Syl and Kal

[Shadonin he/him]

Could Syl and Kaladin in Roshar ever get together?

It seems she is the only person close to him of the opposite sex other than his mother.

[NameIess]

I’m of the opinion that it won’t happen. Syl is a spren, so the only way I could see a romantic relationship happening between them is if Syl gets dragged into the physical realm by Ishar.

aside from the improbability of it, I don’t really see a point to them “getting together” considering that their souls are bonded together. Can’t get much closer to each other than that.

[Shadonin he/him]

Thanks!

[alder24]

52 minutes ago, Shadonin said:

Could Syl and Kaladin in Roshar ever get together?

It seems she is the only person close to him of the opposite sex other than his mother.

The only thing I want more from Syl and Kal's relationship is for Syl to physically hug Kal when he's having a really bad time. Other than that they're perfect the way they are.

[Shadonin he/him]

I agree on that I was just asking cause I saw something off the shard about it and wanted your guys opinion.

Thank you

[Treamayne]

5 hours ago, Shadonin said:

Could Syl and Kaladin in Roshar ever get together?

I'm sure there are worse things that could happen in the SA series, but I can't think of any off of the top of my head.

I also cannot understand why people find it so difficult to consider a loving and supporting relationship that is not sexual or romantic.

Maybe Kal is the poster child for:

Spoiler

Quote

"You Can’t Love Someone Else Until You Love Yourself"

Granted it is a mostly debunked theme, that originally meant "you have to accept your flaws and find self-love" but is mostly turned into an avoidance technique - that doesn't mean that Kaladin doesn't feel some of this.

Also, I applaud the fact that we have a main character without a "romantic interest." (slight rant)

Spoiler

That whole subplot with Shallan in Oathbringer was the worst part of Oathbringer for me. Even after I understood that the Lightweaver Resonance was to have a positive emotional impact on those around you (which was one small part of the reason why Tien always helped Kal's depression) it still makes me cringe when I reread that book.

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Treamayne
Formatting

[Duxredux he/him]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

The only thing I want more from Syl and Kal's relationship is for Syl to physically hug Kal when he's having a really bad time. Other than that they're perfect the way they are.

Agreed. Which we get in Shadesmar right before entering the Battle of Thaylen City.

On that note, the other way they could have a more conventional relationship is if Kaladin moved to Shadesmar and stayed. This is pretty easy to do these days, but Kaladin probably will always feel responsible for his people, even if he doesn't take it to the unhealthy levels he did before his fourth Oath. For that matter, I'm not sure if the way Kaladin views his Oaths would let him be that far removed from the war effort (assuming there's still conflict in the back half, and that the war doesn't go to Shadesmar).

That was just to cover the bases. I am hoping that they just stay as really good supportive friends. Kaladin doesn't really need more drama with those closest to him.

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 4/25/2023 at 9:47 PM, Treamayne said:

Also, I applaud the fact that we have a main character without a "romantic interest." (slight rant)

  Hide contents

That whole subplot with Shallan in Oathbringer was the worst part of Oathbringer for me. Even after I understood that the Lightweaver Resonance was to have a positive emotional impact on those around you (which was one small part of the reason why Tien always helped Kal's depression) it still makes me cringe when I reread that book.

 

Personally, I thought that it was okay, but nothing more, nothing less.

Wax and Steris though, that was pretty nice to see develop .

Edited April 28, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Treamayne]

10 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Wax and Steris though, that was pretty nice to see develop

Concur

[Aetherbound he/him]

On 4/25/2023 at 7:47 PM, Treamayne said:

I understood that the Lightweaver Resonance was to have a positive emotional impact on those around you (which was one small part of the reason why Tien always helped Kal's depression)

When did we learn that was the lightweaver resonance?

[Treamayne]

17 minutes ago, Aetherbound said:

When did we learn that was the lightweaver resonance?

I don't think it is confirmed as "resonance" but it is certainly described like a resonance. WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

In Stormlight, with Kaladin and his brother Tien, is there a connection or a reason why, whenever his brother finds a rock, that keeps coming up several times?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. So, there's a couple themes going on here. One is just the subtle theme that Tien tends to find beauty in things that Kaladin finds dull. That's, of course, kind of the metaphor. But Tien also was a budding Lightweaver, and he saw color and light a little bit differently than other people did. And he has the same general effect that you'll see Shallan having on people, which is how the Lightweaver views you influences a little bit more how your mood is, and things like that... And there is a magical element to that, as well. There's both a metaphoric reason and an in-world reason.

You also see this with Shallan. Not just her interactions with Kal (reminding him of how Tien made him feel better) but with her interactions with the deserters in WoR (who become her squires). WoR Ch 30:

Spoiler

Shallan smiled, then started sketching.

“Do you need me to pose or something?” Gaz asked.

“Sure,” she said, mostly to keep him busy while she drew. She tidied up his uniform, smoothing out his paunch, taking liberties with his chin. Most of the difference, however, had to do with the expression. Looking up, into the distance. With the right expression, that eye patch became noble, that scarred face became wise, that uniform became a mark of pride. She filled it in with some light background details reminiscent of that night beside the fires, when the people of the caravan had thanked Gaz and the others for their rescue.

She removed the sheet from the pad, then turned it toward him. Gaz took it reverently, running his hand through his hair. “Storms,” he whispered. “Is that really what I looked like?”

“Yes,” Shallan said. She could faintly feel Pattern as he vibrated softly nearby. A lie . . . but also a truth. That was certainly how the people Gaz saved had viewed him.

“Thank you, Brightness,” Gaz said. “I . . . Thank you.” Ash’s eyes! He actually seemed to be tearing up.

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

I think the Lightweaver Resonance was actually confirmed by WoB to be Connecting with things in a way that gives them perfect recall of it later, which is what Shallan's Memories are. The 'changing people's attitudes depending on how you see them' must be a side effect of this Resonance (maybe the other way round, but I think its less likely than the converse)

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I think the Lightweaver Resonance was actually confirmed by WoB to be Connecting with things in a way that gives them perfect recall of it later, which is what Shallan's Memories are. The 'changing people's attitudes depending on how you see them' must be a side effect of this Resonance (maybe the other way round, but I think its less likely than the converse)

From the Coppermind:

Spoiler

Lightweavers may have multiple Resonances, with a prominent one being mnemonic abilities.

From the Epigraph to WoR Ch 49:

Spoiler

These Lightweavers, by no coincidence, included many who pursued the arts; namely: writers, artists, musicians, painters, sculptors. Considering the order's general temperament, the tales of their strange and varied mnemonic abilities may have been embellished.

WoBs:

Spoiler

 

Quote

 

Swamp-Spirit

Shallan's Memory ability to capture an image doesn't seem to be working exactly like an eidetic memory...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Swamp-Spirit

...because she can erase it by drawing. Is that tied directly to the magic of Lightweaving? And if so would other creative Lightweavers have similar abilities.

Brandon Sanderson

If you look at the epigraphs there is a big hint on this, where it talks about it and yes... I have problems with eidetic memory, just because scientifically most scientists say this is not a real thing. So I would say that whenever-- Because of my knowledge of the science of it understand that you would need some sort of magical enhancement to be able to do what she does.

 

Quote

Questioner

Shallan's photographic memory, is that due to her Connection to Pattern?

Brandon Sanderson

Shallan's memory is not, um, her memory has a supernatural component.

 

So, the mnemonic ability is tied to the Order of Lightweavers, may be a Resonance (but not one that all Lightweavers experience) but Sanderson did not use that term in the WoBs and the epigraph confirms that not all lightweavers experienced that effect. Sanderson also said that the emotional effct is a part of the Lightweavers, and also failed to use the word resonance when describing it. (R0W Spoilers)

Spoiler

It's possible that there are more than one possible resonance for Lightweavers, especially since their order is about self-actualization. It's also possible that Shallan is displaying two resonances - one from Testament and one from Pattern. Further supported by the fact that she could do the memories in Kharbranth (Testament), but she didn't start showing the emotional effect until late in WpR (Pattern).

 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

From the Coppermind:

  Hide contents

Lightweavers may have multiple Resonances, with a prominent one being mnemonic abilities.

From the Epigraph to WoR Ch 49:

  Hide contents

These Lightweavers, by no coincidence, included many who pursued the arts; namely: writers, artists, musicians, painters, sculptors. Considering the order's general temperament, the tales of their strange and varied mnemonic abilities may have been embellished.

WoBs:

  Hide contents

 

 

So, the mnemonic ability is tied to the Order of Lightweavers, may be a Resonance (but not one that all Lightweavers experience) but Sanderson did not use that term in the WoBs and the epigraph confirms that not all lightweavers experienced that effect. Sanderson also said that the emotional effct is a part of the Lightweavers, and also failed to use the word resonance when describing it. (R0W Spoilers)

  Hide contents

It's possible that there are more than one possible resonance for Lightweavers, especially since their order is about self-actualization. It's also possible that Shallan is displaying two resonances - one from Testament and one from Pattern. Further supported by the fact that she could do the memories in Kharbranth (Testament), but she didn't start showing the emotional effect until late in WpR (Pattern).

 

So at this point, it could be one or the other, or both, or something else with these two as side effects. Resonances get more and more frustrating the more you look into them. For Windrunners, the Resonance was said to have more squires than average, but it's later stated that the true Resonance of the Adhesion and Gravitation is the Reverse Lashing. So the Surgebinders have just a variety of Resonances to pick from.

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

So at this point, it could be one or the other, or both, or something else with these two as side effects. Resonances get more and more frustrating the more you look into them. For Windrunners, the Resonance was said to have more squires than average, but it's later stated that the true Resonance of the Adhesion and Gravitation is the Reverse Lashing. So the Surgebinders have just a variety of Resonances to pick from.

I think that in at least some of these cases, we (the fans) are using the wrong terminology (we are calling something a resonance, that is something similar, but different).

For example, in this WoB:

Spoiler

Ray745

You have stated that each Knights Radiant Order gets their own unique ability, for lack of a better word, due to the combination of their Surges. For instance, you have stated this ability for the Windrunners is strength of squires. My question - is this due to the Nahel bond, or just inherent in the Surges combining. Would a non-Radiant get these abilities from the Honorblades, or would they be out of luck due to no Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! The unique abilities have more to do with the powers interacting, same as how Twinborn will often manifest some odd side effects of the powers interacting. But there are limitations. For example, Jezrien didn't actually have any squires, as none of the Heralds did.

We learn that some of the abilities attributed to the orders are derived from the interactions of their two surges; but some are not (specifically mentioned - Windrunner Squires).

And in this WoB:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The "perks" ("secondary effect born with interaction between powers") also has not a 100% sure name, but the main one at the moment is resonances....We will discovered a lot of the in the third trilogy where the Scientific Method would be applied to the magic.

We learn that a Resonance is specifically an "interaction between two different powers."

Which tells me that, theoretically, a Reverse Lashing is the Resonance of Adhesion + Gravitation; while the Windrunner Squire perk isn't a true Resonance - but is a function of the order of Windrunners (also specifically not seen in Jezrien or Szeth through the Honorblade).

How that relates to Shallan and Lightweavers is up for debate, since we also saw her meld Illumination and Transformation into illusions that could be "touched" during the battle of Thaylen Field; but we also knwo the Mnemonic ability and the emotional influence ability play into the order of Lightweavers somehow.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

4 hours ago, Treamayne said:

I think that in at least some of these cases, we (the fans) are using the wrong terminology (we are calling something a resonance, that is something similar, but different).

For example, in this WoB:

  Hide contents

Ray745

You have stated that each Knights Radiant Order gets their own unique ability, for lack of a better word, due to the combination of their Surges. For instance, you have stated this ability for the Windrunners is strength of squires. My question - is this due to the Nahel bond, or just inherent in the Surges combining. Would a non-Radiant get these abilities from the Honorblades, or would they be out of luck due to no Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! The unique abilities have more to do with the powers interacting, same as how Twinborn will often manifest some odd side effects of the powers interacting. But there are limitations. For example, Jezrien didn't actually have any squires, as none of the Heralds did.

We learn that some of the abilities attributed to the orders are derived from the interactions of their two surges; but some are not (specifically mentioned - Windrunner Squires).

And in this WoB:

  Hide contents

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The "perks" ("secondary effect born with interaction between powers") also has not a 100% sure name, but the main one at the moment is resonances....We will discovered a lot of the in the third trilogy where the Scientific Method would be applied to the magic.

We learn that a Resonance is specifically an "interaction between two different powers."

Which tells me that, theoretically, a Reverse Lashing is the Resonance of Adhesion + Gravitation; while the Windrunner Squire perk isn't a true Resonance - but is a function of the order of Windrunners (also specifically not seen in Jezrien or Szeth through the Honorblade).

How that relates to Shallan and Lightweavers is up for debate, since we also saw her meld Illumination and Transformation into illusions that could be "touched" during the battle of Thaylen Field; but we also knwo the Mnemonic ability and the emotional influence ability play into the order of Lightweavers somehow.

Makes sense, good logical deduction.

[Shadonin he/him]

On 4/28/2023 at 2:12 PM, Trusk'our said:

Personally, I thought that it was okay, but nothing more, nothing less.

Wax and Steris though, that was pretty nice to see develop .

 

On 4/28/2023 at 2:23 PM, Treamayne said:

Concur

I personally do not think Wax and Steris was a good development but if it was Wax and Maris or whatever her name is and then WAYNE and Steris I think that would be best.

 

Thank you all for all this conversation this is really helping

[Treamayne]

3 minutes ago, Shadonin said:

Thank you all for all this conversation this is really helping

Please try to avoid double-posting. Some tools you may not be aware of that may help:

Spoiler

At the bottom left of a post you will see a "+" icon, a "Quote" link, and (your posts only) and Edit and Options tools. On the bottom right you will see an up arrow.

• The Up Arrow is how you thank people or "like" a post
• The "Quote" link is exactly that, when you click it the quote will be added to the reply at the bottom of the thread wherever the cursor is
  • So, if you have already started to reply before you decide to quote you can then add the quote before or after your text depending on the cursor location when you click "Quote"
• The + icon is multi-quote. As you read a thread, if you want to quote multiple items you click that for each post
  • As you click +, you should see a toaster pop-up on the bottom right of the browser window showing how many quotes you will have
  • They are added in the order you click the + icon, not in the original post order, so you can set the order of quotes for your reply
  • When you are ready to reply, click on the toaster pop-up and it will take you directly to the reply section and add the quotes automatically
• Finally, you can also highlight a small section of a post and, when hovering over the highlit portion, click the "Quote" button that pops up.
• Also note that you can move quotes after they have been added to your reply.
  • For example, you add a quote and realize there are no empty lines below it for you to type - so you can hit "enter" before the quote to make an empty line then when you hover over a quote you will see a 4-way arrow at the top-left that you can use to drag the quote up (or down)  and move the quote to before the empty line. . .
• Use the Edit link to make changes to a completed post or add information to your post if it is the most recent (to avoid double posting)
  • Quote buttons will still send a quote to "Reply" if you have a post open for edit, but it is easy to cut/paste the quote to the Edit box
  • Editing allows you to add a reason for the edit (Spelling and grammar (SPAG), formatting, clarification, new information, etc.), but it is not required.
• Next to Edit you will also find an "options" dropbox, you can use this to hide your post if you want to remove it after posting
• At the top of a post you will find "Report Post"
  • Use this if you do accidentally double-post (sometimes it's the browser or a slow link that causes a double post) - just leave a message that it was an accidental double post and the Mods can fix it. If it was the first post of a new thread that doubled, they usually can merge the threads if they both have answers, so all of the content is retained.

Hope that helps.

 

[alder24]

59 minutes ago, Shadonin said:

I personally do not think Wax and Steris was a good development but if it was Wax and Maris or whatever her name is and then WAYNE and Steris I think that would be best.

No, both Steris and Wax grew a lot thanks to their relationship, Steris changed for the better, became more confident and sociable, while Wax was able to move on from Lessie and willingly marry another woman. Thanks to Steris, Wax took interest in his duties as a lord, took care of his business, saved his family from falling into bankruptcy and became an influential political figure. He changed from a simple lawman to lord Ladrian. They were so good together. None of this would be possible if Wax chose Marasi instead. They wouldn't grow. Wax would still be a lawman first, and his family businesses would likely bankrupt. Not to mention that Marasi and Allik are cute together - don't you dare separate them!

Steris is the worst choice for Wayne - they hated each other and didn't understand each other at all. That could be a very toxic relationship.

Edit: That's my opinion at least, you're free to have a different one  

Edited May 8, 2023 by alder24

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Shadonin said:

I personally do not think Wax and Steris was a good development but if it was Wax and Maris or whatever her name is and then WAYNE and Steris I think that would be best.

Why do you say that? I don't want to bash you for your opinion, I'm merely curious.

6 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No, both Steris and Wax grew a lot thanks to their relationship, Steris changed for the better, became more confident and sociable, while Wax was able to move on from Lessie and willingly marry another woman. Thanks to Steris, Wax took interest in his duties as a lord, took care of his business, saved his family from falling into bankruptcy and became an influential political figure. He changed from a simple lawman to lord Ladrian. They were so good together. None of this would be possible if Wax chose Marasi instead. They wouldn't grow. Wax would still be a lawman first, and his family businesses would likely bankrupt. Not to mention that Marasi and Allik are cute together - don't you dare separate them!

That was my line of reasoning as well. 

I really wanted Marasi and Wax to get together for a while, but I eventually came to the conclusion that Wax and Steris fit really well together. But, that's my opinion, of course.