Long Game 92: Process of Elimination

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

I'll weigh in on the discussion with my odd point and avoid the matrixes for now as fun as they are.

Aman if he's telling the truth, could be quite a valuable asset to us. Because if he removes other neutrals then it makes it more likely that we hit the elims, right? Because the more other factions that are in the game. The more likely we are to miss the elim team. And with Aman possibly removing one every two turns that is neutral would help with that.

Sorry neutrals but it's true. Problem is this is flipless.

[Amanuensis he/him]

12 minutes ago, Random Bystander said:

I thought his main point was that the role you claim to have could do way more harm than it is worth, so either way, lynching you makes the most sense.

Nah, these are Striker's posts since I revealed.

9 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

For Reasons™

@Amanuensis I can’t quote your role claim because screw me apparently, but yeah I don’t buy that at all.

Also I haven’t read pages 7/8 yet. Gotta go!

Doesn't believe my claim.

8 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

All I’m willing to say about my role is that I like rolls.

Also I bet Aman/Wiz team. Spec doc, give me the $20 now that I’m betting I’m right.

Pairs me on a team with Wizard (thinks we're E/E)

8 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

All I’m willing to say about my role is that I like rolls.

Also I bet Aman/Wiz team. Spec doc, give me the $20 now that I’m betting I’m right.

Then frustration about Referee discussion.

You might be thinking about Sart, who posted this:

2 hours ago, Sart said:

Look I'm just going to do it. Amanuensis. You've made a claim that's impossible to verify without getting immediately shot at. Even if we believe you, you've literally claimed that you are a Serial Killer! Admittedly, you are only intending to go after certain roles, but that still gives you a wide target list. Just by the nature of mafia, you are more likely to hit a Village soccer player than you are an Elim soccer player. You're not helping the thread, and your reveal has become a black hole of discussion. You've done this gambit before, and stayed alive way past your due date, and I'm not going to let you keep this up.

But as has been stated by the GM:

6 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Not the first time I've been asked this, so while Ash in particular wasn't the one to ask:

I will not conceal from players the existence of neutrals who can cause the Village or Elims to directly lose the game. In light of the strong negative reaction in MR56 to Calamity being a concealed SK and the 'exact wording' nature of the Village's wincon in that game, I will note that while I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of neutrals, I can categorically assert that everything the Village and Elims need to win is stated directly in their wincons. If there is a specific neutral/faction the Village or Elims have to kill or can otherwise lose to, I would have stated it upfront or hinted at it.

If you believe I'm Neutral, it's counter-intuitive to kill me over someone that will effect your win con. My role is only slightly harmless, especially considering I don't plan on killing more World Cuppers than I need to (which is two).

ED1T:

 Ninja'd

4 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

I'll weigh in on the discussion with my odd point and avoid the matrixes for now as fun as they are.

Aman if he's telling the truth, could be quite a valuable asset to us. Because if he removes other neutrals then it makes it more likely that we hit the elims, right? Because the more other factions that are in the game. The more likely we are to miss the elim team. And with Aman possibly removing one every two turns that is neutral would help with that.

Sorry neutrals but it's true. Problem is this is flipless.

To clarify, I don't believe the other World Cupper roles are neutral. I think they are sprinkled among villagers and eliminators.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Amanuensis

[Stick. she/her]

1 minute ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

I'll weigh in on the discussion with my odd point and avoid the matrixes for now as fun as they are.

Aman if he's telling the truth, could be quite a valuable asset to us. Because if he removes other neutrals then it makes it more likely that we hit the elims, right? Because the more other factions that are in the game. The more likely we are to miss the elim team. And with Aman possibly removing one every two turns that is neutral would help with that.

Sorry neutrals but it's true. Problem is this is flipless.

A Referee makes sense as a neutral role, others such as Goalkeeper/Striker/Midfielder don’t necessarily. This isn’t the fist time you’ve assumed World Cuppers = not elims or village. How come? Is it because there’s none on your team? 

[Mat he/him]

[This is where I would say what Aman and Stick said if they hadn’t beat me to it]

[Archer he/him]

2 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

A Referee makes sense as a neutral role, others such as Goalkeeper/Striker/Midfielder don’t necessarily. This isn’t the fist time you’ve assumed World Cuppers = not elims or village. How come? Is it because there’s none on your team? 

The simple math here is that 6+ neutrals would break a game through collective action. Siding with the elims for example gives them something like a 13v:12ne ratio. It'd be weird not to have an elim World Cupper, but if there isn't one, I can see e!Wiz getting to this assumption. Wiz TJ

14 minutes ago, Random Bystander said:

I thought his main point was that the role you claim to have could do way more harm than it is worth, so either way, lynching you makes the most sense.

The nature of this thread is that your opinion will be lost among the pages unless you add weight to it with a vote. The VC is a summary of people's top suspects that has more visibility. I encourage you to vote for Aman if you're leaning that way. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

The nature of this thread is that your opinion will be lost among the pages unless you add weight to it with a vote. The VC is a summary of people's top suspects that has more visibility. I encourage you to vote for Aman if you're leaning that way. 

Hear, hear!

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

Just now, _Stick_ said:

A Referee makes sense as a neutral role, others such as Goalkeeper/Striker/Midfielder don’t necessarily. This isn’t the fist time you’ve assumed World Cuppers = not elims or village. How come? Is it because there’s none on your team? 

6 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

To clarify, I don't believe the other World Cupper roles are neutral. I think they are sprinkled among villagers and eliminators.

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

[This is where I would say what Aman and Stick said if they hadn’t beat me to it]

I just automatically read neutral as just neutral and I keep forgetting that they could be alligned either way. Most likely there would have to be some village alligned ones, with the addition of world cupper.

Just now, Archer said:

The simple math here is that 6+ neutrals would break a game through collective action. Siding with the elims for example gives them something like a 13v:12ne ratio. It'd be weird not to have an elim World Cupper, but if there isn't one, I can see e!Wiz getting to this assumption. Wiz TJ

24 minutes ago, Random Bystander said:

Yeah, but my brain just goes straight to pure neutrals. I agree that there would have to be some village alligned and probably at least one or two elim alligned.

[Ashbringer he/him]

31 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

I just automatically read neutral as just neutral and I keep forgetting that they could be alligned either way. Most likely there would have to be some village alligned ones, with the addition of world cupper.

Yeah, but my brain just goes straight to pure neutrals. I agree that there would have to be some village alligned and probably at least one or two elim alligned.

What would their hypothetical win-cons be though? Score a penalty kick? Outnumber other factions? Pull off a WGG to get someone Removed from the game?

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

What would their hypothetical win-cons be though? Score a penalty kick? Outnumber other factions? Pull off a WGG to get someone Removed from the game?

Perhaps just alligned with the village or the elims? And they just have a football themed ability?

[StrikerEZ he/him]

Striker. you guys make great points

[Amanuensis he/him]

(4) StrikerEZ: Araris Valerian, Adavantos, The Wandering Wizard, StrikerEZ, 
(3) Archer: Devotary of Spontaneity, Walin, Steeldancer, 
(2) Walin: Channelknight Fadran, Matrim's Dice, 
(2) Channelknight Fadran: The Known Novel, TJ,
(2) The Wandering Wizard: Tani, Archer,
(1) Stick: Orlok Tsubodai,
(1) Danex: Ashbringer,
(1) Bookwyrm: xinoehp512,
(1) xinoehp512: Bookwyrm, 
(1) Tani: Stick, 
(1) Adavantos: Sart, 

9 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Striker. you guys make great points

Don't want a three-way tie?

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

What if no one votes

And then if someone tiebreaks with a vote we vote them out

Let RNGesus decide our fate

Edited January 28, 2023 by Shining Silhouette

[Mat he/him]

Not sure how I feel about that Wiz explanation but sure I guess

34 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

What would their hypothetical win-cons be though? Score a penalty kick? Outnumber other factions? Pull off a WGG to get someone Removed from the game?

I would unironically love a flavor role where they had to score a penalty kick to win :P.

22 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Striker. you guys make great points

Spoiler

(I jest, I jest. Kinda.)

Edit:

Just now, Shining Silhouette said:

What if no one votes

And then if someone tiebreaks with a vote we vote them out

Let RNGesus decided our fate

What's the point of that? We don't get flips. There's no benefit because it takes away our ability to judge behavior based on switching because suddenly all switches are of equal suspicion.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Matrim's Dice

[Amanuensis he/him]

All my homies hate Dinkleberg

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Spoiler

 

Mat there was a glitch in the matrix or something. You posted at the same time I did and somehow your image wound up in my post and I had to edit it out 

Edit:

2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

What's the point of that? We don't get flips. There's no benefit because it takes away our ability to judge behavior based on switching because suddenly all switches are of equal suspicion.

What's the point of anything anyway? :eyes:

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Shining Silhouette

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, Shining Silhouette said:

Mat there was a glitch in the matrix or something. You posted at the same time I did and somehow your image wound up in my post and I had to edit it out 

Edit:

What's the point of anything anyway? :eyes:

I SAW THAT YEAH

I just refreshed and it fixed so I guess you were fast :P.

I could answer that seriously but I get the feeling you're not really looking for a serious answer  

Edited January 28, 2023 by Matrim's Dice
am I the only one who obsesses every time I use all caps that it looks angry, it's not intended to look the slightest bit angry xD

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

I could answer that seriously but I get the feeling you're not really looking for a serious answer  

Genuine question though, how does this game even work? What are we even supposed to do?

Has the village ever won one of these games?

[StrikerEZ he/him]

21 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Don't want a three-way tie?

Other impulses move me this game, lawman.

[Amanuensis he/him]

4 minutes ago, Shining Silhouette said:

Genuine question though, how does this game even work? What are we even supposed to do?

Has the village ever won one of these games?

We share information that individuals are willing (helps a lot if players, when they're about to be executed, announce their role to give us some clue of what to do next). We speculate, ask each other questions, explore suspicions. Look for people not looking for people or protecting the people other people keep looking at.

ED1T:

1 minute ago, StrikerEZ said:

Other impulses move me this game, lawman.

Jester claim is a fun one. I wonder who you'll posthumously kill 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Amanuensis

[Ashbringer he/him]

3 minutes ago, Shining Silhouette said:

Genuine question though, how does this game even work? What are we even supposed to do?

Has the village ever won one of these games?

Spoiler

 

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

Just now, Amanuensis said:

We share information that individuals are willing (helps a lot if players, when they're about to be executed, announce their role to give us some clue of what to do next). We speculate, ask each other questions, explore suspicions. Look for people not looking for people or protecting the people other people keep looking at.

So the conspicuously inconspicuous and the inconspicuously conspicuous! That chart someone made a while back of the connections board seemed useful.

Hey if anyone wants to convert me to your faction just hit me up I'll be all cool and stuff I pinky promise

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Shining Silhouette said:

Genuine question though, how does this game even work? What are we even supposed to do?

Has the village ever won one of these games?

I mean, in theory it’s the same as any other game: We vote out our suspicions and look for connections that may link teammates. The obvious difference being those connections are a lot harder to trust when we don’t know for certain if they’re real.

I’ve played two: one on the Shard, one offsite. The one on the shard was won by a neutral SK (so yes, even though Aman’s fine to live now don’t think that’s always a guarantee) but the village was winning before that happened (???)

The offsite one was virtually a village sweep. Four elims and the village won in five turns. So it’s definitely possible. It kinda begs the question of how strong we think the elim team is, which is normally a D1 topic of discussion and it’s kinda weird we never got there.

Ninjad x4 but I’m on mobile and they’re on the next page so I’ll just post and hope I’m not repeating words  

[StrikerEZ he/him]

7 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Jester claim is a fun one. I wonder who you'll posthumously kill 

Hey. Don’t put words in my mouth!

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, StrikerEZ said:

Hey. Don’t put words in my mouth!

A not-Jester claim then? 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

6 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

A not-Jester claim then? 

Well, it’s not a not-Jester claim either. It’s an “I didn’t claim anything” claim.