Amanuensis he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said: That’s both useful and annoying. Because we added people so we have no idea if the two we took out are elims or villagers. Or if they were villagers but two elims added themselves this time. It's very unlikely an elim added themselves other than Biplet (which no one but me suspects apparently). Possible Wizard/Biplet/Fae world tho, assuming the SE Buddy thing was a lie. (Infitesimally low chance) ED1T: The only other possibility would be Orlok/Araris on a team, since Araris claimed Bookwyrm wasn't trolled N2 when scanning Orlok Edited February 7, 2023 by Amanuensis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Amanuensis said: It's very unlikely an elim added themselves other than Biplet (which no one but me suspects apparently). Possible Wizard/Biplet/Fae world tho, assuming the SE Buddy thing was a lie. (Infitesimally low chance) ED1T: The only other possibility would be Orlok/Araris on a team, since Araris claimed Bookwyrm was trolled N2 when scanning Orlok So who would be our pool of two elims now, if we assume no elims were added in? Edit: @Steeldancer also, I wasn’t trying to disparage your use of the pinch hitter role. I’m just tired and things are coming out harsher than I mean them to. Edited February 7, 2023 by StrikerEZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wandering Wizard he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) Ashbringer (3): Ashbringer, Biplet, Matrim's Dice, The Wandering Wizard, Orlok Tsubodai Biplet (3): Amanuensis, DrakeMarshall, Shining Silhouette 3 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said: So who would be our pool of two elims now, if we assume no elims were added in? Ash and Shining. Biplet could be in there as well and we very well may shoot the possible villager in Ash and Shining This only deepens my Shining tunnel. EDIT: 9 minutes ago, Amanuensis said: The only other possibility would be Orlok/Araris on a team, since Araris claimed Bookwyrm was trolled N2 when scanning Orlok Wasn't that he wasn't trolled that night? Edited February 7, 2023 by The Wandering Wizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Silhouette he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) Quote Steeldancer (4): Archer, Ashbringer, DrakeMarshall, The Known Novel Walin(4): Matrim's Dice, Shining Silhouette, Steeldancer, TJ Quote Ashbringer (3): Ashbringer, Biplet, Matrim's Dice, The Wandering Wizard, Orlok Tsubodai Biplet (3): Amanuensis, DrakeMarshall, Shining Silhouette Underlined means in both pools Using Ash's post to fill in for alignments: Spoiler On 2/5/2023 at 2:57 PM, Ashbringer said: Oh. Well, let me do surgery to fix the eldritch spoiler boxes and I'll try to get that in ALIGNMENTS: Hide contents Aman - Village - From Striker Lynchbait Scan Striker - Village - From Bookwyrm N1 Scan Wizard - Village - From Fae 'SE Buddy' role Orlok - Village - From Bookwyrm N2 Scan, backed up by Araris antitroll. Mat - Village - From UPS Scan Araris - Village - From Bookwyrm N3 Scan Tani - Elim - Claimed Shining - Elim - Claimed (jokingly?) 2 Elims in pool of Mat/Drake/Ash/Shining/TJ/Archer/Steel/TKN ROLES: Hide contents Ashbringer - Thread Master (Immune to Execution), ??? Veteran (Removes one vote from self) Wizard - PM Spider (Creates a 1-on-1 PM on Odd Nights and learns a fact about a target on Even Nights (incorrect fact if Trolled) ) Steeldancer - Pinch Hitter (Copy the Role of a Removed/DDoSed player (does something interesting if Trolled) ) Fadran - Troll (may Troll players, gives a random player Troll Immunity next cycle if Trolled), Confirmed Villager (Always scans as Village) (Seems concerned about someone who's trying to incite a civil war, thus providing the necessary blood sacrifice to complete the nationwide transmutation circle in order to create a sufficiently powerful philosopher's stone and attain God) Striker - Lynchbait (Will place an Extra Vote on a random player who both had a vote on the Lynchbait at the 24 hour mark of the previous Day turn and is of the same alignment), Stab Voter (If your first vote is placed in the first 24 hours of a Day turn and does not change, it counts as double) xino - Multiquoter (Learn target's target (learn who targeted the target if Trolled) ) JNV - UPS Driver / PM Spider (Creates a 1-on-1 PM on Odd Nights and learns a fact about a target on Even Nights (incorrect fact if Trolled) ) Matrim's Dice - Tunnel Constructor (Force execution to either kill you or a target player) Biplet - Meme Maker (Can see if a target gets Trolled (false info if Trolled) ) Araris - Meme Maker (Can see if a target gets Trolled (false info if Trolled) ), Porch-Sitter (Added vote to self, more powerful other effect) Devotary - RPer (May copy one of target player's roles to use the next turn (temporarily grants the RPer role to the Troll (or the target?) if Trolled) ) Amanuensis - Goalkeeper (Protect target other player (turned to a Kill if Trolled) ), Troll (may Troll players, gives a random player Troll Immunity next cycle if Trolled... I think) TKN - Goalkeeper (Protect target other player (turned to a Kill if Trolled) ) The Bookwyrm - Analyst (Alignment Scan someone you voted for or who voted on you last turn (incorrect alignment if Trolled) Tani - RPer (May copy one of target player's roles to use the next turn (temporarily grants the RPer role to the Troll (or the target?) if Trolled) ) Archer - PM Spider (Creates a 1-on-1 PM on Odd Nights and learns a fact about a target on Even Nights (incorrect fact if Trolled) ) Walin - Troll (may Troll players, gives a random player Troll Immunity next cycle if Trolled... I think) TJ - Wallposter (Roleblock target player (Makes target immune to non-Troll Disruption if Trolled) ) Dannnnnex - Tie Guy (Learn alignments of players involved in a tie (need specifics, ??? If Trolled) _Stick_/Drake - Terminal Seeker (NK a target (protects the target if Trolled) ) Orlok - Pinch Hitter (Copy the Role of a Removed/DDoSed player (does something interesting if Trolled) ) RandBy - RPer (May copy one of target player's roles to use the next turn (temporarily grants the RPer role to the Troll (or the target?) if Trolled) ), Tunnel Constructor (Force execution to either kill you or a target player) Sart - ??? Shining - Discussion Leader (Move a vote) Fae - PM Spider (Creates a 1-on-1 PM on Odd Nights and learns a fact about a target on Even Nights (incorrect fact if Trolled) ), SE Buddy (Automatically know one Villager is Village at game start) We're missing an Elim Roleblocker. Is that better? We get Quote Steeldancer (4): Archer, Ashbringer, DrakeMarshall, The Known Novel Walin(4): Matrim's Dice, Shining Silhouette, Steeldancer, TJ Quote Ashbringer (3): Ashbringer, Biplet, Matrim's Dice, The Wandering Wizard, Orlok Tsubodai Biplet (3): Amanuensis, DrakeMarshall, Shining Silhouette HOT TAKE WARNING ASSUMPTIONS MADE (highlighted in orange) So from the second vote, using alignment scans, we get that there are two elims in <Biplet, Drake, Shining, Ash> which is pretty useful. Since I know I'm village (I know I am but technically an assumption for y'all), 2 of <Drake, Ash, Biplet> are evil. BIG ASSUMPTION but I think Ash's role is really OP and wouldn't be given to an elim EDIT: ASH CAN BE REPLACED WITH DRAKE AND SAME THING WORKS Conclusions (I'm just going to spoiler this so people don't get confused by my assumptions) Spoiler If V!Ash E!Drake, E!Biplet V!TJ, V!Steel, V!TKN, V!Archer Continuing with V!Ash assumption Now if we look at the player list and fill in the clears, we have: Village: Ash, Wiz, Steel, TJ, TKN, Archer, Striker, Orlok, Mat, Araris, Aman, Shining Elim: Biplet, Tani, Drake Random Other People: Fadran, Xino, JNV, Devo, Bookwyrm, Walin, Dannex, Ranby, Sart, Fae Random Peeps with Reads: Fadran, Bookwyrm, Fae, Devo, Dannex REMAINING POOL: JNV, Ranby, Sart TLDR; Assumed V!Ash, got that <Ash, Wiz, Steel, TJ, TKN, Archer, Striker, Orlok, Mat, Araris, Aman, Shining> were all village Remaining pool for me is JNV, Ranby, Sart EDIT: ASH CAN BE REPLACED WITH DRAKE AND SAME THING WORKS Edit: 1 hour ago, The Wandering Wizard said: Ash and Shining. Biplet could be in there as well and we very well may shoot the possible villager in Ash and Shining This only deepens my Shining tunnel. Aw man why are we in such different places >> Edited February 7, 2023 by Shining Silhouette post just posted, editing to combine posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Bystander she/her Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 10 hours ago, Channelknight Fadran said: Until the next night... Troll for hire! Now for 16% off! I will hire you. Troll me. I need someone to troll me to make sure I get an accurate read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Steeldancer said: I... did not expect my pinch hitting to be relevant. WELL THEN LET ME BESTOW UPON YOU THE RESULTS There are.... *drumrolllll* 2 elims! Attempt at figuring this out: Two elims in [Archer, Ash, Drake, TUN, Mat, Shining, Steel, TJ] Two elims in [Ash, Bip, Mat, Wiz, Orlok, Aman, Drake, Shining] If Tie Guy counts all the names, the previous pool is correct. If Tie Guy only counts the names of active votes, we can remove Ash and Wiz, I think? Because Ash had a vote removed and Wiz's vote was the one Shining moved. (EDIT: Realized this doesn't remove Ash, since it wasn't necessarily his vote that was moved.) @Steeldancer, if you get back (or I guess anyone can ask, and maybe this is already known idk) you should ask the specifics of what players count in this case. For now I'll use the wider pool. Overlaps: Ash, Drake, Mat, Shining Non-Overlaps: From TG1: [Archer, TUN, Steel, TJ]. From TG2: [Bip, Wiz, Orlok, Aman] Possible configurations: Two Overlaps Two TG1 and two TG2 One Overlap and one each of TG1/TG2 Two Overlaps points to Ash/Shining as the easiest answer since I have my own GM PM and Drake(s predecessor) killed Tani, though I wonder if there's any way that Stick could have been trying to protect Tani and something went wrong. Dunno the logistics of that. Two TG1 and two TG2 seems unlikely since it'd be four elims outed but there's something to be said about that since the IKYK exists, like, 'they would never do that' but they did, etc. That being said it still feels unlikely, but if it is the case I think we can rule out TUN from TG1 and... we miscleared someone in TG2. Okay, on second thought, I don't think there's any chance of this world because if we did misclear anyone, they wouldn't want any chance of being caught. Overlap + TG1/TG2 would probably be one of Ash/Shining, Not-TUN, and Bip. We'll know if it's Steel sooner or later. I don't think we can actually shrink the pools any smaller than that though. Conclusions are that there's basically always at least one elim in [Ash, Shining, Drake], unless the elims let one of their 'confirmed' get caught in Tie Guy. Ninja'd five times, probably by people being faster at making a post like this than me. I wonder if we came to the same conclusions Edited February 7, 2023 by Matrim's Dice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanuensis he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said: So who would be our pool of two elims now, if we assume no elims were added in? Edit: @Steeldancer also, I wasn’t trying to disparage your use of the pinch hitter role. I’m just tired and things are coming out harsher than I mean them to. Okay so... First tie: Quote Steeldancer (4): Archer, Ashbringer, DrakeMarshall, The Known Novel Walin(4): Matrim's Dice, Shining Silhouette, Steeldancer, TJ 2 Elims In: Archer Ashbringer DrakeMarshall Matrim's Dice Shining Silhouette Steeldancer TJ TNK Second tie: Quote Ashbringer (3): Ashbringer, Biplet, Matrim's Dice, The Wandering Wizard, Orlok Tsubodai Biplet (3): Amanuensis, DrakeMarshall, Shining Silhouette 2 Elims in: Ashbringer DrakeMarshall Matrim's Dice Shining Silhouette + Biplet + The Wandering Wizard + Orlok Tsubodai + Amanuensis @Steeldancer do you know if Wizard's vote still counted, even tho Silho moved it? (You would be told 2 elims and 5 villagers instead of 2 elims 6 villagers, I think?) RandBy's scan (if maybe @Araris Valerian and @Biplet are willing to confirm it and each other by both Troll Checking him) should help give context too, since if scans flips red we know he was one of the original 2 and only need to look for 1 more in the original grouping + this would basically confirm e!Biplet or e!Orlok/Araris Ashbringer DrakeMarshall Matrim's Dice Shining Silhouette Biplet If Biplet is a new Elim in the group, that means we still have 1 elim between Ash, Drake, Mat, and Shining and can concentrate there. Potentially 2, which gives us 50/50 odds of killing one. I will say, I'm beginning to entertain my paranoia of e!Coinshot!Stick/Drake again. I actually don't believe giving the elims a second kill role is too insane this game, considering the fact players can still talk afterward and there's lots of ways to interfere with it (troll, roleblock, protect) + not to mention Goalkeeper Troll Kills to give us NK power too Edited February 7, 2023 by Amanuensis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channelknight Fadran Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 51 minutes ago, Random Bystander said: I will hire you. Troll me. I need someone to troll me to make sure I get an accurate read. ...how does Trolling you give you an accurate read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Bystander she/her Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 Just now, Channelknight Fadran said: ...how does Trolling you give you an accurate read? If I know I've been trolled, I know that the read I have is the opposite of what it says. So, if you troll me, I'll know that I have been trolled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 inherently the game is tough for us so let us see the balancing mechanic. players getting live after death is not that much of an advantage (only one vote) over no flips tbh. wouldnt expect 2 kills for baddies in a cycle. 23 minutes ago, Amanuensis said: I will say, I'm beginning to entertain my paranoia of e!Coinshot!Stick/Drake again. I actually don't believe giving the elims a second kill role is too insane this game, considering the fact players can still talk afterward and there's lots of ways to interfere with it (troll, roleblock, protect) and not to mention Goalkeeper Troll Kills to give us NK power too why didnt he kill last cycle then? i admit i entertained the idea particularly drakes behaviour around tkn/xino kill (i get it seemed like he wanted to do a reaction test but he seemed as confused as the rest of us on who killed who xD). the missing kill is the one thing thats still preventing me from going there. 33 minutes ago, Shining Silhouette said: BIG ASSUMPTION but I think Ash's role is really OP and wouldn't be given to an elim @Ashbringer, do you have 1 immunity against lynches or is it a permanent immunity? if it is once, its not op for a baddie to have. two day roles really empties that night slot for the nk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xinoehp512 he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 11 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said: Is this an MR29 reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, |TJ| said: @Ashbringer, do you have 1 immunity against lynches or is it a permanent immunity? if it is once, its not op for a baddie to have. two day roles really empties that night slot for the nk. Permanent. I will never die during the day turn. Also apparently dead Elims can send in the NK too, they've got a permanent free night slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channelknight Fadran Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, Random Bystander said: If I know I've been trolled, I know that the read I have is the opposite of what it says. So, if you troll me, I'll know that I have been trolled. Several problems: If someone were to troll me, you would not receive an opposing result. This is always an issue, of course, but still. We don't know if anyone has any false-read-proof roles. I'm somewhat worried that my own Confirmed Villager role acts as an anti-smoker role of sorts, which is why I was trying to commission a rolescanner. Similar to the first issue, this is one we'd have to take into account regardless. The most pressing: we never discovered if a trolled rolescan gives the exact opposite result - just that it gives an incorrect one. With several neutral roles in this game, it's possible that a Villager might not appear as an Elim if your ability was trolled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, |TJ| said: inherently the game is tough for us so let us see the balancing mechanic. players getting live after death is not that much of an advantage (only one vote) over no flips tbh. wouldnt expect 2 kills for baddies in a cycle. What about, though, the scanners, the lurchers, the coinshots, and the two kinds of action replicators? Like sure the living after death isn't a super big deal but all that seems pretty relevant to game balance :P. Edit: Just now, Channelknight Fadran said: With several neutral roles in this game, it's possible that a Villager might not appear as an Elim if your ability was trolled. Are we playing the same game? xD Edited February 7, 2023 by Matrim's Dice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channelknight Fadran Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Matrim's Dice said: Are we playing the same game? xD I was under the impression that there were neutrals??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 Just now, Channelknight Fadran said: I was under the impression that there were neutrals??? Who/What/Where/When/Why and How :P. Legitimately confused where this conclusion came from lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channelknight Fadran Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 We've been talking about them for four cycles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 Just now, Channelknight Fadran said: We've been talking about them for four cycles I repeat: Are we playing the same game? xD We haven't talked about them since like D2 or whenever it was when Aman claimed his actual role and got Lynchbait-scanned village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 Just now, Matrim's Dice said: What about, though, the scanners, the lurchers, the coinshots, and the two kinds of action replicators? Like sure the living after death isn't a super big deal but all that seems pretty relevant to game balance :P. uhhh i didnt get you, sorry? i mean it is relevant to game balance yes, but it doesnt tilt the balance against elims as much as flipless does against village imo. and in addition, i think though dead players can still speak, they kinda do lose the motivation (or perhaps have less motivation than when alive) to actually solve the game as i think it has been observed so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Silhouette he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, |TJ| said: @Ashbringer, do you have 1 immunity against lynches or is it a permanent immunity? if it is once, its not op for a baddie to have. two day roles really empties that night slot for the nk. E!Ash can also be replaced with E!Drake E!Drake can be replaced with E!Ash for same results above Edited February 7, 2023 by Shining Silhouette misspoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wandering Wizard he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 I think that everyone is forgetting something quite important. Drake was the one who shot Tani. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channelknight Fadran Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said: I repeat: Are we playing the same game? xD We haven't talked about them since like D2 or whenever it was when Aman claimed his actual role and got Lynchbait-scanned village. (>0-0)> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Order he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) I would like to note we have no evidence of Ash's role, especially considering the kinda blatant attempts to break the tie, I'm hesitant to believe Ash is even a Thug. Edit: Nevermind. That got retconned apparently. Edited February 7, 2023 by The Known Novel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wandering Wizard he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 Just now, The Known Novel said: I would like to note we have no evidence of Ash's role, especially considering the kinda blatant attempts to break the tie, I'm hesitant to believe Ash is even a Thug. Uh, Ash died but lived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Order he/him Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 minute ago, The Wandering Wizard said: Uh, Ash died but lived Dirty retconners. Han shot first, Kaladin killer Szeth, and Ash didn't bloody die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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