Long Game 95: The Fire of Ado's Light

[Elandera she/her]

Xino

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

So am I, I just loaded up the DLC too!

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Spoiler

What game is this? The art style puts me kinda in mind of Mount & Blade

if i were in a votey mood i feel like i'd join DeTess rn but

i will not

 

[Kasimir he/him]

7 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

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What game is this? The art style puts me kinda in mind of Mount & Blade

if i were in a votey mood i feel like i'd join DeTess rn but

i will not

 

Spoiler

Usually gives Wyrm a laugh when we roll Kazimierz on the AI and then it's Kasimir v. Kazimierz grudge match, with plenty of discrimination!

Why join DeTess?

 

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Yeah, I'm down with that, as I believe lack of WiM is a significant E!Alpha tell.

It also happens to be an “Alpha wants to know why he joined this scary scary game and he realized he is still so new that he doesn’t know what he’s doing” tell

I’m scared of this game because of the complexity and such, and I was afraid of LG94 because I was an elim for the first time and didn’t know what to do.

I wish I had more experience and instinct in SE, but that’s why I’m here! Just tryna figure out the game.

I don’t have any distinct reads or thoughts (heck, I barely even know the rules that apply to me, and rn there aren’t a lot). I’ll just keep my eyes open, and hopefully by C3 my head will be in the game.

[Archer he/him]

Welcome, Walin! We were wondering whether wacky weirdos would wander whenceward. 

16 minutes ago, TheAlpha929 said:

It also happens to be an “Alpha wants to know why he joined this scary scary game and he realized he is still so new that he doesn’t know what he’s doing” tell

I’m scared of this game because of the complexity and such, and I was afraid of LG94 because I was an elim for the first time and didn’t know what to do.

I wish I had more experience and instinct in SE, but that’s why I’m here! Just tryna figure out the game.

I don’t have any distinct reads or thoughts (heck, I barely even know the rules that apply to me, and rn there aren’t a lot). I’ll just keep my eyes open, and hopefully by C3 my head will be in the game.

Unfortunately you screwed yourself with your elim play last game. You've got a meta for going quiet as an elim now, so in the absence of a reason to trust you, you're more likely evil than not to me right now. In a conversion game, it's especially important to regularly re-establish village credibility 

-It doesn't take a Wax to figure out who suspected Sart. But would Ruin be fool enough to announce their intentions? That felt like a JNV shot tbh

-I'll accuse Turtle of hedging their reads to an extreme degree, making it a performative exercise 

-Turtle

[Kasimir he/him]

37 minutes ago, Archer said:

Unfortunately you screwed yourself with your elim play last game. You've got a meta for going quiet as an elim now, so in the absence of a reason to trust you, you're more likely evil than not to me right now. In a conversion game, it's especially important to regularly re-establish village credibility 

I hesitate to say this, as I also hesitated in LG94 as I generally don't want to really be saying that I don't believe a player if they're struggling to get into the game.

I will note though that your team actively encouraged Alpha to hide the E!lack of WiM by appealing to playstyle changes and the fact the game is different/trying things out, so yeah, I'm not necessarily sure I am reassured either.

I am willing to give Alpha a bit of time, and would be interested if Alpha can give us three reads (any player, doesn't matter).

That being said, I am also not particularly attached to whether Alpha does survive this cycle or not. I am not full-Kasing this game and don't intend to, highstorm raves have been great, the DAOist tRAVEling circus is moving on to the next world, hopefully Drake joins at some point, despite my constant inability to not solve I guess but I'd highlight QF66 (short game anyway) as an instance of V!Alpha getting accused of lack of interest in solving but slowly building up interest over the game.

Edited to add:

To be clear - the point of the last paragraph is that I do believe that V!Alpha demonstrates that WiM by engaging with the game in small ways. The fact this is not happening makes me feel a bit eh.

@TheAlpha929 I guess this is how I'd put it. Yes, this is a faction game. If you're a Villager, this translates to: extremely complicated game with two Elim teams and an SK (for now.) The two Elim teams do not know who each other are. All of the rest of the rules are window dressing. The beating heart of a SE game continues to be in the thread and this goes back to the same set of core skills/things we do in every game: read posts, analyse votes, try to understand if the player is coming from a Villager mindset, or (in this case), not-Village mindset. Contra Mat and Fadran, I do not particularly care if a player is our fancy SK, Elim Team #1 or Elim Team #2. My wincon requires them all to be dead so it's that simple for me.

There are complicating factors, but at core, treating this like any other game when you look at the Day thread is a good starting point, and you've definitely been able to do this in your past Village games. If you are genuinely feeling overwhelmed, bracket all the rules for a moment and just take a good hard look at D1 (well, Nights too but at the very least, D1) and go from there.

Edited to add #2: Archer engaging in public guessing games over Ruin's identity is interesting. N0 is probably the night with the highest chances of a Villager actually getting the Shard unless the conversion hit first, so it's worth asking what's gained Village-wise by focusing energy on solving for Ruin.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Kasimir

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Usually gives Wyrm a laugh when we roll Kazimierz on the AI and then it's Kasimir v. Kazimierz grudge match, with plenty of discrimination!

Why join DeTess?

 

Spoiler

Man I should've picked up on an AOE reference

This is very funny

 

smhhhh do i really have to >>

I think the profile fits, in terms of Alpha's discussion activity and in terms of who I would consider converting were I in that position

maybe it's too on-the-nose idk, that isn't the sort of thing that'd deter me but depending on who Hoid &| Khriss is maybe it'd scare them off idk, but it's a reasonable starting place

also I just don't like the other votes as much

your vote is ok

Archer's vote is ok

but my gut impulse is that I vibe the most with DeTess' vote

 

Also if I were gonna try and start a new train it'd very likely be on Fadran actually but

again, i will not

 

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, DrakeMarshall said:

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Man I should've picked up on an AOE reference

This is very funny

 

smhhhh do i really have to >>

I think the profile fits, in terms of Alpha's discussion activity and in terms of who I would consider converting were I in that position

maybe it's too on-the-nose idk, that isn't the sort of thing that'd deter me but depending on who Hoid &| Khriss is maybe it'd scare them off idk, but it's a reasonable starting place

also I just don't like the other votes as much

your vote is ok

Archer's vote is ok

but my gut impulse is that I vibe the most with DeTess' vote

 

Also if I were gonna try and start a new train it'd very likely be on Fadran actually but

again, i will not

 

Spoiler

Shame on your TC! >:(

It gets funnier because I favour Poles and Kazimierz is the Poles AI name, so it really is a mirror grudge match >:P

Hmmmmm.

• Still pending on Archer.
• But also, highstorm raves!

Spoiler

 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

7 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

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Shame on your TC! >:(

It gets funnier because I favour Poles and Kazimierz is the Poles AI name, so it really is a mirror grudge match >:P

Hmmmmm.

• Still pending on Archer.
• But also, highstorm raves!

  Hide contents

 

If you did a rave on Braize would it be Brave :thinking:

Spoiler

Not my TC!!

Well, fighting yourself does sometimes tend to make for a good boss match

 

[Kasimir he/him]

Serious question. How much do we care about jailbreaking Shards?

My personal views are that keeping the Village SD wincon allows us to exert serious pressure on the Elims and SK in this game. I'm of the view not everyone will agree because Shard game, fancy Shardic powers and whatever and have never bothered mentioning this for multiple reasons including that it's so psychologically unrealistic I don't even want to talk about it.

But I'm also kind of tired of people complaining that Shards aren't coming out fast enough.

[The Unknown Order he/him]

44 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Serious question. How much do we care about jailbreaking Shards?

My personal views are that keeping the Village SD wincon allows us to exert serious pressure on the Elims and SK in this game. I'm of the view not everyone will agree because Shard game, fancy Shardic powers and whatever and have never bothered mentioning this for multiple reasons including that it's so psychologically unrealistic I don't even want to talk about it.

But I'm also kind of tired of people complaining that Shards aren't coming out fast enough.

I think that once I get a Shard, no more shards should come out of containment .

Is there a list of people who have left Silverlight?

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

5 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I would argue this makes more sense regardless because I expect Hoid and Khriss and Bavadin to all be hiding in the low activity but present/under the radar tier. They're not here to stir controversy though I imagine if they can get off free lynches on the other faction, they will. Probably an asterisk for players like Archer, but regardless, the sweet spot to be is overlooked, rather than obviously inactive.

In light of which:

Szeth.

This is fair, honestly. I slipped in activity last cycle, due to my aforementioned group project, but I should be back now that it’s done.

6 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Not the worst that we have low breaches. Does indicate a chronic lack of coordination, but that's the way these things are, and I'm not opposed to the world in which fewer Shards are out of containment since if we can mow our way through Hoid, Khriss, and Bavadin before too many breach, we can just stuff the last two back and call it a day and SD wincon.

(Dunno how well this plays with Intent Conversion, tbf.)

This feels… optimistic. I don’t think it’s worth the risk — it’ll be harder and harder for villagers to get their hands on Shards late game. Right now, Hoid and Khriss likely both have three people. If they coordinate, it’s already very easy for them to get Shards. I’d prefer that we keep as many of them in village hands as possible — so if we do end up mowing our way through H, K, and B, we don’t have to do extra elim-killing to get the shards contained.

3 hours ago, Archer said:

Unfortunately you screwed yourself with your elim play last game. You've got a meta for going quiet as an elim now, so in the absence of a reason to trust you, you're more likely evil than not to me right now. In a conversion game, it's especially important to regularly re-establish village credibility 

 

where u go occam’s razor

No but seriously, this feels like ignoring the fact that Alpha is relatively new. This is a tricky game; if I had joined this game with Alpha’s level of experience, I’d have gone quiet as well.

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Serious question. How much do we care about jailbreaking Shards?

My personal views are that keeping the Village SD wincon allows us to exert serious pressure on the Elims and SK in this game. I'm of the view not everyone will agree because Shard game, fancy Shardic powers and whatever and have never bothered mentioning this for multiple reasons including that it's so psychologically unrealistic I don't even want to talk about it.

But I'm also kind of tired of people complaining that Shards aren't coming out fast enough.

I feel like you’re missing the fact that if the village has Shards, it’s not that hard for them to put them back in containment lategame. Sure, they can fall into elim hands that way, but they can also fall into elim hands if they’re in containment.

[Kasimir he/him]

30 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

I feel like you’re missing the fact that if the village has Shards, it’s not that hard for them to put them back in containment lategame. Sure, they can fall into elim hands that way, but they can also fall into elim hands if they’re in containment.

The Elims...who will be the only ones conspicously not on any Shardworld but Silverlight in a world where the Village agrees to not actually touch the Shards?

How are they going to coordinate to remove the Shards? Wouldn't they have to know each other's identities first, as the two teams don't communicate? (Leaving Bavadin out as Bav's a more complicated SK without a kill unless Bavadin did get Odium in which case, congrats VOCALS, I guess you're an SK now.)

If it's lategame, why do you need to put them back into containment? Just kill everyone who isn't Village. A Village at that level of consolidation, who can afford to 'just put Shards back into containment', has already effectively won their primary wincon and doesn't have to care about SD wincon. The point of every Shard except Autonomy starting off in containment is that we are insanely close to the Village's SD wincon being fulfilled with the deaths of Bavadin, Khriss, and Hoid. The point about SD wincons is that they're supposed to make other factions act suboptimally to try to stop you from getting too close to them, e.g. us having to dump actions on charges to keep Autonomy from surprising us with SD wincon.

The interesting thing is that both Hoid's SD and Khriss's SD require the Shards to be released (in fact, Khriss's is insanely impracticable because if they have that many Shards, we've lost the plot and the game anyway), so the fact you are extremely attached to the Shards doesn't seem like a good sign to me, but I don't know how much weight to put on that.

37 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

This feels… optimistic. I don’t think it’s worth the risk — it’ll be harder and harder for villagers to get their hands on Shards late game. Right now, Hoid and Khriss likely both have three people. If they coordinate, it’s already very easy for them to get Shards. I’d prefer that we keep as many of them in village hands as possible — so if we do end up mowing our way through H, K, and B, we don’t have to do extra elim-killing to get the shards contained.

How are they going to coordinate? To quote you, this feels...optimistic. Do you literally knock on the door of every player not in your faction and go, "Hey just asking, I think you might be Evil, are you?"

39 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

No but seriously, this feels like ignoring the fact that Alpha is relatively new. This is a tricky game; if I had joined this game with Alpha’s level of experience, I’d have gone quiet as well.

Szeth/Alpha possible E/E?

[Kasimir he/him]

Actually. No.

1 hour ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

No but seriously, this feels like ignoring the fact that Alpha is relatively new. This is a tricky game; if I had joined this game with Alpha’s level of experience, I’d have gone quiet as well.

The more I think about it, the more it feels sincere (even if I think it's the wrong read.) I also think it's a bold read for E!Szeth to make due to fog-of-war, and I'm not sure Szeth seeks to defend a teammate here. Ehhhhh I really don't want to re-read LG91 so I'll just gut this for now and move on.

Szeth

Mat

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

30 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

The Elims...who will be the only ones conspicously not on any Shardworld but Silverlight in a world where the Village agrees to not actually touch the Shards?

If you can convince the village to leave Silverlight en masse today, then sure, that could work. I don’t think that’s likely, but we can try????

30 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

How are they going to coordinate to remove the Shards? Wouldn't they have to know each other's identities first, as the two teams don't communicate? (Leaving Bavadin out as Bav's a more complicated SK without a kill unless Bavadin did get Odium in which case, congrats VOCALS, I guess you're an SK now.)

Coordinate within factions, I mean. Next cycle, both the H and K factions will probably have four members, which — if everyone’s on Silverlight — is essentially a free Shard.

30 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

If it's lategame, why do you need to put them back into containment? Just kill everyone who isn't Village. A Village at that level of consolidation, who can afford to 'just put Shards back into containment', has already effectively won their primary wincon and doesn't have to care about SD wincon. The point of every Shard except Autonomy starting off in containment is that we are insanely close to the Village's SD wincon being fulfilled with the deaths of Bavadin, Khriss, and Hoid. The point about SD wincons is that they're supposed to make other factions act suboptimally to try to stop you from getting too close to them, e.g. us having to dump actions on charges to keep Autonomy from surprising us with SD wincon.

If it’s lategame, then the factions could also be close to outnumber wincons. I think it’s a lot harder to exe converted elims than to exe the faction leaders. Honestly, I just feel like the village alt wincon is so unlikely that we should plan for more realistic scenarios. But in all scenarios, it’s better if the village has more Shards than the elims. I kind of like your “everyone leaves Silverlight” plan, but I don’t know if the village is coordinated enough to pull it off. What might happen instead is half the village leaves, half stays because they want to use Investiture, and most of the elims stay, leaving them with control over the Shards.

 

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

2 hours ago, The Bald Brandon said:

Is there a list of people who have left Silverlight?

I left and went to Sel, but I’m heading back because I forgot to get more investiture 

Uh, reads. Slight elim on TBB, maybe Mat as well. I’m suspecting that somebody probably at least tried to convert him, so I’d be wary of Kas

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

If you can convince the village to leave Silverlight en masse today, then sure, that could work. I don’t think that’s likely, but we can try????

I've already stated I don't think it's psychologically plausible to persuade players to leave the Shards alone, which is why I mention it in passing. The real reason I brought it up is I might have a plan to help the Village ensure we can actually secure Shards instead of repeating this "Omg why so few Shards guys" thing again and again, which depends but I'm not sure I'm a fan of this plan, so /shrug.

It also depends on whether inactives or low activity players like Walin and Fae are Village. If they are, gg, because our effective numbers are lower. And also quite frankly I have had enough of being screwed by the Village so I am not really planning to waste my holiday time hopping to Silverlight to do it. In light of all of that, I don't know if the plan will work as well as it does on paper.

4 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

Coordinate within factions, I mean. Next cycle, both the H and K factions will probably have four members, which — if everyone’s on Silverlight — is essentially a free Shard.

Yep. Which is why I said it doesn't work in a game where staying on Silverlight and freeing a Shard is considered Evil. Good luck convincing people to not want Ultimate Shardic Power in a game based on Shards though.

I suppose the other thought at the back of my head is especially Autonomy's SD wincon because I agree with Turtle that it's genuinely concerning. If we overfocus on Shards and Shardic powers, we can easily be overwhelmed in mid to late game when Autonomy has the full six Avatars and can produce six charges per cycle, which is quite likely to outpace our ability to dump them, especially if we don't watch how many Charges we are carrying. (You can't tap a Shard that's not in Containment after all, and the Shards are unlikely to want to spend their Shardics giving Charges and being treated like living batteries.)

I don't think it's a reason to take our foot off the throttle with regard to Hoid or Khriss since we need all of them dead and one dead Elim is as good as another, but it's definitely something to be managed carefully because it's extremely easy to blunder into it (Odium charges will create a +3 deficit in favour of Autonomy!) and then we lose.

9 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

If it’s lategame, then the factions could also be close to outnumber wincons. I think it’s a lot harder to exe converted elims than to exe the faction leaders. Honestly, I just feel like the village alt wincon is so unlikely that we should plan for more realistic scenarios. But in all scenarios, it’s better if the village has more Shards than the elims. I kind of like your “everyone leaves Silverlight” plan, but I don’t know if the village is coordinated enough to pull it off. What might happen instead is half the village leaves, half stays because they want to use Investiture, and most of the elims stay, leaving them with control over the Shards.

If they are close to outnumber wincons, we probably don't even have Shardic control. It can't be both ways. My view is still that SD wincon forces the Elims to act in revealing ways, and I prefer forced errors to us helping them out, but I also didn't think it was ever going to be realistic to ask players to renounce the Evil of Shards, so I was more trying to think through how many we really want, and working out a way to solve the coordination problem.

[Mat he/him]

30 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Actually. No.

The more I think about it, the more it feels sincere (even if I think it's the wrong read.) I also think it's a bold read for E!Szeth to make due to fog-of-war, and I'm not sure Szeth seeks to defend a teammate here. Ehhhhh I really don't want to re-read LG91 so I'll just gut this for now and move on.

I agree with this, but more for the meta reason that I don't think e!Szeth or e!Alpha would convert the other first. I don't think they have enough of a player-to-player relationship to be current teammates. That being said, I don't think we can count on this sort of meta as players will do what they do and I myself converted Shining in his second game. Granted, we were a Warder-Aes Sedai pair in his first.

I think I agree with the e!Alpha read, though. Feeling pretty good about Szeth.

I'm kinda eh on releasing Shards, they seem complicated and messy, and in a game where we'll already lose members to conversion, Intent Conversion isn't something I want to deal with. Do note that if I happened to acquire a Shard I liked, I don't know if I would shy away from IC, so I'm kind of a hypocrite in saying this  But for right now, the easiest path to victory I see involves more contained Shards than released ones.

I'm still pretty busy, so the activity levels you've seen from me will remain as such. Just a PSA if anyone cares :P.

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

Kas, @Kasimir I think you should be more clear about what you actually want the village to do. I already proposed a solution to the Shard problem (the RNG thing) which you were online for and actually could have worked if more people had gotten on board N0. Do you want us to leave Silverlight and persecute the people left behind? Because that could work. Do you want us to form a plan to get a few key Shards? Because it didn’t seem like you wanted that before I started pressing you on it.

[Archer he/him]

49 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Actually. No.

The more I think about it, the more it feels sincere (even if I think it's the wrong read.) I also think it's a bold read for E!Szeth to make due to fog-of-war, and I'm not sure Szeth seeks to defend a teammate here. Ehhhhh I really don't want to re-read LG91 so I'll just gut this for now and move on.

Szeth

Mat

Worth flagging that Szeth has now twice made meta based comments. The first was on TBB 

Quote

Just noticed this on a reread. This reads… bad to me. I don’t like it. Kas’s activity aligns exactly with his pregame meta — he made it very clear what his activity levels were going to be. TBB, you know better.

Edit: yeah I’m aware that this isn’t necessarily AI but it feels like it’s against the spirit of the game and I don’t like it so hmph

In a game where you're arguing in bad faith, I find elims are prone to engaging with meta more. They don't have righteous ignorance, so they consider limitations like they feel less good murdering newbies. Szeth is considering 'the spirit of the game' and making meta protective comments about a new player. Being meta conscious is an elim trait to me

5 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I will note though that your team actively encouraged Alpha to hide the E!lack of WiM by appealing to playstyle changes and the fact the game is different/trying things out, so yeah, I'm not necessarily sure I am reassured either.

 

Edited to add #2: Archer engaging in public guessing games over Ruin's identity is interesting. N0 is probably the night with the highest chances of a Villager actually getting the Shard unless the conversion hit first, so it's worth asking what's gained Village-wise by focusing energy on solving for Ruin.

I think he took to it differently than expected. Generally when your team says go unnoticed, you act busy doing something fruitless. Alpha full on ghosted until rollovers for some cycles. They didn't feel the need to do solving busy work, which matches their current behaviour 

 

Your interest is noted. @JNV are you holding Ruin? 

10 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

 

I'm still pretty busy, so the activity levels you've seen from me will remain as such. Just a PSA if anyone cares :P.

*crosses out previous Mat read*

Under no pressure, you're making sure everyone's aware of your activity limitations. Reminiscent of your elim style

5 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

Kas, @Kasimir I think you should be more clear about what you actually want the village to do. I already proposed a solution to the Shard problem (the RNG thing) which you were online for and actually could have worked if more people had gotten on board N0. Do you want us to leave Silverlight and persecute the people left behind? Because that could work. Do you want us to form a plan to get a few key Shards? Because it didn’t seem like you wanted that before I started pressing you on it.

I think Kas is here for the journey, not the destination 

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

14 minutes ago, Archer said:

In a game where you're arguing in bad faith, I find elims are prone to engaging with meta more. They don't have righteous ignorance, so they consider limitations like they feel less good murdering newbies. Szeth is considering 'the spirit of the game' and making meta protective comments about a new player. Being meta conscious is an elim trait to me

I love that you’re assuming e!me has a conscience.

Seriously though: my arguments for v!Alpha weren’t meta-based. I’m just warning against confusing New Player Weirdness(TM) with malicious intent. The comment about TBB is valid, though. My real reason for that was that I didn’t have any other solid reads.

16 minutes ago, Archer said:

I think Kas is here for the journey, not the destination 

Sure, but he doesn’t just get to pick and choose the ways in which he wants to be active. He’s posted a bunch of analysis: using the “Kas doesn’t actually care about this game” excuse doesn’t work if he’s made it clear that he does. I support Kas’s decision to take it easy this game, but he has to decide if he’s actually going to do that.

[Mat he/him]

30 minutes ago, Archer said:

Under no pressure, you're making sure everyone's aware of your activity limitations. Reminiscent of your elim style

I think it's more that my recent elim games have coincided with when I've been most busy (like, literally ever :D), and that you have the connection backwards. I'm not worried about being e!read for low activity, as that's never been my elim playstyle, so there'd be no reason to defend against it, and honestly I think if I had been village in those recent e!games I would have posted the same stuff regarding my activity. Besides, in this case, e!me posting that after reading your previous statement would be weird :P.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Matrim's Dice

[Turtle]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

I suppose the other thought at the back of my head is especially Autonomy's SD wincon because I agree with Turtle that it's genuinely concerning. If we overfocus on Shards and Shardic powers, we can easily be overwhelmed in mid to late game when Autonomy has the full six Avatars and can produce six charges per cycle, which is quite likely to outpace our ability to dump them, especially if we don't watch how many Charges we are carrying.

wait ngl i didnt realize this is how autonomy's avatars work. that majorly sucks.

i got that homework done! school is basically over now, so i'll hopefully be much more active.

we have what, five elims right now w converts? i need to reread the rules

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

16 minutes ago, Turtle said:

wait ngl i didnt realize this is how autonomy's avatars work. that majorly sucks.

i got that homework done! school is basically over now, so i'll hopefully be much more active.

we have what, five elims right now w converts? i need to reread the rules

I just need to read them ;-;

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

18 minutes ago, Turtle said:

we have what, five elims right now w converts? i need to reread the rules

Seven, probably.