Syldaras he/him Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Here's a thought that occurred to me as I was rereading WoR: the Nightwatcher is repeatedly referred to as an unusually powerful Spren. There's one other character in the books referred to in this way. In fact, he referred to himself as the Almighty's "Spren". The Stormfather. I argue that although Cultivation keeps herself hidden from both Odium and humanity, her Spren is in fact the Nightwatcher. Think of how the Nightwatcher grants a boon and curse of her own design, mirroring the life and death duality of living creatures in nature. There are wild tangents that spring to mind, such as: who is Odium's Spren? Is it trapped on Braize with him? Might it bond with Eshonai, leading to a titanic clash with Dalinar and his bonded Stormfather? That's a meeting we got cheated out of when Adolin went to the meeting in his place, but I just KNOW Brandon won't leave it at that. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsworn Panda he/him Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I think I've seen this theory somewhere else. You have a good theory, but I believe there is already a similar one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syldaras he/him Posted June 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Ah well. I'm not as traveled among these forums as I'd wish. Figures someone else would have thought of it first. Still, fun to think about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak he/him Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 This might help. Quote Q: Is the Nightwatcher a spren of Cultivation in a similar way that the Stormfather is to Honor?A: The Nightwatcher is not Cultivation but is related. You're on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 This is a common theory, not least because Windle's relationship to the Nightwatcher seems to mirror Syl's relationship to the Stormfather. (They are Mother and Father, respectively.) However, we will have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syldaras he/him Posted June 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Glad there's a WoB backing me up, or at least telling me I'm not barking up the wrong tree. But wow, I totally missed Wyndle, and the "Ring" he spoke of, and "mother" being the Nightwatcher. Just reread the Lift interlude to catch up. There's definitely something here, though not enough to really expand upon. But I'm more sure than ever that we're gonna see a lot more of the Nightwatcher in upcoming books. So let me Tangent this post a bit: if we accept that Surgebinding is the fundamental Magic system of Roshar, and there's been plenty of theorycrafting on that front, there seems to be a secondary magic possible through the intervention of these "superspren" e.g. Nightwatcher and Stormfather. Nightwatcher is obviously responsible for the "Old Magic" which doesn't seem to be directly related to surgebinding, but closer to soul stamping, as it seems to rewrite specific bits of your sDNA. And the Stormfather so far manifests in Highstorms, which are obviously magical in nature, if closer to our understanding of surgebinding as a magic type. But I feel we'll see more from him now that he's bonded to Dalinar. When I first read the Stormfathers lines about not coming when called, and not providing a traditional Shardblade to Dalinar, I was sad that Dalinar might be operating with a bit of a handicap compared to Kaladin and Shallan. But now that I'm beginning to realize that the Stormfather's powers might be as powerfully enigmatic as the Nightwatcher's, I'm getting excited. Storm it! WHEN is book 3 coming?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefftucker0525 Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Another question, if all of the Shards on Roshar have a Spren attached to them based on human perception, then what Godspren is Odiums? Im sure this has probably been brought up but I haven't seen it, so any thoughts. I think it might be possible that the Nightwatcher is a mixed perception of Cultivation and Odium, because the fact that both a boon and a curse are bestowed seems kind of malevolent. Cultivation seems like she would help people, while Odium obviously seeds chaos. Maybe the two where combined through human perception/confusion into the Nightwatcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syldaras he/him Posted June 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) I too wonder about Odium's Spren. I have a feeling it's related to the Thrill. But I disagree about the Nightwatcher. To me, her boon and curse align perfectly with Cultivation alone. Feel free to correct me if there's information I don't know, but AFAIK all we know about Cultivation is her name, that she's on Roshar, and that she's in hiding. Based solely on her name, then, cultivation is the promotion of a chosen species through the systematic suppression of other species and the nurturing of the chosen species (agriculture). Abstracted, I see in this concept a duality of nurturing an aspect of a person (boon) while suppressing/altering another (curse), at the whim of he or she who cultivates. So I don't think Odium has to be brought in to explain the curse. Edit: Also, a tangential thought: based on the characters we've had the most POVs from so far, and the Stormfather's Highstorms being the source of stormlight magic fuel for Roshar, I had fallen into the assumption that Honor was responsible for Surgebinding. Heralds are frequently referred to as Heralds of the Almighty, for instance, though one could attribute that to the Vorin Heirocracy's manipulation of history. Now, though, I'm starting to think that Cultivation has a decent hand in Surgebinding, given how Wyndle refers to her as Mother. Probably old news to most 17th Sharders, but fun thoughts abound in my brain around this. Edited June 29, 2014 by WeiryWriter please don't double post, use the edit feature 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaellok he/him Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Another question, if all of the Shards on Roshar have a Spren attached to them based on human perception, then what Godspren is Odiums? Im sure this has probably been brought up but I haven't seen it, so any thoughts. I think it might be possible that the Nightwatcher is a mixed perception of Cultivation and Odium, because the fact that both a boon and a curse are bestowed seems kind of malevolent. Cultivation seems like she would help people, while Odium obviously seeds chaos. Maybe the two where combined through human perception/confusion into the Nightwatcher. Well, there IS a rather weird and odd spren that we see that seems a bit--chaotic--in WoK. It goes by the name of Cusicesh. Also, Odium is hate--not chaos. Where Hate walks, chaos naturally follows. So your confusion is understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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