Tarachin Rules

[The Stormfather He/Him]

for each consecutive thrown in the same rings, add +4. because something had to have made lightsong get 416.

 

[alder24]

44 minutes ago, The Sibling said:

Just wanted to ask whether you mean for these rules to be specific to blue balls, or if this is just an example and these rules would then apply to all the balls. 

Examples in general.

[The Sibling she/her]

15 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Examples in general.

Cool thanks. I'll add them to the list. 

[Aetherbound he/him]

Thieving Sphere: If the next person fails to land within the same section or ring as the thieving sphere, the original thrower steals 20 points from the next person.

[The Sibling she/her]

1 hour ago, Aetherbound said:

Thieving Sphere: If the next person fails to land within the same section or ring as the thieving sphere, the original thrower steals 20 points from the next person.

I like that one! How about we make it for the azure ball. I think that the game should end when the balls run out. Each player should have a certain amount of balls so that they have to decide when to use the more useful balls and when to use the less useful ones. 

I have some more ideas for the balls.

- Yellow : Basic sphere. No effect.

This might seem kind of boring, but I feel that a lot of the spheres have effects that are really going to mess with the gameplay. It might be good to have a few with more minor or less useful effects. 

- Blue : Prisoner sphere. Steal one of the other players spheres. You must give it back before the end of the game, but you decide when to give it back. 

- Indigo : Dark sphere. The next throw is made with eyes closed. 

Okay that one is a little silly. If anyone objects to it, then I can take it out. Now we are really only missing a few things. The red and pink balls need effects. Also, the reversing sphere doesn't do anything, so you know, we should get on that. We should keep in mind that it cannot change the direction of the turn order, even though that would be cool. This is because in Warbreaker, Weatherlove throws, then Lightsong, then Lightsong again (crown pairing) and then Truthcall. Lightsong threw the blue ball and the order did not reverse. 

Wert made a very good point here : 

On 5/14/2023 at 4:18 PM, stormform wert said:

something had to have made lightsong get 416.

Wert's rule fixes this issue, but Lightsong actually gets 413 points. And then he gets 507. None of our rules really allow for this, so that needs to be fixed. 

Once this is fixed, and the other balls have effects, we'll be nearly done. We could use a few more stupid and over complicated rules if anyone is up for that, but it's not a must. After this, we need to re-read the section in Warbreaker to make sure that all examples of throws in the books are possible based on the rules that we have devised. Then maybe we can put together an unofficial Tarachin Rulebook. 

For actual playing of the game, maybe we should decide on some basic dimensions for the circle, weights for each ball, etc. If anyone would be willing to try it out, even with rocks in the sand, that would be great. If not, I can probably find time to do that. We could also try and simulate some games by thinking about what throws we would make, just to see if there are any rules that make one throw overpowered. 

Wow. That was a really long post. If anyone actually read to  the end, I'm impressed.

[The Stormfather He/Him]

maybe for the prisoner sphere you steal a sphere of the color you landed in.

also maybe for every sphere you get in the same section of another sphere of that color gain 1 point, and if there are two there you get two points and so on.

[The Sibling she/her]

Here's some more ideas.

Pink : Friendly sphere : The next thrower gets 50 points

Red : Chaos sphere : The next thrower throws with their non-dominant hand.  

2 hours ago, stormform wert said:

maybe for the prisoner sphere you steal a sphere of the color you landed in.

That works! I added it to the original post.

2 hours ago, stormform wert said:

also maybe for every sphere you get in the same section of another sphere of that color gain 1 point, and if there are two there you get two points and so on.

There's kind of already a rule for this.

Okay, so it's basically all done. How about we add a rule that when you throw, you get a point for every ball the same colour as yours in the ring that it lands in. 

You should get 10 points if you land your ball in a section of it's opposite colour. 

Also I wanted to clarify that the throwers should be standing in front of the yellow section of the circle (because it's the useless colour).

How about if there are colours adjacent to yours in the wheel, adjacent to the section where your ball landed, you get 1 point for each.

If you throw without looking at the board, and gain over 500 points, you lose 13 points. This is a stupid rule but maybe people would use it as a way to show off, like "I can win even without looking" and people wanted to discourage this so they made this rule.

Okay... I think the rules are done!. Time to check if they work with the throws in the book... (Spoilered for size)

Spoiler

Lightsong's first throw is an orange sphere. Lightsong says his throw went very far, so if he was standing in front of the yellow, the ball would have landed around the blue/purple. He got 413 points. It has to have landed in the center, because he achieved the crown pairing. This would give him 400 points. He's still missing 13 points. Maybe the last two throws also landed in the center, hich means that he would get 8 points. then there could be 5 adjacent colours adjacent to the center, which would give him the 5 points. 

Okay, so that works

Next throw : 

Lightsong throws a random ball, doesn't see where it lands, and then gets 507 points. Yay.

He could easily get this amount, we can say that he threw into the azure section and got 100, managed to complete the section, which would lift his score to 300. Using the azure ball would get him 20 points, which would push him to 320. He would also get 50 points for throwing adjacent to another azure ball, both on azure tiles. Now he's at 370. He still needs a lot more points. Completing a ring would get him 200, but that puts him over what we want. At 570 is too much, but if he landed in the same tile as an orange ball, he would have -50. Then because he threw without looking and achieved higher then 500, he would get -13 points. I think that puts him at 507, unless I messed up the math.

These aren't that important, I just wanted to be sure that Lightsong's throws were possible. 

Okay, I honestly think that the rules are done. I can't believe it. I made a lot of them and I don't even understand this game. Whatever. it's supposed to be complicated, right? Because I don't want to actually make the game (I don't have space or materials) I think that I'm going to make a mini version. I will add the pictures to this thread once it's done. I'll try out the game, maybe @stormform wert and I can play together. Thanks to everyone for helping! I wish we knew more about the Nalthian alphabet. I would love to make a rulebook written in Nalthian. 

Edit : I just realized that we still need to decide how many balls of each colour each person gets. I'll play test it tonight and try to figure it out. Also we need to figure out Zahel's weird solo version. So not quite done...

Edited May 27, 2023 by The Sibling

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, The Sibling said:

Pink : Friendly sphere : The next thrower gets 50 points

Shouldn't there be an element of strategy; rather than pure altruism? What if you throw the pink ball, and the next person to hit that ball with a ball that matches the color of the square it landed in gets the points (so there's a chance you are giving points to an opponent - but they may not take that chance if it would disrupt their strategy, so it might also go unclaimed until your next turn and you can claim the bonus points).

1 hour ago, The Sibling said:

If you throw without looking at the board, and gain over 500 points, you lose 13 points.

Lost 13 points instead? or deduct 13 points from the throw's score?

[The Sibling she/her]

On 5/27/2023 at 3:34 PM, Treamayne said:

Shouldn't there be an element of strategy; rather than pure altruism? What if you throw the pink ball, and the next person to hit that ball with a ball that matches the color of the square it landed in gets the points (so there's a chance you are giving points to an opponent - but they may not take that chance if it would disrupt their strategy, so it might also go unclaimed until your next turn and you can claim the bonus points).

On 5/27/2023 at 1:20 PM, The Sibling said:

I was kind of thinking that because each person has a certain amount of balls, eventually you'd have to throw the friendly ones and give people points. But this makes sense. I'll add it. thanks!

On 5/27/2023 at 3:34 PM, Treamayne said:

Lost 13 points instead? or deduct 13 points from the throw's score?

Deduct 13. 

 

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 5/14/2023 at 1:13 PM, The Sibling said:

- make sure that they don't contradict each other

On 5/11/2023 at 11:58 AM, The Sibling said:

  Hide contents

 

When you throw your ball, the closer to the middle that it is thrown, the more points your get. The center ring is 300 points, then 175, then 150, 125, 100. If your ball lands in it's own colour, you get an extra 50 points. If your ball lands in the colour opposite to it, you get -50 points. 

If your ball lands on a tile with another ball of the same colour, you get 50 points, unless there is a ball of the opposite colour, in which case you get -50 points.

Mixing - if there are two balls on a tile of a different color, and you throw a third one which color is the one you would get from mixing colors of those 2 balls, you get 100 points, also you ignore all negative points you would get in that throw and other players can't use that color in their next throw.

You should get 10 points if you land your ball in a section of it's opposite colour. 

If you throw without looking at the board, and gain over 500 points, you lose 13 points. This is a stupid rule but maybe people would use it as a way to show off, like "I can win even without looking" and people wanted to discourage this so they made this rule.

Purple : Dark sphere : The next throw is made with eyes closed. 

 

The first 2 lines I quoted contradict the 4th line, and same with the last 2. I wanted to suggest that the mixing is based on the section orientation -> Yellow and pink make peach, while opposites make nothing (2 directions) and even distances have 2 options (yellow and red make orange or peach) rather based on actual color combination, as mixing with different mediums produces different effects.

[The Sibling she/her]

4 hours ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

The first 2 lines I quoted contradict the 4th line, and same with the last 2. I wanted to suggest that the mixing is based on the section orientation -> Yellow and pink make peach, while opposites make nothing (2 directions) and even distances have 2 options (yellow and red make orange or peach) rather based on actual color combination, as mixing with different mediums produces different effects.

Thanks for reading it! I understand the first thing you are saying, and I'll change it in the OP, but the second bit about mixing, I'm not sure I understand. Is there any way you can re-explain? Sorry, I'm just confused. 

@stormform wert and I made a mini Tarachin board and played with nerf balls. It was pretty fun although we had to read the rules, like, every two minutes. I wish we could make a big version but I think it would be hard. I think that wert is going to post the pictures soon. 

We found a few mistakes in the rules while we were playing, but I think that everything that we found is fixed. I made a list of all the amount of balls that each person got, but I forget it. I think wert took a picture of it so I can add it later. 

We should also figure out Zahel's solo version. That one might actually be easier to make in real size because it's smaller.

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, The Sibling said:

I understand the first thing you are saying, and I'll change it in the OP, but the second bit about mixing, I'm not sure I understand. Is there any way you can re-explain? Sorry, I'm just confused.

@IlstrawberrySeed likely means the differences between RYB, RGB. and CMYK:

Traditional Color wheel (paints, crafts, most physical media):

Spoiler

This is what most kids are taught in school - the ol' "yellow and blue make green" - which is true, except when it's not. Most physical media (such as painting) use this color wheel and a great Hue and Color Harmonic resource is the Pantone Color Tables which can get very precise in shades and contain a lot of hue information.

But then there's the RGB spectrum (Light)

Spoiler

This is how wavelengths of light interact (either constructive or destructive interference) changing colors with overlapping spectrums of light (one of the reasons behind the "black and while color debates - but I won't digress too much here). You can see from the Venn Diagram, that White Light is all other color spectrums overlapped (which is why it can create the prism effect when spit in the Godking's Breath Aura) and, here, Yellow and blue do not make green. In fact Green and Red make yellow. . .

It's fairly easy to check out some of the differences (at least on windows) - simply open up MS Paint, click on "Edit Colors" and you can see the RGB model in use by clicking or manually adjusting the RGB/HSL (Hue, Saturation, Lumins) values. More advanced programs like CorelDraw will let you see this for all color models.

Then there is the CMYK Spectrum:

Spoiler

Some physical media (depending on types of pigments providing the color), such as nearly all ink and laser printers in modern use, actually use the CMYK model. Instead of the base primary colors being Red, Yellow and Blue; they are Cyan, Magenta and Yellow (and you add black to create shades and hues, rather than white).

Since the game's balls aren't literally "mixing" any colors - the rules would have to define a pairing as RYM, RGB, or CMYK; or possibly account for them all such as:

• Mixing - if there are two balls on a tile of a different color, and you throw a third one which color is the one you would get from mixing colors of those 2 balls, you get 100 points for each color model the trio match (i.e. Thrown Ball 3 is the "mix" of Game-Balls 1 and 2; but Balls 1 and 3 also would mix to make Ball 2 in a different color model - 200 points)

Hope that helps.

 

 

[The Sibling she/her]

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Since the game's balls aren't literally "mixing" any colors - the rules would have to define a pairing as RYM, RGB, or CMYK; or possibly account for them all such as:

•  

Oh ok I get it. Why don't we say that "mixing" is when you throw the ball that's the colour in between the other two colours on the weird 10 colour colour wheel that we're using as the board. 

[Treamayne]

8 minutes ago, The Sibling said:

Oh ok I get it. Why don't we say that "mixing" is when you throw the ball that's the colour in between the other two colours on the weird 10 colour colour wheel that we're using as the board. 

Since Tarachin's rules are supposed to be complex, you could even have the scores change by how close to center it is. For example (using the top as "1" and moving clockwise):

• Balls matching one and three are in the same square - if you match it with a "2" ball - 50 points
• Balls matching one and four are in the same square - matching with "2" or "3" - 75 points (since there is no "center")
• Balls matching two and six are in the same square - if you match with "3" or "5" - 50 points, but matching with "4" - 100 points (because it's "center")
• etc. 

 Use whatever works best for what you have going on - I was just trying to explain what I thought @IlstrawberrySeed might have meant 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[The Sibling she/her]

2 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

• Balls matching one and three are in the same square - if you match it with a "2" ball - 50 points
• Balls matching one and four are in the same square - matching with "2" or "3" - 75 points (since there is no "center")
• Balls matching two and six are in the same square - if you match with "3" or "5" - 50 points, but matching with "4" - 100 points (because it's "center")
• etc. 

This works! It's the perfect level of pointlessly complicated. I just need to figure out how to phrase it when I write it in the rules. I kind of want to write out a rulebook with pictures for examples to make the game easier to learn. 

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, The Sibling said:

This works! It's the perfect level of pointlessly complicated. I just need to figure out how to phrase it when I write it in the rules. I kind of want to write out a rulebook with pictures for examples to make the game easier to learn. 

Probably something about the score being proportional to the distance of colors mixed. Here's my idea - visual:

Spoiler

• One Step - 50 Points (example: Orange/Red matched by a Peach throw)
• Three Step - 100 Points (example: Green/Purple matched by an Azure throw)
• Five Step - 150 Points (example: Green/Purple matched by a Peach Throw in a green, purple or pink section)
  • Note: Reverse arcs may only be attempted if the ball pair is inside a section matching a ball color
• Seven Step - 300 Points (example: Orange/Red matched by an Azure Throw in an orange, red or azure section)
  • Note: Reverse arcs may only be attempted if the ball pair is inside a section matching a ball color

PS: I noticed your ball color list had an error:

On 5/11/2023 at 2:58 PM, The Sibling said:

going clockwise the colours are : Orange, peach, red, pink, purple, azure, blue, turquoise, green, and yellow.

Azure, by definition, is a shade of Sky Blue, so it would have to fall between blue and turquoise.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Treamayne
Update

[IlstrawberrySeed]

6 hours ago, Treamayne said:

@IlstrawberrySeed likely means the differences between RYB, RGB. and CMYK:

Traditional Color wheel (paints, crafts, most physical media):

  Hide contents

This is what most kids are taught in school - the ol' "yellow and blue make green" - which is true, except when it's not. Most physical media (such as painting) use this color wheel and a great Hue and Color Harmonic resource is the Pantone Color Tables which can get very precise in shades and contain a lot of hue information.

But then there's the RGB spectrum (Light)

  Hide contents

This is how wavelengths of light interact (either constructive or destructive interference) changing colors with overlapping spectrums of light (one of the reasons behind the "black and while color debates - but I won't digress too much here). You can see from the Venn Diagram, that White Light is all other color spectrums overlapped (which is why it can create the prism effect when spit in the Godking's Breath Aura) and, here, Yellow and blue do not make green. In fact Green and Red make yellow. . .

It's fairly easy to check out some of the differences (at least on windows) - simply open up MS Paint, click on "Edit Colors" and you can see the RGB model in use by clicking or manually adjusting the RGB/HSL (Hue, Saturation, Lumins) values. More advanced programs like CorelDraw will let you see this for all color models.

Then there is the CMYK Spectrum:

  Hide contents

Some physical media (depending on types of pigments providing the color), such as nearly all ink and laser printers in modern use, actually use the CMYK model. Instead of the base primary colors being Red, Yellow and Blue; they are Cyan, Magenta and Yellow (and you add black to create shades and hues, rather than white).

Since the game's balls aren't literally "mixing" any colors - the rules would have to define a pairing as RYM, RGB, or CMYK; or possibly account for them all such as:

• Mixing - if there are two balls on a tile of a different color, and you throw a third one which color is the one you would get from mixing colors of those 2 balls, you get 100 points for each color model the trio match (i.e. Thrown Ball 3 is the "mix" of Game-Balls 1 and 2; but Balls 1 and 3 also would mix to make Ball 2 in a different color model - 200 points)

Hope that helps.

 

 

Precicely the concern I was bringing up, though I hadn't heard of CMYK before.

2 hours ago, The Sibling said:

Oh ok I get it. Why don't we say that "mixing" is when you throw the ball that's the colour in between the other two colours on the weird 10 colour colour wheel that we're using as the board. 

This is what I was suggesting, but isn't pointlessly complex enough.

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Since Tarachin's rules are supposed to be complex, you could even have the scores change by how close to center it is. For example (using the top as "1" and moving clockwise):

• Balls matching one and three are in the same square - if you match it with a "2" ball - 50 points
• Balls matching one and four are in the same square - matching with "2" or "3" - 75 points (since there is no "center")
• Balls matching two and six are in the same square - if you match with "3" or "5" - 50 points, but matching with "4" - 100 points (because it's "center")
• etc. 

 Use whatever works best for what you have going on - I was just trying to explain what I thought @IlstrawberrySeed might have meant 

Prettymuch. Note that I know longer think this (better ideas have since been posted) but for clarity's sake,

• Balls matching one and three are in the same square - if you match it with a "2" ball - 50 points
• Balls matching one and four are in the same square - matching with "2" or "3" - 25 points (since there is no "center")
• Balls matching two and six are in the same square - if you match with "3" or "5" - 0 points, but matching with "4" - 50 points (because it's "center")

I DO suggest the points being a uselessly complex mathmatical formula based on the tile it's in, colors used, and multi-splitting (ex, if balls 1, 3, & 4 are in a square, then ball 7 would split 1/3 & 1/4. [but gets -50 from opposite], but also constitures the mix of all 3). I'll think on one, but a uselessly complex math formula seems more complex than a bunch of case rules.

Edited June 8, 2023 by IlstrawberrySeed