Who would win, the Ultimate Cosmere free for all.

[alder24]

Just now, lacrossedeamon said:

I’m not refusing. I’m just taking everything said at only facevalue instead of drawing more inference or extrapolating. We haven’t seen enough of Dawnshards to know if Rysn is the norm or an outlier or if Dawnshards do grant access to more Investiture or Surges on their own that she just can’t utilize for whatever reason at the moment.

We know it. Nikli separated Suegebinding from a Command for a reason. Why is he calling Dawnshard Commands? How can Command grant a Surge when Command is a requirement for a Surge? It's all there in quote I provided to you, which you deny. There is nothing outstanding about Rysn, exept for a fact that she isn't Surgebinder. 

[lacrossedeamon]

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

We know it. Nikli separated Suegebinding from a Command for a reason. Why is he calling Dawnshard Commands? How can Command grant a Surge when Command is a requirement for a Surge? It's all there in quote I provided to you, which you deny. There is nothing outstanding about Rysn, exept for a fact that she isn't Surgebinder. 

Why can’t a Command also grant a surge? A surge requiring one shouldn’t preclude that. Also the quote states the Dawnshards created all things which taken at face value means they also created the original pre shattering surges.

[alder24]

12 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Why can’t a Command also grant a surge?

Because it's a command. Command is just a command. Nothing more. 

13 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Also the quote states the Dawnshards created all things which taken at face value means they also created the original pre shattering surges.

They might provide Commands to investiture, which created the Universe, or whey might be use with something. But creating surges doesn't mean the provide surges. They are Commands, and Commands only.  What about the rest of the quote, which clearly states that Surge requires Command, and the greatest Surges require god-like Commands, which are Dawnshards? 

[StanLemon]

Think of it this way, Awakening needs Commands but they are useless without Breaths and Color to fuel it

[lacrossedeamon]

29 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Because it's a command. Command is just a command. Nothing more. 

Can you prove that? As in that the Dawnshard is solely just a Command?

29 minutes ago, alder24 said:

They might provide Commands to investiture, which created the Universe, or whey might be use with something. But creating surges doesn't mean the provide surges. They are Commands, and Commands only.  What about the rest of the quote, which clearly states that Surge requires Command, and the greatest Surges require god-like Commands, which are Dawnshards? 

Yes surges require commands but again that doesn’t preclude something being able to grant both.

5 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Think of it this way, Awakening needs Commands but they are useless without Breaths and Color to fuel it

Ah but those aren’t commands divinely crafted by Adonalsium (assumedly) that already come with their own investiture like the Dawnshards do.

Edited January 9, 2023 by lacrossedeamon

[StanLemon]

10 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Ah but those aren’t commands divinely crafted by Adonalsium (assumedly) that already come with their own investiture like the Dawnshards do.

But what Investiture are they supposed to Command? Their own Investiture that makes up their existence? That would be like an Allomancer using the part of their soul that grants Allomancy as the fuel. 

Besides, there would be no point in the Sleepless forbidding Rysn from forming a Bond if she could just use the power of the Dawnshard itself

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Can you prove that? As in that the Dawnshard is solely just a Command?

I already did it, several times. Dawnshard ch 19 - you should read it.

Quote

The Dawnshards are Commands, Rysn. The will of a god.

And so, the Dawnshards. The four primal Commands[...] 

10 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Yes surges require commands but again that doesn’t preclude something being able to grant both.

Dawnshards are commands, they aren't granting commands, they are them. If you building your house out of bricks, can a brick become your house? Surge is usage of investiture, and it require investiture, command and intent. Command on its own (in person or not) can't become a Surge. 

8 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Ah but those aren’t commands divinely crafted by Adonalsium (assumedly) that already come with their own investiture like the Dawnshards do.

They aren't on the level of Dawnshard, they aren't on the level of divine understanding of Command, to achieve this, you need to expand your spirit web, which is what Dawnshards are doing, and to do this, you need to infuse it with investiture, which is what Dawnshards are doing. Dawnshards are Divine Command, made out of investiture, so the divinity could happen - if you take that investiture away and use it for surge, Dawnshard will no longer be a Dawnshard. Again, can you take piece of spren and fuel Surges with it?

[+Bzhydack he/him]

Ok, my turn to create Super-Duper-Powerhouse in Cosmere!

1st. Species. Sighted Horneater. 10 points. Ability to see Cognitive Entities is super usefull, and not very common.

2nd. Mistborn - 192 points.

3d. Feruchemist - 192 points.

4th. Elantrian - 200 points. BTW, I think this is way too cheap for something weve seen Elantrain can do.

5th. Larkin - 5 points. This little puppet will devour any hostile Investiture for me leaving my oponents defensless, and their all magic usless. And may grows!

6th. Jar of purified Dor - 300 points. - Can be used as Atium too, why have the same price?

7th. 10 Primer Cubes, 5 points each.

8th. Aetherbound - 24 points. Roseite Aether. For Protection. Aethers work very good with Bendalloy Feruchemy too.

9th. Dead Shardblade - 12 points. In case of some physical obstacles.

10th. 1 Hemalurgic Spike - 12 points. Supercheap, and I can have Duralumin one, with Connection to whatever I want! Or rather, to whatever I steal.

11th. 1st Hightening. Just because I have 3 points left, so I can spend one.

Why no Bondsmith or other Radiant? Because all Radiants can do, Elantrian can do also. They can be little awkward, because of their dependance of place, but 1st. weve seen workaround, and 2nd. I have two others sources of Power, Allomancy and puryfied Dor in Jar. Have Aether for Armor, Allomancy for easy fuel, have two ways to see future (Jar of Dor can work as Atium and Compounded Fortune), and any equaly powerfull enemy will be powerless from my Larkin (or Leaching).

[IlstrawberrySeed]

Spoiler

 

Sleepless 10

nec/nec twin born 34

20 surgebinding medalians 262

22 Allo/Fuero meds 526 (not nec, bronze, electrum, aluminum for either)

Stormform Med 538

Raysdium weapon 838

Forgery 848

Dakor Med 860   

Elantrian med 872 

Sand M 882

Chayshan 892

Shardblade 904

Primer cube 909

B/B: Can blank identity & Connection of investiture, but have no identity or connection myself. (28) 937

Second Shardblade 949

atium-electrum fuero medalian 961.

Birthing Compounding medalian 985.

Primer cube and potions 1000

 

 

 

tin-mind fillers:

Spoiler

 

steel/iron sight

life sence

bronze sence

Shadesmar sight

corpse sight

mental sence 

Atium/malatium/gold/electrum shadows

connection sight

future pannels

color detection

perfict pitch

blood spilled

running at night

firestarting

 

 

I'm a Sleepless with no identity or connection, Sand Mastery, Chayshan, Forgery, potions, 2 shardblades, an advanced Raysdium weapon with fabrial, metalmind, potion, and ettemettel components, and a necrosil compounder twinborn. Using medalians, I can compound all useful fuerochemeical attributes, become elantrian and dakhor, use all 20 forms of surges, and use stormform lightning. I have no need for aviar or larkin due to my tinminds and specialized hordelings. I also have perfect pitch (from tinmind), and from my boon, can use it to turn enemies investiture anti. I can breed fast due to compounding using the Birthing medalian, and atium-electrum fuerochemistry/potions to make them older.

My 2 primer cubes can be used in conjunction to fill memeries and to fill copper fuerochemistry. My Raysdium weapon has slots for full bendalloyminds, atiumminds, tinminds, copperminds, and goldminds, such that a painmind and a painrial can be used together, Bendalloyminds can store toxic/pre-toxic nutrients, oversaturation of specific molecules, or oversaturation of energy, causing strains if not worse. Copperminds and goldminds ca be used to heal someone something they aren't, and ettemettel can be used to stop specific powers, or to have them fill metalminds. I am unsure what would happen if an ettmetal charge was raysdiumed into a person, but I suspect they would have a similar effect to if they were a primer cube or if they were in it's range. Aditianally, it has a back'n'forth section for investiture to invert.

Having no identity or connection means that my metalminds can be tapped by others with the right powers, which is why I'm a necrosil ferring, instead of relying on the unsealdness of metalminds (However, I still have the ability to use others stored, so a necrosil ferring or fuerochemist can grab my stores if they can get to them at once.), and a rioter/Soother/sleepless might be able to abduct some of my hordlings. 

Also, since it has been mentioned, I am working on a cortex based ecclectic TTRPG that would include the cosmere, as well as some other works, both by BS and not.

[alder24]

@IlstrawberrySeed I don't think that when @Frustration wrote "Medallions - 12 points per power(specify which, not limited to 4 powers, or to feruchemy)" he meant all powers accross Cosmere, and not just powers of Allomancy or Feruchemy. Well, it's technically possible to make those medalions, but you would need purified Dor to power them or maybe not (?). So good job on tricking the system, kind of.

But I think you would need connection to Preservation to use allomancy/feruchemy. That's what Lerasium bead do, make connection so you can draw power from it. Medalions do provide connection, but your Nicrosil Twinborn now doesn't have that now.

And what is "Birthing Compounding  medalian"? Sleepless bread by having kids natural way, that's not invested ability.

Still fun idea.

Edited January 9, 2023 by alder24

[lacrossedeamon]

8 hours ago, alder24 said:

I already did it, several times. Dawnshard ch 19 - you should read it.

I have in fact but I seemed to miss the part where Nikli (an in universe source who could be unreliable) states

Quote

The Dawnshards are Commands, Rysn. And only Commands, nothing else. Don’t you dare think they could be something else, Rysn. You stupid girl.

At the end of the day you think I’m being obtuse and I think you are making an inductive fallacy. Your arguments aren’t supported enough for my standards to change my stance and I don’t care enough about your opinion to continue to try to change yours. I think I will be vindicated in this when Dragonsteel comes out.

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, lacrossedeamon said:

I think I will be vindicated in this when Dragonsteel comes out.

You'll be waiting a while then

Seriously Brandon, just finish the book.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Frustration

[lacrossedeamon]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

You'll be waiting a while then

Seriously Brandon, just finish the book.

I’m here for the long haul.

[Tglassy]

My Second Character:  

Returned.  Cause I like Returned.  5 points.

Twinborn.  Double Bendalloy.  24 points.  (29) (Ha!  Didn't see that one coming, did you!

Medallions granting F-Steel and A-Cadmium.  24 points (53)

4th Oath Dustbringer.  300 points.(353)

9th Heightening.  400 points. (753)

Elantrian. 200 points. (953)

Aetherbound (Midnight Essence).  24 points (977)

Soulcaster. 20 points.  (997)

Boon/Bane: 3 points (1000).  Boon is to use Lifelight the way Lift does.  Bane is to be unable to use Stormlight regularly.  I feel that, for an average person, that's a pretty even trade that shouldn't cost too much, even if I am using it to cheese.

First thing I do is use my 9th Heightening to create a copy of Nightblood.  I'd compound my last good dinner to get an insane amount of nutrition stored in my Bendalloymind, one for food and the other for water.  That's what would feed Nightblood, my Surges, my Returned status, and my Aethers.  Basically infinite, or near infinite, Lifelight/water/sustenence.  And I have Steel speed and Time Bubbles.  I can't compound the speed, but that's ok.  It's for small bursts when y'all Fullborn come at me. 

Having both Time Bubbles is important, because I should be able to burn both at the same time, creating an area around me of slowed time that I am not included in.  Basically, the faster time is a smaller bubble than the slower time, and where they meet cancels each other out.  It puts a ring around me of slower time, so when y'all speedy gonzalases come through, I can catch you in it.  

With my own Nightblood, I should be able to break through all y'all's Living or Dead Plate, destroy your blades, and one touch and you die.  The d**** thing killed a god with one good stab.  Having Living Plate with near infinite Lifelight to power my surges, my healing and all that, and I'm nearly unstopable.  Take Elantrean for the lulz.  Seriously, anything I need to do, I can do with the Aons.  They're just too useful.  Oh, and I can instinctivly awaken anything within the sound of my voice, so all y'alls clothes are about to strangle you.  And that doesn't even mention my Midnight Essence and my Division.

I am death, destroyer of worlds.  

Pretty sure I win.  

Edited January 10, 2023 by Tglassy

[Frustration he/him]

9 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

My Second Character:  

Returned.  Cause I like Returned.  5 points.

Twinborn.  Double Bendalloy.  24 points.  (29) (Ha!  Didn't see that one coming, did you!

Medallions granting F-Steel and A-Cadmium.  24 points (53)

4th Oath Dustbringer.  300 points.(353)

9th Heightening.  400 points. (753)

Elantrian. 200 points. (953)

Aetherbound (Midnight Essence).  24 points (977)

Soulcaster. 20 points.  (997)

Boon/Bane: 3 points (1000).  Boon is to use Lifelight the way Lift does.  Bane is to be unable to use Stormlight regularly.  I feel that, for an average person, that's a pretty even trade that shouldn't cost too much, even if I am using it to cheese.

First thing I do is use my 9th Heightening to create a copy of Nightblood.  I'd compound my last good dinner to get an insane amount of nutrition stored in my Bendalloymind, one for food and the other for water.  That's what would feed Nightblood, my Surges, my Returned status, and my Aethers.  Basically infinite, or near infinite, Lifelight/water/sustenence.  And I have Steel speed and Time Bubbles.  I can't compound the speed, but that's ok.  It's for small bursts when y'all Fullborn come at me. 

Having both Time Bubbles is important, because I should be able to burn both at the same time, creating an area around me of slowed time that I am not included in.  Basically, the faster time is a smaller bubble than the slower time, and where they meet cancels each other out.  It puts a ring around me of slower time, so when y'all speedy gonzalases come through, I can catch you in it.  

With my own Nightblood, I should be able to break through all y'all's Living or Dead Plate, destroy your blades, and one touch and you die.  The d**** thing killed a god with one good stab.  Having Living Plate with near infinite Lifelight to power my surges, my healing and all that, and I'm nearly unstopable.  Take Elantrean for the lulz.  Seriously, anything I need to do, I can do with the Aons.  They're just too useful.  Oh, and I can instinctivly awaken anything within the sound of my voice, so all y'alls clothes are about to strangle you.  And that doesn't even mention my Midnight Essence and my Division.

I am death, destroyer of worlds.  

Pretty sure I win.  

Can you create an actual Nightblood is the question.

[Tglassy]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Can you create an actual Nightblood is the question.

With the 9th heightening, you can instinctivly Awaken, and you can awaken Stone and Steel.  Shashara was the 9th Heightening when creating Nightblood, and he only had one simple comand, "Destroy Evil."  It takes 1000 breaths, which the 9th heightening has in droves.  Technically, I could create an entire suit of Awakened Armor.  

Edit.  There's also all kinds of things we don't know about Awakening that you'd learn by the 9th Heightening.  How to store memoreis, for example, and break another Awakener's hold on an Awakened object.  I completely overlooked the whole Awakening thing the first time.  having the 10th Heightening is too restrictive, but being an immortal Necromancer who can create a weapon that can kill a god?  Yeah.  That's awesome.  

Edited January 10, 2023 by Tglassy

[Frustration he/him]

1 hour ago, Tglassy said:

With the 9th heightening, you can instinctivly Awaken, and you can awaken Stone and Steel.  Shashara was the 9th Heightening when creating Nightblood, and he only had one simple comand, "Destroy Evil."  It takes 1000 breaths, which the 9th heightening has in droves.  Technically, I could create an entire suit of Awakened Armor.  

Edit.  There's also all kinds of things we don't know about Awakening that you'd learn by the 9th Heightening.  How to store memoreis, for example, and break another Awakener's hold on an Awakened object.  I completely overlooked the whole Awakening thing the first time.  having the 10th Heightening is too restrictive, but being an immortal Necromancer who can create a weapon that can kill a god?  Yeah.  That's awesome.  

Oh, you could create type IV biocromatic swords, I was more referring to Nightblood levels of destruction, considering.

Spoiler

Walin

Does Nightblood contain any of Ruin's Investiture? Like, not atium, but...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, technically; and I'm not wiggling around that, because technically, location in the Cosmere and who belongs to what gets really weird, right? Because Ruin's Investiture is everywhere--but I'm not talking that way. I'm talking the way you actually mean it. 

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

I'm not sure that any awakener could make another Nightblood.

[Tglassy]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Oh, you could create type IV biocromatic swords, I was more referring to Nightblood levels of destruction, considering.

  Hide contents

Walin

Does Nightblood contain any of Ruin's Investiture? Like, not atium, but...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, technically; and I'm not wiggling around that, because technically, location in the Cosmere and who belongs to what gets really weird, right? Because Ruin's Investiture is everywhere--but I'm not talking that way. I'm talking the way you actually mean it. 

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

I'm not sure that any awakener could make another Nightblood.

So what you're saying is I need to grab that bag of Atium and smelt it into a Sword first...Though, im pretty sure there's a WoB that says Nightblood wasn't made from Atium...

[Ashbringer he/him]

Something weird happened with Nightblood, specifically. Something we don’t exactly know. But I imagine you’d get something similar to Azure’s blade and not Nightblood.

Also, small side note that the Fullborn can burn Bendalloy too. That’s the issue with it, Fullborn vs Fullborn kinda cancels out, with Lerasium vs Normal being a relatively small edge compared to Compounding.

Hence my Floor Dahkor 

[Frustration he/him]

25 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

So what you're saying is I need to grab that bag of Atium and smelt it into a Sword first...Though, im pretty sure there's a WoB that says Nightblood wasn't made from Atium...

Nightblood was steel before being awakened. What I'm saying is that Nightblood has some funny buisness going on that we do not fully understand yet.

@Ashbringer Lerasium Mistborn are 3-4 times stronger than regular.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Frustration

[Tglassy]

 

 

12 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Something weird happened with Nightblood, specifically. Something we don’t exactly know. But I imagine you’d get something similar to Azure’s blade and not Nightblood.

Also, small side note that the Fullborn can burn Bendalloy too. That’s the issue with it, Fullborn vs Fullborn kinda cancels out, with Lerasium vs Normal being a relatively small edge compared to Compounding.

Hence my Floor Dahkor 

Yeah, a Fullborn can compound Bendalloy, but it also costs almost 400 points.  If I wanted to be a Fullborn and a 9th Heightening Awakener, I'd spend almost 800 points.  Not enough to grab a 4th Oath and be an Elantrian.  The main point was to use the Metalic Arts to fuel the others via Bendalloy compounding, grab Nightblood or something similar, and still have enough to get Elantrian (for the Aons) to cover any additional abilities. And I had enough to grab a few Medallions and an Aether.  Couldn't do all that if I was a Fullborn as well. 

Also, being a Returned grants all kinds of stuff we don't really know.  Dent was insanely fast.  Vashar can pretty handily beat Kaladin in a fight.  They have at least some shapeshifting ability, and strength and attributes beyond a normal human.  It's kinda hard to tell, but I'd bet a Returned is basically like someone on Pewter at all times.  They are their perfected Spiritual Self in physical form.  If Vashar  and Dent are any indication, I'd say a Returned could hold their own in the VS matches we've been doing lately.  

But yeah, being a Fullborn with 9th Heightening would be insane.  I just feel like having a Nightblood copy is pretty much an I Win button.  

I'll figure it out.  But def going 9th Heightening.  

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Nightblood was steel before being awakened. What I'm saying is that Nightblood has some funny buisness going on that we do not fully understand yet.

Ah, good.  Well, considering all of our characters are worldhoppers, and we are all mixing varoius kinds of Investiture, I'd say it's certainly plausible, particularly with the 9th Heightening.  The 6th gives you instinctive Awakening, and every level above that makes it more powerful, and easier to intuit more complicated commands.  So knowing Nightblood was Steel, and knowing we are all worldhoppers with multiple forms of Investiture, Imma say yeah, I can prolly sus it out.  
 

I'll keep working on it, though.  I'm not completely satisfied.  This kind of stuff always keeps me up late, lol. 

[The Unknown Order he/him]

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

With the 9th heightening, you can instinctivly Awaken, and you can awaken Stone and Steel.  Shashara was the 9th Heightening when creating Nightblood, and he only had one simple comand, "Destroy Evil."  It takes 1000 breaths, which the 9th heightening has in droves.  Technically, I could create an entire suit of Awakened Armor.  

Nightblood isn't pure Awakening, there were extenuating circumstances regarding his creation.

[Ashbringer he/him]

36 minutes ago, Frustration said:

@Ashbringer Lerasium Mistborn are 3-4 times stronger than regular.

True, but assuming equal skill level I wonder how many metals that extra strength helps in for pure combat. Pewter and Steel definitely; Iron, Bendalloy, Cadmium, and Electrum probably, Copper and Bronze for my specific strategy... the rest? I don't even know what extra strength in Chromium or Duralumin would do, and some are just not helpful.

I think I also made the assumption that stronger Allomancy wouldn't result in stronger Compounding, which may be faulty. But Compounding is near-limitless either way, and in a fight I'd put a Fullborn who can't use their Allomantic abilities (but can Compound) over a Mistborn. Well, besides that the Mistborn could just fly away, but that doesn't win the fight on its own.

 

28 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

Yeah, a Fullborn can compound Bendalloy, but it also costs almost 400 points.  If I wanted to be a Fullborn and a 9th Heightening Awakener, I'd spend almost 800 points.  Not enough to grab a 4th Oath and be an Elantrian.  The main point was to use the Metalic Arts to fuel the others via Bendalloy compounding, grab Nightblood or something similar, and still have enough to get Elantrian (for the Aons) to cover any additional abilities. And I had enough to grab a few Medallions and an Aether.  Couldn't do all that if I was a Fullborn as well. 

I meant more that a Fullborn could set up their own bendalloy bubble to counter the bendalloy-inside-cadmium trick, once they figured it out. The rest I think I got. I am very interested to see where F-Bendalloy goes in the world of Lifts and Luhel bonds 

I'm also wondering if I should scrap something to get Shardplate, which would probably be downgrading to a regular Mistborn. But then Lerasium can break my coppercloud most likely.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Ashbringer

[Tglassy]

1 hour ago, The Known Novel said:

Nightblood isn't pure Awakening, there were extenuating circumstances regarding his creation.

Sure, but he was also created by a worldhopper with the 9th Heightening, likely mixing various investitures.  If we can have Dawnshards, I can have a Nightblood copy.  

Edit: Also, Dustbringers are aparently tinkerers, according to the Coppermind.  They like to figure out how things work.  

Edited January 10, 2023 by Tglassy

[therunner he/him]

3 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Sure, but he was also created by a worldhopper with the 9th Heightening, likely mixing various investitures.  If we can have Dawnshards, I can have a Nightblood copy.  

Edit: Also, Dustbringers are aparently tinkerers, according to the Coppermind.  They like to figure out how things work.  

Well, it is possible shard was somehow involved in creation of Nightblood, so mixing Investitures might not be enough (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360/#e10871)