Long Game 95: The Fire of Ado's Light

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, DrakeMarshall said:

Sir what do u even mean it wasn't wise, rn I have a grand total of 2 legal moves and both are gonna checkmate me >>

Pawn takes C3

Spoiler

I haven't been thinking too far ahead - just sort of vague plans, as my head's sort of a mush from the meds. So like I did get the sense it's probably possible to achieve a choke for mate by pushing the pawn and it's better not to let up pressure, but you'd get to swipe my two rooks (prolly) and I wasn't sure if I could fully achieve it before I felt the pain of the rook loss but til bardaga!

drake - kas
1. d4 - Nf6
2. f3 - g6
3. e4 - d5
4. Nc3 - e6
5. e5 - Nfd7
5. Nh3 - c5
6. Bb5 - cxd4
7. Qxd4 - Nc6
8. Bxc6 - bxc6
9. g4 - Qh4+
10. Nf2 - Bc5
11. Qd2 - Nxe5
12. Qe2 - Ba6
13. Qxe5 - Qxf2+
14. Kd1 - Qxf3+
15. Kd2 - d4
16. Qxh8+ - Kd7
17. Qxa8 - dxc3+
18. bxc3 - Qe2++

Thanks for playing >:P

Legendary clash at last?

 

2 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

sigh guys expect same level of activity as my previous 2-3 games, really thought i'd be more free after may but work keeps piling up >>

RIP, all the best with RL bhai.

6 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sir what do u even mean it wasn't wise, rn I have a grand total of 2 legal moves and both are gonna checkmate me >>

Pawn takes C3

 

STINK's on to us!! quickly, we must deploy the emergency strategy!!

uh

we have one of those right

IDK bro, I'm on vacation, everything's peaceful ^^

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

8 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

  Hide contents

Sir what do u even mean it wasn't wise, rn I have a grand total of 2 legal moves and both are gonna checkmate me >>

Pawn takes C3

 

STINK's on to us!! quickly, we must deploy the emergency strategy!!

uh

we have one of those right

 

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

  Hide contents

I haven't been thinking too far ahead - just sort of vague plans, as my head's sort of a mush from the meds. So like I did get the sense it's probably possible to achieve a choke for mate by pushing the pawn and it's better not to let up pressure, but you'd get to swipe my two rooks (prolly) and I wasn't sure if I could fully achieve it before I felt the pain of the rook loss but til bardaga!

drake - kas
1. d4 - Nf6
2. f3 - g6
3. e4 - d5
4. Nc3 - e6
5. e5 - Nfd7
5. Nh3 - c5
6. Bb5 - cxd4
7. Qxd4 - Nc6
8. Bxc6 - bxc6
9. g4 - Qh4+
10. Nf2 - Bc5
11. Qd2 - Nxe5
12. Qe2 - Ba6
13. Qxe5 - Qxf2+
14. Kd1 - Qxf3+
15. Kd2 - d4
16. Qxh8+ - Kd7
17. Qxa8 - dxc3+
18. bxc3 - Qe2++

Thanks for playing >:P

Legendary clash at last?

 

RIP, all the best with RL bhai.

IDK bro, I'm on vacation, everything's peaceful ^^

*raises hand* Hi, I’m your back-up plan!

*something relevant to the game*

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

7 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

sigh guys expect same level of activity as my previous 2-3 games, really thought i'd be more free after may but work keeps piling up >>

rip, life do be like that >> good luck

5 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

  Hide contents

I haven't been thinking too far ahead - just sort of vague plans, as my head's sort of a mush from the meds. So like I did get the sense it's probably possible to achieve a choke for mate by pushing the pawn and it's better not to let up pressure, but you'd get to swipe my two rooks (prolly) and I wasn't sure if I could fully achieve it before I felt the pain of the rook loss but til bardaga!

drake - kas
1. d4 - Nf6
2. f3 - g6
3. e4 - d5
4. Nc3 - e6
5. e5 - Nfd7
5. Nh3 - c5
6. Bb5 - cxd4
7. Qxd4 - Nc6
8. Bxc6 - bxc6
9. g4 - Qh4+
10. Nf2 - Bc5
11. Qd2 - Nxe5
12. Qe2 - Ba6
13. Qxe5 - Qxf2+
14. Kd1 - Qxf3+
15. Kd2 - d4
16. Qxh8+ - Kd7
17. Qxa8 - dxc3+
18. bxc3 - Qe2++

Thanks for playing >:P

Legendary clash at last?

 

Spoiler

Yeahh I should have thought through my attack through a little better or something lol

One more move and I could have chained together a bunch of checks against you while taking out other pieces, but my king's position was just way too rubbish for you not to have a checkmate

Well played

Just now, TheAlpha929 said:

*raises hand* Hi, I’m your back-up plan!

*something relevant to the game*

Oh perfect yes this is very timely!

what is this "game-relevance" you speak of

whatever it is, I'm sure it's extremely distracting

[Kasimir he/him]

12 minutes ago, TheAlpha929 said:

 

*raises hand* Hi, I’m your back-up plan!

*something relevant to the game*

Artistically lacking but One Premium Meme(TM) with all the ducks I'm not giving

Spoiler

@DrakeMarshall:

Spoiler

Same to you, well played

I think we both basically just went super reckless, because yeah I saw the possibility for a kill chain, just decided to risk it all. But tbf sometimes gambity/bold is the way to play rather than safe and slow chipping away  I think if at any point I couldn't sustain it and you took tempo, yeah you'dve killed me for it.

 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

3 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

One Premium Meme(TM) with all the ducks

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

welp I'm reasonably happy with the outcome

I kinda figured you might be a bit more and better trained at chess than me lol

it was close enough to be fun though!

 

[Kasimir he/him]

9 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

  Hide contents

 

  Hide contents

welp I'm reasonably happy with the outcome

I kinda figured you might be a bit more and better trained at chess than me lol

it was close enough to be fun though!

 

Spoiler

That's a lot of ducks

Did they all run away from me???

Sort of? I don't feel I did that extensive training, but my gf's gotten into chess so I've found myself having to get back into shape. 

Either way, it was a tight fight and we both did kayana which is probably in my book fun and worth it >:P

Meme Version #2:

Spoiler

Not much of an artist, for sure, so I'm shrugging this off as a quick paint job  

[Turtle]

im putting yalls game into stockfish one second

i should be doing homeworm but oh well

edit: oh its my favorite ducks!!! i actually saw that video before i saw the lotr movies

edit 2: ive come to the conclusion idk how to analyze chess games with stockfish.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Turtle

[Kasimir he/him]

28 minutes ago, Turtle said:

edit 2: ive come to the conclusion idk how to analyze chess games with stockfish.

Because Stockfish isn't really a substitute for a solid grasp of the basics, though I guess I dunno how strongly I feel about this. Position play, trade value, opportunities, all of that I think needs to be something you grasp. Opportunities, e.g. can you open forks? Can you force zugzwang? Can you set up an x-ray/pin/skewer?

Off the top of my head, for instance: any move that puts a knight on a or h file had better have a pretty good justification, because sidelining a knight usually is a pretty bad move positionally. But maybe doing so paves the way for an attack on a weakly-developed side of Black's game, which is where the opportunities weigh in. Stockfish helps you assess what the options are. But then the other downside to Stockfish is that people don't usually really play the way the machines do I guess.

Stockfish will give you a number to weight how good a move is for white and black but it won't really tell you why the rating is the way it is, and it'll change with Stockfish depth. 

IDK I've found it less helpful than the books at this juncture but I usually tend to prefer theory anyway, I know.

[Mat he/him]

I'd lose to you guys at chess so bad

[The Unknown Order he/him]

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I'd lose to you guys at chess so bad

Spoiler

Nf3?

 

[Turtle]

6 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Opportunities, e.g. can you open forks? Can you force zugzwang? Can you set up an x-ray/pin/skewer?

WAIT THATS HOW YOU SPELL THAT??

you see, the only things i know about chess are from my brother. so yeah, i can set up a skewer or pin and do forks n stuff, but do i understand chess very well? nope! i know nothing at all abput theory except the first 6 moves of the french defense. i can beat someone random but my brothers the one who does tournaments and stuff. trade value i understand vaguely. ive got no idea what position play is. i do know my brother hates bishops with a burning passion.

[Kasimir he/him]

7 minutes ago, Turtle said:

WAIT THATS HOW YOU SPELL THAT??

you see, the only things i know about chess are from my brother. so yeah, i can set up a skewer or pin and do forks n stuff, but do i understand chess very well? nope! i know nothing at all abput theory except the first 6 moves of the french defense. i can beat someone random but my brothers the one who does tournaments and stuff. trade value i understand vaguely. ive got no idea what position play is. i do know my brother hates bishops with a burning passion.

Yeah. There, you have some of the basics. But again, tbf, I might be biased - back when I was training, my first instructor was not a fan of theory. He had one job and that was to train a team to win at the upcoming tournament so he more or less drilled us in certain openings and responses and insisted we memorise them. Which kinda took the fun out of it. I did pick up some of the theory by osmosis and reading on my own, but also when I was called for nationals, I think they were better about teaching theory though anyway I was never very good. Got beaten by a preschooler lol. And there ended my dabbling in chess because I had exams :|

Edited to add:

17 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I'd lose to you guys at chess so bad

Fifth and Devo curbstomp me  Tbh I'd be so interested to see Drake take on Fifth as I think it would be an epic matchup.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Kasimir

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

  Hide contents

That's a lot of ducks

Did they all run away from me???

Sort of? I don't feel I did that extensive training, but my gf's gotten into chess so I've found myself having to get back into shape. 

Either way, it was a tight fight and we both did kayana which is probably in my book fun and worth it >:P

Meme Version #2:

  Reveal hidden contents

Not much of an artist, for sure, so I'm shrugging this off as a quick paint job  

MY EYES

EDIT: ...why didn't you do your own :thinking:

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Off the top of my head, for instance: any move that puts a knight on a or h file had better have a pretty good justification, because sidelining a knight usually is a pretty bad move positionally.

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Fifth and Devo curbstomp me  Tbh I'd be so interested to see Drake take on Fifth as I think it would be an epic matchup.

Epic's a tall order but entertaining? Quite possibly.

Edited June 9, 2023 by DrakeMarshall

[Amanuensis he/him]

Friendly reminder to everyone that there’s a bit over 6 hours left in the turn to submit your actions

[Kasimir he/him]

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

MY EYES

EDIT: ...why didn't you do your own :thinking:

Epic's a tall order but entertaining? Quite possibly.

Spoiler

Sorry, can't help it, it's the one thing I retain even after all those years because every single time I put a knight on a or h my instructor would yell at me after the match to justify it to him, regardless of the match result >>

I have totally been irredeemably scarred by this!  

Given how both of you are like...

 

[Archer he/him]

I'm struggling with some weather induced headaches today so this might be my only post for a bit.
-What does VOCALS and the location Roshar tell us? Anything? 
-A quiet rollover makes sense since, at most, two people were very invested in the outcome if an elim was under pressure. And if someone was protecting TBB, they probably voted me earlier.
-Certainly wouldn't V!read TBB after they were very dedicated to self pressing.
-I'm leaning towards the guess that the baddies worldhopped yesterday. Firstly, there's a psychological pressure to be on top of things, and passively not submitting an action feels wrong. It felt wrong to me in a game with so many rules that I wasn't doing anything, and I'm not in the hot seat.
-They have 4 investiture already, they don't need more. Although they can contribute to releasing a Shard, it's a drop in the bucket. Hopping gives them people to network with and valuable abilities.
-I think we can rule out some destinations based on which involve Night actions. Those that give them Day actions are appealing. Anyone want to claim their location so we can read ya based on it?
-I've decided to backtrack my e!TJ read. The way they came at me is too aggressive for someone trying to lay low. Turtle has said a lot of nothing and Araris is uncharacteristically unremarkable. Would vote either.

[Turtle]

16 minutes ago, Archer said:

-What does VOCALS and the location Roshar tell us? Anything? 

does the name matter at all or is it just flavor? Roshar=random investiture, so im wondering if it might have something to do with the autonomous sudden death wincon?

Quote

• If the number of Charges of Autonomy’s Investiture exceeds the number of all other Shards’ total Charges of Investiture among all non-Autonomous players at the end of any turn, and there is a living Autonomous player, the Autonomous wins the game.

I suppose this only matters if there's a limited number of charges of investiture, which i'm pretty sure there arent. possibly they want to try and get lucky rnging autonomous investiture? i think i need to reread the rules of avatars some more before i continue to speculate on this.

edit: also the autonomous sudden death wincon is worrying to me, because we have no real metric of how many charges of investiture there are and who has them. i think using them immediatly might be the best way to go about dealing with it?

Edited June 9, 2023 by Turtle

[Kasimir he/him]

23 minutes ago, Archer said:

-What does VOCALS and the location Roshar tell us? Anything? 

VOCALS just said they were there to join the party doc, given how much I was advertising going there to chill and inviting everyone along, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised that/if Autonomy just didn't want 

There's a chance Autonomy might've wanted to see what was happening in case there was game-relevant discussion on Roshar. But I'm just chilling at the highstorm raves so I've not really bothered antagonising VOCALS and am not in the mood to do so/try to solve for their identity.

8 minutes ago, Turtle said:

edit: also the autonomous sudden death wincon is worrying to me, because we have no real metric of how many charges of investiture there are and who has them. i think using them immediatly might be the best way to go about dealing with it?

In my view, if you get a bunch of them, hop to somewhere like Scadrial or Braize ASAP and burn. Sel not a bad shout either - Scadrial lets you burn two at once, Braize lets you burn three (!!!), and Sel lets you do a swap so the net effect is a differential of 2. 

The one worry I have and the reason I mention the worlds is because technically if Autonomy is gunning for this, they can probably outproduce your burn rate. But not sure.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Kasimir

[The Unknown Order he/him]

25 minutes ago, Archer said:

I'm struggling with some weather induced headaches today so this might be my only post for a bit.
-What does VOCALS and the location Roshar tell us? Anything? 
-A quiet rollover makes sense since, at most, two people were very invested in the outcome if an elim was under pressure. And if someone was protecting TBB, they probably voted me earlier.
-Certainly wouldn't V!read TBB after they were very dedicated to self pressing.
-I'm leaning towards the guess that the baddies worldhopped yesterday. Firstly, there's a psychological pressure to be on top of things, and passively not submitting an action feels wrong. It felt wrong to me in a game with so many rules that I wasn't doing anything, and I'm not in the hot seat.
-They have 4 investiture already, they don't need more. Although they can contribute to releasing a Shard, it's a drop in the bucket. Hopping gives them people to network with and valuable abilities.
-I think we can rule out some destinations based on which involve Night actions. Those that give them Day actions are appealing. Anyone want to claim their location so we can read ya based on it?
-I've decided to backtrack my e!TJ read. The way they came at me is too aggressive for someone trying to lay low. Turtle has said a lot of nothing and Araris is uncharacteristically unremarkable. Would vote either.

Bold mine. 

Well, Roshar and music have a pretty deep connections, and I could see someone naming their Avatar purely for that reason. But for some reason the name VOCALS feels familiar to me.

I'm still in Silverlight. I would like to get Odium, but if the dice don't roll in my favor, I might leave. I am pretty interested in the party doc.

[Kasimir he/him]

33 minutes ago, Archer said:

-I'm leaning towards the guess that the baddies worldhopped yesterday. Firstly, there's a psychological pressure to be on top of things, and passively not submitting an action feels wrong. It felt wrong to me in a game with so many rules that I wasn't doing anything, and I'm not in the hot seat.

Actually, this is an interesting hot take. As you can tell, most people did not worldhop. And this is a Shard game with Intent Conversion. I don't for a second believe it's not remotely anticipatable that most people who signed up for this game would want to try very hard for a Shard and Intent Convert since that's kind of the whole point.

I do think sitting on the Shards is better for Village because of SD, but let's face it, it was never a psychologically reasonable expectation. Anticipating that there's any worthwhile networking to be doing when there are still fifteen Shards to be claimed is a prediction so weird I'm wondering what mindset you're approaching this game from.

Wait. What am I doing. I am not supposed to...grrrr.

[The Unknown Order he/him]

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

fifteen Shards to be claimed

Fourteen. Someone's spending too much time participating in the Raring Roshar Rave. That or you've been enjoying too much violet wine. Did VOCALS bust out the Horneater White yet or are they saving it for later?

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, The Bald Brandon said:

Fourteen. Someone's spending too much time participating in the Raring Roshar Rave. That or you've been enjoying too much violet wine. Did VOCALS bust out the Horneater White yet or are they saving it for later?

Yeah my bad, it's been a very good rave  With recreational substances and that thumpin' bass line!

Well, they humoured me and did that Freddie Mercury-David Bowie vocals from Under Pressure which is also a pretty good rave song if dated.

Tempted to ask if VOCALS can do that DotA song :eyes:

Spoiler

 

 

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

I am sad that my job is making me miss all the chess excitement, but if Drake wants a game with me, I’ll let him have the white pieces  

re: me “slouching” that’s pretty much due to me not being able to be on the Shard during my twelve-hour shifts except for one brief break, so yeah, quality of analysis will be reduced (and much of my energy this game is being directed into understanding rule interactions and making sure I’m doing legal things that will help the 17S and not blow up in my face  

[Archer he/him]

34 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Actually, this is an interesting hot take. As you can tell, most people did not worldhop. And this is a Shard game with Intent Conversion. I don't for a second believe it's not remotely anticipatable that most people who signed up for this game would want to try very hard for a Shard and Intent Convert since that's kind of the whole point.

I do think sitting on the Shards is better for Village because of SD, but let's face it, it was never a psychologically reasonable expectation. Anticipating that there's any worthwhile networking to be doing when there are still fifteen Shards to be claimed is a prediction so weird I'm wondering what mindset you're approaching this game from.

Wait. What am I doing. I am not supposed to...grrrr.

Not coincidentally, most people are 17Sers. They don't have a stockpile of investiture to use on the other worlds and they don't have Super Special abilities that will allow them to survive deep into the game and that give them other responsibilities besides personal ambition. So my theory is villagers stay put, baddies get a move on. The, at best, 1/4 shot at getting a Shard, made worse by lack of coordination (might not even hit the threshold), isn't worth the benefits of travel to a baddies, imo. But I'm interested in what other people think about this. You've got to admit that a small segment of people doing something differently, in this case worldhopping, might be revealing 

[Kasimir he/him]

43 minutes ago, Archer said:

Not coincidentally, most people are 17Sers. They don't have a stockpile of investiture to use on the other worlds and they don't have Super Special abilities that will allow them to survive deep into the game and that give them other responsibilities besides personal ambition. So my theory is villagers stay put, baddies get a move on. The, at best, 1/4 shot at getting a Shard, made worse by lack of coordination (might not even hit the threshold), isn't worth the benefits of travel to a baddies, imo. But I'm interested in what other people think about this. You've got to admit that a small segment of people doing something differently, in this case worldhopping, might be revealing 

So how are they going to find each other when there's...so many Shardworlds? You'd think the obvious answer would be they'd hightail to Roshar given the advertisement, but it's just me there. They're better off getting/trying for Prudence and PMing players they believe are likely to be candidates for Elims, because there's no chance of having a Villager see this there.

The bolded assumption is still very strong, because hello, more of the team trying for a Shard >>> less of the team. Your odds are better that way, especially since you can coordinate and N0 showed there was a copious lack of Village cooperation.

I'm not objecting to the idea that it may be revealing, and I think it's worth pointing out Alpha and Stink both claimed to have worldhopped. I'm objecting to the idea that this doesn't seem to have very much basis as an operating assumption.

Edited to add: Furthermore, suppose your theory is right. If all Villagers stay put, isn't it functionally the case that the Elims are simply not going to claim to not be on Silverlight? Who's going to rat them out as lying? So then what's the point of your theory?

Edited to add 2:

1 hour ago, Archer said:

-I've decided to backtrack my e!TJ read. The way they came at me is too aggressive for someone trying to lay low. Turtle has said a lot of nothing and Araris is uncharacteristically unremarkable. Would vote either.

 

• TJ's willingness to retract fundamentally a good look IMO. Weak but there you have it. Not seeing signs of awareness that Hoid and Khriss and Bavadin start with 4 charges. Weak because TJ rules derp is normal.
• Not sure I'm fond of TBB's assertiveness - feel E!TBB tends to be more willing to be a bit more decisive about his reads. Comparing how much he waffled in LG94 to LG90 (Araris's E!TBB game I think.)
• Extremely unfond of how Sart has slipped under the radar. Sart should not be getting away with this little public thought into the game - I remember he was a very lethal overlooked Hoid in QF4 (no one @ me I know I'm decrepit). Not seeing anything at all indicative of Hoid's V meta.
• Slight squintingly + on Alpha for QF66 'one SP' issues - Alpha's claim had that sort of vibe, but I'm taking it back for a lack of willingness to solve, so it washes out. (Yes hypocritical I know.)
• Elan / Fifth / Drake / Xino et al peripherality not good - yes Fifth, I know and get it, but I also can't simply remove you from PoE that way.
• Don't disagree with Archer's Turtle read, there's probably something instructive with going back to LG90 and LG91 to re-read (I think? There's a good V/E Turtle comparison to be had) but CBA to do, I'm at a highstorm rave.
• MR56 vibes from STINK. Don't really feel have a good handle on STINK one way or another, but that's STINK for you.
• Don't fully disagree with the Mat reads but think the correct comparator here is Mobborn!Mat and I don't really recall how Mat played in that game. Mat keeps emphasising this is a faction game which is a bit hmm given the set-up of the Village wincon functionally and I think comparing his play to LG94 is just fundamentally a mistake because his Mobborn game is probably a better comparator if he's Hoid/Khriss/Bavadin i.e. not Village. Also CBA to do, I'm chilling.
• I hate doing this but good vibes from JNV because Village meta #why
• Withholding Archer read pending further confirmation.
• Look no one said I told you so I CAN'T LIVE LIKE THIS OK JUST LET ME SAY A BIT AND THEN I'LL TRY TO BE GOOD AND STOP TRYING TO THINK ABOUT THIS GAME OK. 
• Ok back to highstorm raves.

Edited to add 3: Oh right, Szeth. Noticing marked deviation from LG91 V!Szeth and QF66 V!Szeth. Probably MR61 as well but my memory of that is less fresh. Considering potential E!Szeth world.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Kasimir