Long Game 92: Process of Elimination

[Mat he/him]

Just now, The Wandering Wizard said:

It was his second game as LG88 was his first. It was his first and only evil game.

Oh yeah, the whole reason I chose to convert him was his first game and our Warder PM :P. I remember now…

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

Just now, The Wandering Wizard said:

It was his second game as LG88 was his first. It was his first and only evil game.

Woah Wiz you're really caught up on the player profiling  

I've never started out evil and I've played like 10 games (I don't actually know how many but like >>)

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy I just wanna be evil

48 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

So you're village-reading Wiz. What about Striker and Walin?

Striker strikes me as a trite un-righteous—may be wallowing in walloping (or striking, if you will). -1.5 Strikes against Striker

Walin is not wallowing in walloping, fortunately (as far as I can tell). He seems to be unwittingly (but wittily) walking the path of wisdom. Or amusement. Unfortunately, it cannot be said if he is stonewalling for I do not have enough information, and besides, what is the point of a stone walin when we can have wacky walin +0.5 walls built for Walin

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I’m usually somewhat anticlaimactic, but that has been mellowed by both lots of chatting with Kas and the fact this is a blackout, where the elim info advantage is greater than usual. As for my specific post, I’ll leave y’all to figure out if it was serious, since that seems to fit the vibe of the game.

In response to TJ, I have voted, and my vote is on one of the leading candidates: Striker.

Here’s the thing with Stick’s original posts: I can’t ever think of an elim team that had “encourage bandwagons” as part of their strategy. So while it was disconcerting to see her suggestions, I mostly just disagree with them. I would probably still vote Stick over someone that I have a gut village read on in the case of a close vote. I’m honestly not opposed to voting Aman either, since, according to him, we aren’t going to be solving this together as villagers. And there’s no way he’s actually being honest with us.

Other than that, I’ve kinda just been enjoying the banter of the game. Maybe I should be ashamed of just chilling like that, but I’m better at the endgame anyways, so that’s how it is.

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

10 minutes ago, Shining Silhouette said:

Woah Wiz you're really caught up on the player profiling  

 

Nah, I just was looking for you first game and trying to see if you actually only had one evil game

9 minutes ago, Shining Silhouette said:

I've never started out evil and I've played like 10 games (I don't actually know how many but like >>)

 

If you include this game, I think it's 11.

Edited January 28, 2023 by The Wandering Wizard

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

8 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

If you include this game, I think it's 11.

*sigh*

[Amanuensis he/him]

14 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I’m honestly not opposed to voting Aman either, since, according to him, we aren’t going to be solving this together as villagers.

Wait what. When have I ever said something insane like that. I've been encouraging village discussion all day 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

Wait what. When have I ever said something insane like that. I've been encouraging village discussion all day 

But you aren't village. You crossed the line. SE is way more important than football, yet you abandon us to obsess over some tournament somewhere.

[The Unknown Order he/him]

6 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

I'm definitely inclined to believe the claim, but what I'm unsure of is what it means in terms of alignment. @Araris Valerian are you usually pro-claiming D1? 

-------------------------

I have reread the thread. Thank you for your applause. Being on desktop helps. A couple of things:

1. I'm actually liking the contributions from TKN, like this post. Him actually casting a vote D1 is notable, though -  he has previously asserted that he only votes when he's certain of the player's evilness. @The Known Novel why the change in style? It's not bad by any means, but I'd like to understand your thought process anyhow. 

2. Xino and Fadran are probably not teamed 

3. 

I'm inclined to village-read this because an elim probably wouldn't just throw this out here without a solid plan.

4. I am NOT liking the contributions from Shining. Agree with whoever said that they seem unusually detached/uninterested in game solving. Would maybe join that wagon. 

5. 

I...think I'm reading Wiz's dispersed role claim as village? Why stagger it out in that manner if elim? E!Wiz would've probably readied a well-crafted post spilling the details all at once? Kind of like Aman's post

6. 

 Playing devil's advocate for this but the game is flipless. It's not too unreasonable to expect us to never realise until it's too late.

7.

*Is thinking about what the opposite of creating a 1-1 PM would be*

A giant PM with everyone but the two intended recipients 

8. 

Like, dice rolls? 

9. 

Oooo this is interesting. Are the GMs the Trolls? Is it a randomised mechanic?

10.

Gut village on this. Unless the elims believe Aman to be a lying villager, exeing a neutral does not help the elim wincon.

11.

Hm not really  I assume Fae is mostly operating out of gut reads, so...

--------------------------

Based on that:

Probably village: Mat, Fadran, Fae, Randby, Wiz
Could be village: Sart, TKN, Archer, Walin, Bookwyrm
Idk: Devo, Orlok, Bip, TJ, xino, Araris
Neutral-claimed: Aman
Could be elim - : Ash, JNV, Striker, Steel
Could be elim + : Shining, Tani, Dannex

That should be everyone.

Edit:

I completely missed that claim from Steel. ._. Flashbacks to MR56 Archer.

Edit 2:

@Archer said something about there being an alignment scanner mechanism on Page 1 - I think the village almost certainly as a role akin to that because otherwise there’s nothing stopping the elims from claiming to have knowledge of alignments/roles. For instance, an elim could easily claim to have a role that receives alignments/roles of each player that dies and they could use that to assert strong influence on the game. Without a village seeker-like role it’s hard to see balance there. 

I am also willing to vote as a joke, which is what my Fadran vote was, but it stayed on for the reasons everyone else has mentioned and general inactivity. It also is boosted by how easily my slips were caught in the AG, and so I'm more willing than normal to go after them.

2 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

I can die from any execution or NK. I just am Untrollable, which means that my Yellow/Red Card action can't be interrupted via that mechanic.

But yeah, save this talk for like D5 or something, though I expect to have proven my role by then.

ED1T:

Also, I vow to never penalize the first Captain, Goalkeeper, Midfielder, or Striker to role claim in thread and confirm my legitimacy, if anyone is interested in doing so

Well, with this handy dandy vow, I guess I'll claim.

I am not in fact a vanilla. Well, not really. I'm a Midfielder, which can only receive penalty kicks, apparently. Don't know what those do, maybe a kill or something?

2 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

I actually think it's a bit too easy (only two? why not three??), just enough potential ways to kill myself to keep me on my toes / add risk-reward. Like, I've got 2 Striker suspicions, 2 Goalkeeper suspicions, and a Captain suspicion off the claim alone, not to mention a slew of likely-not World Cuppers. And that's just the tool I decided to use because reaction tests are in my wheelhouse anyway. I didn't share everything about my role, just the parts that have to do with the other players / the overall distro, so if it doesn't seem to make sense, I guess the missing bits could make it easier to swallow

Am I one of them? 

[Amanuensis he/him]

27 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

But you aren't village. You crossed the line. SE is way more important than football, yet you abandon us to obsess over some tournament somewhere.

I’m default village aligned tho, simply on merit of being me  and while true that there are likely more Village World Cuppers than Elim, I have no intention to shoot the ones that I village read (which I already have for two). My personal goal is to find the Elim World Cupper(s) and kill them myself, unless they figure out how to reach me and negotiate a deal, but even then, I would never vote alongside the elims, just maybe kill a Village World Cupper after they sacrifice theirs to me. Alternatively, they just might kill me, which doesn’t help their win con and buys time for the Village.

Point is, the World Cuppers are in the game, and I’m using it as a vehicle to drive my own analysis + keep others informed. It’s not a separate problem ultimately

ED1T:

I do have one more piece of info to share.

The way my role interacts with Trolls isn’t exactly an immunity. Attempting to Troll the Referee will not stop me from issuing a Yellow Card to my target, but it will also give the Troll a Yellow Card. Thing is, my Yellow Cards do nothing on non-Football roles and will return as a failure. This leads me to think some players may have more than one role (I.E. Troll and Goalkeeper). 

I was hoping to maybe catch a World Cupper that way but at the very least I think unwise to assume players only have a single role, based on my info. I could especially see vanilla!Midfielders being paired with non-Football power roles too.

Obviously no one should reveal if they have two roles, but hopefully if I’m right and some Troll/??? Hybrid people exist, they’ll have another reason to believe my claim, and maybe test it for themselves

I actually don’t know what happens when a not-Football role gets one of my Yellow Cards. I know I get told it has no effect, but the rest is PAFO’d. If I don’t have a viable target tonight, I might just use it on a Villager I trust to see if they receive something about it in their PM. Of course, if any Trolls are willing to come forward and test it themselves, I’d appreciate it greatly.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Amanuensis

[StrikerEZ he/him]

45 minutes ago, Shining Silhouette said:

I've never started out evil and I've played like 10 games (I don't actually know how many but like >>)

Hey you’re not doing too bad. I went about 13 games or so before getting evil!

Also not sure what to think of TKN’s claim. If this game really does have a bunch of football/soccer stuff in it that feels weird to me. But whatever.

[Stick. she/her]

22 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

but it stayed on for the reasons everyone else has mentioned and general inactivity

I wouldn't exactly say Fadran has been inactive?

22 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

I'm a Midfielder, which can only receive penalty kicks, apparently. Don't know what those do, maybe a kill or something?

Oh! Cool. Aman should be able to give you a penalty kick. He also probably knows what it does.

Edit:

@The Known Novel I do want to know what you were hoping to achieve by announcing the game as not role-madness and claiming roleless earlier.

Edited January 28, 2023 by _Stick_

[Amanuensis he/him]

26 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

I am also willing to vote as a joke, which is what my Fadran vote was, but it stayed on for the reasons everyone else has mentioned and general inactivity. It also is boosted by how easily my slips were caught in the AG, and so I'm more willing than normal to go after them.

Well, with this handy dandy vow, I guess I'll claim.

I am not in fact a vanilla. Well, not really. I'm a Midfielder, which can only receive penalty kicks, apparently. Don't know what those do, maybe a kill or something?

Am I one of them? 

Nope  I had no idea how to pick out Midfielder’s specifically, but I was Village reading you already, which helps

ED1T:

Tbh though I know nothing of penalty kicks. I got names of roles, but no real information about them. I suspect that’s an interaction between Striker’s (Not Stricker) and Goalkeeper’s?

Interesting nonetheless 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Amanuensis

[The Unknown Order he/him]

2 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

I wouldn't exactly say Fadran has been inactive?

Oh! Cool. Aman should be able to give you a penalty kick. He also probably knows what it does.

I meant my own inactivity.

[Steeldancer he/him]

7 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Thoughts:

1) Too many people are giving far too much credence to Aman’s claim. Parts of it seem wholly unlikely (the number of football related roles in an SE subforum related game, Kas putting a neutral SK-esque role in a blackout). Given at least some is almost certainly fabrication, I’m putting the whole thing down as Aman phishing, and making alignment judgements on that action. I do not consider voting (or otherwise) because of any perceived threat from the role well thought through.

2) Whilst acknowledging that my ability to keep on top of the thread at this stage is limited, I have seen a few players (my recollection has @Channelknight Fadran and @Matrim's Dice) expressing a village belief in Stick for most of the turn so far, which I haven’t seen a strong justification for, and which seems incongruous with D1. I’d be grateful to hear their reasoning for this in as much detail as they can provide.

3)

Notwithstanding all I said above about Aman’s claim being one we should pretty much disregard, I’m going to bite on this from Steeldancer.

For one thing, however nonchalant the phrasing, this is obviously very deliberately dropped in, and it would be a shame not to give him the conversation clearly desired.

@Steeldancer, care to elaborate?

Basically I can find out later if Aman was lying or not about his role if he's dead. I won't elaborate more for now. My role should be useful to counter the stupidity of not even getting a role flip. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

Football Role Family: Goalkeeper, Striker, Midfielder, Captain, 1 Referee

Forum Role Family: (ED1T: Thank you for reminding me Stick) Troll, RPer, Analyst? / Theory ((ED2T: Thank you Wizard for claiming)) PM Spider

Assuming @Steeldancer is claiming to belong to the second to verify Bystander’s RPer claim.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Amanuensis

[Stick. she/her]

41 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Attempting to Troll the Referee will not stop me from issuing a Yellow Card to my target, but it will also give the Troll a Yellow Card.

Ah so that's the fun interaction you mentioned earlier.

16 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

I meant my own inactivity.

Fair

8 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Basically I can find out later if Aman was lying or not about his role if he's dead. I won't elaborate more for now. My role should be useful to counter the stupidity of not even getting a role flip. 

I- Perhaps further elaboration is not needed  So you can uncover roles but maybe not alignments is what I'm getting off this.

Edit:

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

Football Role Family: Goalkeeper, Striker, Midfielder, Captain, 1 Referee

Forum Role Family: RPer, Analyst? / Theory Crafter?, ???, ???

Troll 

Edited January 28, 2023 by _Stick_

[Kasimir he/him]

9 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

My role should be useful to counter the stupidity of not even getting a role flip. 

Spoiler

 

[Amanuensis he/him]

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

[Stick. she/her]

There's probably also like...a Vote Analyst (maybe with vote manip), a PM Spider (something like what Wiz claims), and maybe a Strategist (insert some cool ability). A Lurker could exist, which Araris' claim would line up with.

[Amanuensis he/him]

For a while, I was thinking Strikers could be Soothers, literally striking out votes. Could fit on an elim  team.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Amanuensis

[Stick. she/her]

And Goalkeeper makes most sense as a protect action

[The Unknown Order he/him]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

For a while, I was thinking Strikers could be Soothers, literally striking out votes. Could fit on an elim team.

Especially if the penalty kick is a kill, I doubt there would be two kills especially within the soccer roles.

[Stick. she/her]

Huh

Edited January 28, 2023 by _Stick_
O_O

[Amanuensis he/him]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:35 PM, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Also! Troll-role was elim in LG 53. I expect similar to this:

Temptation: Absolutely terrifying with Code. They get into the code and corrupt it. If they target you, your action will do exactly what you didn’t want. You will accidently ban a player instead of protect them. Or you will accidentally reveal your IP address instead of PM them. Or something. And then they will know what and who you are. 

So we can't count on roles to do what they're supposed to.

Devotary brought this up earlier. If Goalkeepers are Lurchers, that means Trolls would make it a kill. I think having that interaction happen in reverse with Striker is weird, so maybe when a Striker strikes out the vote of a Midfielder, they get a penalty kick? The Troll-Striker interaction would maybe add a vote, if correct.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Amanuensis

[Stick. she/her]

4 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Devotary brought this up earlier. If Goalkeepers are Lurchers, that means Trolls would make it a kill. I think having that interaction happen in reverse with Striker is weird, so maybe when a Striker strikes out the vote of a Midfielder, they get a penalty kick?

So you don't give PKs? Also reverse soothe could just be an extra vote added.

Also not sure if the Shard is being weird again but your edit disappeared...

Edited January 28, 2023 by _Stick_
removed repeated word