Long Game 92: Process of Elimination

[Biplet she/her]

1 minute ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Also thank you for naming the turn after me, tis a great honor <3

And to all the villagers: Before clicking on the elim doc or master sheet, guess the elim team. Cause I’d bet no one gets it 100%  

OH WAIT I SHOULDN'T HAVE OUTED MYSELF HECK

okay yeah guess, guess it

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Goodness seeing the actual flips finally is a heck of a thing

gg folks

thanks for running this absurd game Kas & Fifth

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Thank you Kas & Fifth for running this game. It was an honor to participate!

[Mat he/him]

5 minutes ago, Biplet said:

OH WAIT I SHOULDN'T HAVE OUTED MYSELF HECK

okay yeah guess, guess it

xD You’re good, as I insisted many times during the game

[Archer he/him]

Good game, all. I'm still kicking myself over not anticipating the kill-blocking maneuver, but I'll chalk it up to the endurance element of the game being a bit much to handle at times. 

Thanks for running it, GMs, IM.

Shoutout to @_Stick_. <3

[Kasimir he/him]

25 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

• I do not blame our loss on the abundance of scans.

You guys actually got very lucky with the dice rolls. But now I can explain how this works, and this is pre-AAR:

• PM Spiders had two levels of RNG: first, for which of the fact categories they got - <Alignment, Role, Target, Action, Targeted.> If they got a fact category that was poorly populated like Alignment, then they straightaway got the fact. If they didn't, e.g. Target, then we RNG for which targeting info they can receive.
   
• In addition, PM Spiders do not receive info already known. So Archer would never receive alignment info, because we take it as known that as an Elim, this player knows the alignments of other players. This does entail that specialising in a player gets you more info over time.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Kasimir

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

I have to say the entertainment value of this game was off the charts for me.

Thanks for running a great game, Kas/Fifth!

[Kasimir he/him]

Oh, and for reference, this is the PM that all DDoSed and Removed Players (orange?) received:

You were DDoSed and are now a Removed Player!

Quote

Removed Player: You have been removed or DDoSed from the subforum, but have managed to reconnect and login. You no longer count towards your team’s wincon. You have no role abilities but may continue to discuss in thread and in any ongoing PMs you may have. You have one more vote, which may be used during any Day in the remainder of the game. Use it wisely.

To be clear:

-You are still Village-aligned and win with the Village.
-You lose Pinch-Hitter and also Analyst.
-You have one more vote, that's it, to be used any Day.
-We no longer count you for parity purposes.

Just as a slight in-game tangent meme, we've been sending this cat video to all dead players and would like you to make up one lie/embellishment about it. Fair warning, Wyrm thinks it is fairly cursed  

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Archer he/him]

11 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

You guys actually got very lucky with the dice rolls. But now I can explain how this works, and this is pre-AAR:

• PM Spiders had two levels of RNG: first, for which of the fact categories they got - <Alignment, Role, Target, Action, Targeted.> If they got a fact category that was poorly populated like Alignment, then they straightaway got the fact. If they didn't, e.g. Target, then we RNG for which targeting info they can receive.
   
• In addition, PM Spiders do not receive info already known. So Archer would never receive alignment info, because we take it as known that as a known that as an Elim, this player knows the alignments of other players. This does entail that specialising in a player gets you more info over time.

This feels directed at someone but I can't figure out who :P. I like the approach. With all the claims in play and a loose expectation that I would never get something as good as a full role breakdown, the utility seemed low for an elim compared to say ensuring the NK went through. On this topic, I'll also note that the retroactive results were a terrifying prospect to deal with. I think Bip might have been outed for submitting an NK if the village had really gone after her and gotten good rolls. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Archer

[Mat he/him]

I knew something was off about the cat video

Also I feel like our luckiest break might have been Stick subbing out o_0

[JNV]

Hi question from the wording of Confirmed Villager does that mean Id only ever find alingment info from them causel ike you say unlocks GM fact pool if role swapped away if so what would I find out if I scanned Matrim again cause you said its new facts 

This was fun the only thing that wouldhave made it better would be if I had a quokka related role but I mean the fake flip made up for it plus the alignment things were really funny honestly like I scan the one evil person who gets shown green I get an evil scan on a dead person like it could be a sitcom subplot the trials and tribulations of this one really unlucky spider

Also thanks for PM spider data I was wondering and I was right about the one fourth thing ha

Edited February 23, 2023 by JNV

[Ashbringer he/him]

Ctrl-F's my name in Elim Doc

... you guys just used my roles lists instead of building your own? xD

Sorry I already looked, but you're right I wouldn't have. 

Thoughts!

Spoiler

• I actually wasn't a Thug. Kinda wish I was. Would have been funny, but no, Kas made me immune to Removal which can't go to an Elim without breaking everything.
• Very happy I called JNV as UPS, I liked that part 
• I also called Steel not calling out a second Lynchbait
• Thread Master worked and got Sart and Steel and that... okay Drake's right and he would have just shot Sart but hey I killed an Elim 
• Don't know if I expected more or less mentions in the dead doc...

I do feel like I/we played this game a bit... ruthless? We don't have flips, and near the end I basically threw out whatever alignment scans we had and just went pure Process of Elimination. Which was the play, because we could handle pretty much anything besides E!Confirmed-Villager!Aman, and if Kas made E!Confirmed-Villager!Aman then he's building the Elim team a steamroller  but the PoE steamroller kinda ran over a bunch of people, and as mentioned there wasn't... really anything that Mat could do at the end. Maaaaaybe try and get a Drake exe, but that needs Drake to shoot not-Mat first, and I and a few other people would have a slight issue with that. 

Also there's one meme I want to do but I can't find the template for it ack

[Mat he/him]

Just now, JNV said:

Hi question from the wording of Confirmed Villager does that mean Id only ever find alingment info from them causel ike you say unlocks GM fact pool if role swapped away if so what would I find out if I scanned Matrim again cause you said its new facts 

Oh-- also, the specifics of CV (hi, that's me) was that I appeared village to any information gathering abilities-- Tie Guy, target scans, etc included. Just for anyone who didn't read the full rules doc.

Edit: @Ashbringer I made that table D1, wdym  If you mean I stopped updating it once you starting posting them, uh, guilty as charged

Edited February 23, 2023 by Matrim's Dice

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

And to all the villagers: Before clicking on the elim doc or master sheet, guess the elim team. Cause I’d bet no one gets it 100%  

Spoiler

Well no it wasn't my top guess but tbf I did persistently say I got village vibes off JNV, and I also did predict that you were the most likely elim Confirmed Villager

I just thought a world where JNV was evil was a good deal simpler as an explanation

And that had knock-on effects because of Orlok's Tie Guy scan and the fact that the elims were unlikely to be more than 6 players

...and in earlier turns than the endgame, I did obviously see fit to suspect both Archer and Bip

But once again village JNV was sacrificed in the lategame due to pragmatism

Also, sorry to the handful of villagers I DDoS'd look you don't go a 10 cycle game as a vigi without getting some blood on your hands >>

 

[danex he/him]

i’m so fn good at this game 

 

anyways, this game was pretty fun, I don’t think the zombie mechanic worked all that well tbh. I’d rather just get to hang out in a dead doc.

[Archer he/him]

1 minute ago, dannnnnex said:

i’m so fn good at this game 

 

anyways, this game was pretty fun, I don’t think the zombie mechanic worked all that well tbh. I’d rather just get to hang out in a dead doc.

I would have made it so casting your final vote perma kills you. It's a shame we never got to get into a hammer fight though, I'd be curious what the outcome would be. 

Quote

And that had knock-on effects because of Orlok's Tie Guy scan and the fact that the elims were unlikely to be more than 6 players

Forgot to mention, Tie Guy was a bit much in a world where mass claiming and enforcement and no elim Troll or Vote Manip allows for it to happen twice in a game and for the person to be scanned with confidence. I understand it's hard to anticipate thread conditions though. 

That said, if y'all had simply believed in e!Silh this would have gone so much easier  >:-(

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

20 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

... you guys just used my roles lists instead of building your own? xD

Ash I am pretty sure the only people who weren't completely relying on your roles lists was the GMs, and even then you never know

Usually I'm slightly suspicious about posts that are more focused on just presenting data than on voicing opions, but in this game it was the only way I had any idea what was going on especially what with joining kinda late

you are a saint for creating those lists

 

edit: I don't know what I expected the cat video to be, but... I did not expect it to be that.

Edited February 23, 2023 by DrakeMarshall

[Ashbringer he/him]

Okay I made the meme myself 

Spoiler

 

[Araris Valerian he/him]

My team guess:

Spoiler

Steel, Archer, Biplet, Mat, Sart, Tani

And to echo Drake, @Ashbringer you were a lifesaver with your lists. There was no way I was doing any rereads this game.

Also, good game everyone! Apparently my incompetence foiled the forces of evil once again.

Best part of the elim doc:

Quote

 

ARARIS

METALCOGNITION

VALARIAN

What do you meeeeeeean you didn’t check anyone .______. Will use your middle name in scolding u sir >:| 

 

I accounted for everything in that plan.

And the village still found a way to mess it up! Lmaaaaaaaaaaaao

Unbelievable

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Araris Valerian

[Kasimir he/him]

41 minutes ago, Archer said:

This feels directed at someone but I can't figure out who :P.

I think every PM Spider asked this at some point

41 minutes ago, JNV said:

Hi question from the wording of Confirmed Villager does that mean Id only ever find alingment info from them causel ike you say unlocks GM fact pool if role swapped away if so what would I find out if I scanned Matrim again cause you said its new facts 

So basically CV is a passive that comes before anything and makes Mat scan as though he were a Regular Villager. You receive facts consistent with that. Suppose he lost it and you scanned him. You now basically receive anything since everything you got before was a lie.

41 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

and if Kas made E!Confirmed-Villager!Aman then he's building the Elim team a steamroller 

I can comment that one meta consideration was that I'd be putting Aman in a position where the optimal thing to do was to basically disbelieve Aman or distrust scans about him. Given certain meta concerns, it was not a position I was comfortable putting that particular player in. We did get more license with the distro because this was a blackout. But more on that in actual AAR.

I also just really wanted to avoid an E!Aman team. It's an easy way to balance this but it also felt absurdly lazy and uncreative.

37 minutes ago, Archer said:

Forgot to mention, Tie Guy was a bit much in a world where mass claiming and enforcement and no elim Troll or Vote Manip allows for it to happen twice in a game and for the person to be scanned with confidence. I understand it's hard to anticipate thread conditions though. 

Don't disagree, though the main change I would have made was actually to go E!TS and give that to you guys. I think that would have reduced claiming impunity quite a bit.

[Walin he/him]

Awesome game. I stopped following it soon after I was dead; in hindsight I probably should have helped with a couple hammers but I'm not going through a thread this long if I have anything to say about it. I'm busy enough as it is.

Well done, everyone! (Happy dance for the villagers)

[StrikerEZ he/him]

Oop forgot to post in this thread. Just wanted to quickly say that I had a blast those first couple cycles. Getting Lynchbait was so much fun, even if it bit me in the butt. And it was hilarious being the first to die and come back. I'm so glad I got to be the guinea pig for that. Anyway, thank you @Kasimir and @Fifth Scholar for running this game! And thanks to @Elandera helping out as an IM!

[JNV]

23 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

So basically CV is a passive that comes before anything and makes Mat scan as though he were a Regular Villager. You receive facts consistent with that. Suppose he lost it and you scanned him. You now basically receive anything since everything you got before was a lie.

Oh I didnt phrase that well I meant if I scanned Matrim twice with them still as Confirmed Villager and everything what would happen

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, JNV said:

Oh I didnt phrase that well I meant if I scanned Matrim twice with them still as Confirmed Villager and everything what would happen

If you got an alignment fact, we'd reroll. If you got a role fact, you either get Regular Villager or Tunnel Constructor. If you get targeting, we RNG among the players that targeted Mat. If you get target, we roll for Turn and tell you there is no target because a Regular Villager wouldn't have one. Only fact that could override this is if Mat used TC. If you get action, same deal. He cannot be scanned as having put in the Elim kill or indeed, as having had any action at all because a Regular Villager wouldn't.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Quote

(from the elim doc)

IIRC 17S uses Cloudflare which is DDoS protection, and DDoSing an individual player is weird, but Drake and I were struggling for a while on flavour. In this game, DDoS is just the term used for NKs and assorted kills (if any exist.)

Well, about that!

There is a less common type of DDoS attack called a crossfire attack which could hypothetically be used to surgically block a selected client from reaching a selected web site, and which would also hypothetically be able to bypass Cloudflare's protections under the right circumstances.

This is because it attacks the infrastructure of the internet instead of a particular web site You are identifying key choke points where a lot of network traffic get routed through on the way to a web site, and then overloading those choke points instead of going after the web site itself. The main appeal of this kind of attack is that the victim doesn't necessarily even have any way of knowing they are being attacked or by who, they just suddenly lose service.

It's the kind of thing that security eggheads find very interesting on principle but which doesn't actually occur very much in the wild

Thank u for coming to my TED Talk