont see much of non-atium mistings snapped by the Mists - but I think the Mists are pushing below threshold people just barely over the threshold, so they're minimal strength.