Random Twinborn Combos: Go!

[Koloss17 She/They]

1 hour ago, mip67 said:

I feel that while this is a wonderful supporting combo, it doesn't deserve a 9/10. Detection of allomancy/feruchemy isn't super useful if you can't really do anything about it, and this combo has next to no fighting ability (although zinc might be kinda useful in combat). I would give this an 8 or 7 out of 10.

I mean, that is why I said that it would be more like an 8/10. Personally though, not from a power standpoint, but from a “that’s actually a really cool twinborn!” Standpoint, I’d give it a 9/10.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

2 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Random Twinborn Combo Day 9:

A-Bronze and F-Zinc

(detecting Allomancers and storing mental speed)

Oh I’m actually really excited for this one!

Alright first thing’s first: bronze. Bronze technically doesn’t just detect Allomancy. It detects any sort of kinetic investiture, i.e. any investiture that is actively being used in some way, and isn’t just sitting around. While that has a load of fun consequences for Worldhoppers, it also means feruchemy can be detected. Now, it is detected in a different way than just pulses, so you would need to be looking for it (or be very clever) to notice it.

Now this is where F-Zinc comes in. Mental speed would almost certainly enable you to figure out what to look for, and spot it much easier. I’m addition, it’s just really nice.

Put the two together, and you have someone who can know exactly which metal is being burned, and which metal is being tapped/stored pretty easily. Of course any Seeker could theoretically learn that, but it is super easy for a twinborn like this.

Resonance: I would think that it would be an increased ability to notice small details, even when not using F-Zinc. A heightened astuteness, basically.

Name: Either Hunter, which I personally prefer, or Detective. Your call.

Rating: A fun combo, that seems both useful and powerful. I would personally put this as a 9/10, but could hear the argument for an 8/10.

I prefer Hunter over Detective, but I suppose something like Pursuer, Predator or just Radar would be accurate too 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I prefer Hunter over Detective, but I suppose something like Pursuer, Predator or just Radar would be accurate too 

Oh Radar is a good one.

I would say Detective for A-tin + F-zinc combo.

Edited April 29, 2023 by alder24

[Koloss17 She/They]

Sorry for the late post today! 
 

Random Twinborn Combo Day 10:

A-Steel and F-Electrum

Y’know, I’m starting to think the F-Electrum isn’t the most useful of metals. Dare I say-the worst Feruchemantic metal? Maybe there’s something big about it that I’m missing. Maybe I am seriously undervaluing the power of determination (I’m sorry Frisk, but it ain’t what you make it to be). But to me, it seems to be quite the niche ability. Let me know what you think!

 

Alright back to the task at hand. A-Steel is great, as you get to fly and stab people, so what’s not to like? You also get a funky 360 degree investiture sensing sight, which is also cool as heck. 
 

Paired with F-Electrum, I’m not seeing much. To me, this combo just seems to be a slight upgrade from a coinshot, but that’s it. Maybe I’m wrong though!

Resonance: Maybe a lack of fears? Basically mixing the crazy height and stunts you get from A-steel with determination. 
 

Name: if I were to give a hardly in-world name, it would be a Flightleader. But in world, something like Stuntman. 
 

Rating: Better than just a ferring or an Allomancer of each type, but that’s a given. Don’t quite know otherwise. 3/10.

[alder24]

15 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Y’know, I’m starting to think the F-Electrum isn’t the most useful of metals. Dare I say-the worst Feruchemantic metal? Maybe there’s something big about it that I’m missing. Maybe I am seriously undervaluing the power of determination (I’m sorry Frisk, but it ain’t what you make it to be). But to me, it seems to be quite the niche ability. Let me know what you think!

Did you ever have something really important to do and you just didn't want to stop watching cat videos, get off the couch and start doing that thing? With a bit of determination, you would just do it!  

Determination would be a great tool for daily applications, to somebody doing the same work every day, to keep training regularly, and also for somebody like a scientist/inventor to be more determined to find a solution to a problem he's facing - things that wouldn't be shown that much on pages of the book, rather just mentioned that they had happened in between two chapters. But in combat applications? Not so much, unless you're stuck in the trenches of WW1.

15 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Paired with F-Electrum, I’m not seeing much. To me, this combo just seems to be a slight upgrade from a coinshot, but that’s it. Maybe I’m wrong though!

Resonance: Maybe a lack of fears? Basically mixing the crazy height and stunts you get from A-steel with determination. 

Electrum would be useful for a coinshot with fear of heights. And to be motivated to train, but conishoters usually just love being in the air, so that's not a problem for them.

Edited April 30, 2023 by alder24

[mip67]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Did you ever have something really important to do and you just didn't want to stop watching cat videos, get off the couch and start doing that thing? With a bit of determination, you would just do it!  

Determination would be a great tool for daily applications, to somebody doing the same work every day, to keep training regularly, and also for somebody like a scientist/inventor to be more determined to find a solution to a problem he's facing - things that wouldn't be shown that much on pages of the book, rather just mentioned that they had happened in between two chapters. But in combat applications? Not so much, unless you're stuck in the trenches of WW1.

Electrum would be useful for a coinshot with fear of heights. And to be motivated to train, but conishoters usually just love being in the air, so that's not a problem for them.

I agree with this, Electrum would be super useful in daily life. However, it doesn't resonate well with any metal I can think of (except maaaybe tin?) so it doesn't do anything super flashy. If you had a bunch stored up, I can see it being sorta useful in making yourself a savant, seeing as most of the allomantic savants needed some sort of determination to keep themselves flaring (I believe Spook had his guilt, for example, to drive him to continuously flare tin)

Edited April 30, 2023 by mip67

[alder24]

1 minute ago, mip67 said:

I agree with this, Electrum would be super useful in daily life. However, it doesn't resonate well with any metal I can think of (except maaaybe tin?) so it doesn't do anything super flashy. If you had a bunch stored up, I can see it being sorta useful in making yourself a savant, seeing as most of the allomantic savants needed some sort of determination to keep themselves flaring (I believe Spook had his guilt, Miles used bloodmaking very often and also compounded. For Tarson... idk, but maybe he hit stuff a lot due to being koloss blooded?)

The only thing I can think of is when you're a full Feruchemist and you don't want to store attributes in metalminds because it's very uncomfortable and painful to do so. Bad sight, taste, hearing, no strength, slow as a snail, cold, ill, thinking painfully slow etc. This is a very effective discouragement from keeping your metalminds full, and a bit of determination will help you overcome that. But that's really it in terms of applications with a combination of other metalic arts. Maybe when you're a Hemalurgist who wants to gain power, but really doesn't want to kill people, extra determination will help (you, not the person you're going to kill). But that's not really a combination with other power.

[mip67]

Ah, I didn't think of that. I would say being a full feruchemist would be great for storing attributes, reduced mental speed means you perceive yourself as suffering for less time. unless reduced mental speed reduced the rate at which you stored mental attributes (such as the aforementioned determination) and reduced physical speed reduced the speed at which you stored physical attributes (such as strength). To me, this also brings up the question of whether cadmium and bendalloy in time bubbles change the rate at which you store attributes, because if they do, bendalloy becomes a useful feruchemical tool, and if they don't, cadmium immediately gains another use.

Also, that was a fast quote, it only took me about a minute to perform the edit.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, mip67 said:

Ah, I didn't think of that. I would say being a full feruchemist would be great for storing attributes, reduced mental speed means you perceive yourself as suffering for less time. unless reduced mental speed reduced the rate at which you stored mental attributes (such as the aforementioned determination) and reduced physical speed reduced the speed at which you stored physical attributes (such as strength).

Reduced mental speed might make you to store all Feruchemical attributes at a reduced rate, as using F-steel for physical speed will change the rate at which you burn Allomantic metals. Burning metals is a physiological/physical process, so it fits that physical speed will change its rate. Similarly, storing/tapping attributes might be more of a mental process, which could change the rate at which you store them. But in the case of Feruchemy, there is no WoB on that, like in the case of Allomancy:

Spoiler

ElephantEarwax

Would tapping Feruchemical speed cause you to burn metals faster as your whole body speeds up?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. I think it probably would. I don't know if we've gotten to that interaction yet, but it probably would. Good question. If it's speeding up... Yeah, I think it would. Good question. If you're in a speed bubble and doing it, it's totally going to do it, and there's some analogies there.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

6 minutes ago, mip67 said:

To me, this also brings up the question of whether cadmium and bendalloy in time bubbles change the rate at which you store attributes, because if they do, bendalloy becomes a useful feruchemical tool, and if they don't, cadmium immediately gains another use.

Time bubbles will change the rate at which you're storing metals (from the outside perspective), because your personal time frame is changed. 5 minutes for you in a bendalloy bubble is like 10 seconds from someone outside the bubble (numbers aren't accurate) but for you 5 minutes has passed, and you can burn 5 minutes of metal or store 5 minutes of attribute. It's time dilation.

For example, Rioter or Soother inside a bendalloy bubble could achieve a duralumin levels of emotional Allomancy, by simply burning their metals, because of time dilation:

Spoiler

Failsafe

If one were to Riot or Soothe out of a cadmium bubble or a bendalloy bubble, would the emotional Allomancy be effectual? If so, how would it be affected by the speed bubble, and how would that work in reverse?

Brandon Sanderson

If you were to... Someone's inside a bubble, and you're shooting Allomancy into it from outside, would it have an effect? The answer to that would be yes. Shooting out of it should work also. It is going to be affected though. I think depending on the speed of it, you're gonna end up with a stretching or condensing of it. If you're doing it from inside a bubble, you could probably effectively get something like a duralumin hit. And if you're doing it from outside in, and they're moving very fast, you're gonna have a lesser effect.

Questioner

Would it have some randomness, like a bullet?

Brandon Sanderson

You probably wouldn't be able to target... No, you would be able to. You would be fine. You can do kind of a cone, and things like that. It might be hard to hit the specific individual, but it wouldn't be as much trouble as a bullet.

Questioner

What about with duralumin?

Brandon Sanderson

The thing about duralumin is, if you wanted to extra duralumin it, what you'd have to do is eat some within a speed bubble, use it, then eat some more, then use it. You could therefore kind of multiply up, but yeah. So yes, you could do that, but you'd have to do it multiple times.

spectral.limina

Just to confirm, is that a fast bubble or slow bubble?

Brandon Sanderson

That'd be a fast bubble, cause you're piling it up. More time is passing for you than people outside. Basically, you're doing five times duralumin push in one burst. It could probably get pretty dangerous, some people's emotions.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

 

14 minutes ago, mip67 said:

Also, that was a fast quote, it only took me about a minute to perform the edit.

You know, i'm something of a steelrunner myself.

[mip67]

9 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Reduced mental speed might make you to store all Feruchemical attributes at a reduced rate, as using F-steel for physical speed will change the rate at which you burn Allomantic metals. Burning metals is a physiological/physical process, so it fits that physical speed will change its rate. Similarly, storing/tapping attributes might be more of a mental process, which could change the rate at which you store them. But in the case of Feruchemy, there is no WoB on that, like in the case of Allomancy:

Time bubbles will change the rate at which you're storing metals (from the outside perspective), because your personal time frame is changed. 5 minutes for you in a bendalloy bubble is like 10 seconds from someone outside the bubble (numbers aren't accurate) but for you 5 minutes has passed, and you can burn 5 minutes of metal or store 5 minutes of attribute. It's time dilation.

For example, Rioter or Soother inside a bendalloy bubble could achieve a duralumin levels of emotional Allomancy, by simply burning their metals, because of time dilation:

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[cometaryorbit]

On 4/26/2023 at 10:03 PM, Trusk'our said:

Awesome! Thank you! 

You see, the quote that @alder24 found about F-steel increasing the speed at which you burn your metals got me thinking; if you burn your pewter faster, you get the same amount of effect out of the metal burned- but that effect is going to be compacted over a shorter window of time.

Basically, the faster you tap your Steelmind, the faster you burn your pewter, and the more physical enhancement you get from it. You would very quickly would become far more powerful than any other Thug alive, easily handling ten times your normal strength, durability, stamina, dexterity, healing ability, and other physical aspects whilst also moving much faster than your enemies can. Not to mention that the more burn your pewter, the more extra speed you get from it, further increasing your total speed but without needing to tap more from your Steelminds.

Plus, since A-pewter increases your physical speed somewhat, that can be siphoned off into your Steelmind in your downtime, making it easier to store a large amount of physical speed.

The last useful effect of the combo wouldn't come into play very often (probably not at all without access to Compounding or some other way to get more F-speed stored up), but one of the physical limitations of F-steel is that it doesn't reduce heat from friction. However, pewter lets you resist extreme temperatures, and with it getting proportionately strengthened along your Feruchemical speed, you could use your A-pewter to let you move at speeds that normally would burn you up as a Steelrunner.

Now, pewter burns pretty quickly, so I'd say that this Twinborn would need to swallow a LOT of it, but as we've seen in TFE, this is something that Thugs wishing to Pewterdrag do anyway, so I think that if you prepare properly you could still use your enhanced A-pewter without too much complication.

As to what the Resonance is, it probably has something to do with

Wow. I'd already thought that A-pewter/F-steel and A-pewter/F-gold were probably the most powerful non-Compounding Twinborn in combat*, both because the powers individually are among the best and because A-pewter gives more speed or health to store, but that makes A-pewter/F-steel even better.

(Brandon's even said that an A-pewter/F-steel Twinborn would probably have a higher peak speed than double steel, since the A-pewter will help withstand the strain of wind resistance etc).

About the only downside (besides no Compounding, of course) is the loss of A-steel mobility. F-steel probably doesn't really speed up ballistic A-steel movement (since it doesn't speed up falling) - you could have higher accelerations since your burning is accelerated though- so F-steel and A-steel movement don't stack well; but the option of aerial mobility is really useful.

*although, in earlier post-Catacendre times when guns were less advanced and aluminum bullets presumably less common/available, A-steel/F-gold might win out due to ranged capability. By Wax's age, though, repeating firearms are quite good.

On 4/27/2023 at 11:08 AM, Koloss17 said:

Random Twinborn Combo Day 7:

A-Nicrosil and F-Electrum

(bursts target’s allomancy and storing determination)

So this one is interesting. Allomantic Nicrosil is really powerful. So powerful, in fact, that more Nicrobursts are enlisted into the Elendel military, because of the firepower they can give. Imagine a hyper steelpush, or a brutal show of strength in one blast. Theoretically, I think Nicros could burst feruchemy too, so long as the metal is ingested like Allomancy. Really good stuff.

F-Electrum isn’t as great. I suppose, if you were to be a soldier, determination would be quite nice. But last that and doing homework, it has quite niche uses.

 

4 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Sorry for the late post today! 
 

Random Twinborn Combo Day 10:

A-Steel and F-Electrum

Y’know, I’m starting to think the F-Electrum isn’t the most useful of metals. Dare I say-the worst Feruchemantic metal? Maybe there’s something big about it that I’m missing. Maybe I am seriously undervaluing the power of determination (I’m sorry Frisk, but it ain’t what you make it to be). But to me, it seems to be quite the niche ability. Let me know what you think!

I agree that F-Electrum is pretty poor. I wouldn't necessarily call it the absolutely worst - I'm not sure F-Aluminum or F-Nicrosil do anything at all unless you have other powers, so a pure Ferring of those types might be effectively a Gnat - but it might be the most unpleasant.

The Ars Arcanum describes it as "Pinnacle Ferrings can store determination in an electrum metalmind, entering a depressed state during active storage, and can tap it at a later time to enter a manic phase". That sounds more like a controlled form of bipolar disorder than simple 'determination' in the usual sense.

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Did you ever have something really important to do and you just didn't want to stop watching cat videos, get off the couch and start doing that thing? With a bit of determination, you would just do it!  

Determination would be a great tool for daily applications, to somebody doing the same work every day, to keep training regularly, and also for somebody like a scientist/inventor to be more determined to find a solution to a problem he's facing - things that wouldn't be shown that much on pages of the book, rather just mentioned that they had happened in between two chapters. But in combat applications? Not so much, unless you're stuck in the trenches of WW1.

Yeah, if it were pure determination/willpower there would be a ton of everyday-life uses. But the use of the word "manic" makes it sound (to me anyway) less good.

Edited April 30, 2023 by cometaryorbit

[Trusk'our he/him]

35 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Wow. I'd already thought that A-pewter/F-steel and A-pewter/F-gold were probably the most powerful non-Compounding Twinborn in combat*, both because the powers individually are among the best and because A-pewter gives more speed or health to store, but that makes A-pewter/F-steel even better.

I know, right? Honestly, this is currently my favorite Twinborn combo; it's just so powerful.

36 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

About the only downside (besides no Compounding, of course) is the loss of A-steel mobility. F-steel probably doesn't really speed up ballistic A-steel movement (since it doesn't speed up falling) - you could have higher accelerations since your burning is accelerated though- so F-steel and A-steel movement don't stack well; but the option of aerial mobility is really useful.

Well, because the A-pewter/F-steel Twinborn could increase their strength so much, they could probably do grasshopper-like jumps (like Vin was mentioned to be able to do in WoA, but better). Not as useful in most cases as A-steel, but could still be very useful for mobility.

Also, if you're falling a great distance (such as from one of your jumps) you could enhance your strength briefly to absorb the shock of landing.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

55 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yeah, if it were pure determination/willpower there would be a ton of everyday-life uses. But the use of the word "manic" makes it sound (to me anyway) less good.

I think by manic it really just means hell-bent on doing something, like determination to the point of mania where you forget about everything else, not the more negative connotations mania has, so there wouldn't be any other alterations in your mental state beyond the determination.

Your parallel of controlled Bipolar disorder is spot on, I think.

F-Electrum is just one of those powers that would be really good for miscellaneous everyday tasks but isn't super fitting for a book where other people have much flashier powers. It's kind of like Copper, where you can either be in a supporting role or have an ability that's useless in combat, except A-Copper still gives you the passive bonus of being immune to Emotional Allomancy and has funky interactions with other Manifestations of Investiture, and F-Copper gives you superhuman memory, is extremely useful since it lets you become a specialist in every field you can be bothered to read a book about, learn any language, and would be perfect for a mad scientist, detective or practically a Jack of all tricks since you could learn martial arts and such using it. F-Electrum's only advantage is making you really want to do something, and it provides no other supernatural benefits, not to mention you have to spend an equivalent amount of time being depressed to the point of inaction to achieve even that. F-Electrum has its work cut out for it, and while it would certainly have plenty of uses in real life, any uses in-world are gonna be ones that don't make it onto the page.

In short, if you're a Pinnacle, don't expect to be the main character of a Sanderson novel anytime soon :/

Edited May 1, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[mip67]

38 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

F-Copper gives you superhuman memory, is extremely useful since it lets you become a specialist in every field you can be bothered to read a book about, learn any language, and would be perfect for a mad scientist, detective or practically a Jack of all tricks since you could learn martial arts and such using it

I can agree with this, but I have issues with the "learn martial arts and such" bit. A lot of martial arts is muscle memory, as is speaking languages (although if you know the constructions and words you can eke out a decent conversation).

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

Just now, mip67 said:

I can agree with this, but I have issues with the "learn martial arts and such" bit. A lot of martial arts is muscle memory, as is speaking languages (although if you know the constructions and words you can eke out a decent conversation).

We see Sazed has learned some 300 (IIRC) languages using his Copperminds in TFE (and can actively implement them, such as translating Alendi's Logbook), and once you memorize a book about martial arts, you're only consistent training sessions away from being a ninja.

[mip67]

Just now, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

We see Sazed has learned some 300 (IIRC) languages using his Copperminds in TFE (and can actively implement them, such as translating Alendi's Logbook), and once you memorize a book about martial arts, you're only consistent training sessions away from being a ninja.

Ok, I forgot about the Sazed thing, I was wrong on that front.

But martial arts I'll stand my ground on. Yes, theory can be important, but that's all you can really learn from a book. Best case, you're learning the most efficient way to train your body. You really only need consistent training sessions in real life anyway, it doesn't provide very much assistance.

I'm curious if copper can store muscle memory, or just stores normal memories. The coppermind only mentions "memories"

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

3 minutes ago, mip67 said:

I'm curious if copper can store muscle memory, or just stores normal memories. The coppermind only mentions "memories"

It can't. There's a WoB on this, I just have no idea how to find and quote it.

As for the martial arts, you're absolutely right, but having an entire instructions guideline on it completely committed to memory can only make it easier

[Treamayne]

20 minutes ago, mip67 said:

I'm curious if copper can store muscle memory, or just stores normal memories. The coppermind only mentions "memories"

15 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

It can't. There's a WoB on this, I just have no idea how to find and quote it.

Here's the WoB:

Spoiler

Stormlightning

Can you coppermind muscle memory?

Brandon Sanderson

No. Good question, I've haven't ever been asked that before.

For this one, at least, it is linked from the Coppermind Entry:

Spoiler

Copperminds can not store muscle memory.^[20]

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Treamayne
Clarity

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

1 minute ago, Treamayne said:

Here's the WoB:

  Hide contents

Stormlightning

Can you coppermind muscle memory?

Brandon Sanderson

No. Good question, I've haven't ever been asked that before.

 

Thanks!

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

We see Sazed has learned some 300 (IIRC) languages using his Copperminds in TFE (and can actively implement them, such as translating Alendi's Logbook), and once you memorize a book about martial arts, you're only consistent training sessions away from being a ninja.

He didn't learn it, he had them memorized, like a dictionary. It took him months to fully translate the book. I think he even mentioned it one time that it's not as practical as it seems.

Martial arts are different. Good memory won't make you a fearsome warrior. You can learn correct stances and strikes from a book, but that would only help you train, and won't make you a fighter. You need to physically train your body to develop correct habits and muscle memory (which isn't memory). Plus a book is not that good medium for martial art learning, it can only show you a part of correct position, not the whole movement, because of that you can learn bad things, bad positions, bad stances and moves, reinforce it and be at a disadvantage when you meet a real martial artist.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

28 minutes ago, alder24 said:

He didn't learn it, he had them memorized, like a dictionary. It took him months to fully translate the book. I think he even mentioned it one time that it's not as practical as it seems.

More than a dictionary, I'd imagine he had the grammar and such in there as well. It may not be quite as proactive as actually knowing how to speak a language, but it's still a big upgrade from not knowing it at all. It does have its limitations though.

33 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Martial arts are different. Good memory won't make you a fearsome warrior. You can learn correct stances and strikes from a book, but that would only help you train, and won't make you a fighter. You need to physically train your body to develop correct habits and muscle memory (which isn't memory). Plus a book is not that good medium for martial art learning, it can only show you a part of correct position, not the whole movement, because of that you can learn bad things, bad positions, bad stances and moves, reinforce it and be at a disadvantage when you meet a real martial artist.

It doesn't have to necessarily be a book though. F-Copper can store visual memories as well, and auditory ones too. watching a martial arts demonstration and filing that away so it doesn't decay until you can practice/recreate it, plus instructions or tips an actual martial artist could give you, is a much better alternative, for example. My point here wasn't to establish that all Archivists are martial artists in the making, it was to just show how versatile and useful an ability F-Copper is/can be, and how lackluster F-Electrum is by comparison, since Copper is generally seen as one of the weakest metals.

[alder24]

2 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

It doesn't have to necessarily be a book though. F-Copper can store visual memories as well, and auditory ones too. watching a martial arts demonstration and filing that away so it doesn't decay until you can practice/recreate it, plus instructions or tips an actual martial artist could give you, is a much better alternative, for example. My point here wasn't to establish that all Archivists are martial artists in the making, it was to just show how versatile and useful an ability F-Copper is/can be, and how lackluster F-Electrum is by comparison, since Copper is generally seen as one of the weakest metals.

Yes, visual memory will help more. But here is a problem, Sazed noted how hard it is to store visual memories, as they fade and change very quickly. Sazed had also in the Terris a copy of unused Keeper's copperminds, with all knowledge of Keepers, just so they can't be changed by him constantly tapping and storing back memories, Doing that makes memories fade and change. Those additional pair of copperminds were said to be used by him in case he had to recite the knowledge of Keepers to a new Keeper. Storing visual memories of fights would be very short-lived help, quickly fading and changing beyond its usefulness. Not something you can learn from.

I agree, F-copper is very useful, I personally like it a lot, but it has big limitations.

[Koloss17 She/They]

I’m almost tempted to hold of on today’s combo, as this conversation is the most active this thread has been in a bit!

 

But perhaps I could fudge the rules a little bit…

Random* Twinborn Combo Day 11:

A-Brass and F-Copper

 

So today I may have fudged the randomness a tad, in keeping with the current thread tangent. The Allomantic metal is completely random, but I made the Feruchemantic metal copper. Anyway, here we go.

 

Allomantic Brass, as previously established, is not that shabby of an Allomantic metal. Giving subtle manipulations of someone’s mind can definitely be useful, and if you are less subtle with it, it could even be nice in a fight. It’s not the most deadly of metals, but it gets the job done, and is quite versatile.

F-Copper is the more ambiguous one. With it, you can store events or facts away, allowing immediate recall of them in times of need, but with the disadvantage of losing those memories until you take them out of the coppermind. Once you have the memory though, it degrades just like any other. Quite the interesting dilemma, if you ask me.
 

That is certainly useful, but the real controversy comes from if you can actually get more than just memories and facts from it. Theoretically, if you spent hours watching Chess games and reading up on strategy, could you tap that in the moment to become an accomplished Chess player, without ever playing a game beforehand?

And, putting it in a more Brass relevant scenario, could studying politics without experience make you good at smooth talking a political rival?

My guess is that it could help a preexisting skill, but even with perfect memory, nothing can quite make up for having physical experience with a skill.

 

Having both A-Brass and F-Copper could be quite the combo, as it would allow you to conjure up memories of whoever you are talking to (so long as you went digging beforehand), and know exactly where to soothe to get the effect you desire. I’m sure most soothers would kill for something like that.

Resonance: Well, Allomantic Brass almost taps into the mind of others, and F-Copper basically taps into your own mind. So…perhaps something like an increased sense of self awareness, or the ability to read the room?

Name: Informant or Secretkeeper

Rating: basically a super soother, so pretty nice. 8/10.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

2 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes, visual memory will help more. But here is a problem, Sazed noted how hard it is to store visual memories, as they fade and change very quickly. Sazed had also in the Terris a copy of unused Keeper's copperminds, with all knowledge of Keepers, just so they can't be changed by him constantly tapping and storing back memories, Doing that makes memories fade and change. Those additional pair of copperminds were said to be used by him in case he had to recite the knowledge of Keepers to a new Keeper. Storing visual memories of fights would be very short-lived help, quickly fading and changing beyond its usefulness. Not something you can learn from.

I agree, F-copper is very useful, I personally like it a lot, but it has big limitations.

We could go back and forth on how useful F-Copper would be to learn things that aren't strictly scholastic, but again, that isn't my main point. 

I do wonder though, being an Electrum Compounder (or just a regular Pinnacle) could potentially be very useful for someone diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. Store determination during mania, tap it during depression. Possible use for Electrum Medallions??

[Cinnamon]

8 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Secretkeeper

Hmmm this, having Keeper in it doesn’t sound right… what about a Suppressor or Manipulist, or Mindworm … hmm, still doesn’t sound right. Informant is great though it may work better with another combo. I’ll get back to you if I think of anything better.

I’m really loving this thread by the way! Awesome job Koloss17!

Edited May 1, 2023 by Cinnamon