Random Twinborn Combos: Go!

[Koloss17 She/They]

Random Twinborn Combo Day 33:

A-Aluminum and F-Pewter

I think I talked about these two in enough depth in previous combos, so this is just the two of them combined. 
 

Resonance: Perhaps an easier time building muscle mass? 
 

Name: Strongsoul? I’m not wild about this one honestly.

Rating: 4/10. Depending on how good the resonance is, it could be better than just a Brute Ferring, but it doesn’t really feel Twinborn-ish

And how about another one, as I missed yesterday’s post?

Random Twinborn Combo day 33.5:

A-Atium and F-Bendalloy

So, these two don’t seem to be that synergistic at all, one is pretty much exclusively combat focused, and one is pretty much exclusively casual life focused. I am not seeing a lot that can be done with them.

Resonance: Not A Clue, honestly.

Name: Not much here either

Rating: 3/10. An underwhelming ability paired with a really hard to get metal. Not great, not great.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Koloss17

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

On 22/05/2023 at 2:20 PM, alder24 said:

I think with identity you would be able to change the center of iron pull on your body, which is still possible without it, but F-aluminum would make it easier. Other than that I have no idea what that Twinborn could do.

SA spoilers WoB:

  Hide contents

The Forumlurker (paraphrased)

Can a Windrunner use a Basic Lashing on a specific body part?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, but it works the same way a Steelpusher could push on a specific part of metal. Usually, you'd just affect the whole body, because of its Identity and cosmere magic not working as well on parts of something that considers itself a unit. When you're very skilled, you can isolate a hand, like Kelsier could push on specific sections of metal.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

 

You're misunderstanding that WoB. The Lurcher can change what part of the object they can pull on, not what part of their body the object is attracted to. We see Wax do this with Steelpushing all the time, where he pushes only on a specific part of, say, a bullet (like when he was fighting Forch).

If it was possible though, being a Lurcher would become infinitely more useful. You could control what direction things went a lot more than just having them get yanked towards your chest.

[alder24]

52 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

You're misunderstanding that WoB. The Lurcher can change what part of the object they can pull on, not what part of their body the object is attracted to. We see Wax do this with Steelpushing all the time, where he pushes only on a specific part of, say, a bullet (like when he was fighting Forch).

If it was possible though, being a Lurcher would become infinitely more useful. You could control what direction things went a lot more than just having them get yanked towards your chest.

No, I'm not. The WoB said Identity is the problem. It partially prevents them from changing from where steel lines are coming from - they come from the "center of self". Change identity, you're changing your "self", perception matters, you can change where steel lines are coming from.

Spoiler

Questioner

I have a theory. Because the center of gravity for a female is naturally lower, but when Vin burns iron or steel, the blue lines come from her chest, does that come from her center of self, rather than the center of gravity?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. That's probably a more accurate way to put it. 

Questioner

Would it be possible for that to change, then? 

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that is possible. I should say it like that, because it's not going to actually be... Because center of gravity, where you would actually put it, is not where I'm having those lines come from. You came in costume. You can just make that canon now and we will put that on all of the lists that that is what it is.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by alder24

[cometaryorbit]

I think Marsh can Push an object between his hands, too. It's possible, but I think it'd be even harder than Pushing on separate parts of a metal bar to spin it (which Kelsier can do, but the average Coinshot or Mistborn can't).

[Jn819 she/her]

4 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I think Marsh can Push an object between his hands, too. It's possible, but I think it'd be even harder than Pushing on separate parts of a metal bar to spin it (which Kelsier can do, but the average Coinshot or Mistborn can't).

That is a great scene (in TLM I think?) and also a great corroboration of this hypothesis. I'm sorry I'm already out of Reputation to give today, I'll try to remember to come back and upvote this tomorrow lol.

[Isilel]

Late to the party, but I love this thread and want to add a couple of observations on previously discussed metals:

F-Iron was underrated, IMHO. There are a lot of cool things that a skilled practitioner could do with it. First of all yes, big jumps and parcours over the rooftops - push off normally and store mass once airborn.  Ditto running - you won't be Flash, but if every step becomes,  say, 2-3 times longer, the speed will increase accordingly. Ditto bicycles - via constant mass manipulation riding them could become very speedy, with just normal physical effort. But there is more - if an Iron Ferring wears a wingsuit while 100% storing, they should be able to glide like Batman. They could also use a hang glider to freely fly around.

A-Chromium - in chapter 27 of TLM, in the broadsheet story, Nicki said that she was able to leech her opponent by touching her with metal knuckles. If this is not a mistake, then Leechers may be able to extend their reach via metal implements. Maybe something like a taser? Depending on a given Twinborn's feruchemical talent, they could also make such equipment resistant to pushes and pulls by storing in them. 

[Jn819 she/her]

10 hours ago, Isilel said:

Late to the party, but I love this thread and want to add a couple of observations on previously discussed metals:

F-Iron was underrated, IMHO. There are a lot of cool things that a skilled practitioner could do with it. First of all yes, big jumps and parcours over the rooftops - push off normally and store mass once airborn.  Ditto running - you won't be Flash, but if every step becomes,  say, 2-3 times longer, the speed will increase accordingly. Ditto bicycles - via constant mass manipulation riding them could become very speedy, with just normal physical effort. But there is more - if an Iron Ferring wears a wingsuit while 100% storing, they should be able to glide like Batman. They could also use a hang glider to freely fly around.

A-Chromium - in chapter 27 of TLM, in the broadsheet story, Nicki said that she was able to leech her opponent by touching her with metal knuckles. If this is not a mistake, then Leechers may be able to extend their reach via metal implements. Maybe something like a taser? Depending on a given Twinborn's feruchemical talent, they could also make such equipment resistant to pushes and pulls by storing in them. 

If you like F-Iron, you will probably like Shadow of the Conqueror by Shad Brooks (of Shadiversity on YouTube). It has a similar ability that's much more thoroughly utilized.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:09 PM, alder24 said:

No, I'm not. The WoB said Identity is the problem. It partially prevents them from changing from where steel lines are coming from - they come from the "center of self". Change identity, you're changing your "self", perception matters, you can change where steel lines are coming from.

The WoB said that the object's identity is what makes the line point at the center, as the object is often thought of as a single entity rather than it's components put together, and that a seasoned Coinshot or Lurcher could overrule that. The bit about the hand at the end is about (SA)

Spoiler

a Windrunner lashing something at a specific body part as opposed to the person in general.

As for Marsh crushing the gun, shouldn't he be able to crush it with the regular 'Pull the far end, Push the close end' from his chest? As long as the points he's Pulling to/Pushing from overlap, the gun should get crushed, regardless of where he's manipulating it from.

[alder24]

18 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

The WoB said that the object's identity is what makes the line point at the center, as the object is often thought of as a single entity rather than it's components put together, and that a seasoned Coinshot or Lurcher could overrule that. The bit about the hand at the end is about (SA)

I'm not using the WoB as a direct confirmation, I'm using it to provide a source for my logical leap, because of this I think that works in that way. Ignore the hand part.

Spoiler

The Forumlurker (paraphrased)

Can a Windrunner use a Basic Lashing on a specific body part?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, but it works the same way a Steelpusher could push on a specific part of metal. Usually, you'd just affect the whole body, because of its Identity and cosmere magic not working as well on parts of something that considers itself a unit. When you're very skilled, you can isolate a hand, like Kelsier could push on specific sections of metal.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

"Cosmere magic in general not working well on something that identifies itself as a unit." -  That's the important part. That's why I think a lurcher/coinshot can change from where the lines are coming. Identity and self-perception will be very important here. As the lines are coming from a "center of self" - if you can change your identity, or change your view on where that "center of self" lies, you can change where lines are coming from. Or start perceiving your soul and body as a collection of multiple different parts and souls working together. Perception works both ways.

25 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

As for Marsh crushing the gun, shouldn't he be able to crush it with the regular 'Pull the far end, Push the close end' from his chest? As long as the points he's Pulling to/Pushing from overlap, the gun should get crushed, regardless of where he's manipulating it from.

He could do it. The text specifically said that he hovered it between his hands. He doesn't need to extend his hands for pushes and pulls. This gives me the impression that he was doing it from his hand, as otherwise why would he extend them and hover the gun between them? TLM ch 28

Quote

Wax gestured into the room with the others, and Death walked past the stunned constables, though one—bearing the shoulder patch of a Seeker—managed to pull out a gun. Not a move Wax would have advised. All Death did was wave absently and Pull the gun across the room to catch it. Then, making it hover between his hands—an incredible feat, the difficulty of which few non-Allomancers would grasp—he flexed. And the gun’s barrel crunched.

Wax froze. Hell. He’d never seen someone do that with their powers before. How would you even accomplish it?

Push on the near end, Pull on the far end, he thought. But damn, the power involved ...

 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I'm not using the WoB as a direct confirmation, I'm using it to provide a source for my logical leap, because of this I think that works in that way. Ignore the hand part.

Ohhhhh, okay.

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

"Cosmere magic in general not working well on something that identifies itself as a unit." -  That's the important part. That's why I think a lurcher/coinshot can change from where the lines are coming. Identity and self-perception will be very important here. As the lines are coming from a "center of self" - if you can change your identity, or change your view on where that "center of self" lies, you can change where lines are coming from. Or start perceiving your soul and body as a collection of multiple different parts and souls working together. Perception works both ways.

That makes sense.

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

He could do it. The text specifically said that he hovered it between his hands. He doesn't need to extend his hands for pushes and pulls. This gives me the impression that he was doing it from his hand, as otherwise why would he extend them and hover the gun between them? TLM ch 28

Looking at the quote, the fact that it's levitating in his hand is kind of a dead giveaway. I guess it is possible. Of course Marsh would be the one to be able to do it, being the only Inquisitor left.

[Koloss17 She/They]

Random Twinborn Combo Day 34: 

A-Bendalloy and F-Nicrosil

Honestly, we don’t really know how F-Nicrosil works. From what I understand, it works more like a Coppermind than a zincmind, meaning that you can never really get more investiture than you had before without compounding. However, it is crucial to making unsealed metalminds, so there’s that.

For those unaware, F-Nicrosil stores innate investiture, and not kinetic investiture. So it stores the ability to burn a metal, not the effect of the burnt metal. It’s a weird metal with a lot of theoretical potential, but it is (as far as I know) kind of useless on its own.

But because it is such a black hole to me nowadays, I can’t really give this combo a resonance or name.

Rating: As I understand it, this is basically a slider but with extra weirdness. 3/10, as it ain’t really much of a twinborn.

 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

Honestly, we don’t really know how F-Nicrosil works. From what I understand, it works more like a Coppermind than a zincmind, meaning that you can never really get more investiture than you had before without compounding. However, it is crucial to making unsealed metalminds, so there’s that.

That's medallion nicrosil, which is different from normal. Bands were going low on attributes stored there, Wax noticed that. Medallions don't do that. So I think the most likely scenario is that F-nicrosil works like other metals, like zinc.

Spoiler

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? 

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

 

I think this can be interesting, as you can store your A-bendalloy a lot, and then tap it to grant yourself stronger Allomancy, bubbles with more compressed time. Which can make you something on a smaller scale of what Wayne did. If it works like other metalminds not like copperminds.

I wonder if you could store medallion granted abilities in your nicrosilminds? In that way you could slowly collect new powers.

[Spearguy]

5 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

But because it is such a black hole to me nowadays, I can’t really give this combo a resonance or name.

Listen if you need a break from this take a break, there is enough here to keep going off of that things will be fine. If you really don't feel like doing this any more than stop, and anyone who get's on your case about it isn't worth paying attention to.

you don't even have to completely stop with this, just post whenever you feel like it rather then on a strict schedule, even the most fun tasks can eventually begin to feel like work.

[Koloss17 She/They]

2 minutes ago, Spearguy said:

Listen if you need a break from this take a break, there is enough here to keep going off of that things will be fine. If you really don't feel like doing this any more than stop, and anyone who get's on your case about it isn't worth paying attention to.

you don't even have to completely stop with this, just post whenever you feel like it rather then on a strict schedule, even the most fun tasks can eventually begin to feel like work.

Don’t you worry. I’ll stop when I need to stop. Right now I can chug a tad more, but recently I’ve been rolling a few that are really weird (Anything with A-aluminum or A-Duralumin and F-Nicrosil or F-Aluminum are going to do that). It makes it tough to theorize about, given that they’re really only half Twinborn until we truly figure out those four, which probably needs some Brando assistance.

But I appreciate the concern!

[Walter The Moral]

18 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Rating: As I understand it, this is basically a slider but with extra weirdness. 3/10, as it ain’t really much of a twinborn.

 

It took me until now to realise that the ratings are for how good the combination is, not how good having both powers would be.

[Koloss17 She/They]

4 hours ago, Walter The Moral said:

It took me until now to realise that the ratings are for how good the combination is, not how good having both powers would be.

Yeah, my take is that the most valuable part of a twinborn combo is the Twinborn aspect of it. If you just have two powers that just operate independently, it’s a lot less fun.

[Koloss17 She/They]

Random Twinborn Combo Day 35:

A-Tin and F-Chromium

Hey!! It’s a combination where both parts are useful!

So previously, I said that the batter you store at managing fortune, the better your other ability would be. For this combination, I’m not too sure. Perhaps you could more easily instinctually burn tin at the right times, but that’s about it.

However, I still think this combo is pretty cool. While storing Fortune, one could totally burn tin to compensate a tad. I also think the mixture of getting more information and just being lucky could be really nice.

Resonance: Honestly, I don’t have one. This feels like something that you could come up with a resonance for though!

Name: Again, my brain is currently empty of ideas, but perhaps others’ are not?

Rating: 7/10; good, nothing crazy, but there’s certainly merit to it.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Koloss17

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Random Twinborn Combo Day 35:

A-Tin and F-Chromium

Hey!! It’s a combination where both parts are useful!

So previously, I said that the batter you store at managing fortune, the better your other ability would be. For this combination, I’m not too sure. Perhaps you could more easily instinctually burn tin at the right times, but that’s about it.

However, I still think this combo is pretty cool. While storing Fortune, one could totally burn tin to compensate a tad. I also think the mixture of getting more information and just being lucky could be really nice.

Resonance: Honestly, I don’t have one. This feels like something that you could come up with a resonance for though!

Name: Again, my brain is currently empty of ideas, but perhaps others’ are not?

Rating: 7/10; good, nothing crazy, but there’s certainly merit to it.

That's interesting. Combine this with tin savantism and you can get real Atium-like effects. You could avoid blades even better than Spook did.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

13 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

While storing Fortune, one could totally burn tin to compensate a tad.

Compensate how exactly? I dont get what you mean.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

That's interesting. Combine this with tin savantism and you can get real Atium-like effects. You could avoid blades even better than Spook did.

Bootleg Atium.

As for a name, Luckeye? Informant? Once again, a suspiciously reconnaissance-adequate Twinborn.

Resonance could totally be incredible reflexes though.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[Isilel]

25 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

 Once again, a suspiciously reconnaissance-adequate Twinborn.

Also a deadly sharpshooter/sniper and somebody who can easily operate in total darkness. Combat potential of Tin Metalborn in the era of firearms tends to be underrated. This combo would also be less susceptible to the usual anti-Tineye countermeasures, as they would intuitively know when to stop burning whilst tapping Fortune.

25 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Resonance could totally be incredible reflexes though.

Indeed. Or maybe being very good at finding things?

[Koloss17 She/They]

38 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Compensate how exactly? I dont get what you mean.

Bootleg Atium.

As for a name, Luckeye? Informant? Once again, a suspiciously reconnaissance-adequate Twinborn.

Resonance could totally be incredible reflexes though.

Basically being unlucky would mean being more likely to run into bad people, getting into unfortunate situations, or running into more potholes than you really should. Tapping luck gets you in the right place at the right time, and so storing would be being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

While tapping A-tin, you are more aware, more capable of noticing the unfortunate things before they happen. Ergo, compensating.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

1 minute ago, Koloss17 said:

Basically being unlucky would mean being more likely to run into bad people, getting into unfortunate situations, or running into more potholes than you really should. Tapping luck gets you in the right place at the right time, and so storing would be being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

While tapping A-tin, you are more aware, more capable of noticing the unfortunate things before they happen. Ergo, compensating.

Makes sense, but I dont think that's entirely how F-Chromium works. Tapping Fortune makes you have a 'gut instinct' sort of feeling of when and where to be and do things to achieve what you want. Storing, then, should make you more likely to make bad decisions, or something like decision fatigue, where you have a hard time making decisions at all. It won't make you unlucky the way you're saying, and A-Tin might exacerbate the issue. If you hear thugs in an alley while storing, you may decide that it's a good day to test your combat skills, or if you see two alleys, decide that one of them will make a better shortcut, only for that one to have robbers in it. It's not exactly how you're describing. It's a semantic difference, I know, but Im being nitpicky today. There's a difference between getting struck by lightning and thinking it's a good idea to walk up to a lightning rod in the middle of a thunderstorm.

[cometaryorbit]

21 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Random Twinborn Combo Day 35:

A-Tin and F-Chromium

Hey!! It’s a combination where both parts are useful!

[...]

Name: Again, my brain is currently empty of ideas, but perhaps others’ are not?

Yay! I didn't have much to say about the previous combinations, but this is a good one.

What about Destineye for a name?

7 hours ago, Isilel said:

Also a deadly sharpshooter/sniper and somebody who can easily operate in total darkness. Combat potential of Tin Metalborn in the era of firearms tends to be underrated. This combo would also be less susceptible to the usual anti-Tineye countermeasures, as they would intuitively know when to stop burning whilst tapping Fortune.

Good points! This combo could be really deadly with a rifle, yeah.

8 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Resonance could totally be incredible reflexes though.

I like this idea!

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:32 PM, Koloss17 said:

That said, A-Atium is really interesting. It taps into the Spiritual Realm to give the user access to fortune, allowing them to see the immediate future, for a small amount of time. And, because it is very nice, it also gives an increase in mental speed, allowing the burner to make use of this overwhelming power that they hold. So for me, which Alder vehemently rejects, A-Atium is broken into three parts: the Fortune, the mental speed, and the extra sense allowing you to make use of the Fortune.

Conveniently enough, these are all things that can be reverse-compounded in some capacity. For this combo, we’ll be sticking to the mental speed.

So using A-Atium, one can store extra mental speed, leaving a very difficult to manage god state at the cost of eventually becoming an F-Zinc savant.

Conversely, one could just tap mental speed while burning Atium, leading to Super God Mode. Both are viable options.

You know, I don't think that A-Atium does provide access to increased speed of thought- F-zinc is like bullet-time thought processing, but without anything else. A-Atium seems to grant one a sizable increase to one's kinesthetic intelligence by giving an instinctive knowledge of where their A-Shadows are, where they will go, and how to follow them.

With that being the case, I don't think you could use F-zinc to store A-Atium's mental enhancements unless you could tweak the Metalminds a bit (basically like trying to store A-pewter's enhancement in a Pewtermind- which we don't know if possible). You might be able to store some extra Fortune with F-chromium while burning Atium though, as they seem more directly compatible (instinctive ability to follow the Aitum Shadows).

As for tapping F-zinc while burning A-Atium, I think you could use it to plan a line of attack, to assess your surroundings, or to help get an edge on another Atium burner (as Atium cancels Atium), but in general I think that F-zinc wouldn't be that synergetic with A-Atium- Atium gives you an instinctive ability to react to your A-Shadows, making F-zinc's ability to assess the battlefield redundant. You could get some nice benefits from F-zinc on its own, but the two don't really help each other directly (at least in battle), I would think.

[Koloss17 She/They]

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yay! I didn't have much to say about the previous combinations, but this is a good one.

What about Destineye for a name?

Good points! This combo could be really deadly with a rifle, yeah.

I like this idea!

Destineye is the best name someone could think of!

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Compensate how exactly? I dont get what you mean.

Bootleg Atium.

As for a name, Luckeye? Informant? Once again, a suspiciously reconnaissance-adequate Twinborn.

Resonance could totally be incredible reflexes though.

And I like the idea of reflexes!

We gots ourselves a cohesive Twinborn!