Limits of Awakening

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

Please allow me a bit of story time before I get into the meat of my question here.  

I live in a basin.  A very cold and very hot basin.  Next week we won't break 0 degrees F and we have a day that is pushing -30.  This is an extreme for the humans in my life and is hard.  In the summer we have weeks above 100 and that is an extreme for the livestock and animals in my life it is hard.  

Obviously F brass is the answer for me and if I could get ahold of some medallions for the others it would be an answer as well.  But my question is not about what Scadrial can provide instead I am curious about the limits of my favorite magic in the cosmere, all the way from Nalthis, awakening.  

We know that awakening items is to give them commands to do what a human might be able to to... to make an extension of one's self.  

We have seen awakening become so very much more than just that in the creation of lifeless who heed commands and a sword that even shards are weary of.  

I have always been curious about the extent of awakening to strengthen the things awakened.  Lifeless seem to still be able to be cut and bled out, awakened cloth and ropes can still be cut... BUT stones can envelope bones and move and swords made of common metal can become the most terrifying weapon in the cosmere able to damage honorblades too.  

Do you guys think there are limits to awakening or do you think enough breaths can empower anything to do just about anything?  If I awakened a cloak to keep me warm would it vibrate quickly creating friction on my skin or do you think the investiture itself can generate a warm layer?  If I awakened a cloak and told it to hide me, could I make an invisibility cloak or a single layers worth of a coppercloud-ish effect to hide my aura and other magics I would like to use?  Could an awakened monocle possibly be awakened to show a person the future or link a persons mind to see the spiritual or cognitive world / shadows around them?  Could you awaken bandage rolls to stop bleeding and heal the wounds underneath them?  Would things like this leech more investiture to work like we see from Nightblood?   

What are the limits to what we have seen?  We see cloth pick up and toss humans like ragdolls.  We see clothing catch projectiles and we see clothing absorb hard impact to protect the person underneath.  If I have a rope capable of towing 1300 lbs and I have it wrap up a shardbearer in plate weighing in at 1400lbs could that rope still toss this 1400lb armored man around like said ragdoll?  Does the investiture add to the maximum tensile strength of an item?  If I asked a tapestry to burrito up a shardbearer in plate or a pewterarm would they be able to out wrestle the tapestry to get free or would they be restrained until I ask it to let them go?  What if I command it to constrict them and kill them like a python does a rat?  Would it continue to take more and more breath from me until it was able to crush the plate along with the man inside or would he simply be stuck in that burrito until someone let him out no matter how hard it constricts around him?  

We saw some awesome stuff in Warbreaker.  I imagine arming full spandex body suits with weapons and then having an army of superpowered hollow soldiers capable of fighting and bearhugging my enemies to death... but dang it if all of these arent "RAFO and by the way I have no immediate plans to write anything about Nalthis."  FOR THE BETTER PART OF A DECADE NOW!!!! 

I see such potential in that system but it is honestly one of if not the softest system in the cosmere.  

 

[Frustration he/him]

A heating cloak would use friction, unless you know how to do some other things. What that is, we don't know.

Spoiler

Questioner

(Disclaimers so that you can't say, like, "well if a Shard...") If a regular Awakener, just a mundane Awakener with nothing more than a few hundred Breaths and not any other outside influences, is there some Command they could give a blanket to get the blanket to turn warm? Generate heat; is that a normal thing you can Command?

Brandon Sanderson

Not in just a normal situation. I mean, technically, you could tell the blanket "start rubbing one part against another part" or something like that, or "set yourself on fire," right? But that's not what you're asking. For Awakening to work, you have to work within the intrinsic properties of the matter you're making, except it can move around a bit and with a few little other things it can do.

It's not outside the realm of possibility you could activate those Breaths as Investiture to do something else, but you would need more than just the simple magic system of Awakening. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/472/#e14944

 

 

 

[alder24]

My opinion is that the limits of Awakening is only your Imagination and the property of material your're Awakening. I would say that Breaths enhance a little limits of that material, but not too much. Little strawman won't be able to pick up human, but a thread can stiffen enough to pick locks.

You could Awaken a cloak to hide you, IF you first made that cloak to look look like a rock, or tree, or something - basically a camouflage but the cloak will take a shape of an object when commanded. Unless you use a material that can change colors.

You can make an motor, without burning anything - Awaken belts to spin the gears and here you go. 

Awakaning a bandage to move and bandage your wounds would be a great idea, but it wouldn't heal the wounds.

You would you make an army of hollow knights when you can be Susebron and Awaken clothes on enemies from a distance and suffocate them?  

Here is my question - can you Awaken object in such a way, that it will go and Awaken another object? Probably not, but if you made type 4 entity then could they move and Awaken clothes to suffocate your enemies, when you commanded?

Edited December 13, 2022 by alder24

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

2 minutes ago, alder24 said:

My opinion is that the limits of Awakening is only your Imaginetion and the property of material your're Awakening. I would say that Breaths enhance a little limits of that material, but not too much. Little strawman won't be able to pick up human, but a thread can stiffen enough to pick locks.

You could Awaken a cloak to hide you, IF you first made that cloak to look look like a rock, or tree, or something - basically a camouflage but the cloak will take a shape of an object when commanded. Unless you use a material that can change colors.

You can make an motor, without burning anything - Awaken belts to spin the gears and here you go. 

Awakaning a bandage to move and bandage your wounds would be a great idea, but it wouldn't heal the wounds.

You would you make an army of hollow knights when you can be Susebron and Awaken clothes on enemies from a distance and suffocate them?  

Here is my question - can you Awaken object in such a way, that it will go and Awaken another object? Probably not, but if you made type 4 entity then could they move and Awaken clothes to suffocate your enemies, when you commanded?

Perhaps awakening clothing with a person inside would work better in the case of making soldiers.  You get structure and avoid the chances of it bleeding out to a point of not being able to be used.  Then deck it out in aluminum chain mail with aluminum weapons and make yourself an army of aluminum... But it would be way more economical to just make lifeless and dress them in aluminum armor. 

This brings up another potential scenario. 

Which would be better at picking a fight vs shardbearers... 

Kalad's phantoms (being made up of highly invested stones), or lifeless with the skills of a soldier dressed in awakened clothing for strength and speed and given aluminum weapons and armor?  

Do you think it is less breaths to make a lifeless and dress it up with Vasher's garb (at least you could retrieve a bunch as the lifeless looses its ichor alcohol), or to create a phantom where the breaths are very most likely irretrievable all together?  

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

A heating cloak would use friction, unless you know how to do some other things. What that is, we don't know.

  Hide contents

Questioner

(Disclaimers so that you can't say, like, "well if a Shard...") If a regular Awakener, just a mundane Awakener with nothing more than a few hundred Breaths and not any other outside influences, is there some Command they could give a blanket to get the blanket to turn warm? Generate heat; is that a normal thing you can Command?

Brandon Sanderson

Not in just a normal situation. I mean, technically, you could tell the blanket "start rubbing one part against another part" or something like that, or "set yourself on fire," right? But that's not what you're asking. For Awakening to work, you have to work within the intrinsic properties of the matter you're making, except it can move around a bit and with a few little other things it can do.

It's not outside the realm of possibility you could activate those Breaths as Investiture to do something else, but you would need more than just the simple magic system of Awakening. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/472/#e14944

 

 

 

Well this is a perfect answer to that question. 

As far as what a thing can do does anyone know of a WoB where he discusses breaths making anything stronger or supporting their ability to do their job?  Can a rope restrain a shardplate user or a thug?  Would that rope ever get tired of wrestling with them or once it has a hold it wont let go until told to do so or it gets shredded up?  

[alder24]

34 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Perhaps awakening clothing with a person inside would work better in the case of making soldiers.  You get structure and avoid the chances of it bleeding out to a point of not being able to be used.  Then deck it out in aluminum chain mail with aluminum weapons and make yourself an army of aluminum... But it would be way more economical to just make lifeless and dress them in aluminum armor. 

This brings up another potential scenario. 

Which would be better at picking a fight vs shardbearers... 

Kalad's phantoms (being made up of highly invested stones), or lifeless with the skills of a soldier dressed in awakened clothing for strength and speed and given aluminum weapons and armor?  

Do you think it is less breaths to make a lifeless and dress it up with Vasher's garb (at least you could retrieve a bunch as the lifeless looses its ichor alcohol), or to create a phantom where the breaths are very most likely irretrievable all together?  

Lifeless with Awaken mistcloak would be great in fighting. I did also think about Awakaning ropes or clothes around a chain - clothes for movement and cheap Awakaning, chains provides stronger punches, rigid structure, that can't be cut, and will protect clothes from being fully cut - clothes can swirl in such a way to cover the cut and maintain mobility. And of course lots of stripes with metal spikes on ends for multitasking.

Aluminum for now is preaty expensive and rare.

I don't think Kalad's phantoms are invested enough to stop a Sharblade, maybe slow it down, but not stop. Here is better idea - small lifeless bugs with dimond jaws that would go inside the Shardplate and cut gems out of it, or crack it. Or eat into eyes.

Spoiler

Questioner

Shardblades cut organic and inorganic matter differently. How would they interact with an animated construct like an Awakened straw man? What about a Lifeless?

Brandon Sanderson

So I walk kind of a fine line here. Something that's animated as a construct, like an Awakened straw man, is likely going to block the Shardblade to some extent, as powerful Investiture would. A Lifeless is probably just gonna act like it was a living being.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

 

It does take less Breaths to Awaken lifeless and dress it up, than making phantom, as they require Breath for joints to move.

Spoiler

DylanHuebner

I was wondering how the animation of the lifeless statues worked, in regard to the use of Susebron's Breath. If they were lifeless, then vasher wouldn't have been able to take his Breath back out of them, nor would susebron have needed such a great deal of breath to revive them—he just would have needed a password. But if they were simply Awakened, no password would have been necessary to animate the statues, just Breath and Command.

It seems like the statues could be neither lifeless nor awakened. Are they unique, because of the use of bone, or am I missing something? The only other explanation I could think of was that they were lifeless, but Susebron's breath wasn't used to activate the statues, he simply had it passed down from vasher, in addition to the statues. If that's the case(and then I've simply been confusing myself with unnecessary, convoluted logic), why was it necessary to keep the breath safe for all these years?

Brandon Sanderson

Wow, there are a lot of questions in there. If you follow the drafts, I think you can see the evolution of what became of the Lifeless army. Originally I had planned for the statues to simply have been placed there so that you could Awaken them—just in my original concepts, before I started the writing—and then that became the army.

I eventually decided that didn't work for various reasons. Number one, as I developed the magic system, Awakening stone doesn't work very well. You've got to have limberness, you've got to have motion to something for it to actually be stronger. So a soldier made out of cloth would be more useful to you than a soldier made out of stone, if you were just Awakening something. At that point, as I was developing this, I went back to the drawing board and said okay, I need to leave him a whole group of really cool Lifeless as the army. But that had problems in that the ichor would not have stayed good long enough. Plus they already had a pretty big Lifeless army, so what was special about this one? Remember, I'm revising concepts like this as the book is going along. You can see where in the story I could see what needed to be there. So I went back to the drawing board again.

I think the original draft of WARBREAKER you can download off my website has them just as statues, though at the time when I was writing that I already knew it would need to change. I was just sticking to my outline because I needed to have the whole thing complete on the page before I could work with it. A lot of times that's how I do things as a writer—I get the rough draft down, and then I begin to sculpt.

I eventually developed essentially what you've just outlined in the first part, before you started worrying if you were too convoluted. I said, well, what if there's a hybrid? What happens if you Awaken bones? Can you create something? The reason that you can't draw the Breath back from a Lifeless is because the Breath clings to it. If the Lifeless were sentient enough, it could give up its own Breath, but you can't take it, just like you can't take a Breath from a person by force. You have to get them to give it up willingly. So it sticks to the Lifeless. A Lifeless is, let's say, 90% of a sentient being. The Breath doesn't manifest in them, because they aren't alive, yet they're almost there. A stone statue brought to life would be way down on the bottom rung.

Is there something in between? That's the advancement I had Vasher discover—what if we build something out of bone, but then encase it in stone to make it strong, and build it in ways that the bone is held together by the force of the Breaths? That's really what you're getting at there, that you need a lot of Breath, a lot of power, to hold all that stone together. There are seams at the joints. What the Breath is doing is clinging there like magical sinew, and it's holding all of that together.

Vasher left the Phantoms Invested with enough Breath to hold them together but not to move. You needed another big, substantial influx of Breath in order to actually make them have motion, to bring them enough strength to move and that sort of thing. So it's kind of a hybrid.

Goodreads Fantasy Book Discussion Warbreaker Q&A (Jan. 18, 2010)

 

So you can use Breaths to hold material together and make it move on it's own. You can use any material, the cheeper the better, as you can simply put something inside it, like metal, stone, aluminum, and it will perform task you can imagine, strengthen with non-awaken material you added.

 

 

Spoiler

Inhorman (paraphrased)

Can you Awaken a complex mechanism in a way that it will work by itself?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

I didn't understand the question.

Inhorman (paraphrased)

Like Awakening a gun so it'll shoot by itself.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's very hard since you need lots of Breath but theoretically it's possible.

ICon 2019 (Oct. 18, 2019)

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by alder24

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

17 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Lifeless with Awaken mistcloak would be great in fighting. I did also think about Awakaning ropes or clothes around a chain - clothes for movement and cheap Awakaning, chains provides stronger punches, rigid structure, that can't be cut, and will protect clothes from being fully cut - clothes can swirl in such a way to cover the cut and maintain mobility. And of course lots of stripes with metal spikes on ends for multitasking.

Aluminum for now is preaty expensive and rare.

I don't think Kalad's phantoms are invested enough to stop a Sharblade, maybe slow it down, but not stop. Here is better idea - small lifeless bugs with dimond jaws that would go inside the Shardplate and cut gems out of it, or crack it. Or eat into eyes.

It does take less Breaths to Awaken lifeless and dress it up, than making phantom, as they require Breath for joints to move.

  Hide contents

DylanHuebner

I was wondering how the animation of the lifeless statues worked, in regard to the use of Susebron's Breath. If they were lifeless, then vasher wouldn't have been able to take his Breath back out of them, nor would susebron have needed such a great deal of breath to revive them—he just would have needed a password. But if they were simply Awakened, no password would have been necessary to animate the statues, just Breath and Command.

It seems like the statues could be neither lifeless nor awakened. Are they unique, because of the use of bone, or am I missing something? The only other explanation I could think of was that they were lifeless, but Susebron's breath wasn't used to activate the statues, he simply had it passed down from vasher, in addition to the statues. If that's the case(and then I've simply been confusing myself with unnecessary, convoluted logic), why was it necessary to keep the breath safe for all these years?

Brandon Sanderson

Wow, there are a lot of questions in there. If you follow the drafts, I think you can see the evolution of what became of the Lifeless army. Originally I had planned for the statues to simply have been placed there so that you could Awaken them—just in my original concepts, before I started the writing—and then that became the army.

I eventually decided that didn't work for various reasons. Number one, as I developed the magic system, Awakening stone doesn't work very well. You've got to have limberness, you've got to have motion to something for it to actually be stronger. So a soldier made out of cloth would be more useful to you than a soldier made out of stone, if you were just Awakening something. At that point, as I was developing this, I went back to the drawing board and said okay, I need to leave him a whole group of really cool Lifeless as the army. But that had problems in that the ichor would not have stayed good long enough. Plus they already had a pretty big Lifeless army, so what was special about this one? Remember, I'm revising concepts like this as the book is going along. You can see where in the story I could see what needed to be there. So I went back to the drawing board again.

I think the original draft of WARBREAKER you can download off my website has them just as statues, though at the time when I was writing that I already knew it would need to change. I was just sticking to my outline because I needed to have the whole thing complete on the page before I could work with it. A lot of times that's how I do things as a writer—I get the rough draft down, and then I begin to sculpt.

I eventually developed essentially what you've just outlined in the first part, before you started worrying if you were too convoluted. I said, well, what if there's a hybrid? What happens if you Awaken bones? Can you create something? The reason that you can't draw the Breath back from a Lifeless is because the Breath clings to it. If the Lifeless were sentient enough, it could give up its own Breath, but you can't take it, just like you can't take a Breath from a person by force. You have to get them to give it up willingly. So it sticks to the Lifeless. A Lifeless is, let's say, 90% of a sentient being. The Breath doesn't manifest in them, because they aren't alive, yet they're almost there. A stone statue brought to life would be way down on the bottom rung.

Is there something in between? That's the advancement I had Vasher discover—what if we build something out of bone, but then encase it in stone to make it strong, and build it in ways that the bone is held together by the force of the Breaths? That's really what you're getting at there, that you need a lot of Breath, a lot of power, to hold all that stone together. There are seams at the joints. What the Breath is doing is clinging there like magical sinew, and it's holding all of that together.

Vasher left the Phantoms Invested with enough Breath to hold them together but not to move. You needed another big, substantial influx of Breath in order to actually make them have motion, to bring them enough strength to move and that sort of thing. So it's kind of a hybrid.

Goodreads Fantasy Book Discussion Warbreaker Q&A (Jan. 18, 2010)

 

So you can use Breaths to hold material together and make it move on it's own. You can use any material, the cheeper the better, as you can simply put something inside it, like metal, stone, aluminum, and it will perform task you can imagine, strengthen with non-awaken material you added.

I like the idea of floating material through a chain or the like.  Aluminum, on scadrial at least, is going to be become ever more popular as it is easier and easier to manufacture.  But I totally agree it is rare and hard to get now (curious how much aluminum needs to be in an alloy to keep its ability to resist a shardblade).   

Awakening totally brings me back to the first time I saw this guy doing rope dart with a sash that was loaded with steel ball bearings.  

Awakeners could go ham with the right tools and they won't be nearly as hamstrung by aluminum as others (at least in my opinion).  If only they could heal....

[alder24]

I do like them more without healing, it makes it more engaging and thrilling. Awakening is my favorite magic system, maybe because it's so practical, easy to use, and grounded. You can just use it every day during your normal work and in house duties and it would be so easy - Awaken broom to dust the floor.

It's a good question about aluminum alloy. I think it would depend on alloy, and how much aluminum loses/changes its material properties in alloy.

 

Spoiler

Questioner

In Awakening an object when you give it the sort of Command like, go get the keys, or something. How does that object perceive the world around it? Since it doesn't have standard human senses, how does it see? How does it touch?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not--

Moderator

Repeat the question.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh… go ahead.

Moderator

The question was, how do Awakened objects actually perceive the world.

Brandon Sanderson

…The closest correlation you have to this is how Inquisitors see.

Questioner

Okay, following up on that say, someone who has-- say someone with bronze who-- a bronze Misting managed to somehow get access to Breath and Awaken would he then be able to tell that object "Hey I sense this Allomancer over there, can you find it".

Brandon Sanderson

That is not outside the realm of possibility.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

Awakaning can do so many things. You just need to imagine it.

 

Edit: ok frustration

Edited December 13, 2022 by alder24

[Frustration he/him]

9 minutes ago, alder24 said:

TLM mini-spoiler

TLM spoilers aren't allowed outside the specific boards.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

40 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I do like them more without healing, it makes it more engaging and thrilling. Awakening is my favorite magic system, maybe because it's so practical, easy to use, and grounded. You can just use it every day during your normal work and in house duties and it would be so easy - Awaken broom to dust the floor.

It's a good question about aluminum alloy. I think it would depend on alloy, and how much aluminum loses/changes its material properties in alloy.

 

  Hide contents

Questioner

In Awakening an object when you give it the sort of Command like, go get the keys, or something. How does that object perceive the world around it? Since it doesn't have standard human senses, how does it see? How does it touch?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not--

Moderator

Repeat the question.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh… go ahead.

Moderator

The question was, how do Awakened objects actually perceive the world.

Brandon Sanderson

…The closest correlation you have to this is how Inquisitors see.

Questioner

Okay, following up on that say, someone who has-- say someone with bronze who-- a bronze Misting managed to somehow get access to Breath and Awaken would he then be able to tell that object "Hey I sense this Allomancer over there, can you find it".

Brandon Sanderson

That is not outside the realm of possibility.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

Awakaning can do so many things. You just need to imagine it.

 

Edit: ok frustration

Honestly, maybe awakening without healing is better for story but I worry about it in the cosmere wide conflicts.  It is arguably the strongest of the arts but without healing it is also the highest risk reward strat out there... 

Granted, does gold compounding help you that much if Miles were to be wrapped up in a constrictor of death?  

Could Jasnah actually soulcast an awakener or soulcast the weapons an awakener carries?  How long would stormlight keep a radiant going when being crushed into goo by their own clothing.  

Depending on what heightening Vasher is on Roshar he could well be the most dangerous man on the planet even without Nightblood.  

New question.  If you dosed up a body suit with a bunch of breaths how long do you think it could last while weilding nightblood on its own?   If you wove a bunch of gems into the suit would it feed off of the light in the gems at all?   

Can you command a persons clothing to rip them in half?  

Edited December 13, 2022 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine

[Frustration he/him]

10 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

New question.  If you dosed up a body suit with a bunch of breaths how long do you think it could last while weilding nightblood on its own?   If you wove a bunch of gems into the suit would it feed off of the light in the gems at all?   

I don't think either the suit or Nightblood would draw on the gems, at least not without modification. And how long the suit would last depends on the gems. Vasher burnt through a decent amount in under a minute at the end of Warbreaker.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

9 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I don't think either the suit or Nightblood would draw on the gems, at least not without modification. And how long the suit would last depends on the gems. Vasher burnt through a decent amount in under a minute at the end of Warbreaker.

I believe I saw something on how Nightblood kills people even if the hilt hits them while he is partly drawn.  I can't remember if that is because he simply eats investuture at a rate based on how much he is drawn or what.  But those wounds, if memory serves correctly, were all battered bones and normal physical injuries not magical soul sucking injuries.  But it was enough to kill everytime I saw it happen.  Why then did Vasher feel the need to draw him fully at all?  Couldn't the lifeless have all been killed that way or is it precisely that they were lifeless and couldn't be killed by simply hitting them with the hilt?  

How would a person with healing abilities fare against a hit from Nightblood sheathed.  It is usually a kill on a human with no healing abilities but would it require the same amount of healing to heal a normal broken back or what have you?   

[alder24]

31 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Granted, does gold compounding help you that much if Miles were to be wrapped up in a constrictor of death?  

Not much, he would slowly die, very slowly. Maybe in few years or so. 

31 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Could Jasnah actually soulcast an awakener or soulcast the weapons an awakener carries?

Investiture resist soulcasting, but it can be done. It depends on how much Breaths they have. 

31 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

How long would stormlight keep a radiant going when being crushed into goo by their own clothing.  

Some time. But it would run out. If Radiant is restrain in such a way that he can't use little Shardknife then he's dead - unless soulcasting is involved.

31 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Depending on what heightening Vasher is on Roshar he could well be the most dangerous man on the planet even without Nightblood.  

I do not consider Awakaning to be the most dangerous, but most practical and versatile. Dalinar is much more dangerous. But Vasher is nonetheless a person you don't want to mess with.

31 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

If you dosed up a body suit with a bunch of breaths how long do you think it could last while weilding nightblood on its own?   If you wove a bunch of gems into the suit would it feed off of the light in the gems at all?

If you connect gems in such a way that light would flow into Nightblood, that it could work. But not for long. Nightblood needs exponentially more investiture to be fed with. 

31 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Can you command a persons clothing to rip them in half?  

Clothes wouldn't have that amount of strength, material would rip faster.

8 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I believe I saw something on how Nightblood kills people even if the hilt hits them while he is partly drawn.  I can't remember if that is because he simply eats investuture at a rate based on how much he is drawn or what.  But those wounds, if memory serves correctly, were all battered bones and normal physical injuries not magical soul sucking injuries.  But it was enough to kill everytime I saw it happen.  Why then did Vasher feel the need to draw him fully at all?  Couldn't the lifeless have all been killed that way or is it precisely that they were lifeless and couldn't be killed by simply hitting them with the hilt?  

How would a person with healing abilities fare against a hit from Nightblood sheathed.  It is usually a kill on a human with no healing abilities but would it require the same amount of healing to heal a normal broken back or what have you?   

Nightblood can kill while sheathed and that's without drawing any investiture. It can even pierce a body in a sheath. Vasher draw him fully so he can just cut through walls and ceilings (I wonder how they fix those) to quickly get from the bottom of the pallace to top to help Vivenna. Time was crucial there.

And someone with the healing would do just fine, but he would be surprise what sheathed Nightblood can do. Depending on where would he be hit, Nightblood can kill him even. But sheathed Nightblood does just a normal damage, just extra strong.

Edited December 13, 2022 by alder24

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I believe I saw something on how Nightblood kills people even if the hilt hits them while he is partly drawn.  I can't remember if that is because he simply eats investuture at a rate based on how much he is drawn or what.  But those wounds, if memory serves correctly, were all battered bones and normal physical injuries not magical soul sucking injuries.  But it was enough to kill everytime I saw it happen.  Why then did Vasher feel the need to draw him fully at all?  Couldn't the lifeless have all been killed that way or is it precisely that they were lifeless and couldn't be killed by simply hitting them with the hilt?

How would a person with healing abilities fare against a hit from Nightblood sheathed.  It is usually a kill on a human with no healing abilities but would it require the same amount of healing to heal a normal broken back or what have you?   

It's not that kills instantly when partially drawn. When the latch is open but he hasn't been removed from his sheath he does more damage than a normal sword would, like breaking a man's neck with only a mildly powerful swing. It isn't until he's removed from the sheath that he kills anything he touches.

There's actually a WoB on this

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood

Nightblood's name, by the way, is supposed to sound kind of like the names of the Returned. I played with various different ways for his powers to manifest. I liked the idea of him driving those who hold him to kill anyone nearby. It seemed to work with the concepts that have come before—a kind of unholy, sentient mix of Stormbringer and the One Ring.

The strangest thing about him is the idea that his form isn't that important. The sheath is like a binding for him, keeping his power contained. So drawing him out isn't like drawing a regular weapon, but rather an unleashing of a creature who has been kept chained.

Once that creature is unleashed, he becomes a weapon—even if he's unleashed only a little bit. The sheath itself turns into a weapon, twisting those around it. You don't need to stab someone with Nightblood to kill them; smashing them on the back with the sheath works just as well. It will crunch bones, but beyond that, merely touching them with the sheath when the smoke is leaking can be deadly.

Warbreaker Annotations (Feb. 7, 2011)

I have no idea if Nightblood broken backs are harder to heal.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

8 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Not much, he would slowly die, very slowly. Maybe in few years or so. 

Investiture resist soulcasting, but it can be done. It depends on how much Breaths they have. 

Some time. But it would run out. If Radiant is restrain in such a way that he can't use little Shardknife then he's dead - unless soulcasting is involved.

I do not consider Awakaning to be the most dangerous, but most practical and versatile. Dalinar is much more dangerous. But Vasher is nonetheless a person you don't want to mess with.

If you connect gems in such a way that light would flow into Nightblood, that it could work. But not for long. Nightblood needs exponentially more investiture to be fed with. 

Clothes wouldn't have that amount of strength, material would rip faster.

Nightblood can kill while sheathed and that's without drawing any investiture. It can even pierce a body in a sheath. Vasher draw him fully so he can just cut through walls and ceilings (I wonder how they fix those) to quickly get from the bottom of the pallace to top to help Vivenna. Time was crucial there.

And someone with the healing would do just fine, but he would be surprise what sheathed Nightblood can do. Depending on where would he be hit, Nightblood can kill him even. But sheathed Nightblood does just a normal damage, just extra strong.

It is interesting that aluminum sheath with nightblood can warp and kill the way it does while aluminum anywhere else in the cosmere would just act as an aluminum sheath.  Nightblood seems to have effect on the sheath or simply he effects the world around the sheath in such a way that a blunt aluminum sheath can stab right through a person. 

[alder24]

9 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

It is interesting that aluminum sheath with nightblood can warp and kill the way it does while aluminum anywhere else in the cosmere would just act as an aluminum sheath.  Nightblood seems to have effect on the sheath or simply he effects the world around the sheath in such a way that a blunt aluminum sheath can stab right through a person. 

It's not alumium, it's Nightblood. The most invested object in Cosmere with twisted command to destroy evil, leaking corrupted investiture, as its so full of it. That's just bad combination. Aluminum contains it, but Nightblood is not fully cover in aluminum, its handle is still uncovered, and that's most likely contributes to certain abilities of him, like talking in mind, felling others, maybe stronger strikes with it. It's not just getting smacked with almost 1.5m long piece of metal, it is getting smacked with metal full of investiture. And when you unsheathe Nightblood, you have our favorite monster. Aluminum sheath is not part of Nightblood. 

Creation of type 4 entities is intresting, and we don't know much about it. 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

12 minutes ago, alder24 said:

It's not alumium, it's Nightblood. The most invested object in Cosmere with twisted command to destroy evil, leaking corrupted investiture, as its so full of it. That's just bad combination. Aluminum contains it, but Nightblood is not fully cover in aluminum, its handle is still uncovered, and that's most likely contributes to certain abilities of him, like talking in mind, felling others, maybe stronger strikes with it. It's not just getting smacked with almost 1.5m long piece of metal, it is getting smacked with metal full of investiture. And when you unsheathe Nightblood, you have our favorite monster. Aluminum sheath is not part of Nightblood. 

Creation of type 4 entities is intresting, and we don't know much about it. 

I need to reread the entities and types.  

Can you put so much breath into a cloth that it speaks back or are awakened strips of cloth able to move so easily that they are too efficient to ever need enough investiture to make them speak back?  

[alder24]

37 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I need to reread the entities and types.  

0 - manifested from investiture alone and sentient - Sprens (to Vasher frustration of changing the categories)
1 - dead body and sentient - Returned, only one type appearing naturally
2 - dead body and not sentient - Lifeless
3 - object and not sentient - Awakening
4 - object and sentient - Nightblood

37 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Can you put so much breath into a cloth that it speaks back or are awakened strips of cloth able to move so easily that they are too efficient to ever need enough investiture to make them speak back?  

You want them to speak? That's type 4 - you can do it like Nightblood, but I would suggest making it not like like Nightblood.
But just put enough Breaths until they start to speak? That's a no.
Awaken them to move and put so much breath so they speak - no, they will just move, but putting more Breaths in it doesn't make them move more efficient - they can be only so efficient as material is capable of withstanding and what it can make.
Akawening already takes the most efficient amounts of Breaths to power it, depending on command and how life-like material is. Putting more is just a waste.

But like every investiture, if you put enough of it in one place, like really a lot of it, it can gain sentience - like sprens. But that's not a Breaths characteristic, just investiture thing.

Edited December 13, 2022 by alder24

[Crucible of Shards he/him]

Back to a cloak that can keep you warm, I be there is a way to awaken the cloak to use a brass medallion and constantly tap a desired amount of warmth. But of course you could just use the medallion yourself instead of using breaths to awaken a cloak.