Random Twinborn Combos: Go!

[cometaryorbit]

4 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

You know, I don't think that A-Atium does provide access to increased speed of thought- F-zinc is like bullet-time thought processing, but without anything else. A-Atium seems to grant one a sizable increase to one's kinesthetic intelligence by giving an instinctive knowledge of where their A-Shadows are, where they will go, and how to follow them.

With that being the case, I don't think you could use F-zinc to store A-Atium's mental enhancements unless you could tweak the Metalminds a bit (basically like trying to store A-pewter's enhancement in a Pewtermind- which we don't know if possible). You might be able to store some extra Fortune with F-chromium while burning Atium though, as they seem more directly compatible (instinctive ability to follow the Aitum Shadows).

In general, I agree with you. A-Atium might improve mental speed in the f-Zinc sense, but it might well be a non-overlapping kind of mental improvement; f-Zinc is strictly speed of thought, not mental capacity more generally.

However, A-pewter strength does store in F-pewter metalminds:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Allomantic pewter strength can be stored in a metalmind, but it's probably easier to just Compound. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/246/#e5503

I think it's probably just strength though, not the other benefits of A-pewter (agility, speed, harder to break bones/resisting wounds/healing, resistance to temperature and intoxication, etc). You could presumably store the extra health in a goldmind and the extra speed in a steelmind.

2 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Destineye is the best name someone could think of!

And I like the idea of reflexes!

We gots ourselves a cohesive Twinborn!

Thank you! Yay!

Edited May 29, 2023 by cometaryorbit
formatting/punctuation

[Trusk'our he/him]

19 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

However, A-pewter strength does store in F-pewter metalminds:

Well, it may be that the Feruchemist could store more strength safely, since their muscles are strengthened, meaning that less muscle mass is needed to keep them around and kicking while actively storing- but if the WoB does mean that F-pewter can store the magical boost to muscle strength rather than just making it easier to store muscle mass, it could make a double-pewter Twinborn much more powerful.

21 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I think it's probably just strength though, not the other benefits of A-pewter (agility, speed, harder to break bones/resisting wounds/healing, resistance to temperature and intoxication, etc). You could presumably store the extra health in a goldmind and the extra speed in a steelmind.

Yeah, A-pewter has a bunch of qualities that could be stored Feruchemically; there's a speed boost that can be stored (F-steel), a health boost (F-gold), you can stay awake longer (F-bronze), you can shrug off the effects of extreme temperature more easily (making F-brass somewhat easier to store), and the balance/dexterity increase of A-pewter could probably be stored too (F-tin, @Koloss17 ). And of course, there's strength, which at the very least would allow the Feruchemist to store more muscle mass at a given time without suffering ill-consequences.

Basically, A-pewter is a great way to boost many Feruchemical powers without Compounding.

[cometaryorbit]

34 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Basically, A-pewter is a great way to boost many Feruchemical powers without Compounding.

Yeah. And it's also by itself one of the better powers - and quite broad, despite the term "Thug" it's useful for much more than brawling.

[Koloss17 She/They]

Random Twinborn Combo Day 36:

A-Bronze and F-Nicrosil

Again, we don’t really know much about F-Nicrosil, but maybe it gives temporary metallic strength? Not sure. If it does, this combo could pierce copperclouds, which is something. 
 

But we don’t know for sure! 
 

Anyway, potentially interesting combo, but we don’t really know.

Cant really determine name or resonance without knowing what half of the combo does, so yeh.

7/10 if it works the way @alder24 thinks it might, 6/10 if it doesn’t.

[Unnamed Twinborn he/him]

A-pewter is my favorite A-metal. And yes F-tin is my favorite F-metal. 

9 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Again, we don’t really know much about F-Nicrosil, but maybe it gives temporary metallic strength? Not sure. If it does, this combo could pierce copperclouds, which is something. 

I don't think it works this way, doesn't it work like a coppermind? 

Also, Hi. I'm new. This is my first post. 

[Treamayne]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Twinborn said:

I don't think it works this way, doesn't it work like a coppermind? 

Welcome to the forums. Let us know if you have questions (especially about the interface - quotes, multi-quotes, spoilers etc.)

Anyway, this should be the WoB you were referencing:

Spoiler

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

But, since that is about the Medallion fabrials, it may (or may not) hold true for normal Nicrosil Feruchemy.

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Unnamed Twinborn said:

I don't think it works this way, doesn't it work like a coppermind? 

Adding more, Nicrosil is more restrictive in medallions than what Feruchemist have. It was also noted by Wax that attributes in the Bands are running low and compounding is needed (not sure if that was just about the nicrosil portion or everything).

Spoiler

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? 

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

That's why I think it's most likely that Feruchemical Nicrosil works just like other metals - you store Allomancy for 1h, and you can tap it for one 1h to be twice as strong in Allomancy. This is also supported by the fact that there is a way to fuel Allomancy with Feruchemy making Allomancy more powerful, a kind of "reverse compounding", which might be just F-nicrosil. If normal Feruchemical nicrosil would work just like coppermind, it wouldn't allow to gain Allomantic power from Feruchemy or compounding. 

Spoiler

Kaymyth (paraphrased)

I asked him about what the board refers to as "reverse" compounding - i.e., using Feruchemy to enhance Allomancy, rather than the other way around. I wanted to make sure that it was really a thing that exists.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said that it was.

Kaymyth (paraphrased)

Is this what the Southern Scadrians have been doing?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's similar, but not exactly the same.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Chaos (paraphrased)

I continued to ask about the Lord Ruler and his Allomantic strength.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There's an upper bound to the amount of power you can get from being a savant. Brandon said that, obviously, the Lord Ruler wasn't using duralumin and Elend could only get that powerful in Soothing using duralumin. He implied that there was a way to Compound to enhance Allomancy.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

 

Spoiler

dyring

A Coinshot able to store weight can, as you showed us with Wax Push in a ridiculously powerful manner, as the weight/mass is the largest factor which controls the Push strength.

I'm wondering if the same can be done with soothing(or rioting). If you where to increase your identity, that may/should increase your emotional imprint(or whatever you might call it), would your soothings/riotings become vastly more powerful in a similar way as weight makes steelpushing more powerful?

And if it does, is this how the Lord Ruler improved his Soothing in such a spectacular fashion?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, the Lord Ruler--don't forget--could compound any Allomancy he wanted. That creates some crazy effects. As for what you discuss in your first question, I don't want to touch too much on Identity yet as I am saving it for later books. Talking too much here might undermine my ability to reveal interesting and cool things in books when the time is right. I like your theory, and it has merit, but I'm not going to give you a yes or a no as it delves too much into what Identity, as an attribute, can do.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

 

[Isilel]

I'd really like to see skilled and nuanced use of A-bronze in Era 3. Seekers being able to detect Feruchemy in active use in TLM was already a new wrinkle. I imagine that that will also apply to medallions and allomantic grenades, in that they'd be able to distinguish them from natural Feruchemy, maybe even different models of them. Metal Arts via Hemalurgy should also be identifyable, shouldn't they? Surely it should affect the rythms, even if slightly. And why stop there - it should be possible to tell apart natural active users by the strength of their powers too. So, a lot could be done with it, but for a pretty narrow purpose of policing the use of Metallic Arts by other people  or tracking somebody. Ditto with other invested arts on other words.

However, here is where it gets interesting. A-Bronze is supposed to only detect kinetic investiture, but Vin and Alendi (who was a Seeker according to a WoB), heard the rythms of the Well. So, it seems that under certain conditions they can overcome this limitation. And of course, if Nicrosil feruchemy can be used to strengthen allomancy, it would be exactly the tool for that, in addition to punching through copper clouds. Which might help Seekers to do more in the future of cosmere, re-writing investitures into each other and such. TLM hinted at these possibilities.

[cometaryorbit]

Vin also heard the presence of Ruin as allomantic pulses whose metal she couldn't distinguish. There are WoBs that Seekers detect Kinetic Investiture, though, so I don't know if there's an exception for Shardic or near-Shardic levels of static Investiture or if the Well and Ruin's presence were partially Kinetic.

Nicrosil Ferrings are called Soulbearers, so what about Soulear for this combo? (or Soulhearer as a pun?)

Edited May 31, 2023 by cometaryorbit

[therunner he/him]

13 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Vin also heard the presence of Ruin as allomantic pulses whose metal she couldn't distinguish. There are WoBs that Seekers detect Kinetic Investiture, though, so I don't know if there's an exception for Shardic or near-Shardic levels of static Investiture or if the Well and Ruin's presence were partially Kinetic.

Based on Secret History, Well was also perpendicularity, and we know that Stormlight can be heard once it is doing something.
So perhaps holding perpendicularity open counts as 'work' so the Investiture in well is Kinetic.

Edited May 31, 2023 by therunner

[alder24]

1 hour ago, therunner said:

Based on Secret History, Well was also perpendicularity, and we know that Stormlight can be heard once it is doing something.
So perhaps holding perpendicularity open counts as 'work' so the Investiture in well is Kinetic.

If that would be the case then you wouldn't be able to use it to fuel Allomancy, as it already is doing a different work.

Large amounts of static investiture, like very large, as large as the Well of Ascension (it should be larger than normal perpendicularity), might just emit a strong enough pulse to be hearable. But only Vin, with double bronze, could hear it. And she did breath in Mist when she was little, which might have attuned her to that tone.

Or that was because Preservation and Ruin's tone were just written into the Scadrial, but because both of their minds were focused in the Well, the pulses were coming from that, except from a few cases where they were creating Mistspirits.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

38 minutes ago, alder24 said:

If that would be the case then you wouldn't be able to use it to fuel Allomancy, as it already is doing a different work.

Large amounts of static investiture, like very large, as large as the Well of Ascension (it should be larger than normal perpendicularity), might just emit a strong enough pulse to be hearable. But only Vin, with double bronze, could hear it. And she did breath in Mist when she was little, which might have attuned her to that tone.

They shouldn't be pulsing at all if they're just sitting there. Could Preservation have set it up specifically to pulse in a "Hearable" way, despite its static nature? Also, Alendi, who was a Seeker, was able to hear the Well, and presumably, so could any of the people who had used the Well before him, who were presumably also Seekers. Were the people who were born with the seeds for Allomancy just really powerful back then? I can't see that being the case, but how else to explain it? Alendi was said to have donned the "Piercings of the Hero" (which Brandon said were a fabrication by Ruin to let him manipulate Alendi further), how likely would it have been that one (or many) of them were Hemalurgic spikes granting A-Bronze? Allomancy was barely known and wasn't understood back then, so what are the odds that Alendi had either figured Bronze out and was actively burning it to be able to always hear the Well pounding, or just had enough trace amounts of it in him to subconsciously burn constantly, plus the discovery of enough other Seekers by Ruin to spike their Allomancy out? I think that once the Well was full for a while, the pulsing got strong enough that any Seeker could hear it (though it wouldn't have reached that point before Vin uses it in WoA, since no other Seeker can sense it during her time), or maybe it's just misinterpreted and anyone Connected enough to Preservation could hear it.

38 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Or that was because Preservation and Ruin's tone were just written into the Scadrial, but because both of their minds were focused in the Well, the pulses were coming from that, except from a few cases where they were creating Mistspirits.

That's honestly a good idea, but I don't think Ruin's mind was concentrated there. He describes his imprisonment as one of impotence, where anything he tried to do was automatically resisted by Preservation's Investiture, so maybe he was free to move around and view different things, just not affect anything except in minute ways. Then again, the pulses of Ruin's Investiture seemed to have stemmed from the well in SH, but that might just be Kelsier feeling the pulses coming from the SR, since he was in a Perpendicularity, and the SR is where Ruin's mind would truly be, hence where the commands carried by the pulses were coming from, and not the physical location of the Well. Maybe, since Preservation used up his mind to create the Well, which we know was the focal point for Ruin's prison, that alone was enough to cause the pulsing, like you said. Doesn't explain how/why some people can hear it, but it does explain the origin quite soundly.

[Koloss17 She/They]

Random Twinborn Combo Day 37:

A-Copper and F-Aluminum

Well isn’t this an interesting combo. A support metal with a we-don’t-know-what Feruchemical metal (Honestly, Feruchemical sounds ridiculous and rolls way worse off the tongue than Feruchemantic IMO).

Could there be something interesting here? Certainly! …if we can figure out how the heck storing identity would work. We sorta know how other things can interact with it, but there ain’t much for what it really does. What would having less or more Identity even do? I have lovely theories on how it would affect A-Gold, for example, but I really don’t know what it could do on its own.

Resonance: This would be a good one for the spike-holding resistance, honestly.

Name: Truesoul sounds good, but seems like a mixture of Trueself and Firesoul.

Rating: 6/10, but who knows! If Identity was less of a mystery to me, it might bump up that rating.

…I know I did this resonance idea before, but I can’t seem to easily find it in the thread. Please tell me this isn’t the first accidental repeat combo?

[cometaryorbit]

Truemind maybe? Copper is a mental metal, and that would combine the Identity aspect of aluminum with the mental resistance (anti-Soothing/Rioting) of copper.

[therunner he/him]

7 hours ago, alder24 said:

If that would be the case then you wouldn't be able to use it to fuel Allomancy, as it already is doing a different work.

But one ever use Well to fuel allomancy.
And regarding TLM, that one sort of 'broke the rules' even in-universe, and they started draining it before it opened.
It is feasible that removing the liquid (which you can do) makes it no longer kinetic, since it is no longer part of perpendicularity.

7 hours ago, alder24 said:

Large amounts of static investiture, like very large, as large as the Well of Ascension (it should be larger than normal perpendicularity), might just emit a strong enough pulse to be hearable. But only Vin, with double bronze, could hear it. And she did breath in Mist when she was little, which might have attuned her to that tone.

Feasible.
It is true that only Vin and Alendi heard it as far as we know, so it is possible that only 'the chosen' can hear it. There does not seem to be any mention that other Seekers at Alendi's time heard it.

[alder24]

13 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Also, Alendi, who was a Seeker, was able to hear the Well, and presumably, so could any of the people who had used the Well before him, who were presumably also Seekers. Were the people who were born with the seeds for Allomancy just really powerful back then? I can't see that being the case, but how else to explain it?

Alendi was also spiked, it's likely that just like in Vin's case, Ruin make sure to give him double bronze as well:

Spoiler

Vegasdev

Alendi's "Piercings of the Hero"?

Brandon Sanderson

This is part of the manipulation Ruin did during the classical era on Scadrial, before the coming of the Lord Ruler. Piercings, and Hemalurgy, were part of the world before the coming of Allomancy in its modern form. Then, they were seen as a means of communicating with deity—which, indeed, they were. Ruin manipulated this to make sure any Hero of Ages who came would be under his influence. The reference is included mostly to indicate that yes, Alendi was under Ruin's influence. He ignored Rashek, though. (At least, right up to the moment when everything went 'wrong' for Ruin, when Rashek killed his chosen Hero of Ages.)

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

13 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

plus the discovery of enough other Seekers by Ruin to spike their Allomancy out?

Very likely. Ruin spiked out bronze out of Vin's little sister. What were the chances that she was burning bronze? Slim, yet Ruin somehow knew it. At the times of Alendi Mists were snapping people into Misting, Alendi was one of them. Ruin just needed to spike one of many new Mistings and give that spike to Alendi - which could have happened just like with Spook, spiked during fighting. People didn't need to know there were Allomancers, they were burning metals etc, but Ruin would know that.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Also, as a note, Alendi was an Allomancer, as the epigraph notes here. He had to be—he heard the pulsing at the Well of Ascension when nobody else could. "Ah," you might say, "but I thought that you said Allomancy didn't exist before those beads." That isn't 100% true. The legends say that Allomancy came with the Deepness. Alendi was one of the very first Allomancers, and he gained his powers as the mists began to cover the world.

That's important.

Because, of course, he was Snapped by the mists, like is happening to people in this book.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Feb. 23, 2010)

 

13 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

or maybe it's just misinterpreted and anyone Connected enough to Preservation could hear it.

That's also very likely. 

Keep in mind, that wasn't just a perpendicularity, that was Preservation's mind, immense amount of power, keeping Ruin's mind imprisoned.

13 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That's honestly a good idea, but I don't think Ruin's mind was concentrated there.

He was, that's why Ruin's mist was there too. His mind was kept imprisoned there, able to only glimpse into PR on rhythms sent out by the Well.

Spoiler

Vegasdev

The other lake in Alendi's bumps?

Brandon Sanderson

A manifestation of Ruin's gathered consciousness, much like the dark mists in book two. The lake was still around in Vin's era, but had been moved under ground. (Note that the Well is a very similar manifestation. You've also seen one other manifestation like this....)

[...]

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Fifty-Five

Elend Sees the Mist Spirit

Elend really does have a lot of faith in Vin, even if he doesn't worship her. He ascribes an almost supernatural power to her. And, I can kind of see why he would. In these books, Vin's almost less of a character and more a force. Like Ruin and Preservation, in a way.

Regardless, this chapter is about Elend giving up—then finding his hope again. I bring the mist spirit back here for a final appearance, but I wanted to be careful not to have it give too much information to Elend. Not because I don't want the information itself to get out, but because the mist spirit hasn't been a presence in this book, and so I haven't foreshadowed it enough. Therefore, if it simply showed up and gave a bunch of answers, I think that would feel cheap to the reader.

The mist spirit is, as the next epigraph explains, the remnants of Preservation's mind. I don't delve into it too much in this book, even the epigraphs, but Preservation's consciousness is indeed separate from his power. However, his consciousness itself has a limited power. And that is what he used to bind Ruin.

That did not weaken his power, which still protects the world. Instead, it cost him his mind, leaving behind only a faint shadow—like the mists' memory of Preservation, far removed from what he had once been.

That consciousness attached to Preservation—like the one attached to Ruin—is a part of Adonalsium, which will eventually be explained. Suffice it to say that in a pinch, Preservation could draw upon the power of his own mind and use it to imprison Ruin. This was why he was able to pull of the trick, as Ruin wasn't expecting it. He might have anticipated an attack using Preservation's power, but not his mind—not knowing what burning his own mind would do.

That is why Preservation's cage captured Ruin's own mind, but not his power.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Jan. 19, 2010)

 

7 hours ago, therunner said:

It is true that only Vin and Alendi heard it as far as we know, so it is possible that only 'the chosen' can hear it. There does not seem to be any mention that other Seekers at Alendi's time heard it.

Yes, but Allomancy was unknown at that time, even Alendi didn't know how he was able to hear pulses. But I think nobody else but Alendi and Vin were able to hear them. Marsh has never mentioned them, he was almost as strong as Vin, he should be able to hear them.

 

And I've found the WoB saying that pulses of the Well were hearable to all Allomancers, but later when they were stronger. Vin was able to hear them earlier because of her double bronze:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

The Elusive Allomancer

It didn't occur to me until doing this annotation that Vin's ability to pierce copperclouds has been a kind of minitheme for all three books. She discovered the power early in book one, and by using it was able to save Elend's from getting killed by Shan and her assassins. In book two, it let Vin try to track down the spy, while also letting her hear the pulsings of the Well of Ascension before they were powerful enough for other Allomancers to recognize.

Now, in book three, it lets her discover this hidden Allomancer and begin chasing him down. Where she got her ability to pierce the copperclouds is a major factor in what is happening in this novel and how the plot will play out in the end.

If you're wondering, then yes—this is Ruin appearing to Vin and acting as a Mistborn to distract her. Right here, he's worried about the siege. He wants Vin and Elend to just attack the city and move on with it. He's frustrated that his pawns aren't doing what he intended them to do—at least not as quickly as he wanted. So he helps Yomen here by distracting Vin, hoping that by having them get attacked and losing some of their koloss they'll get angry at Yomen and strike back in retribution.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Nov. 5, 2009)

 

[Koloss17 She/They]

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Alendi was also spiked, it's likely that just like in Vin's case, Ruin make sure to give him double bronze as well:

  Reveal hidden contents

Vegasdev

Alendi's "Piercings of the Hero"?

Brandon Sanderson

This is part of the manipulation Ruin did during the classical era on Scadrial, before the coming of the Lord Ruler. Piercings, and Hemalurgy, were part of the world before the coming of Allomancy in its modern form. Then, they were seen as a means of communicating with deity—which, indeed, they were. Ruin manipulated this to make sure any Hero of Ages who came would be under his influence. The reference is included mostly to indicate that yes, Alendi was under Ruin's influence. He ignored Rashek, though. (At least, right up to the moment when everything went 'wrong' for Ruin, when Rashek killed his chosen Hero of Ages.)

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Very likely. Ruin spiked out bronze out of Vin's little sister. What were the chances that she was burning bronze? Slim, yet Ruin somehow knew it. At the times of Alendi Mists were snapping people into Misting, Alendi was one of them. Ruin just needed to spike one of many new Mistings and give that spike to Alendi - which could have happened just like with Spook, spiked during fighting. People didn't need to know there were Allomancers, they were burning metals etc, but Ruin would know that.

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

Also, as a note, Alendi was an Allomancer, as the epigraph notes here. He had to be—he heard the pulsing at the Well of Ascension when nobody else could. "Ah," you might say, "but I thought that you said Allomancy didn't exist before those beads." That isn't 100% true. The legends say that Allomancy came with the Deepness. Alendi was one of the very first Allomancers, and he gained his powers as the mists began to cover the world.

That's important.

Because, of course, he was Snapped by the mists, like is happening to people in this book.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Feb. 23, 2010)

 

That's also very likely. 

Keep in mind, that wasn't just a perpendicularity, that was Preservation's mind, immense amount of power, keeping Ruin's mind imprisoned.

He was, that's why Ruin's mist was there too. His mind was kept imprisoned there, able to only glimpse into PR on rhythms sent out by the Well.

  Reveal hidden contents

Vegasdev

The other lake in Alendi's bumps?

Brandon Sanderson

A manifestation of Ruin's gathered consciousness, much like the dark mists in book two. The lake was still around in Vin's era, but had been moved under ground. (Note that the Well is a very similar manifestation. You've also seen one other manifestation like this....)

[...]

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Fifty-Five

Elend Sees the Mist Spirit

Elend really does have a lot of faith in Vin, even if he doesn't worship her. He ascribes an almost supernatural power to her. And, I can kind of see why he would. In these books, Vin's almost less of a character and more a force. Like Ruin and Preservation, in a way.

Regardless, this chapter is about Elend giving up—then finding his hope again. I bring the mist spirit back here for a final appearance, but I wanted to be careful not to have it give too much information to Elend. Not because I don't want the information itself to get out, but because the mist spirit hasn't been a presence in this book, and so I haven't foreshadowed it enough. Therefore, if it simply showed up and gave a bunch of answers, I think that would feel cheap to the reader.

The mist spirit is, as the next epigraph explains, the remnants of Preservation's mind. I don't delve into it too much in this book, even the epigraphs, but Preservation's consciousness is indeed separate from his power. However, his consciousness itself has a limited power. And that is what he used to bind Ruin.

That did not weaken his power, which still protects the world. Instead, it cost him his mind, leaving behind only a faint shadow—like the mists' memory of Preservation, far removed from what he had once been.

That consciousness attached to Preservation—like the one attached to Ruin—is a part of Adonalsium, which will eventually be explained. Suffice it to say that in a pinch, Preservation could draw upon the power of his own mind and use it to imprison Ruin. This was why he was able to pull of the trick, as Ruin wasn't expecting it. He might have anticipated an attack using Preservation's power, but not his mind—not knowing what burning his own mind would do.

That is why Preservation's cage captured Ruin's own mind, but not his power.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Jan. 19, 2010)

 

Yes, but Allomancy was unknown at that time, even Alendi didn't know how he was able to hear pulses. But I think nobody else but Alendi and Vin were able to hear them. Marsh has never mentioned them, he was almost as strong as Vin, he should be able to hear them.

 

And I've found the WoB saying that pulses of the Well were hearable to all Allomancers, but later when they were stronger. Vin was able to hear them earlier because of her double bronze:

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

The Elusive Allomancer

It didn't occur to me until doing this annotation that Vin's ability to pierce copperclouds has been a kind of minitheme for all three books. She discovered the power early in book one, and by using it was able to save Elend's from getting killed by Shan and her assassins. In book two, it let Vin try to track down the spy, while also letting her hear the pulsings of the Well of Ascension before they were powerful enough for other Allomancers to recognize.

Now, in book three, it lets her discover this hidden Allomancer and begin chasing him down. Where she got her ability to pierce the copperclouds is a major factor in what is happening in this novel and how the plot will play out in the end.

If you're wondering, then yes—this is Ruin appearing to Vin and acting as a Mistborn to distract her. Right here, he's worried about the siege. He wants Vin and Elend to just attack the city and move on with it. He's frustrated that his pawns aren't doing what he intended them to do—at least not as quickly as he wanted. So he helps Yomen here by distracting Vin, hoping that by having them get attacked and losing some of their koloss they'll get angry at Yomen and strike back in retribution.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Nov. 5, 2009)

 

Honestly, I think that you, @Underwater_Worldhopper, and @therunner deserve your own thread that is literally just you guys bantering over how the entirety of the Cosmere’s inner workings function. I’m ready to see it get up to the highest page count of any thread on the Shard.
 

I’m not saying this because I’m bitter that my threads are being hijacked—I’m just noticing a trend with y’all

Edited June 1, 2023 by Koloss17

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

Honestly, I think that you, @Underwater_Worldhopper, and @therunner deserve your own thread that is literally just you guys bantering over how the entirety of the Cosmere’s inner workings function. I’m ready to see it get up to the highest page count of any thread on the Shard.
 

I’m not saying this because I’m bitter that my threads are being hijacked—I’m just noticing a trend with y’all

Hahaha, that's so true. Recently we just keep arguing everywhere over every little thing  

[Isilel]

Anyway, I think that we can all agree that if Nicrosil can indeed be used to strengthen allomancy, Seekers might be able to hear rythms which are otherwise out of their range and that could lead to various investiture science and magi-tech breakthroughs. 

Now, Copper allomancy hides investiture use from detection and protects the misting from emotional allomancy - and similar influences? Basically, on Scadrial and most other worlds a Coppercloud is mostly useful as part of a team, but there are places in the cosmere where this power might be valuable by itself like spoilers

 

Spoiler

Sixth of the Sun, where it can prevent being tracked by predators according to a WoB. I guess that all those eaten Silverlight scientists didn't think to recruit one, eh? But I also wonder whether burning copper might not hide breaches of the simple rules from shades on Threnody, if the shades detect them via investiture fluctuations. 

I think that tapping Identity might have been potentially useful to resist any changes imposed from outside, like cosmere spoilers

Spoiler

being soulcast into things or consumed by a shade. 

and maybe to provide additional protection against emotional allomancy. However, Sanderson RAFOed all questions touching on tapping Identity and even hinted that it might not be possible. In which case Identity mind would  be just a sink, which would make certain amount of sense because aluminum. Then F-Aluminum part of the pair wouldn't contribute anything. 

[mip67]

On 5/31/2023 at 6:18 PM, Koloss17 said:

Random Twinborn Combo Day 37:

A-Copper and F-Aluminum

Well isn’t this an interesting combo. A support metal with a we-don’t-know-what Feruchemical metal (Honestly, Feruchemical sounds ridiculous and rolls way worse off the tongue than Feruchemantic IMO).

Could there be something interesting here? Certainly! …if we can figure out how the heck storing identity would work. We sorta know how other things can interact with it, but there ain’t much for what it really does. What would having less or more Identity even do? I have lovely theories on how it would affect A-Gold, for example, but I really don’t know what it could do on its own.

Resonance: This would be a good one for the spike-holding resistance, honestly.

Name: Truesoul sounds good, but seems like a mixture of Trueself and Firesoul.

Rating: 6/10, but who knows! If Identity was less of a mystery to me, it might bump up that rating.

…I know I did this resonance idea before, but I can’t seem to easily find it in the thread. Please tell me this isn’t the first accidental repeat combo?

You have never said the phrase "A-Copper and F-Aluminum" in your entire time at the shard!

And I have too much time on my hands!
So in any case, this thread is really showing me how much we don't really know about identity, connection, fortune etc. We know what they are... kinda. and we know what they might do... maybe?

hopefully these get cleared up in a book coming soon. (mistborn era 3 sounds promising, as they might apply the scientific method to things)

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

18 hours ago, mip67 said:

So in any case, this thread is really showing me how much we don't really know about identity, connection, fortune etc. We know what they are... kinda. and we know what they might do... maybe?

So, we know what they are as attributes, we just don't know what they do when augmented the way they are in Feruchemy, and Brandon is tight-lipped about it to keep plenty of surprises for Era 3

18 hours ago, mip67 said:

hopefully these get cleared up in a book coming soon. (mistborn era 3 sounds promising, as they might apply the scientific method to things)

I think they'll go beyond the scientific method. The scientific method is just how to carry out experiments in a fair and deliberate way, in Era 3 we'll be seeing the magical equivalents of computers, and hopefully even more.

[Jn819 she/her]

On 5/31/2023 at 8:05 AM, Isilel said:

However, here is where it gets interesting. A-Bronze is supposed to only detect kinetic investiture, but Vin and Alendi (who was a Seeker according to a WoB), heard the rythms of the Well. So, it seems that under certain conditions they can overcome this limitation.

 

On 5/31/2023 at 5:05 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Vin also heard the presence of Ruin as allomantic pulses whose metal she couldn't distinguish. There are WoBs that Seekers detect Kinetic Investiture, though, so I don't know if there's an exception for Shardic or near-Shardic levels of static Investiture or if the Well and Ruin's presence were partially Kinetic.

I lean towards the latter. Vin describes the pulses of the Well as "demanding" at one point. I think it has the Intent to be used, and was designed to broadcast pulses kind of like the opposite of A-Copper.

As for the sensing of Ruin and the mist spirit, those seem to basically be projections. It's a bit like Lightweaving from the Stormlight Archive, and (OB spoilers):

Spoiler

Pattern says Lightweaving is "quieter" than Lashings and that's why the Secretspren of Kholinar don't catch their disguises. But "quieter" is not silent.

Maybe Shardic projections are louder than Lightweaving, or maybe this is another example of Vin's exceptional strength with A-Bronze.

[Koloss17 She/They]

Well, I’ve taken a week’s break, but I’m back (at least for now)! I can’t guarantee that there will be another combo tomorrow, but I can guarantee one today!

Random Twinborn Combo Day 38:

A-Steel and F-Duralumin

Wasn’t there something about connection manipulation to adjust where on the body you are pushing from? Or was that something else? 
 

Anyway, if that’s the case, then that could be fairly interesting. Is it groundbreaking with steel? Not really. Best you could do is make it so that something in front of you goes in an unexpected direction because the center of push is on your hand, not your chest. Something like that that’s a neat party trick, but not much else. I suppose you could consistently beat someone in a push-off though. 
 

Also, have we gotten confirmation on whether duralumin could strengthen your connection with your own metals? Your connection with Harmony? Not sure if we have, but if that’s the case, it could also mean that this Twinborn could best other coinshots.

Basically what I’m getting at is that this particular Twinborn could probably decimate other coinshots, one way or another.

I can’t say too much about Connection, given that I don’t really know exactly how many things you can Connect with. However, if someone, like Alder, for instance, has any insight into the potential here, that would be great.

Resonance: Honestly no idea.

Name: given that I do not yet fully understand the capabilities, it might be a good idea to hold on to the name for now.

Rating: 7.5/10 as of how I understand it, but consider the rating in flux right now.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Koloss17

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Well, I’ve taken a week’s break, but I’m back (at least for now)! I can’t guarantee that there will be another combo tomorrow, but I can guarantee one today!

Welcome back. I've missed it  

2 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Wasn’t there something about connection manipulation to adjust where on the body you are pushing from? Or was that something else? 

Anyway, if that’s the case, then that could be fairly interesting. Is it groundbreaking with steel? Not really. Best you could do is make it so that something in front of you goes in an unexpected direction because the center of push is on your hand, not your chest. Something like that that’s a neat party trick, but not much else. I suppose you could consistently beat someone in a push-off though. 

Identity. At least that was what I was arguing based on a WoB. Connection won't do it as it isn't affecting your center of self, or even tapping connection doesn't make steel lines stronger:

Spoiler

Oversleep

Could you write [sign] the Alcatraz like Alcatraz?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. He signs upside down.

Oversleep

Would tapping Connection increase the steelsight?

Brandon Sanderson

No, probably not, there are arrangements that could make that happen but just tapping it, no.

Kraków signing (March 21, 2017)  

 

2 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Also, have we gotten confirmation on whether duralumin could strengthen your connection with your own metals? Your connection with Harmony? Not sure if we have, but if that’s the case, it could also mean that this Twinborn could best other coinshots.

Possibly, but I doubt it would do what you want it to do. That's nicrosil. But tapping connection to Preservation/Harmony might allow you to use Mists as a fuel.

2 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

I can’t say too much about Connection, given that I don’t really know exactly how many things you can Connect with. However, if someone, like Alder, for instance, has any insight into the potential here, that would be great.

My name has been spoken! No idea tbf. Connection won't allow you to increase the range or strength of your steel lines, nor it would make your Allomancy stronger like Nicrosil. At best you could draw from Mists, which would make your every steelpush as strong as duralumin burned one and that would give you a huge advantage - on nights with Mists only. 

Other than that you can run away from somebody, and store connection to make yourself noticeable to the person chasing you. A neat way to escape. But I have no idea what more can you do with those powers. I believe it would be something cool.

 

Spoiler

 

[cometaryorbit]

Yeah, unfortunately we don't know enough about what the Spiritual metals do in Feruchemy.