New world speculation

[bmcclure7]

7 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Not really:

Now, you could interpret that like the geometry of Shadesmar itself is changing.

But multiple gods want you dead. And Roshar is one of those worlds. War is just the simplest explanation and you need multiple gods.

You're taking that out of context, You go back He explains that he needs to reach "them"  The them in the conversation is specifically  Is potential allies against autonomy.  She is his main concern he never mentions odium. 

 

 That right there seems to indicate that it's not odium but a lot of local gods, Causing problems. If odium was invaded why did he just say odium wants us dead? 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

13 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

You're taking that out of context, You go back He explains that he needs to reach "them"  The them in the conversation is specifically  Is potential allies against autonomy.  She is his main concern he never mentions odium.

They are facing two related but distinct problems

1. Autonomy is attacking so they need allies
2. Something is wrong in Shadesmar

Yes, they need allies and more allomancers. But the obvious way to reach allies is through Shadesmar. As Sazed states that, Kelsier objects. The first issues is obviously to be explained with Autonomy. The second isn't. If this were also Autonomy's doing, all the planets whose access she is blocking would be allies.

[bmcclure7]

11 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

They are facing two related but distinct problems

1. Autonomy is attacking so they need allies
2. Something is wrong in Shadesmar

Yes, they need allies and more allomancers. But the obvious way to reach allies is through Shadesmar. As Sazed states that, Kelsier objects. The first issues is obviously to be explained with Autonomy. The second isn't. If this were also Autonomy's doing, all the planets whose access she is blocking would be allies.

 Agreed, but to jump and say that it's all odium doing is a little bit of a leap. 

[Eternal Khol he/him]

On 11/20/2022 at 5:00 AM, bmcclure7 said:

The epilogue seems to imply that  Regardless of whether they live on a shard world or not, the sho del  Are currently in the service of a shard  Or at least something shard like.

Hmm, i didnt get that vibe.

All we got was a description of them and that they are goods guides due to having "a direct line to their gods"

We dont know that they serve these "gods" just that they have a Conmection to them

Edited November 22, 2022 by Eternal Khol

[Rorzikel]

1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

Hmm, i didnt get that vibe.

All we got was a description of them and that they are goods guides due to having "a direct line to their gods"

We dont know that they serve these "gods" just that they have a Conmection to them

From the publically available Dragonsteel chapters we know that in that draft the Sho Del's gods were dragons.

[kenod]

Yeah, given that Sho Del predate the Shattering, their gods are not likely to be shards, but something that existed together with Adonalsium. It might also be related to Fain, but that's pure speculation on my part with no grounding in WoBs.

[Rorzikel]

24 minutes ago, kenod said:

Yeah, given that Sho Del predate the Shattering, their gods are not likely to be shards, but something that existed together with Adonalsium. It might also be related to Fain, but that's pure speculation on my part with no grounding in WoBs.

Yeah. Personally, I'd like for it not to be the Shards, it fills out the worldbuilding more than the only two options for Cosmere religions are either they were fake/unprovable or were based on the Shards themselves/their direct servants. Part of the reason I like the new Aether lore as well. There's so much crazy stuff possible in universe, seems a shame for it all to be the same sixteen entities.

[Maximus]

Based on the name, Mythos seems reminiscent of the spren cities in Shadesmar. Probably not in the Rosharan system or we would have heard of it before, and therefore probably not inhabited by spren but something spren-like, some natives of the cognitive realm. 

 

[Eternal Khol he/him]

19 hours ago, Rorzikel said:

From the publically available Dragonsteel chapters we know that in that draft the Sho Del's gods were dragons.

Ok, but Im confused at how that info from the uncanonical work means that the Sho Del, in the current canon Cosmere, are in the service of anybody. You can have a god and not be in their service.

 

p.s. I kinda hope it is still the Dragons that are their "gods". Theyre really fascinating and if you think about it, I feel like the Dragons should be some of the most knowledable beings about pre-shattering lore and mechanics(probably post shattering too) and that, imo, they should be way more important in the Cosmere.

I mean, they are functionally immortal and the very first one(s) Ado created could very well still be out there. Also, i just feel that, given theyre status, they should have had a pretty big part to play in some events before/leading up to the shattering, like they were obvi too knowlegable and maybe messed something up in the past(maybe they made Fain?) and thats why they decided not to intervene or share knowledge(Frost in both Dragonsteel Prime and Stormlight Epigraphs)

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Eternal Khol

[Rorzikel]

3 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

Ok, but Im confused at how that info from the uncanonical work means that the Sho Del, in the current canon Cosmere, are in the service of anybody. You can have a god and not be in their service.

 

I might have misread what you meant to say unless your edit took something out. Was more trying to add information about who those gods might be based on early concepts of Yolen than contradict the service part.

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

10 hours ago, Maximus said:

Based on the name, Mythos seems reminiscent of the spren cities in Shadesmar. Probably not in the Rosharan system or we would have heard of it before, and therefore probably not inhabited by spren but something spren-like, some natives of the cognitive realm. 

 

I like this idea as well, it does sound like a place name in the Cognitive realm in that Mythos is like a concept or piece of culture - very cognitive.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

5 hours ago, Rorzikel said:

I might have misread what you meant to say unless your edit took something out. Was more trying to add information about who those gods might be based on early concepts of Yolen than contradict the service part.

My bad, i though i was replying to someone else. Had both of us backwards.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 22.11.2022 at 9:31 PM, bmcclure7 said:

 Agreed, but to jump and say that it's all odium doing is a little bit of a leap. 

True, the problem is that you need to leap. Assuming two independent threats, who but Odium is a likely second threat given the temporal proximity?

[bmcclure7]

16 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

True, the problem is that you need to leap. Assuming two independent threats, who but Odium is a likely second threat given the temporal proximity?

  One of them perhaps I think they're probably several. 

[Prince Du Pain]

On 11/18/2022 at 7:42 PM, Dreamwa1ker said:

So Kelsier name-dropped a new place (planet?) in the Lost Metal in his epilogue: Mythos. It's pure speculation at this point as we don't have much but wanted to make a space for theories here.

So what we can establish about Mythos from this very short exchange:

1. Not Moonlight’s world (we know this anyway because we know Moonlight’s world so this just confirms Mythos is not some other nickname for it)

2. Not aether planet

3. Implied it may be reached by Shadesmar (Sazed's reply is about using Shadesmar to reach out)

4. Potential allies there, presumably with some sort of power/Investiture. But Kelsier seemed to suggest it off hand as if it would be more of a stretch than Moonlight’s world or aether land. Unclear if this is due to it being a harder place to reach or that inhabitants might be more hostile or less willing allies.

So what do you think/want it to be?

My current take: simply because of the name, I would love this to be Valor's planet. Mythos just sounds like a place full of badass Spartan warriors or something like 300. Or combo of Spartans and Vikings. A land of mythical warriors could definitely be powerful allies and I also could see that if "Valor" is what is revered there they may only ally themselves with you under certain circumstances or could be risky (don't tick them off and make them your enemy).

A land with Vikings and perhaps... Cthulu???

Maybe Brandon is working in some of his Bad Story Ideas from his podcast XD

[stonehand]

On 11/18/2022 at 6:42 PM, Dreamwa1ker said:

I would love this to be Valor's planet. Mythos just sounds like a place full of badass Spartan warriors or something like 300. Or combo of Spartans and Vikings.

I've noticed a pattern of Brandon's Bad Story Ideas from the Intentionally Blank podcast showing up years later in his books, and one very popular BSI he's had was ancient vikings encountering and battling Cthulu. I'm probably grasping at straws here, but Holy Hell I'd love to read that book.

Edit: I'm imagining a magic system where no one really has any specific powers per se, but being valorous causes you to gather investiture and make you better at whatever you're already doing. A valorous shipwright becomes better at ship building, a valorous warrior becomes better at fighitng, etc. This would justify characters doing crazy cinematic fighting stuff in battles like we see in media such as 300.

Edited December 2, 2022 by stonehand

[lacrossedeamon]

11 hours ago, stonehand said:

Edit: I'm imagining a magic system where no one really has any specific powers per se, but being valorous causes you to gather investiture and make you better at whatever you're already doing. A valorous shipwright becomes better at ship building, a valorous warrior becomes better at fighitng, etc. This would justify characters doing crazy cinematic fighting stuff in battles like we see in media such as 300.

Make "Charles Atlas superpowers" an actual magic system.

[stonehand]

On 12/2/2022 at 8:31 PM, lacrossedeamon said:

Make "Charles Atlas superpowers" an actual magic system

Yes! This exactly! Just the most outlandish, over-the-top, Bollywood style action stuff, and the in-universe justification is a mix of "they are very valorous" and "it worked because they knew it would." Man it would be fun to read.

[lacrossedeamon]

19 hours ago, stonehand said:

Yes! This exactly! Just the most outlandish, over-the-top, Bollywood style action stuff, and the in-universe justification is a mix of "they are very valorous" and "it worked because they knew it would." Man it would be fun to read.

Throw in a bit of WH40K Orks' WAAAGH!