Are the listeners/singers mammalian?

[Treamayne]

46 minutes ago, Nogo said:

Random comment about the 3 ear bone thing... do the sounds of Roshar have any influence on that argument?  If Singers & Listeners heard through the 3-bone system could they hear the sounds of Roshar? Or are these two separate types of hearing.  I don't have an opinion--the question just sort of jumped into my mind.

When a Listener attunes a Rhythm, they are "hearing" something from the Spiritual Realm (which is why they can use it to coordinate their attacks - the SR has no time or place, so Singers attuning the same rhythm are always in time with each other even when out of visual range). In the Physical realm, they are matching the cadence of their words/humming/etc. to the rhythm they have attuned; thereby conveying their "emotion."

[Nogo]

18 hours ago, Treamayne said:

When a Listener attunes a Rhythm, they are "hearing" something from the Spiritual Realm (which is why they can use it to coordinate their attacks - the SR has no time or place, so Singers attuning the same rhythm are always in time with each other even when out of visual range). In the Physical realm, they are matching the cadence of their words/humming/etc. to the rhythm they have attuned; thereby conveying their "emotion."

So you're saying that hearing the sounds of Roshar is not done through the 3-bone system, but all their other hearing is through the 3-bone system?

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Nogo said:

So you're saying that hearing the sounds of Roshar is not done through the 3-bone system, but all their other hearing is through the 3-bone system?

I'm saying that inner ear bones are for the auditory sense in the physical realm. Hearing the Rhythms and Pure Tones of Roshar is a function of Connection in the Spiritual realm.

[Argenti he/him]

On 4/23/2023 at 3:51 PM, Treamayne said:

I'm saying that inner ear bones are for the auditory sense in the physical realm. Hearing the Rhythms and Pure Tones of Roshar is a function of Connection in the Spiritual realm.

 

On 4/23/2023 at 2:30 PM, Nogo said:

So you're saying that hearing the sounds of Roshar is not done through the 3-bone system, but all their other hearing is through the 3-bone system?

If you really want an organ that it's done through, it's probably their gem heart. Humans don't have one and can't hear it, everything else can

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Argenti said:

If you really want an organ that it's done through, it's probably their gem heart. Humans don't have one and can't hear it, everything else can

Navani is the proof that's not the case.

[Argenti he/him]

2 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Navani is the proof that's not the case.

Wait Navani heard the Rhythms? I thought she just memorized it? Well guess thats what happens when you haven't read the books in a year and a half

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, Argenti said:

Wait Navani heard the Rhythms? I thought she just memorized it? Well guess thats what happens when you haven't read the books in a year and a half

Memorized the Rhythms?? That would be very impressive. But she heard them which is also impressive.

[Argenti he/him]

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Memorized the Rhythms?? That would be very impressive. But she heard them which is also impressive.

Coppermind claims she was taught them, though perhaps it means she was taught how to hear them?

[alder24]

11 minutes ago, Argenti said:

Coppermind claims she was taught them, though perhaps it means she was taught how to hear them?

She can hear them, RoW ch 110:

Quote

Then, a pure song. Rising up from within her. Orderly, powerful. Had she done harm without realizing it? Possibly. Had she made mistakes? Certainly. But she’d been trying to help. That was her journey. A journey to discover, learn, and make the world better.
Honor’s song welled up inside her, and she sang it.

But yes, she was first taught the Rhythm, and she learned how to hear them by herself, RoW ch 76:

Quote

“Sing one for me,” Navani said. “Honor’s tone and rhythm.”
Raboniel complied, singing a pure, vibrant note—the tone of Stormlight, the same as made by the tuning fork. Then she made the tone waver, vibrate, pulse in a stately rhythm. Navani hummed along, matching the tone, trying to affix it into her mind. Raboniel was obviously overemphasizing the rhythm, making it easier for her to recognize.

[...]

She could feel them now, cool but warming to her touch. Infused gemstones always had a tempest inside. Was there a sound to them too? A vibration ...
Could she hear it in there? The tone, the rhythm? With Raboniel singing, she thought she could. She matched that tone, and felt something on her arm. The gemstones reacting—or rather the Stormlight inside reacting.
There was a beat to it. One that Raboniel’s rhythm only hinted at. Navani could sing the tone and feel the gemstones respond. It was like having a stronger singer beside her—she could adapt her voice to match. The Stormlight itself guided her—providing a control, with a beat and rhythm.
Navani added that rhythm to her tone, tapping her foot, concentrating. She imagined a phantom song to give it structure.

 

[Argenti he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

She can hear them, RoW ch 110:

But yes, she was first taught the Rhythm, and she learned how to hear them by herself, RoW ch 76:

 

Thanks for clearing that up! 

I really need to reread everything

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Argenti said:

Wait Navani heard the Rhythms? I thought she just memorized it? Well guess thats what happens when you haven't read the books in a year and a half

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

She can hear them, RoW ch 110:

But yes, she was first taught the Rhythm, and she learned how to hear them by herself, RoW ch 76:

Navani first "hears" the tones by vibration transference (the same reason you can "hear" your stomach growl - which is an intestinal vibration transferred to the cochlear bones through your skeleton), first by touching Raboniel as she hums the tones, then by touching spheres with the appropriate Light. Eventually, she develops a Connection to the Light and tones, which culminate in actually hearing the tones when bonding the Sibling - which is why I said above that hearing Tones is SR via Connection - not based on an organ hearing a PR noise. 

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Nogo]

On 5/7/2023 at 2:46 PM, Treamayne said:

Navani first "hears" the tones by vibration transference (the same reason you can "hear" your stomach growl - which is an intestinal vibration transferred to the cochlear bones through your skeleton), first by touching Raboniel as she hums the tones, then by touching spheres with the appropriate Light. Eventually, she develops a Connection to the Light and tones, which culminate in actually hearing the tones when bonding the Sibling - which is why I said above that hearing Tones is SR via Connection - not based on an organ hearing a PR noise. 

 

That makes a whole lot of sense.  Especially since investiture comes from the SR so the different rhythms/tones would then be a spiritual connection.   Here's my weird tangent thought on this... Have we "heard" investiture on in any other system?   I can't think of one, but I'm no expert.  That begs the question of "why not?"   Does Roshar itself do something that brings the tones out?   Why are there pure tones of Roshar but none of Scandrial or Nalthis or wherever?   or are there but no one (that has spoken up in a book yet) can "hear" them?       Or do you think we've stayed too far off topic... probably but whatever.

[Treamayne]

12 minutes ago, Nogo said:

Have we "heard" investiture on in any other system?   I can't think of one, but I'm no expert.  That begs the question of "why not?" 

Certainly (Mistborn, Elantris)

Spoiler

Bronze pulses are seekers "hearing" the rhythm of the metals, and Seons "pulse" to emotion rhythms throughout the book.

Spoiler

Aethenoth

Can an Allomantic bronze burner hear the Rhythms on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, this is possible.

Spoiler

Elantris Ch 32

“All right,” Sarene said. “So after I ran off, Ashe called your seon and told you I was pursuing the king.”

“‘The foolish girl is going off to get herself killed’ were his exact words, I believe,” Roial said, chuckling.

“Ashe!”

“I apologize, my lady,” the seon said, pulsing in embarrassment. “I was rather out of sorts.”

 

11 minutes ago, Nogo said:

Why are there pure tones of Roshar but none of Scandrial or Nalthis or wherever?

Mistborn

Spoiler

Menderbug

Is the Well's pulsing a 'pure tone of Scadrial'?

Brandon Sanderson

Yup!

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Treamayne

[Nogo]

Perfect!  And that sir, is why I am far from the expert.  Pretty much wraps it up as far as I'm concerned!  Nice little bow and everything.