Personal Writing Project

Tglassy · January 30, 2023

I'm an amateur writer. Never been published, but I've written a few books. None are polished enough to let anyone read, but I've written them.

Anywho, I haven't written Fan Fiction since I was 16 years old way back in 2003. I didn't even know fan fiction was a thing. I just loved the storylines in the Megaman X games so much, I wanted it to be in a written form. So I wrote a bunch of them.

And then we finally got reliable internet and I found out that Fan FIction is this whole thing and a million people had written stories exacly like mine. Kinda killed the mood for me. I realized I'd never be able to sell any of it, so what was the point? Made more sense to write something original.

And I have. I just never truly finish anything. And over the last few years just getting myself to sit down and write has become a chore. I never stop coming up with new ideas and rolling them over in my head until they make sense, but I never actually write anything.

So I'm trying to find the fun in writing again. And I decided, maybe I could dip my finger in some Fan Fiction. Part of the reason I never get started writing is because I'm world building so much. I have over two dozen settings, complete with their own magic systems and political climates and all kinds of stuff, but I never get to the story. Well, if I do some Fan Fiction, I can skip all that and just go to the story.

So I've decided to write a Fan Fiction set on Scadrial, in the second era of the Mistborn Series. The Main Character will be a Twinborn, double Pewter, because I want to explore what that means. I'm in the process of developing his backstory, but I do know I want him to be a Lawman in the Roughs. That's what interests me about Wax, and I'd like to explore that, though he doesn't start there.

Here's what I have so far. I want him to be more middle class. We've had Wax, a noble, and Wayne, an urchin. I'd rather explore what it means for a working/middle class family to have a Twinborn child, and who he becomes. I actually plan for him to have a number of siblings, at least one of which is a Twinborn with a useless Allomantic ability (I'm thinking A-Duralumin/F-Zinc), and maybe ferrings/mistings as well. I want to see some of the less used abilities, and making his sibling a Twinborn, but one ability is useless, could provide a good dichotomy to a Compounder of one of the more potent metals.

His Father is a Copper Ferring and a record keeper or accountant or something similar, and I'm thinking his mother is a Soother. I figure any Allomancer/Feruchemist will be very marketable in Elendel, so even if they aren't nobility, they should be fairly well off, but they would also be working class. Their options are wider than others, but they do have to work.

The main character's name will be Hank Sterling, and before he came in to his power, he was a thin, scrawny kid. Even as he grew up, he was the kind of kid that could never seem to keep any weight on him, no matter how much he ate. I've known some people like that, and I envy them. He'll come in to his Feruchemy first, and that's great, cause he can make himself jacked! Except he's already scrawny, so saving enough Strength to bulk up for ANY length of time is a chore. I'm thinking his Allomantic power Snaps later than most, and so he thinks he's just a Pewter Feruchemist until he's a teenager, and then he snaps at an appropriately dramatic moment and oh my goodness, his metals match! Should make an interesting story.

I do have some questions I think the hive mind might know better than me. It's fan fiction, but I do want to be as accurate as possible. I don't want it to be just wish fulfillment with a Gary Stu.

1. Snapping. How does it work in Era 2? I know the Mist snaps you, but at what age? And what are the side effects? I assume it's similar to what it did in Era 1, just more gentle. And does your Feruchemy also Snap at the same time, or is that something seperate?

2. Bulletproof. First, assume that he can compound his Allomantic Pewter strength so can grow strong without increasing his muscle size. How strong would human muscle need to be to block a bullet? I know this isn't possible no matter how strong it is for a normal person, and I know that Pewterminds store Strength, not Durability, but my thought process is that if a person were strong enough to lift a train car, then hitting them with a hammer while hulked out isn't going to do much. The muscle would be strong enough to resist being torn or moved.  LIkewise, at some point the muscle fibers should be strong enough to stop a bullet, right? I imagine he would blow through the vast majority of his stored strength doing so, as he wouldn't have access to infinite strength at the moment, just be able to completely fill extremely large metalminds, but it should be possible, shouldn't it?

3. Family. I'd assume in a setting like Elendel, having a known Allomancer marry a known Feruchemist and have a number of children would be, like, news, even if they aren't nobility. In fact I'd imagine it would be encouraged. But we don't really get that from the books. Wax' Uncle seemed intent on ignoring the fact that Wax was part Terris. Like there is some discrimination between them. And most Terris seem to stick to themselves, away from everyone else, though obviously not all. How would Elendel society treat them?

4. Resonence. What resonence would twin pewter have? I know these are subtle, but supposedly every time someone combines the powers, there's a resonence of some kind.

I don't know if there's any answers to these questions in the books, but I thought the Hive mind might know more than me. I'll probably post what I write in the Fan Art section of this site, if anyone's interested. Once I get an idea of how the plot should go.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Tglassy

Werewolff Studios · January 31, 2023

23 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

This sounds like a wonderfully fascinating read mate! Glad to hear that you're trying to find the fun in writing again - I think that's wonderful!

I'll do my best to answer your questions with my current level of understanding of the setting.

1. I think this is up to your own interpretation. The way I've imagined it is that Snapping's no longer triggered by intense trauma specifically, but rather it's more like the mist sickness. A potential Allomancer is drawn to the Mists and accept a part of them into themselves, similar to inhaling Stormlight. When they inhale the Mists, it causes the change of the Spiritweb, and they become an Allomancer.

2. This seems possible to me. I'd imagine it's similar to the villain Muscular from My Hero Academia - his muscle fibers would become dense enough to deal with the incoming blows. The exact figure eludes me though - would have to run some calculations, but I reckon it'd be possible.

3. I feel that Elendel society would treat them more by what they did with their abilities then their history. I believe the broadsheets mention Steelrunners working in local diners, and Wayne's father wasn't given much attention seeing as he worked in the mines, despite being Terris. Elendel as a whole might be a little hesitant, but ultimately I don't believe they'd be discriminatory or anything like that.

4. Pure theory crafting, but I feel the resonance would have something to do with strengthening specific physical features. Like, rather than having all of their strength come out and they grow really large, they could strengthen just their arms, or hands, or legs etc; using less of their stored attribute overall.

Hope that helps! Looking forward to seeing what others come up with.

Tglassy · January 31, 2023

11 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

1. I think this is up to your own interpretation. The way I've imagined it is that Snapping's no longer triggered by intense trauma specifically, but rather it's more like the mist sickness. A potential Allomancer is drawn to the Mists and accept a part of them into themselves, similar to inhaling Stormlight. When they inhale the Mists, it causes the change of the Spiritweb, and they become an Allomancer.

That's kind of how I viewed it. I can imagine every kid going out into the Mists every time it shows, hoping they'll get a power. Even the kids who have no Allomantic blood, just hoping that somewhere in their family tree is a secret allomancer no one knows about! And the disappointment, and eventual resignation, when they don't. I can also imagine this being double for anyone who has Feruchemical powers, hoping to be a Twinborn.

We know that Wax snapped before he was 12, but I kind of want this kid to be a late bloomer. One who didn't snap until he was, like, 15 or 16. By that point, he's already given up the idea of snapping. That way, it can be dramatic.

11 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

2. This seems possible to me. I'd imagine it's similar to the villain Muscular from My Hero Academia - his muscle fibers would become dense enough to deal with the incoming blows. The exact figure eludes me though - would have to run some calculations, but I reckon it'd be possible.

If anyone wants to do the math, that would be great. Otherwise, I'll probably just leave the math out of it and have it be an all or nothing deal. He's about to get shot up, and he draws ALL his strength for a few moments, and during those few moments, he's bullet proof, and after, he has little or no strength left. It gives a great ability to a clear limit. It only works for a few short seconds, and then he's left near helpless, and has to spend a day compounding a ton to get his Strength reserves back.

But if there IS some math that says "Oh, when the muscles are x stronger, they can stop a bullet", then I'm all ears!

11 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

3. I feel that Elendel society would treat them more by what they did with their abilities then their history. I believe the broadsheets mention Steelrunners working in local diners, and Wayne's father wasn't given much attention seeing as he worked in the mines, despite being Terris. Elendel as a whole might be a little hesitant, but ultimately I don't believe they'd be discriminatory or anything like that.

The Terris might be more discriminatory than others, judging by Wax's grandma, but yeah, that's kind of how I was thinking.

11 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

4. Pure theory crafting, but I feel the resonance would have something to do with strengthening specific physical features. Like, rather than having all of their strength come out and they grow really large, they could strengthen just their arms, or hands, or legs etc; using less of their stored attribute overall.

THAT's an interesting idea. Selective strength growth. Probably something he'd learn down the line, but that's very interesting.

Treamayne · January 31, 2023

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

I'm an amateur writer. Never been published, but I've written a few books. None are polished enough to let anyone read, but I've written them.

<snip>

So I'm trying to find the fun in writing again. And I decided, maybe I could dip my finger in some Fan Fiction. Part of the reason I never get started writing is because I'm world building so much. I have over two dozen settings, complete with their own magic systems and political climates and all kinds of stuff, but I never get to the story. Well, if I do some Fan Fiction, I can skip all that and just go to the story.

Have you checked out Fan Story? Sure, it a bit of a micro-transaction site; but it's a good way to solicit feedback from anonymous users (or develop a writing group) and you can trade time instead of money, by providing reviews (instead of buying points) to earn the points to display your own work for reviews.

Also, have you checked out books like Fiction Writer's Brainstormer? I'm sure it's not the only one, but it's the kind to book that has tools to help with the "business" of plotting, writing, and editing. Even if you don't use the specific tools, it helps you to learn how you work and develop your own tools tailored to your needs.

Quote

So I've decided to write a Fan Fiction set on Scadrial, in the second era of the Mistborn Series. The Main Character will be a Twinborn, double Pewter, because I want to explore what that means. I'm in the process of developing his backstory, but I do know I want him to be a Lawman in the Roughs. That's what interests me about Wax, and I'd like to explore that, though he doesn't start there.

Awesome, good luck to you.

Quote

I want him to be more middle class. We've had Wax, a noble, and Wayne, an urchin. I'd rather explore what it means for a working/middle class family to have a Twinborn child, and who he becomes. I actually plan for him to have a number of siblings, at least one of which is a Twinborn with a useless Allomantic ability (I'm thinking A-Duralumin/F-Zinc), and maybe ferrings/mistings as well. I want to see some of the less used abilities, and making his sibling a Twinborn, but one ability is useless, could provide a good dichotomy to a Compounder of one of the more potent metals.

His Father is a Copper Ferring and a record keeper or accountant or something similar, and I'm thinking his mother is a Soother. I figure any Allomancer/Feruchemist will be very marketable in Elendel, so even if they aren't nobility, they should be fairly well off, but they would also be working class. Their options are wider than others, but they do have to work.

That is a lot of metalborn in only two generations of one family. Remember Straff had dozens of children (by almost as many concubines) just to get 5 or 6 mistings and, eventually Zane. This is a huge strain on credulity before the writing has started. It's easy to believe "Misting meets ferring, fall in love and have a twinborn child." It is very difficult to believe "Metal born are rare, but meet the Kholins of Scadrial - who the genetic lottery decreed every family member is a misting or ferring."

Quote

1. Snapping. How does it work in Era 2? I know the Mist snaps you, but at what age? And what are the side effects? I assume it's similar to what it did in Era 1, just more gentle. And does your Feruchemy also Snap at the same time, or is that something separate?

I don't think the mists have much, if anything, to do with Snapping now. The only confirmed information we have on Era 2 Snapping is:

Spoiler

Quote

Fyodor32768

In Alloy of Law, are people still Snapping?

Brandon Sanderson

Sazed chose to alter the way Snapping works. It bothered him. It does happen, but differently.

Quote

Storm Cellar

We know Snapping is not the same in Mistborn Era 2. We know Wayne knew he was a slider, but could not afford bendalloy for his early life. How do the poor skaa know they can burn rare metals? Is there a ceremony, or a formal process of testing skaa for metal powers?

(The assumption is that nobles can just give their children a mix of metals to see if any of them are reactive.)

Brandon Sanderson

There are lots of ways--remember that lots of groups are seeing Allomancy as valuable to them, and are actively recruiting. There's no formal process, at least not for everyone, though some houses do have them. But there are events, even at fairs and the like, where you can get a vial and see if you feel anything--in exchange for promises of service if you do turn out to have abilities. Beyond that, just like getting gold foil to put on food is not horribly expensive in our world, getting little bits of many of these metals is not THAT expensive. It may not give you enough power to do anything useful, but it can be enough to tell.

Quote

Oversleep

Is it possible to Soothe/Riot so hard that the person Snaps due to extreme emotions caused by emotional Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

I hadn't considered, but yes, that should work.

Quote

2. Bulletproof. First, assume that he can compound his Allomantic Pewter strength so can grow strong without increasing his muscle size. How strong would human muscle need to be to block a bullet? I know this isn't possible no matter how strong it is for a normal person, and I know that Pewterminds store Strength, not Durability, but my thought process is that if a person were strong enough to lift a train car, then hitting them with a hammer while hulked out isn't going to do much. The muscle would be strong enough to resist being torn or moved. LIkewise, at some point the muscle fibers should be strong enough to stop a bullet, right? I imagine he would blow through the vast majority of his stored strength doing so, as he wouldn't have access to infinite strength at the moment, just be able to completely fill extremely large metalminds, but it should be possible, shouldn't it?

I would expect it to be the opposite, if Muscle were dense enough to stop bullets, it would probably be unable to move at all (much less move with more strength). Strength of muscle comes from elasticity - the ability to expand and contract along the long axis (thereby moving the joint to perform work). Check out EAP fibers as artificial muscles. So, like a rubber band, if all the strength is on the long axis, then it is more prone to harm on the short axis (like how easily a rubber band is snipped from the side - especially while stretched).

This is also why competitive bodybuilders are seriously prone to torn muscle and ligament injuries while training. Having had a torn hamstring (and the nine months of PT needed after I got off of crutches) I can tell you it is not an easy injury to overcome.

The "Muscles so strong that bullets bounce," is a Superman fantasy trope, but doesn't hold up to biology or physics at all. Especially not to the degree that Sanderson designs his magic systems.

Quote

3. Family. I'd assume in a setting like Elendel, having a known Allomancer marry a known Feruchemist and have a number of children would be, like, news, even if they aren't nobility. In fact I'd imagine it would be encouraged. But we don't really get that from the books. Wax' Uncle seemed intent on ignoring the fact that Wax was part Terris. Like there is some discrimination between them. And most Terris seem to stick to themselves, away from everyone else, though obviously not all. How would Elendel society treat them?

From what we know, so far, the Terris are so insular because they are trying to reverse the genetic dilution so that Full Feruchemists can be born again. I would imagine a Ferring (especially middle-class without the "noble marriage duty" excuse) that deliberately turned their back on that would suffer social fallout from, at least, a very vocal portion the Terris community.

TLM Spoiler:

Spoiler

If your story is after the events of TLM, then there would be additional fallout for "being like that insane Set cult trying to breed metalborn"

Quote

4. Resonance. What resonance would twin pewter have? I know these are subtle, but supposedly every time someone combines the powers, there's a resonance of some kind.

I don't know that we have enough Resonance examples to find a likely answer - but I also get the feeling that while SA resonances are fairly standard, Metalborn resonances may be more individualized by, not only which powers you have, but also how you tend to employ them (i.e. I don't think a different Crasher would necessarily end up with the same Resonance Wax developed).

I think you should let the character develop and see where that leads - then let the direction develop into how you use a possible Resonance.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

Tglassy · January 31, 2023

4 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Have you checked out Fan Story? Sure, it a bit of a micro-transaction site; but it's a good way to solicit feedback from anonymous users (or develop a writing group) and you can trade time instead of money, by providing reviews (instead of buying points) to earn the points to display your own work for reviews.

Also, have you checked out books like Fiction Writer's Brainstormer? I'm sure it's not the only one, but it's the kind to book that has tools to help with the "business" of plotting, writing, and editing. Even if you don't use the specific tools, it helps you to learn how you work and develop your own tools tailored to your needs.

I've been writing for nearly twenty years, and have done a ton of research and study on stories and plotting and whatnot. I've got three books behind me, and a number of short stories. I even won a few short story contests, not that that matters much. My main issue is just sitting down and writing. I seem to have lost my followthrough somewhere along the way.

4 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

That is a lot of metalborn in only two generations of one family. Remember Straff had dozens of children (by almost as many concubines) just to get 5 or 6 mistings and, eventually Zane. This is a huge strain on credulity before the writing has started. It's easy to believe "Misting meets ferring, fall in love and have a twinborn child." It is very difficult to believe "Metal born are rare, but meet the Kholins of Scadrial - who the genetic lottery decreed every family member is a misting or ferring."

You are 100% right, and I had completely forgotten that fact. I will reevaluate. Thank you! That's just the stuff I'm looking for.

4 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I would expect it to be the opposite, if Muscle were dense enough to stop bullets, it would probably be unable to move at all (much less move with more strength). Strength of muscle comes from elasticity - the ability to expand and contract along the long axis, thereby moving the joint to perform work). Check out EAP fibers as artificial muscles. So, like a rubber band, if all the strength is on the long axis, then it is more prone to harm on the short axis (like how easily a rubber band is snipped from the side, especially while stretched). This is also why competitive bodybuilders are seriously prone to torn muscle and ligament injuries while training. Having had a torn hamstring (and the nine months of PT needed after I got off of crutches) I can tell you it is not an easy injury to overcome.

The "Muscles so strong that bullets bounce," is a Superman fantasy trope, but doesn't hold up to biology or physics at all. Especially not to the degree that Sanderson designs his magic systems.

I wouldn't look to body builders for this, as they are working to increase size, and if strength, then strength to do one parituclar type of lift. I was thinking more like marines, who do body hardening exercieses so they can withstand stronger hits. I knew a marine who did that, anyway. If you contract the muscle, and your muscle is strong enough, then when something hits it, it doesn't hurt as much as it would if the muscle were loose. I can tighten my abs and take a punch, but if they were loose I'd get the wind knocked out of me.

I'm assuming the same kind of thing would work for a bullet. Yes, real people can't do this, but if you could pull an infinite amount of strength, then the muscle fibers should, at some point, become strong enough to resist the bullet. My main question is, at what point would that happen. To be honest, I probably will just go with "He'll have to pull all his strength out and flex every muscle as hard as he can to withstand a bullet, and it'll only last a few seconds", just so there's a cool ability with a huge limitation. But we are dealing with Magic here. Wax can knock down a building all on his lonesome. Miles can eat a grenade and walk away a few moments later. Strengthening your muscles to the point where a bullet would only penetrate the skin isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Treamayne · January 31, 2023

21 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

I wouldn't look to body builders for this, as they are working to increase size, and if strength, then strength to do one particular type of lift. I was thinking more like marines, who do body hardening exercieses so they can withstand stronger hits. I knew a marine who did that, anyway.

Body builders aren't just the Schwarzennegger "get as much size as possible" Mr. Olympia types - they are also the Jet Li "lean and strong" types. And I'd bet your Marine friend was also a body builder, just as I lifted weights for most of my military career. But a lot of that is beside the point.

Quote

If you contract the muscle, and your muscle is strong enough, then when something hits it, it doesn't hurt as much as it would if the muscle were loose. I can tighten my abs and take a punch, but if they were loose I'd get the wind knocked out of me.

This is a common misconception based on story and rumor (and also plays a role in Houdini's death). What's happening when you tighten your abs to take a hit (and prevent being winded) is the energy received is spread across the abdominus (with it's unique cross hatch structure) to spread the force rather than it traveling to the diaphragm (which is how somebody is normally winded when struck in the high-abdomen - the diaphragm presses against the lungs and expels the air). When you tense a biceps before getting hit, you get a rupture or a charlie horse.

That said - it's your story and your magic. Bullet tough muscles are a trope for a reason. However, based on what we know of compounding, I think you'd have a stronger rationale if your Twinborn "discovers" Reverse Compounding* and is able to feruchemically store (and access/multiply) Allomantic Pewter's "damage resistance" properties.

Spoiler

Under the proposed theory that - if Compunding is using Allomancy to fuel Feruchemical power; the Reverse Compounding would be some method of Storing Allomantic output (instead of the normal F-charge) so it can be tapped in multiples stronger than normal Allomancy.

alder24 · January 31, 2023

That's a great idea. It'll be fun to read.

12 hours ago, Tglassy said:

1. Snapping. How does it work in Era 2? I know the Mist snaps you, but at what age? And what are the side effects? I assume it's similar to what it did in Era 1, just more gentle. And does your Feruchemy also Snap at the same time, or is that something seperate?

There isn't much about it. Probably with some age people just get powers, most likely young age, like Wax was before he went to the village. Maybe it's happening in the mists.

12 hours ago, Tglassy said:

2. Bulletproof. First, assume that he can compound his Allomantic Pewter strength so can grow strong without increasing his muscle size. How strong would human muscle need to be to block a bullet? I know this isn't possible no matter how strong it is for a normal person, and I know that Pewterminds store Strength, not Durability, but my thought process is that if a person were strong enough to lift a train car, then hitting them with a hammer while hulked out isn't going to do much. The muscle would be strong enough to resist being torn or moved. LIkewise, at some point the muscle fibers should be strong enough to stop a bullet, right? I imagine he would blow through the vast majority of his stored strength doing so, as he wouldn't have access to infinite strength at the moment, just be able to completely fill extremely large metalminds, but it should be possible, shouldn't it?

It won't work. F-pewter gives strength by increasing muscle mass, but those muscles grow on your body, you become bigger, so the density of the muscles doesn't change. A-pewter just gives magical strength so it doesn't increase your body characteristics, it doesn't stop bullets or coins, it makes you able to withstand damage cause by them. Density of the muscles is around 1.06 kg/L, and the density of the water is exactly1 kg/L. Human body is 60%, muscles are around 75% water, so it makes sense that those tissues have similar density. You can't make muscles bulletproof. Even just bigger muscles won't stop a bullet, in Mythbusters they had 14in (35cm) muscle that didn't stop a bullet.

12 hours ago, Tglassy said:

3. Family. I'd assume in a setting like Elendel, having a known Allomancer marry a known Feruchemist and have a number of children would be, like, news, even if they aren't nobility. In fact I'd imagine it would be encouraged. But we don't really get that from the books. Wax' Uncle seemed intent on ignoring the fact that Wax was part Terris. Like there is some discrimination between them. And most Terris seem to stick to themselves, away from everyone else, though obviously not all. How would Elendel society treat them?

I think as a ferrings they would be welcomed in Terris as long as they don't use allomancy/use it to fight. Ferrings are just too rare to ignore them. Marrying an allomancer might worsen their relations however. But their kids would still be welcomed in the village, like Wax was, in hope that they would choose to stay there. I don't think that it would be a big news, judging that Wax's grandma may have done it. Elendel society would just ignore it. They are not noble afterall. Twinborn happens in Elendel, ferrings and mistings too, it isn't big news until you are involved in politics. Only Wax's grandma knew who was the steelrunner in the city, and that was the only one, and it wasn't big news in Elendel.

But as said before, that's a lot of powers, and twinborns for a single family. They are rare.

12 hours ago, Tglassy said:

4. Resonence. What resonence would twin pewter have? I know these are subtle, but supposedly every time someone combines the powers, there's a resonence of some kind.

I like the idea proposed by @Werewolff Studios

Tglassy · January 31, 2023

12 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Body builders aren't just the Schwarzennegger "get as much size as possible" Mr. Olympia types - they are also the Jet Li "lean and strong" types. And I'd bet your Marine friend was also a body builder, just as I lifted weights for most of my military career. But a lot of that is beside the point.

This is a common misconception based on story and rumor (and also plays a role in Houdini's death). What's happening when you tighten your abs to take a hit (and prevent being winded) is the energy received is spread across the abdominus (with it's unique cross hatch structure) to spread the force rather than it traveling to the diaphragm (which is how somebody is normally winded when struck in the high-abdomen - the diaphragm presses against the lungs and expels the air). When you tense a biceps before getting hit, you get a rupture or a charlie horse.

That said - it's your story and your magic. Bullet tough muscles are a trope for a reason. However, based on what we know of compounding, I think you'd have a stronger rationale if your Twinborn "discovers" Reverse Compounding* and is able to feruchemically store (and access/multiply) Allomantic Pewter's "damage resistance" properties.

Hide contents

Under the proposed theory that - if Compunding is using Allomancy to fuel Feruchemical power; the Reverse Compounding would be some method of Storing Allomantic output (instead of the normal F-charge) so it can be tapped in multiples stronger than normal Allomancy.

Hmm. Perhaps that would be the Resonance, then. See, my theory was always that you could store the excess strength given off by Allomancy, which doesn’t increase muscle size, thereby gaining the strength but without the downside.

But if “strength” includes “durability” for a Pewter Twinborn, then you’d also gain the increase in resistance to damage, the way Vin was able to crush a man’s head with her own, and only suffer a slight headache whereas the man suffered…somewhat more, lol.

That would be incredibly useful.

And yeah, I know “it’s my story so I can do what I want”, but I do want to stick as close to the lore as I can. I might play a TEENY bit loose with some things not mentioned, like how snapping works and whatnot, but I’d rather not go too far abroad. Being able to pull the majority of his Strength out at once in order to stop a bullet from killing him now and then would make for some interesting scenes, but I’ll probably make it so the bullets still penetrate, they just only go in an ainch or two before stopping.

And I will be reworking the family. I did like the idea of having Twinborn, Ferrings and Mistings who had useless powers, but they don’t have to be in his family. I’ve got an idea for a Twinborn who had A-Duralumin and F-Zinc. Basically, a fairly useful Feruchemical power, but their Allomancy is pointless. I figure there’s be shame in that, but mixed with a desire to have pride in it. I mean, they’re Twinborn! So few people are Twinborn! It’s not their fault they can’t DO anything with it. But I figure someone like that would be awfully tempted by Hemalurgy. Grab a spike granting allomancy, and all of a sudden they’ve got Duralumin enhanced abilities. Might make a good villain, eventually. Someone who’s hunting Mistings and Ferrings to take their abilities.

MangoBoi101 · January 31, 2023

I have a question relating to this, when you tap pewter you grow bigger so lets say you tap a large amount of it and grow as big as a car, then you get shot and the bullet goes 4 inches into your skin, what would happen to the bullet if you then returned to your normal size? would it be dropped out of your body somehow? or would it be carried into your smaller body and lodge there?

IlstrawberrySeed · January 31, 2023

@Tglassy, I would personally suggest going the shardblade vs chese route for stopping a bullet- the mussels don't stop the bullet from peircing, but the mussels provide resistence as you clench them, and resistance while puncturing the mussels themself. This still has consequences (friction and broken mussels, as well as infection), but doesn't kill you. Aditionally, AFAIK we don't have confirmation on how damaged FP mussels work when you stop tapping. Does the damage contort on to your regular body, or does it contaminate the pewtermind(s) your drawing from? As you get better with FP, and learn how to tap/store specific mussels (I would suggest this not be a resonance thing, but be like Kel and Steel/iron) can you store damaged mussels so you can seek medical aid before dealing with the consequences?

One thing to consider is how storing alomantic pewter works- If you burn pewter to give you *2/3/4 strength, and fill down to *.5, then tap that, do you get the *1.5 from fuerochemistry and the *2/3/4, or is the *2/3/4 considered the new maximum, so filling down to regular .5, then tapping would get you to 1.75/1.8R3/1.875. Can you stack allomantic pewter in a pwetermind by tapping an Allomantic Pewter Mind (APM) while filling an APM and burning pewter?

Resonance Ideas:

Their bulkiness is easier to maneuver around - more so than Pewter would normally account for.
Burning pewter allows tapping pewter to become denser than normal

Tglassy · January 31, 2023

17 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

@Tglassy, I would personally suggest going the shardblade vs chese route for stopping a bullet- the mussels don't stop the bullet from peircing, but the mussels provide resistence as you clench them, and resistance while puncturing the mussels themself. This still has consequences (friction and broken mussels, as well as infection), but doesn't kill you. Aditionally, AFAIK we don't have confirmation on how damaged FP mussels work when you stop tapping. Does the damage contort on to your regular body, or does it contaminate the pewtermind(s) your drawing from? As you get better with FP, and learn how to tap/store specific mussels (I would suggest this not be a resonance thing, but be like Kel and Steel/iron) can you store damaged mussels so you can seek medical aid before dealing with the consequences?

One thing to consider is how storing alomantic pewter works- If you burn pewter to give you *2/3/4 strength, and fill down to *.5, then tap that, do you get the *1.5 from fuerochemistry and the *2/3/4, or is the *2/3/4 considered the new maximum, so filling down to regular .5, then tapping would get you to 1.75/1.8R3/1.875. Can you stack allomantic pewter in a pwetermind by tapping an Allomantic Pewter Mind (APM) while filling an APM and burning pewter?

Resonance Ideas:

Their bulkiness is easier to maneuver around - more so than Pewter would normally account for.

Burning pewter allows tapping pewter to become denser than normal

Wonderful questions!

there are a couple ways I can see it happening.

1. It might be possible to differentiate between muscle strength and the strength provided by Allomancy. If that’s the case, then what you’re storing is Allomantic, Magic strength. Your muscles don’t get smaller when you store or bigger when you tap. It’s just strength.

2. You do get smaller when storing and bigger when tapping while burning AP. However, you are getting 2-4 times the bang for your buck. Compound that, and yes, you get bigger when tapping, but no where near as big. So, if you were tapping a regular Pewtermind with regular strength and you yourself to the size of Arnold in his Mr. Universe days, and then did the same with a Pewtermind filled with Allomantic Pewter, then the second would be the same SIZE as the first, but exponentially stronger. You’d have to draw out that much more Strength to do it, though. So you won’t want to make yourself that big. You can get the benefit without it.

The second option mitigates the downside of tapping Pewter, while the first negates it altogether. I think that it would be POSSIBLE to do the first, but it would take the right Intent. I think the second would be the default, kind of like steel pushing on a bullet. The default is to just push on the whole bullet, but with the right intent you can isolate it into it’s different parts.

Werewolff Studios · January 31, 2023

7 hours ago, Tglassy said:

And I will be reworking the family. I did like the idea of having Twinborn, Ferrings and Mistings who had useless powers, but they don’t have to be in his family. I’ve got an idea for a Twinborn who had A-Duralumin and F-Zinc. Basically, a fairly useful Feruchemical power, but their Allomancy is pointless. I figure there’s be shame in that, but mixed with a desire to have pride in it. I mean, they’re Twinborn! So few people are Twinborn! It’s not their fault they can’t DO anything with it. But I figure someone like that would be awfully tempted by Hemalurgy. Grab a spike granting allomancy, and all of a sudden they’ve got Duralumin enhanced abilities. Might make a good villain, eventually. Someone who’s hunting Mistings and Ferrings to take their abilities.

Y'know, this makes me think of how Aluminum and Duralumin Gnats work in terms of Twinborn and the intersecting of their powers with their Feruchemy.

Like, Allomantically it's pretty useless, as they're clearing or enhancing no other metals. However, I came across this WOB the other day and found it interesting.

Quote

Dwarven_Hydra

Would a Duralumin Gnat Surgebinder be able to use duralumin to do a super Surge?

Brandon Sanderson

This (Duralumin+Surgebinding) would work.
General Signed Books 2019 (July 2, 2019)

This makes me wonder if a Twinborn, with one of these two metals, would be able to delete or enhance their stored Attributes. Like, an Aluminum Twinborn erasing their stored attribute or a Duralumin Twinborn releasing it all in one explosive burst. In your characters case, with F-Zinc, I wonder if that'd give a moment of Tarvangian Diagram level intelligence.

In fairness, it's probably something that you'd have to train and most Gnat's wouldn't spend much time burning their metal, but it would allow for some really cool power interactions.

Tglassy · February 1, 2023

4 hours ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Y'know, this makes me think of how Aluminum and Duralumin Gnats work in terms of Twinborn and the intersecting of their powers with their Feruchemy.

Like, Allomantically it's pretty useless, as they're clearing or enhancing no other metals. However, I came across this WOB the other day and found it interesting.

This makes me wonder if a Twinborn, with one of these two metals, would be able to delete or enhance their stored Attributes. Like, an Aluminum Twinborn erasing their stored attribute or a Duralumin Twinborn releasing it all in one explosive burst. In your characters case, with F-Zinc, I wonder if that'd give a moment of Tarvangian Diagram level intelligence.

In fairness, it's probably something that you'd have to train and most Gnat's wouldn't spend much time burning their metal, but it would allow for some really cool power interactions.

The only thing there is that you can tap all of your metalmind at once anyway, so adding Duralumin wouldn't do anything. Remember, Duralumin doesn't actually give you MORE power, it just allows you to burn ALL of the metal at once, gaining all of the power at once. Feruchemists can already do that.

Now, it might still do that, but then it's just forcing you to use up all your metalmind instead of you just tapping it. Same result, different process.

Werewolff Studios · February 1, 2023

3 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

The only thing there is that you can tap all of your metalmind at once anyway, so adding Duralumin wouldn't do anything. Remember, Duralumin doesn't actually give you MORE power, it just allows you to burn ALL of the metal at once, gaining all of the power at once. Feruchemists can already do that.

Now, it might still do that, but then it's just forcing you to use up all your metalmind instead of you just tapping it. Same result, different process.

That's fair. I wonder though if Duralumin would negate the typical Feruchemical decay that you get from tapping all of the attribute at once, so the final result would be even stronger than a typical Feruchemist.

IlstrawberrySeed · February 1, 2023

I believe that durilium and necrosil both increase tapping speed without compressing the stored attribute. I believe there was a WoB about necrobursting someone tapping an attribute. I wonder what would happen if you necrobursted a filling person - do they fill at 100% rate, or insta fill (5k%ish), killing themselves?

21 hours ago, Tglassy said:

there are a couple ways I can see it happening.

I was more referring to how you handle the math of reverse compounding AP strength, and less about how it effects the mussels. It is a good question to ask Brandon - can you tap and fill the same attribute at once, and if you have a magical source of said attribute, can you stack it by tapping and filling?

One plot point could have to do with him visiting a necroburst to burst his pewter and fill a metalmind with it - so that by the inverse nature of decreasing returns, as he taps it slower than he filled it it will last longer.

Tglassy · February 5, 2023

On 2/1/2023 at 2:24 PM, IlstrawberrySeed said:

I believe that durilium and necrosil both increase tapping speed without compressing the stored attribute. I believe there was a WoB about necrobursting someone tapping an attribute. I wonder what would happen if you necrobursted a filling person - do they fill at 100% rate, or insta fill (5k%ish), killing themselves?

I was more referring to how you handle the math of reverse compounding AP strength, and less about how it effects the mussels. It is a good question to ask Brandon - can you tap and fill the same attribute at once, and if you have a magical source of said attribute, can you stack it by tapping and filling?

One plot point could have to do with him visiting a necroburst to burst his pewter and fill a metalmind with it - so that by the inverse nature of decreasing returns, as he taps it slower than he filled it it will last longer.

I would imagine that a Nicroburst would let him sill the metalmind faster, but not necessarily give MORE power. So, let's say you have enough Pewter to burn for ten minutes, and spend all ten minutes burning it and putting the Strength into a Metalmind. Then you get another dose of Pewter that would burn for 10 minutes, only have someone give you a Nicroburst when you started filling it. The two metalminds would have the same amount of power in them, but the one that was filled with a Nicroburst would have been filed instantly, instead of over ten mintues.

It would be a quick way to fill his metalminds, and perhaps one of his allies is a Nicrosil Misting, and he goes to him when he needs to compound quickly. Compounding does take time, after all. But with Nicrosil, it would take just a few minutes.

Current Changes:

Alright, based on a few things, here is what I have.

His parents are not Metalborn, but his grandfather on his mother's side is, and his father is Terris. His grandfather is a rancher, and is a Soother. He raises cattle near the city, something that is fairly easy to do in Elendel. He uses his abilities mostly to keep the animals calm when he has to work with them.

His parents live in the city, and are working class. They aren't wealthy, but they can afford a house and food and the like. He has a few siblings, but none of them are metalborn.

He is a scrawny kid. The kind who can't keep meat on his bones. But as a child, his heart was huge. He thought himself a mountain. The kind of kid who would stand up to a bully even though he's going to get beaten to a pulp, and after being beaten to a pulp would look down at his wounds and say "Wow, only great warriors have such scars." He's the kid from that song, The Greatest by Kenny Rogers. Great song. Go listen to it. Anyway, he isn't sickly, just scrawny. And as a kid, he's always getting in to scrapes with the other kids because he tries to protect other kids, but can't, cause he's basically Steve Rogers before the serum.

He's outside every time the Mists come, standing bravely, thinking this will be the day he Snaps. I'm going to say Snapping still requires the Mists, and it is essentially the same process, but just a lot more gentle, and it can happen as young as 8 years old, but sometimes happens much later, typically by the time you get out of puberty. Someone who never goes out in the Mists may snap later in life, as it will require the Mists.

But he's out there, every time the Mists come ,hoping every time, and it never happens. But he is not deterred.

Then, when he's about 8 or 9 years old or so, he finds out he's a Ferring. Pewter! It's his dream come true! He'll be the strongest man in the world! Only...he's scrawny. Storing Strength takes FOREVER. But he is undeterred! He saves all the strength he can muster. He's given a gift from his father, a Pewter Ring, and he puts everything he can into it. So much so, that he's constantly late for school, or has a hard time getting down the stairs, or doing anything, cause he's always storing what strength he can.

And it isn't a lot. But for brief moments, he can tap it and be strong, like he's always seen himself. He is undeterred.

Tragidy strikes. His parents are killed when he's around 12 years old. He and his siblings (of which he is the middle child) go to live on the ranch with his grandpa. His world shaken, because he couldn't protect them. He starts working on the farm, while storing strength at the same time. He never really stops, except when he's sleeping, but he wakes in the morning and instinctively stores his strength. He leaves enough of it to let him do his chores, but he's never any stronger than that. He still has his Pewter Ring, but also a Pewter Bracer. Oh he'll tap it when he needs to, but he tries not to as much as possible. He can only store so much, after all, and he may need it to protect someone else. You see, he was out of Pewter when his parents died. He doesn't want to make that same mistake again.

He learns a lot on the ranch. The simple pleasure of hard work. His grandfather is a good role model. His older sibling goes off to live with the Terris, his younger stays on the farm.

There's going to be some big event when he's around 15-16. Bandits perhaps. He's forced to use his Strength. And he does. He manages to beat them back. But he uses all of his Strength in the process. And when all his strength is empty, he learns something interesting.

He's no longer scrawny. In fact, he's rather well toned. For four years, he's worked hard on the farm, but not allowed his mucles to grow. All that time, his base strength has grown, but he always shunted it into the Pewtermind. So he isn't scrawny anymore. He's got the physique of a farmer. He's not large, he'll never be naturally large, but tone and strong and used to hard work.

There's going to be a big climax of some kind. Maybe a larger bandit raid (perhaps the previous attack was just a small portion of a larger group) or something. Not sure yet. Either way, it's during this that the Mists come out, and he finally snaps. And when he snaps, he learns that he now has Allomantic Pewter.

He knows the theory behind Compounding, and he's been storing strength for years. He uses his newfound strength to beat whoever it is that's attacking. I'll probably have some Koloss there, just to show his relative strength at this point.

That's one story arch. It's all backstory, but I think it could make an interesting read if done right.

Questions:

Ok, this is a bit much. However. I have this scene in my head where, later down the line as he's gotten in to his career and become an expert with his two powers, there's a train car that gets off the track, and they call him to come help put it back on. I see him walking up, putting on a Breastplate made of Pewter, two bracers on his arms, two armbands on his biceps, and bracers on his legs, all completley full of strength, going under the train, tapping all of it, and lifting the train off the ground on his shoulders, moving it the however many feat to the track, and letting it back down, nearly draining all his Strength reserves doing it. I think it could be a good prologue to the story, to show where he's going to be, then the rest of the story shows how he got there.

Train cars weigh upwards of 285,000 lbs. The average man who spends 3 months weight training can dead lift 285 lbs. That means he'd have to be literally 1,000 times the strength of an average man for those few moments. That seems a little outside what Feruchemy can do, given that there's some degredation of power as you tap too much. I mean, there is a part of me that says it should be possible with Compounding, and with using Allomantic Strength rather than regular Strength, so the muscles don't get as big.

Perhaps, if he had a Nicroburst ally around to help him? A way to get around that degredation of power that comes when tapping too much? I just want an enormous feat of strength that boggles the mind as an introduction to this power. Wax knocked down an entire building because he made himself heavier than the building and then pushed on the nails, and that was without Compounding. Miles ate a grenade and walked away from it a moment later. Bleeder moved so fast that a Speed Bubble looked like it was moving at the same speed. And when Sazed fought the Koloss, regular Feruchemical Pewter turned a bookworm scholar into a force that could kill dozens of Koloss with a single punch each. I feel like something like this is within the perameters of what Brandon has written, I just want y'all opinion before I go forward with it.

alder24 · February 5, 2023

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

His grandfather is a rancher, and is a Soother. He raises cattle near the city, something that is fairly easy to do in Elendel. He uses his abilities mostly to keep the animals calm when he has to work with them.

That's great. I love the idea of using metalic arts in daily activities.

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

There's going to be some big event when he's around 15-16. Bandits perhaps. He's forced to use his Strength. And he does. He manages to beat them back. But he uses all of his Strength in the process. And when all his strength is empty, he learns something interesting.

He's no longer scrawny. In fact, he's rather well toned. For four years, he's worked hard on the farm, but not allowed his mucles to grow. All that time, his base strength has grown, but he always shunted it into the Pewtermind. So he isn't scrawny anymore. He's got the physique of a farmer. He's not large, he'll never be naturally large, but tone and strong and used to hard work.

Good idea. But if he stores strength for 4 years non stop, he would have insane amount of strength. He could easily deal with hundreds of bandits. Sazed in WoA has a very limited amount of strength and yet he killed hundreds of koloss, without using strength from his ring, that has been collected in the last 2 weeks or so. How about some bandits manage to rip his pewter bracer out of him, and take that with him, limiting him to strength in his ring only, which runs out far quicker? You can later use that bracer in the climax.

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

There's going to be a big climax of some kind. Maybe a larger bandit raid (perhaps the previous attack was just a small portion of a larger group) or something. Not sure yet. Either way, it's during this that the Mists come out, and he finally snaps. And when he snaps, he learns that he now has Allomantic Pewter.

How about bandits from the raid kidnaping his siblings and wounding his grandpa? There is nobody who can help him, and he has to go alone to save his siblings. He has almost no strength stored, and is on the ticking clock. He manages to find bandits, kill a few of them, and regain his bracer, which still stores a lot of strength. However even this ends after defeating a lot of bandits, there are some still left, but he has no attribute left - that where the mist fills the building (it was damaged during fight) and snaps him. He has some slight amounts of pewter, maybe from drinking and eating from pewter cups and plates like Vin, and he realized what he now is - he swallows his ring, and compounds pewter, defeating the last of the bandits with this.

I would also incorporate religion into it. Maybe his childish motivation was because of Kelsier influence, mist protecting, giving power etc - it would pay off nicely when he snaps. It would also give another reason for him to desire powers, as he wants to be like Kelsier and protect those he loves.

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Ok, this is a bit much. However. I have this scene in my head where, later down the line as he's gotten in to his career and become an expert with his two powers, there's a train car that gets off the track, and they call him to come help put it back on. I see him walking up, putting on a Breastplate made of Pewter, two bracers on his arms, two armbands on his biceps, and bracers on his legs, all completley full of strength, going under the train, tapping all of it, and lifting the train off the ground on his shoulders, moving it the however many feat to the track, and letting it back down, nearly draining all his Strength reserves doing it. I think it could be a good prologue to the story, to show where he's going to be, then the rest of the story shows how he got there.

Prologue? naaah, spoiling the ending straightforward at the very beginning make me grind my teeth (I’m looking at you ~~Dune~~) How about the epilogue? Sounds cool. I wonder however if strength alone would make his bones withstand the insane weight of the train (better locomotive than car, much much heavier), but if it's allomantic strength it might be possible. And make sure he has some small pewter balls for swallowing and compounding. While pewter armor sounds cool, while moving train car it's useless besides providing attributes. In fight I can see it being used by Coinshooters or Lurchers. Pewter is a malleable and soft metal, so it wouldn't be of much use as an armor. But some kind of pewter gauntlets or small body armor parts for fist fights would be much better for fistfighters and melee. But you decide of course.

https://www.makeitfrom.com/compare/AISI-304N-S30451-Stainless-Steel/Type-2-L13912-Sheet-Pewter

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Train cars weigh upwards of 285,000 lbs. The average man who spends 3 months weight training can dead lift 285 lbs. That means he'd have to be literally 1,000 times the strength of an average man for those few moments. That seems a little outside what Feruchemy can do, given that there's some degredation of power as you tap too much. I mean, there is a part of me that says it should be possible with Compounding, and with using Allomantic Strength rather than regular Strength, so the muscles don't get as big.

He can push it back on track, and lift one side of it to place it on the tracks, and he repeats it 4 times for each corner? It might be even better if he was traveling in this train when it derailed, and he jumps into action. Maybe first holding two cars together to stop them from separating and falling down the hill, and later pushing the locomotive or another car back on track, rather than lifting it. Because that's what heroes do.

Tglassy · February 5, 2023

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

That's great. I love the idea of using metalic arts in daily activities.

Thank you.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Good idea. But if he stores strength for 4 years non stop, he would have insane amount of strength. He could easily deal with hundreds of bandits. Sazed in WoA has a very limited amount of strength and yet he killed hundreds of koloss, without using strength from his ring, that has been collected in the last 2 weeks or so. How about some bandits manage to rip his pewter bracer out of him, and take that with him, limiting him to strength in his ring only, which runs out far quicker? You can later use that bracer in the climax.

That might work. My thought was that because he was so scrawny, even storing for years he just didn’t have much strength. But I’ll see what works when I get to that point.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

How about bandits from the raid kidnaping his siblings and wounding his grandpa? There is nobody who can help him, and he has to go alone to save his siblings. He has almost no strength stored, and is on the ticking clock. He manages to find bandits, kill a few of them, and regain his bracer, which still stores a lot of strength. However even this ends after defeating a lot of bandits, there are some still left, but he has no attribute left - that where the mist fills the building (it was damaged during fight) and snaps him. He has some slight amounts of pewter, maybe from drinking and eating from pewter cups and plates like Vin, and he realized what he now is - he swallows his ring, and compounds pewter, defeating the last of the bandits with this.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I would also incorporate religion into it. Maybe his childish motivation was because of Kelsier influence, mist protecting, giving power etc - it would pay off nicely when he snaps. It would also give another reason for him to desire powers, as he wants to be like Kelsier and protect those he loves.

Those are some good plot beats. I’ll def consider those as I write.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Prologue? naaah, spoiling the ending straightforward at the very beginning make me grind my teeth (I’m looking at you ~~Dune~~) How about the epilogue? Sounds cool. I wonder however if strength alone would make his bones withstand the insane weight of the train (better locomotive than car, much much heavier), but if it's allomantic strength it might be possible. And make sure he has some small pewter balls for swallowing and compounding. While pewter armor sounds cool, while moving train car it's useless besides providing attributes. In fight I can see it being used by Coinshooters or Lurchers. Pewter is a malleable and soft metal, so it wouldn't be of much use as an armor. But some kind of pewter gauntlets or small body armor parts for fist fights would be much better for fistfighters and melee. But you decide of course.

https://www.makeitfrom.com/compare/AISI-304N-S30451-Stainless-Steel/Type-2-L13912-Sheet-Pewter

He can push it back on track, and lift one side of it to place it on the tracks, and he repeats it 4 times for each corner? It might be even better if he was traveling in this train when it derailed, and he jumps into action. Maybe first holding two cars together to stop them from separating and falling down the hill, and later pushing the locomotive or another car back on track, rather than lifting it. Because that's what heroes do.

Yeah, the whole point of the breastplate is for a huge store of Strength. It would do diddly for protection. Though, being invested to the hilt, it should be mostly immune to coin shots and lurchers. And even if they could push or pull off it, they’d be the ones moving.

I’ll figure out where to put this last scene. In my usual way, I’ve got a whole huge story arch in my head, complete with this story of him growing up and some other meta plots later as he’s making a living and experimenting with his powers. Down the like maybe he gets ahold of a medallion or two, maybe gets spiked. Maybe winds up in the CR and meets a traveling Horneater. Who knows? One thing at a time. It’s meant to be a fun exercise and since I don’t have to worry about the setting or Magic system, besides a few little things, I can just focus on story.

alder24 · February 5, 2023

29 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

That might work. My thought was that because he was so scrawny, even storing for years he just didn’t have much strength. But I’ll see what works when I get to that point.

The best way is to put this in numbers. Like e.g. up until the year he started working on the farm, he had a strength of 0.6 of that of an average man, and each year of working on the farm gave him an additional 0.1. If he stores strength every time he isn't asleep, he stores it for 16-18h a day. Put a number on the percentage of strength stored, and you can vaguely estimate how much strength he would have after all those years. I bet it would still be a lot still. And the unit of storing would be something like 50% strength per 1h x16 or 18 a day. The time is important here to evaluate diminishing returns.

36 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

I’ll figure out where to put this last scene. In my usual way, I’ve got a whole huge story arch in my head, complete with this story of him growing up and some other meta plots later as he’s making a living and experimenting with his powers. Down the like maybe he gets ahold of a medallion or two, maybe gets spiked. Maybe winds up in the CR and meets a traveling Horneater. Who knows? One thing at a time. It’s meant to be a fun exercise and since I don’t have to worry about the setting or Magic system, besides a few little things, I can just focus on story.

That sounds nice. The train scene works on its own, so it can be placed wherever you like it or even be as its own separate short story. So you're right, you can just write it first and then decide where it fits the best.

IlstrawberrySeed · February 8, 2023

On 2/5/2023 at 7:16 AM, Tglassy said:

I would imagine that a Nicroburst would let him sill the metalmind faster, but not necessarily give MORE power. So, let's say you have enough Pewter to burn for ten minutes, and spend all ten minutes burning it and putting the Strength into a Metalmind. Then you get another dose of Pewter that would burn for 10 minutes, only have someone give you a Nicroburst when you started filling it. The two metalminds would have the same amount of power in them, but the one that was filled with a Nicroburst would have been filed instantly, instead of over ten mintues.

It would be a quick way to fill his metalminds, and perhaps one of his allies is a Nicrosil Misting, and he goes to him when he needs to compound quickly. Compounding does take time, after all. But with Nicrosil, it would take just a few minutes.

I cannot tell which part your responding to. Responded in spoilers for length because of 2 separate arguments.

Spoiler

That is how D/N compounding works, the amount of power you get by compounding is constant per mole of metal (until you run out of attribute) - but I was talking about compression, not compounding. Compression is when you tap faster than you filled, you get diminishing returns. Burning durilium or being necrobursted while tapping should have you tap all of the ability from that/all metalminds without diminishing returns. Remember that compression/diminishing returns isn't loosing power - it's using some of the power to compress it, which makes it seem like you lost some. In the case of D/N, you should be using the investiture from D-burning or N-bursting to compress rather than the stored attribute.

Spoiler

When you D/N burn a metal, you get all it's power in one burst - but about the same amount of power as if you burned it at any other rate. (The D/N might add extra power or require a bit to get going, we just don't know.) However, if you spend 10 minutes filling a pewtermind with a low burn (10%), 5 minutes with a regular burn(50%), 2 minutes on flare(66.R6%) and 1 second with D/N (99%), then tapping it to get 150% strength will have diffrent time constraints. The first will last the shortest, at (based on fake numbers BS made up when asked about compression) about 3.5 minutes. The 5 minutes on regular will last 5 minutes. But if you only tap 50% strenght from the flare, 1 of three things happen:

The 16.R6% is wasted. What a shame.
The 16.R6% stays in there, and can be used as X% for 2 minutes, that can be compressed. This means you would actually loose time compared to the 5 minutes, but that is based on fake numbers on 2 accounts (burn vs flare rate and compression rates).
The attribute and rate of fill are converted into investiture that is stored, (fact) so sine you are using less of the investiture from the original compression, it can be used as more attribute.

I really don't see the first happening (nor do I see the option of tapping less being possible, though you can say he doesn't know how), and the middle's math is beased on made up numbers on my part (burn rate vs flair rate) and Brandon's, but it is likely to seemingly add some amount of attribute. The latter adds more than the second, but it gets the same effect. The faster you fill (or the more you reverse compound), the more exaggerated all 3 effects will be.

On 2/5/2023 at 7:16 AM, Tglassy said:

He saves all the strength he can muster. ... He never really stops, except when he's sleeping, but he wakes in the morning and instinctively stores his strength. ... For four years, he's worked hard on the farm, but not allowed his mucles to grow. All that time, his base strength has grown, but he always shunted it into the Pewtermind.

He would be a pewter filling savant by now, if those exist. (It might be analogous to being a tapping savant.) Also, not letting the mussel's grow could be dangerous, since the body would grow in relation to his physical/cognitive, not spiritual (I would think) meaning he could get fuerochemically sized mussels "naturally" (that would stagnate if he doesn't fill them). This could mean that he is incapacitated unless he fills or burns pewter. I would have this be a point in a later arc where he has done filling exercise for the purpose of growing his mussels cheaply (without expensive equipment).

Edited February 8, 2023 by IlstrawberrySeed

Tglassy · February 9, 2023

Hmm. Maybe I’m not following.

If he fills his pewter mind constantly, never letting himself get any bigger, you’re saying that if he were to stop he could wind up with muscles that are too big? Or are you saying that he could wind up having permanent half strength, like his muscles get stuck in fill mode?

My original thought was that when he finally does stop filling, his natural state is actually decently muscled. I guess it depends on how working out would work when storing Strength. If you’re storing strength while working out, would you get better returns, or worse?

Getting stronger while working out has to do with micro tears on your muscles as you work out, which heal stronger than they were before. You need to lift heavier and heavier weights to continue to get the increases because the lower weights no longer damage the muscle, allowing for that growth.

So it could be argued that working out while storing Strength could help the workouts become more potent, because you can always use those weaker weights to tear the muscles. So lift the weight until exhausted, then stop storing Strength, and the muscles should still feel sore, and may repair itself stronger.

But I suppose it could also stunt your gains, since you aren’t actually lifting anything. Heavier. Hmm. That’s hard to determine.

Also, can you become a Feruchemical savant?

alder24 · February 9, 2023

13 hours ago, Tglassy said:

My original thought was that when he finally does stop filling, his natural state is actually decently muscled. I guess it depends on how working out would work when storing Strength. If you’re storing strength while working out, would you get better returns, or worse?

I think it will improve. If you store 50% of your strength, and you have let's say 20 strength in total, so you are left with 10 strength. After a year of working out you gain 2 strength, but because you are storing 50% of your strength, your new total is 22 strength, and you're now storing 11 of it. Half of any strength you're gaining will be stored in metalminds, because your new maximum strength has increased. Does it make sense?

13 hours ago, Tglassy said:

So it could be argued that working out while storing Strength could help the workouts become more potent, because you can always use those weaker weights to tear the muscles. So lift the weight until exhausted, then stop storing Strength, and the muscles should still feel sore, and may repair itself stronger.

So if that's how muscles grow, storing strength will to some degree help develop them.

13 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Also, can you become a Feruchemical savant?

not really without compounding

Spoiler

Kurkistan

Is there such a thing as a Feruchemical savant?

Brandon Sanderson

I did not write Feruchemical savants into the original outline. Whether or not I will do them- it’s highly unlikely because it’s not there and Mistborn is getting trickier and trickier in that regard. But I didn’t write them in, so… that’s a “probably not”.

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

Spoiler

Questioner

There are Allomantic savants, are there Feruchemical savants?

Brandon Sanderson

Much harder to do. My feeling on Feruchemical savants was because it was your own power in the first place, you can't steep in it so much in the way. But, if you can get someone else's power or if you are fueling your Feruchemy another way, you would become one. So, the Lord Ruler is a good example.

Questioner

Was Miles a...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Miles would be the same sort of thing.

Questioner

Is that why he didn't die as quickly in the execution?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

So yeah. Normally no but if you can Compound you become... basically that is how I am explaining part of the Compounding abilities.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

IlstrawberrySeed · February 25, 2023

On 2/8/2023 at 4:18 PM, Tglassy said:

Hmm. Maybe I’m not following.

If he fills his pewter mind constantly, never letting himself get any bigger, you’re saying that if he were to stop he could wind up with muscles that are too big? Or are you saying that he could wind up having permanent half strength, like his muscles get stuck in fill mode?

My original thought was that when he finally does stop filling, his natural state is actually decently muscled. I guess it depends on how working out would work when storing Strength. If you’re storing strength while working out, would you get better returns, or worse?

Getting stronger while working out has to do with micro tears on your muscles as you work out, which heal stronger than they were before. You need to lift heavier and heavier weights to continue to get the increases because the lower weights no longer damage the muscle, allowing for that growth.

So it could be argued that working out while storing Strength could help the workouts become more potent, because you can always use those weaker weights to tear the muscles. So lift the weight until exhausted, then stop storing Strength, and the muscles should still feel sore, and may repair itself stronger.

But I suppose it could also stunt your gains, since you aren’t actually lifting anything. Heavier. Hmm. That’s hard to determine.

Also, can you become a Feruchemical savant?

Too big, Tapping sized, because if he fills until he has 4 strength (minimum), and he had 10 at the start, if he gains strenght, his body won't recognize it, it would go strait into the Pewtermind. So he will keep growing mussels as if he was 4 strenght, not 11, 20, 30, 40, etc. 5 years might not be enough.

On 2/9/2023 at 5:33 AM, alder24 said:

I think it will improve. If you store 50% of your strength, and you have let's say 20 strength in total, so you are left with 10 strength. After a year of working out you gain 2 strength, but because you are storing 50% of your strength, your new total is 22 strength, and you're now storing 11 of it. Half of any strength you're gaining will be stored in metalminds, because your new maximum strength has increased. Does it make sense?

So if that's how muscles grow, storing strength will to some degree help develop them.

not really without compounding

Reveal hidden contents

Kurkistan

Is there such a thing as a Feruchemical savant?

Brandon Sanderson

I did not write Feruchemical savants into the original outline. Whether or not I will do them- it’s highly unlikely because it’s not there and Mistborn is getting trickier and trickier in that regard. But I didn’t write them in, so… that’s a “probably not”.

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

There are Allomantic savants, are there Feruchemical savants?

Brandon Sanderson

Much harder to do. My feeling on Feruchemical savants was because it was your own power in the first place, you can't steep in it so much in the way. But, if you can get someone else's power or if you are fueling your Feruchemy another way, you would become one. So, the Lord Ruler is a good example.

Questioner

Was Miles a...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Miles would be the same sort of thing.

Questioner

Is that why he didn't die as quickly in the execution?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

So yeah. Normally no but if you can Compound you become... basically that is how I am explaining part of the Compounding abilities.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

I agree it would improve, and I agree that's how it would work if storing a static rate, but one can also store a static amount or store to a static amount, and the kid is storing to a static amount - or at least that is how I understood it.

Intresting. Didn't knwo about those, but I still think he could become a filling savant if such things exist - and I postulate they do. Fuerochemistry is basically 2 abilities, 1 to store and 1 to tap. All abilities have the ability to savant (I wonder if hightenings are really just Biochroma savants), and I believe it's a 2-ability power, unlike most powers. Now, it could be that since it doesn't really permeate your spiritweb as it flows out, it doesn't do anything, but I would expect it too.

Tglassy · February 27, 2023

You know, I was considering the Allomancers and Feruchemists in cannon, and there are multiple times when close family members wind up with Allomancy. Vin's father was the Lord Prelan, and a Mistborn, if I'm not mistaken. I could be wrong there, but I feel like he wouldn't have gotten as high as he did without being a Mistborn. Kelsior and Marsh both wound up being Allomancers, and Spook and his Uncle were both ska mistings, which likely means that Clubs' parent or grandparent was a Noble.

So having more than one Metalborn in the family is certainly doable. I know that the genetics have been diluted somewhat by Era 2, but it should still be viable.

So, perhaps, having a father who is a Copper Ferring and a grandfather on his mother's side who is a Soother wouldn't be too outside of plausibility. It might be a bit much to have a sibling who is a Misting or Ferring, but maybe not, especially if it's a useless or under used metal.

I also really like the idea of a Duralumin/Zinc Twinborn being a serial killer who discovered the secrets of Hemalurgy. That's just scary stuff. Kind of like if Lex Luthor and Syler from Heroes had a love child. Super intelligent power stealing sereal killer. Though, I don't know if I'll do the whole "my sibling is a bad guy" thing, since that's kinda close to Wax's story and I want this to be different.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Tglassy

alder24 · February 27, 2023

10 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Vin's father was the Lord Prelan, and a Mistborn, if I'm not mistaken.

I couldn't find anything about him being a Mistborn, he was from house Tekiel, a noble of a pure line, but nothing about having any powers.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Vin's Identity Acceptance

This is a very important chapter for Vin, as it finally ties up a conflict that had been tormenting her since book one. All through the first and second novels, she struggled to find a balance between her different identities. Was she a noblewoman, the wife of an emperor? Or was she a thief, trained on the streets? It might seem at first glance like this would be a simple balance to work out, but as I dealt with it in her personality through the books, it seemed a very weighty process to me.

She's come far enough that she can finally recognize why it is that she turned away from noble culture and activities. And she can also see why doing so was wrong.

Vin is half noblewoman. Her father, if you recall, was an obligator—a member of a very important noble line. (House Tekiel, if you're wondering, though upon joining the obligators he forfeited his surname.) And, while I don't think parties and ball-going are genetic attributes, she does have a heritage. Elend fell in love with her while she was attending those balls and being Valette. It's good that she finally realized that she wasn't being false; she was just showing another aspect of herself when she attended those parties.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Oct. 20, 2009)

10 hours ago, Tglassy said:

and Spook and his Uncle were both ska mistings, which likely means that Clubs' parent or grandparent was a Noble.

Coppermind: "Spook's grandfather had noble blood, it is likely this was his maternal grandfather as his mother's brother (Clubs) was also an Allomancer."

10 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Kelsior and Marsh both wound up being Allomancers

Thier mother was a skaa mistress to a high-ranking noble lord.

10 hours ago, Tglassy said:

So having more than one Metalborn in the family is certainly doable. I know that the genetics have been diluted somewhat by Era 2, but it should still be viable.

Unlikely but possible, in era 1 it did happen (Straff and his kids Allomancers), but era 2 I would say it's very unlikely among non-noble related people. It can happen but it's rare.

On 25.02.2023 at 6:13 PM, IlstrawberrySeed said:

Intresting. Didn't knwo about those, but I still think he could become a filling savant if such things exist - and I postulate they do. Fuerochemistry is basically 2 abilities, 1 to store and 1 to tap. All abilities have the ability to savant (I wonder if hightenings are really just Biochroma savants), and I believe it's a 2-ability power, unlike most powers. Now, it could be that since it doesn't really permeate your spiritweb as it flows out, it doesn't do anything, but I would expect it too.

How would storing make you a savant when you don't provide investiture to your soul necessary to expand it and change it? That's the problem with savantism and Feruchemy, explained in the WoB, it's end-neutral, you don't have more investiture than you can provide by storing it. Investiture doesn't come from outside, form Preservation nor Ruin, it comes from your body, not even soul. Feruchemy isn't "2-ability power" it's one power with multiple actions. The same way Allomancer can burn or flare a metal, Feruchemist can store and tap attributes. It's one power. One ability. Converting attributes into investiture and vice versa.

Heightenings aren't Biochroma savants, because savantism is permanent and non-reversible by normal means. Heightenings are the natural effects of investiture, every highly invested object/people would have similar effects.

Spoiler

Questioner

So Allomantic Savants. So I was curious-- That system-- When that happens, is it purely physiological, or is there something else happening in terms of--

Brandon Sanderson

Uhh, it's physiological in a cosmere sense, but that can involve your Cognitive and Spiritual aspects.

Questioner

I guess the question there is, are there other similar processes to savantism with other--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yeah you've seen it. So, Soulcasters.

Argent

Where their skin turns--

Brandon Sanderson

Where they're slowly being-- their spirit is slowly being merged and infused with Investiture that is having Physical ramifications. It's the same thing.

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

Dawnshard novela spoiler:

Spoiler

tskyeguye

From Rysn's observations in the epilogue, it seems like she has a lot of the same aspects of a Fifth Heightening/Returned at the least. Is this because her Dawnshard is particularly connected to Endowment or because the effects of a certain level of Investment result in similar effects?

Brandon Sanderson

The latter.

Skrimyt

Interesting. So are actively Surgebinding Radiants or metal-burning Allomancers just not Invested enough to gain those passive effects, or do they not experience perfect pitch/color/etc. because their Investiture is just not as tightly bound to their Spiritweb as Endowment's Breaths or a Dawnshard would be?

Brandon Sanderson

Be aware that the two groups you mention don't generally hold much Investiture themselves, at least not in large quantities over time. More in Surgebinding. Almost none in Allomancy.

But RAFO to specifics.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

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