Roshar deserves to lose

[Frustration he/him]

2 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I know not all Dawnshards are the same, and have the same torment, but we don't know which one Hoid hold. Fused are slightly different from Kel - they have body and can FEEL pain therefore it causes them harm - Kel just thought there should be pain and felt it as a result.

I was meaning more go to Braize and use Dawnshard fueled Division to break their souls apart.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

I was meaning more go to Braize and use Dawnshard fueled Division to break their souls apart.

Punching a soul is not comparable to "Nightblooding it away"... That do cause harm. A lot of it.

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, alder24 said:

Punching a soul is not comparable to "Nightblooding it away"... That do cause harm. A lot of it.

Hoid was able to hurt Kel because he was already dead, not because it didn't cause harm

Spoiler

tututitlookslikerain

and the reason he (even still) cannot physically harm people

This point still confuses me. He quite handily puts Kelsier on his rear in The Well.

So he can harm someone if he's provoked? Or is it because he knows that regardless of what he does to Kelsier it won't actually harm him?

And a lot of "harm" is in the mind. Even without a corporeal body, it would still register as pain, thus harm?

And wouldn't it still be considered physical harm, if Hoid was there physically? Applying physical harm?

Brandon Sanderson

If you re-read that scene, Hoid himself is shocked he's able to do what he does there. Let's just say he himself doesn't quite understand the issue as much as he once assumed.

ice_royale

Can we assume he cannot harm a LIVING being, but Kelsier is at that point not a living being?

Brandon Sanderson

This is the conclusion Hoid came to, so it's a pretty solid assumption.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 9, 2020)

 

[Tglassy]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Hoid was able to hurt Kel because he was already dead, not because it didn't cause harm

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tututitlookslikerain

and the reason he (even still) cannot physically harm people

This point still confuses me. He quite handily puts Kelsier on his rear in The Well.

So he can harm someone if he's provoked? Or is it because he knows that regardless of what he does to Kelsier it won't actually harm him?

And a lot of "harm" is in the mind. Even without a corporeal body, it would still register as pain, thus harm?

And wouldn't it still be considered physical harm, if Hoid was there physically? Applying physical harm?

Brandon Sanderson

If you re-read that scene, Hoid himself is shocked he's able to do what he does there. Let's just say he himself doesn't quite understand the issue as much as he once assumed.

ice_royale

Can we assume he cannot harm a LIVING being, but Kelsier is at that point not a living being?

Brandon Sanderson

This is the conclusion Hoid came to, so it's a pretty solid assumption.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 9, 2020)

 

I was under the assumption that the reason he could harm Kel was because he wasn't actually harming Kel, and all the pain and whatnot was just in Kel's head.  If he'd had any experience being a ghost, Hoid wouldn't have been able to hurt him.  There is no spoon, and all that.