How long did the perpendicularity last in OB?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

I am listening the battle and Kaladin just said "all of the stormlight in the world wouldn't save him if they just bound him and hacked at him until he stopped healing."  

I don't want to open the vs can of worms but I thought this was interesting that he had this thought and realization while he was surrounded by stormlight.  

Aluminum handcuffs?  Awakened chains?  Anyone who is a good grappler?  

Reminds me of Wayne fighting Not Wayne when he chokes her with his dueling cane and the extreme rate of healing that is required for it. 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I am listening the battle and Kaladin just said "all of the stormlight in the world wouldn't save him if they just bound him and hacked at him until he stopped healing."  

I don't want to open the vs can of worms but I thought this was interesting that he had this thought and realization while he was surrounded by stormlight.  

Aluminum handcuffs?  Awakened chains?  Anyone who is a good grappler?  

Reminds me of Wayne fighting Not Wayne when he chokes her with his dueling cane and the extreme rate of healing that is required for it. 

Yes, that's how you defeat someone who can heal - trap him and drain him out of his fuel.

Dalinar opened Perpendicularity for a short time, because of the broken bank, there were a lot of gems scattered around, which were slowly drained by all Radiants fighting there. Even perpendicularity has its limit of how much investiture can it provide in a single second - Nightblood would be able to collapse perpendicularity, because he draws more investiture than perpendicularity provides.

Spoiler

Questioner

What would happen if Nightblood was drawn inside of a perpendicularity?

Brandon Sanderson

It depends on the perpendicularity. It has a good chance of collapsing it.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

Spoiler

Haylo_Alex

You've said before that Soulcasting can't create Atium or Lerasium which makes sense since they're made of Investiture from other Shards. But could a Soulcaster, perhaps in the proximity of Dalinar's perpendicularity, provide enough Stormlight to Soulcast something into Honor's Godmetal (Tanavastium)? What about Cultivation's metal, or an alloy of both, like Shardblade metal?

Brandon Sanderson

So, creating a God Metal is not something that's done easily in the Cosmere. HOWEVER, it is possible. You'd need a ton of Investiture, and being near Dalinar's perpendicularity is unlikely to be enough. I'd say Soulcasting, or something akin to it, has the means to do this if it could obtain the proper power charge.

Footnote: The questioner is mentioning this WoB.
General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 4, 2020)

 

[Duxredux he/him]

 

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Even perpendicularity has its limit of how much investiture can it provide in a single second - Nightblood would be able to collapse perpendicularity, because he draws more investiture than perpendicularity provides.

Hopefully this doesn't derail this thread,  but I've seen this a few times and I'm not sure this is what that WoB means.

My take on Dalinar's Perpendicularity is that he is using Spiritual Adhesion to forcibly bind each of the three Realms together. This Spiritual Adhesion is not self-sustaining, and requires constant effort on Dalinar's part. For that matter, the rate that Stormlight comes through the Spiritual Realm may be related to the "contact patch" of his hands (since as we learn from Aon Dor, size does directly affect the power of the Aon, first with Aon Ashe and later Aon Rao). In the case of Nightblood, I think he fed on the Spiritual Adhesion that was keeping the Perpendicularity open, not drawing at a higher rate than the output of the Perpendicularity. This is similar to how if you try to feed Nightblood with an Aon, he will feed on the structure of the Aon itself. This isn't to say that Nightblood's feeding rate isn't higher than the Perpendicularity, I don't know that, but I do think collapsing the Perpendicularity is by a different mechanism.

For example, when Nightblood was starting to feed on Szeth and Lift, the Perpendicularity opens, and the gems light up with Light. It is from these gems that Szeth screams and puts Nightblood into a rather drowsy state. That was immediately after the Perpendicularity opens and that was a fraction of the Light-infused gems in the field.

To address the OP, I think it clearly indicates when Dalinar closes the Perpendicularity. Pretty sure it was before he gave orders to the assembled Radiants. When Kaladin was almost getting killed he was surrounded by a wealth of Stormlight during that fight, yes, but the range that he can draw in Stormlight from the gems littering the field is limited. Kaladin had been in a highly mobile battle up until that point, but once restrained and immobile, that was when he was limited to the gems in his immediate vicinity. Once those ran out, he was as out of Stormlight as a dying fish mere feet from the ocean.

[alder24]

2 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

Hopefully this doesn't derail this thread,  but I've seen this a few times and I'm not sure this is what that WoB means.

Together with these WoBs it makes more sense - perpendicularity is like an overpowered version of an Aon - it provides investiture. But Aon exposed to Nightblood would collapse, as Nightblood would draw more than Aon can provide in a single second.

Spoiler

Questioner

Could an Elantrian just write an Aon above Nightblood and then use it forever?

Brandon Sanderson

Use it forever? No. 

Questioner

Forever is pushing it.

Brandon Sanderson

No, no, I mean, Nightblood would destroy an Aon pretty quickly. It would pull power through it--

Questioner

It would be like trying to put too much power through a small--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it would just rip it up to shreds. You'd get a little use out of it. He would eat the very structure of it, if that makes any sense.

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Spoiler

Just another guyn

If an Elantrian were to get a hold of Nightblood and draw it, how would Nightblood react to that-- What kind of power would be unleashed?

Brandon Sanderson

So Nightblood needs kinetic Investiture to feed upon. The Elantrian would have to be able to get a conduit to the Dor to feed Nightblood or Nightblood would just eat their soul.

Just another guyn

So if they used AonDor to fuel Nightblood--

Brandon Sanderson

There are some types of AonDor that would work, and there are others that would not.

Just another guyn

And would Nightblood just keep going until either the Aon was--

Brandon Sanderson

He would dissolve the Aon as he drew the power from it.

Just another guyn

So it wouldn't just empty the Dor?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it would not empty the Dor.

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Spoiler

Questioner

So you said that different Investitures from different worlds can fuel different Investitures, right? Would that mean that you could potentially use Stormlight for Allomancy and/or Feruchemy?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, a little harder with the Metallic Arts than, for instance, Nightblood is the easiest example. He can just feed on whatever Investiture is around.

Questioner

Could he feed on the Dor from...

Brandon Sanderson

He could totally feed on the Dor.

Questioner

Would you need to have a special sheath to do that or?

Brandon Sanderson

No, what you would have to do for him on Elantris is you would have to open some conduit to the Dor that's persistent, like a light or something, and he will suck through that, he would probably end up sucking the whole aon.

Questioner

City of Elantris itself?

Brandon Sanderson

City of Elantris itself would work, yeah, but you're gonna be in trouble if he sucks up the whole thing and destroys it, which is totally possible.

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7 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

My take on Dalinar's Perpendicularity is that he is using Spiritual Adhesion to forcibly bind each of the three Realms together. This Spiritual Adhesion is not self-sustaining, and requires constant effort on Dalinar's part. For that matter, the rate that Stormlight comes through the Spiritual Realm may be related to the "contact patch" of his hands (since as we learn from Aon Dor, size does directly affect the power of the Aon, first with Aon Ashe and later Aon Rao). In the case of Nightblood, I think he fed on the Spiritual Adhesion that was keeping the Perpendicularity open, not drawing at a higher rate than the output of the Perpendicularity.

That's a probable explanation. I don't know if I like it, because there are certain things that perpendicularities can't do - like provide enough investiture to create a god metal - they aren't infinite pools of investiture. That's also why I think they don't provide more investiture per second, than Nightblood needs - what collapses them.

Spoiler

Haylo_Alex

You've said before that Soulcasting can't create Atium or Lerasium which makes sense since they're made of Investiture from other Shards. But could a Soulcaster, perhaps in the proximity of Dalinar's perpendicularity, provide enough Stormlight to Soulcast something into Honor's Godmetal (Tanavastium)? What about Cultivation's metal, or an alloy of both, like Shardblade metal?

Brandon Sanderson

So, creating a God Metal is not something that's done easily in the Cosmere. HOWEVER, it is possible. You'd need a ton of Investiture, and being near Dalinar's perpendicularity is unlikely to be enough. I'd say Soulcasting, or something akin to it, has the means to do this if it could obtain the proper power charge.

Footnote: The questioner is mentioning this WoB.
General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 4, 2020)

 

7 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

This isn't to say that Nightblood's feeding rate isn't higher than the Perpendicularity, I don't know that, but I do think collapsing the Perpendicularity is by a different mechanism.

I think the longer he is drawn, the faster he consumes investiture, he would outpace perpendicularly collapsing it.

14 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

For example, when Nightblood was starting to feed on Szeth and Lift, the Perpendicularity opens, and the gems light up with Light. It is from these gems that Szeth screams and puts Nightblood into a rather drowsy state. That was immediately after the Perpendicularity opens and that was a fraction of the Light-infused gems in the field.

Nightblood was likely not put in a food coma in that place. He just got enough investiture that he stopped feeding on Szeth's soul. And weirdly Nightblood was able to talk clearly as himself in that moment. Which I didn't notice earlier. 

[Treamayne]

20 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I am listening the battle and Kaladin just said "all of the stormlight in the world wouldn't save him if they just bound him and hacked at him until he stopped healing."  

I don't want to open the vs can of worms but I thought this was interesting that he had this thought and realization while he was surrounded by stormlight.  

Aluminum handcuffs?  Awakened chains?  Anyone who is a good grappler? 

Events in RoW will shed more light on both this and the Nightblood questions.