Ideas for Scadrien Invested Technology

[Trusk'our he/him]

After I started to think about it more, there may be quite a few ways that Southern Scadrial's mag-tech could be used. Here's a few ideas I came up with- most of them use the idea of being able to let inanimate objects use Allomancy or Feruchemy, as we've already seen that is possible with the Malwish airships.

Weight reducer: This one actually exists already, but we've only seen it in action on the Malwish airships, making them light enough to fly. But it also could be used to make transporting heavy goods or perhaps for construction (moving heavier parts of building and such around when building them).

You could also make a BIG sentry gun, reduce its weight to move it around, then increase its weight beyond normal when firing to give it a better footing. Big firepower for the military.

Heat Manipulators: Using Feruchemical brass, you could create a device that could quickly melt holes through thick metal doors, possibly useful for spies and such for breaking into secure vaults (only thing I was creative enough to come up with, though I'm more than open to other ideas of how to use this device).

You could also create a suit that reduces and regulates the heat of the wearer as well as itself. When moving into extreme environments, such as a frozen mountain top or the inside of an active Ashmount (yes, I know that they're not active currently, but let's pretend for a moment, shall we?), you could protect the wearer and their equipment- an improvement over natural brass Feruchemy.

You could probably use the suit to protect a Steelrunner from friction as well, but they'd have to be moving fast before they'd really need it.

Temporal Trains: By harnessing Bendalloy and cadmium to create an Alcubierre drive, allowing for faster than normal travel. Bullet trains (Bendalloy trains?) could create Speedbubbles to speed up the train's movement while using cadmium to negate the temporal effects on its passengers (F-steel might also work in place of Bendalloy and cadmium, but seems somewhat less viable). Basically, a lesser version of FTL travel, but for trains.

Speaking of FTL travel, an obvious use for such a device is on spaceships once Scadrial gets the necessary technology.

Pewter-strengtheners: Through the use of Allomantic pewter you could create items with an enhanced durability and toughness. One potential application for this would be creating shields or suits of armor for the Scadrien military that were lightweight but strong (basically, another way to create Half-Shards). F-iron may also be able to aide in creating such shields and armors.

You may even be able to replicate Shardplate, though it likely would be less efficient (wouldn't self-repair, requires Godmetals to fuel it).

A more constructive use for A-pewter used mechanically would be to strengthen buildings, allowing for larger than normal structures to exist. You'd need a constant use of Harmonium however, so it would likely be risky, especially if a shipment of the Godmetal was interrupted or if such a structure were used by the Northern Scadriens but the Southern Scadriens refused to sell them more Harmonium (such as if a war broke out).

Coppermind Technology: Now, this one has some interesting potential applications. You could create a Coppermind archive that anyone could access (basically just a big Unsealed Coppermind), using it to store personal memories or to store information on all kinds of things. If you could figure out how to copy those memories you could quickly spread information that would have taken more time to do so (F-zinc could help process it faster too).

You may be able to use this design to create a "CopperWeb" that could let people all over Scadrial share memories with each other. You could perhaps even make a real-time (or past-time) VR themed device by copying memories and transferring them to others over the CopperWeb. Depending on the extent of F-duralumin's abilities, you may even be able to make the CopperWeb wireless by using Connection (the spiritual kind ) rather than physically connecting the whole thing with copper wires.

Future Sight Devices: This one is basically just a big Unsealed Metalmind that allows for enhanced access to F-zinc and A-electrum (and possibly A-duralumin), but it could be used to give people the ability to see into the future, which would be of use to leaders of Scadrial who want to look out for its best interests.

Identity-Modification: I'm not sure to what extent this could be used, but though F-aluminum, F-gold, and possibly F-copper you may be able to modify the appearance of people. I could see this being used as a form of magical plastic surgery, giving those with the money the ability to appear unnaturally beautiful, similar to Returned. Potentially this could be used for those that are running from the law, or those that are acting as spies.

Mist Condensation: This one is more of a guess, so it's on the bottom of my personal list. Using the Tones of Preservation and Ruin, Scadriens may be able to directly draw the Mists into a more concentrated, usable form. You'd also need to strip it of its Identity as well (it seems that it is tied to Sazed, hence the reason Mistings can't just use them to fuel their powers), but if using the Mists to fuel Invested tech became possible, you could make mass production of all the other devices possible.

This would be especially useful for large structures that needed A-pewter or F-iron to make them stand, as the fuel necessary to make it happen would become much cheaper and more reliable.

In any case, these are some of the ideas that I came up with for Scadrien mage-tech. If anyone else would like to add some ideas, I'd love to hear them 

[mip67]

condensed mist is basically purified dor then?

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, mip67 said:

condensed mist is basically purified dor then?

Yeah, basically. Just may be easier to harvest.

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Temporal Trains: By harnessing Bendalloy and cadmium to create an Alcubierre drive, allowing for faster than normal travel. Bullet trains (Bendalloy trains?) could create Speedbubbles to speed up the train's movement while using cadmium to negate the temporal effects on its passengers (F-steel might also work in place of Bendalloy and cadmium, but seems somewhat less viable). Basically, a lesser version of FTL travel, but for trains.

Speaking of FTL travel, an obvious use for such a device is on spaceships once Scadrial gets the necessary technology.

Or use F-steel. 

 

I can't believe you didn't think of this - RAILGUN. Just replace magnets with primar cubes charged with A-steel or A-iron and you have a railgun that doesn't need electricity at all.

[a Faceless Immortal he/him]

Yeah, I feel like the physical pushing/pulling metals combined with a weight-changing projectile (as far as I know they break conservation of momentum, so accelerate the projectile when it's light, and then drastically increase in weight before hitting the target for huge damage. Might be expensive, idk) could make a pretty solid 'railgun.'

Time bubbles are pretty useful for speeding up any chemical process, or making a cool museum if you are super rich.

And I love the idea of the Coppermind internet; who needs to have copper cables transmit information via signals when you could just touch the copper itself, and suddenly have access to the sum knowledge of Scadrial beamed in to your brain?! It would be interesting to see the mechanics of what happens if multiple people attempt to access information; presumably only one being could possess each item at a time, so it would probably be more akin to a library than our understanding of the internet, and data security would be a nightmare . However, one plus over our internet is that you would know what you access as a memory rather than having to rely on pesky reading comprehension skills. Seems pretty dang cool. To quote The Matrix, "I know Kung-Fu!"

Man, space age Cosmere is going to be exciting.

[alder24]

13 minutes ago, a Faceless Immortal said:

Yeah, I feel like the physical pushing/pulling metals combined with a weight-changing projectile (as far as I know they break conservation of momentum, so accelerate the projectile when it's light, and then drastically increase in weight before hitting the target for huge damage. Might be expensive, idk) could make a pretty solid 'railgun.'

No, conservation of momentum is conserved m1v1=m2v2, but conservation of energy on the other hand is just broken into pieces.

But in the case of what you propose, increasing the mass of the projectile right before the impact would reduce the kinetic energy as we understand it - E=mv^2/2 - speed attributes much more to kinetic energy, as it is squared, than mass.

17 minutes ago, a Faceless Immortal said:

And I love the idea of the Coppermind internet; who needs to have copper cables transmit information via signals when you could just touch the copper itself, and suddenly have access to the sum knowledge of Scadrial beamed in to your brain?! It would be interesting to see the mechanics of what happens if multiple people attempt to access information; presumably only one being could possess each item at a time, so it would probably be more akin to a library than our understanding of the internet, and data security would be a nightmare . However, one plus over our internet is that you would know what you access as a memory rather than having to rely on pesky reading comprehension skills. Seems pretty dang cool. To quote The Matrix, "I know Kung-Fu!"

15 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

You may be able to use this design to create a "CopperWeb" that could let people all over Scadrial share memories with each other. You could perhaps even make a real-time (or past-time) VR themed device by copying memories and transferring them to others over the CopperWeb. Depending on the extent of F-duralumin's abilities, you may even be able to make the CopperWeb wireless by using Connection (the spiritual kind ) rather than physically connecting the whole thing with copper wires.

Yup, the CopperWeb is a cool name, but the security would be a nightmare. Could you store a corrupt investiture in your metalminds which would be transferred to everyone else's copperminds corrupting them? A copper virus? Like melting a full bronzemind into a coppermind, which now has full bronze investiture inaccessible to anybody? 

Spoiler

Rogaen

What would happen if a Feruchemist fills, for example, a tin metalmind then mixes it to make a pewter metalmind? Does the stored attribute change? Is the Investiture gone when you melt the metal? What if he just makes it into a tin metalmind again?

Brandon Sanderson

If you make it impure, you'll keep the investiture, but won't be able to get it out. If you make it back into the same thing, you'll be fine, and can access it normally. If you try to fill it, after changing the composition to make another viable metal, it will act a little like a computer hard drive with corrupted sectors. Some of it will work for the new investiture, but you won't be able to fill it nearly as full. (Depending on how full it was before you melted down.)

This holds for basic uses of the metallurgic arts. Once you start playing with some of the more advanced parts of the magic, you can achieve different results, which are currently RAFO.

eSPiaLx

Similarly, if you were to soulcast a metal would it have similar effects of corrupting the investiture and making it inaccessible? Like if you turned a steel metalmind into pewter.

Brandon Sanderson

I've stayed away from soulcasting and forging in these types of discussions, as I feel my answers will dig too deeply and prompt more questions that, eventually, will lead to lots of RAFO type questions. I don't really want to go there--but I will say this. Changing invested objects with other magics is hard, and often requires such a force of investiture yourself, that it becomes very power-inefficient. Just like we can technically turn lead into gold right now--by spending way more money than the gold is worth.

BipedSnowman

So you could, for example, use electrolysis to dissolve a metalmind in water, then reverse the reaction later to get the investiture?

OR, better question, if you store investiture in one allotrope of iron, can your retrieve it off you change to a different allotrope?

Brandon Sanderson

I see no reason why these wouldn't work.

dce42

So would forging with the blood of a radiant(kaladin, dalinar,etc) work on a shard blade from a fallen radiant to say change who they had bonded, or how the bond was broken (to say death instead of giving up on the oath)?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

General Reddit 2016 (Nov. 11, 2016)

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Or use F-steel. 

But... I did mention that. 

Also, in order to make that happen, steel Compounding would need to take place, which could become game breaking very quickly- what's to stop people from using Compounded F-steel in combat all the time once that happens? Not saying that F-steel wouldn't work for trains, but I feel that it would make more potential holes in the plot if such ability became commonplace.

Edit: Actually, I think since Primer Cubes use Harmonium to fuel the powers they use Compounding wouldn't be necessary. So, if that could be extended to F-steel, then Steeltrains could be used instead of Bendalloy/Cadmium trains.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

I can't believe you didn't think of this - RAILGUN. Just replace magnets with primar cubes charged with A-steel or A-iron and you have a railgun that doesn't need electricity at all.

I see no reason why this wouldn't work. Might be costly due to Harmonium though (unless they ever figure out how to distil and harness the Mists for fuel).

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Yup, the CopperWeb is a cool name, but the security would be a nightmare. Could you store a corrupt investiture in your metalminds which would be transferred to everyone else's copperminds corrupting them? A copper virus? Like melting a full bronzemind into a coppermind, which now has full bronze investiture inaccessible to anybody? 

Yeah, as you and @a Faceless Immortal mentioned, security could be a problem. Perhaps they could study and experiment with Identity encryption, making some information accessible to everyone, while some information would only be accessible to those with the decryption devices. 

As for a Coppermind virus? That would be cool.

For example, if almost everyone started using the CopperWeb, a lot of Investiture could start congregating in one place which could start taking on a life of its own. It could be discovered by people that this living Investiture starts doing things on its own, making its own memories that people start to pick up on accident (the memories the people try to take get corrupted by the Invested being), or perhaps it starts meddling with machines connected to the CopperWeb.

It could either become a villain, being an evil AI/Spren sort of thing made out of the combined memories of the people of Scadrial, or perhaps it would just be another character in the story (or maybe the managers of the CopperWeb just invent a way to keep it from gaining sentience). Either way, the CopperWeb could lead to some epic worldbuilding in my opinion.

I love this idea now. I really hope Sanderson thinks of it and decides to use something like it.

3 hours ago, a Faceless Immortal said:

And I love the idea of the Coppermind internet; who needs to have copper cables transmit information via signals when you could just touch the copper itself, and suddenly have access to the sum knowledge of Scadrial beamed in to your brain?! It would be interesting to see the mechanics of what happens if multiple people attempt to access information; presumably only one being could possess each item at a time, so it would probably be more akin to a library than our understanding of the internet, and data security would be a nightmare . However, one plus over our internet is that you would know what you access as a memory rather than having to rely on pesky reading comprehension skills. Seems pretty dang cool. To quote The Matrix, "I know Kung-Fu!"

Being able to copy information would definitely make accessing the same memory for multiple people at once easier. Perhaps copper Compounding could help (if that's even what it does, though I suspect it is).

Also, being able to tell something was an actual memory and not a fabrication would be very useful.

3 hours ago, a Faceless Immortal said:

Man, space age Cosmere is going to be exciting.

Oh yeah, I'm excited to see what happens with it. Honestly, I'm really excited just to see what happens with era 3.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Koloss17 She/They]

Some additional ideas:

Temporary Life Extender: With the power of F-Cadmium, someone could resist dying from getting shot in the lung for a short amount of time. I suppose you could also survive bleeding out as well. Would be quite handy to have on-hand in a hospital.

And obviously F-gold can be might helpful too.

There’s also a very cool interaction possible between those that have trouble falling asleep (like insomniacs) and night guards.

Basically have a few unsealed bronzeminds in rotation, so that some folks can get a good night’s sleep, and then give it to someone else.

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Temporary Life Extender: With the power of F-Cadmium, someone could resist dying from getting shot in the lung for a short amount of time. I suppose you could also survive bleeding out as well. Would be quite handy to have on-hand in a hospital.

And obviously F-gold can be might helpful too.

There’s also a very cool interaction possible between those that have trouble falling asleep (like insomniacs) and night guards.

Basically have a few unsealed bronzeminds in rotation, so that some folks can get a good night’s sleep, and then give it to someone else.

Oh no, this gave me the idea of using A-Bendalloy to create a 100h work day. Here you medallion with A-Bendalloy, F-Bendalloy and F-bronze, here are your 10h worth of tasks that you have to submit in 1h. And you get paid for a normal hour, not the bubble hour.

[Trusk'our he/him]

21 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Temporary Life Extender: With the power of F-Cadmium, someone could resist dying from getting shot in the lung for a short amount of time. I suppose you could also survive bleeding out as well. Would be quite handy to have on-hand in a hospital.

That would probably be a useful ability to have, especially for E.R. technicians it to keep someone having a heart attack, stroke, or any sort of ischemia alive.

21 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

And obviously F-gold can be might helpful too.

Hospitals could have large Unkeyed Goldminds to help people recover more quickly and fully from their injures. I imagine that "health-drives" could be used to fuel them, at least until other sources of Investiture become readily available.

21 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

There’s also a very cool interaction possible between those that have trouble falling asleep (like insomniacs) and night guards.

Basically have a few unsealed bronzeminds in rotation, so that some folks can get a good night’s sleep, and then give it to someone else.

Definitely would be cool to see them used in conjunction to help those with sleep disorders and security.

8 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Oh no, this gave me the idea of using A-Bendalloy to create a 100h work day. Here you medallion with A-Bendalloy, F-Bendalloy and F-bronze, here are your 10h worth of tasks that you have to submit in 1h. And you get paid for a normal hour, not the bubble hour.

"Yeah, we don't pay by the Bubble." I could see that becoming a new slang term in the later eras 

Bet if they added some determination in there it would be of great benefit. Plus, you could probably drop the bronze and F-bendalloy, since those don't have to be tapped constantly, just regularly (since medallions with more powers are harder to come by).

Edited May 1, 2023 by Trusk'our

[mip67]

2 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

There’s also a very cool interaction possible between those that have trouble falling asleep (like insomniacs) and night guards.

Basically have a few unsealed bronzeminds in rotation, so that some folks can get a good night’s sleep, and then give it to someone else.

Yeah, but when you fall asleep through feruchemical means you don't recover energy, instead the sleep goes into the bronzemind. I assume the quality of the sleep would remain the same, so it remains end neutral in the end.

[Trusk'our he/him]

16 minutes ago, mip67 said:

Yeah, but when you fall asleep through feruchemical means you don't recover energy, instead the sleep goes into the bronzemind. I assume the quality of the sleep would remain the same, so it remains end neutral in the end.

Maybe you could use F-bonze to fall asleep initially, then stop storing/have someone take away the Bronzemind after you fall asleep? Or perhaps you just tap some of the Bronzemind after you wake up.

[mip67]

True, it could be useful for those with sleep onset insomnia (trouble falling asleep)

[a Faceless Immortal he/him]

Cadmium ambulances would definitely be a lifesaver. Could also be used transport medical isotopes or organs for transplant across greater distances.

Bendalloy would be great for high-priority construction (if you can afford it).

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

If you had a full, unkeyed Brassmind, then used Raysium to transfer it's Investiture into a Heating Fabrial, could you make it work? We know that Fabrials can work on Investiture other than Stormlight, like Voidlight, Towerlight, Warlight, and presumably Lifelight, so maybe?

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

If you had a full, unkeyed Brassmind, then used Raysium to transfer it's Investiture into a Heating Fabrial, could you make it work? We know that Fabrials can work on Investiture other than Stormlight, like Voidlight, Towerlight, Warlight, and presumably Lifelight, so maybe?

I don't know that doing so would work. Feruchemical and Allomantic Investiture is specifically Keyed to certain effects, and while Brass Feruchemy is very similar to a heating Fabrial, the difference may make it not work.

I could be wrong though, so maybe it could be made to function.

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

If you had a full, unkeyed Brassmind, then used Raysium to transfer it's Investiture into a Heating Fabrial, could you make it work? We know that Fabrials can work on Investiture other than Stormlight, like Voidlight, Towerlight, Warlight, and presumably Lifelight, so maybe?

I don't think so. Lights on Roshar are keyed to Roshar, spren are as well, and to all 3 Shards. Scadrial's investiture is keyed to Scadrial and Preservation/Ruin/Harmony. I don't think it would work. For it to work spren would have to be able to feed on any type of investiture.

Plus investiture on Scadrial, is far less "potent" than on Roshar. Metalminds are less invested than what Stormlight can provide, if this would work, you would have a bad heater.