Nightblood and Intent

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

What would happen if Nightblood was wielded to kill someone who is pretty objectively not evil. Directly against his intent.

Maybe they are just incredibly virtuous. They've made mistakes, but nothing that's evil. Dedicated their lives to helping people, impacting personally the lives of 100's and making systems that help 10,000's Attentively, someone who's morally neutral, nothing that great or terrible. To take that to the extreme, they are totally innocent. Popped out of the womb 5 minutes ago.

Let's run with the last because I think it's the most solid. Someone picks up Nightblood and stabs a baby. I can thing 4 things happening.

1. It fails. Nightblood doesn't cut. Baby is fine.

2. It backfires into the wielder in spectacular fashion.

3. It works but Nightblood is seriously physically, cognitively, and/or spiritually damaged. 

4. Some combination of the above.

Thoughts on the issue?

Edited June 21, 2023 by Elsecaller_17.5

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

What would happen if Nightblood was wielded to kill someone who is pretty objectively not evil. Directly against his intent.

Maybe they are just incredibly virtuous. They've made mistakes, but nothing that's evil. Dedicated their lives to helping people, impacting personally the lives of 100's and making systems that help 10,000's Attentively, someone who's morally neutral, nothing that great or terrible. To take that to the extreme, they are totally innocent. Popped out of the womb 5 minutes ago.

Let's run with the last because I think it's the most solid. Someone picks up Nightblood and stabs a baby. I can thing 4 things happening.

1. It fails. Nightblood doesn't cut. Baby is fine.

2. It backfires into the wielder in spectacular fashion.

3. It works but Nightblood is seriously physically, cognitively, and/or spiritually damaged. 

4. Some combination of the above.

Thoughts on the issue?

Baby gets stabbed. Then the wielder kills themselves with Nightblood too.

Don't forget, Nightblood can't discern evil itself, and relies on the wielder to determine evil. And when that wielder uses Nightblood to do evil, they are forced to suicide themselves too.

WoBs:

Spoiler

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Questioner

How does Nightblood determine who is evil and who is not?

Brandon Sanderson

He is not very good at that, which is the joke. He needs someone else.

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Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Thirty-Five

Vivenna Awakes, Bound by Vasher

<snip>

Nightblood himself, unfortunately, doesn't quite understand what good and evil are. (This is mentioned later in the text.) However, he knows that his master can determine who is good and who is evil—using the sword's power to make people sick, or through other means. So, he pretty much just lets whoever is holding him decide what is evil. And if the one holding the sword determines—deep within their heart—that they are evil themselves, then they will end up killing themselves with the sword.

 

Edit: I'd guess - depending on the specifics of the situation (such as not in the same room - have to move too far to stab the target) the wielder could end up suiciding on Nightblood before they get a chance to kill the baby/random-good-person.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[The Sibling she/her]

I think that if the wielder believed that what they were doing was good, they could get away with killing even the kindest most non-evil person in the universe. Because it is their perception of evil that is influencing Nightblood. So maybe if they didn't know how good the good person was, they could kill them for what they believed to be a noble reason. 

[alder24]

7 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

What would happen if Nightblood was wielded to kill someone who is pretty objectively not evil. Directly against his intent.

Maybe they are just incredibly virtuous. They've made mistakes, but nothing that's evil. Dedicated their lives to helping people, impacting personally the lives of 100's and making systems that help 10,000's Attentively, someone who's morally neutral, nothing that great or terrible. To take that to the extreme, they are totally innocent. Popped out of the womb 5 minutes ago.

Let's run with the last because I think it's the most solid. Someone picks up Nightblood and stabs a baby. I can thing 4 things happening.

1. It fails. Nightblood doesn't cut. Baby is fine.

2. It backfires into the wielder in spectacular fashion.

3. It works but Nightblood is seriously physically, cognitively, and/or spiritually damaged. 

4. Some combination of the above.

Thoughts on the issue?

It doesn't matter. Nightblood determines his wielder's evilness, based on his will and perception of himself. If Nightblood is already wielded it will destroy anything that will hit. That's it. Even if it's a baby. However, if you throw sheathed Nightblood under baby's feet, I found it very unlikely that baby would be considered evil so at most baby would feel nauseous.

Now what would happen to its wielder depends on multiple factors. First is if this is someone with which Nightblood has an existing connection, like Vasher - Vasher would be fine. Secondly it's about self-perception, if a wielder truly believes that what he's doing isn't evil, then he will be fine. Thirdly it's about strong will - a person with a strong will would resist Nightblood's influence.

But if a person think of himself as evil, if he wants to use Nightblood specifically to kill or threatened with it, then the wielder would kill himself (he might not even have a time to stab that baby, people under Nightblood's influence fight with other people under Nightblood's influence).

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Thirty-Five

Vivenna Awakes, Bound by Vasher

This chapter—with what happens in the latter part of it—is the most dangerous in the book. Dangerous to me as an author, I mean. I love good plot twists, but I worry about leaving them without proper foreshadowing. I've never done something as drastic as I have in this book, having a group of sympathetic characters turn out to be working for the wrong side. I hope it succeeds, but I know that if it doesn't, readers will be very mad. Nothing is sloppier than a book with unearned changes in character motivation.

But we're not there quite yet. Before that we have the first real interaction between Vivenna and Vasher. He gives her what he likes to think of as the Nightblood test. One nice thing about having a sword that "cannot tempt the hearts of those who are pure" is that when someone like Vivenna touches it, she gets sick. I didn't want Nightblood to come across as a "one ring" knockoff. He doesn't turn people's hearts or corrupt them. However, in order to be able to do his job and fulfill his Command, he needs the ability to determine who is good and who is evil.

This, of course, isn't an easy thing to determine. In fact, I don't think it's a black or white issue for most people. When Nightblood was created, the Breaths infused in him did their best to interpret their Command. What they decided was evil was someone who would try to take the sword and use it for evil purposes, selling it, manipulating and extorting others, that sort of thing. Someone who wouldn't want the sword for those reasons was determined to be good. If they touch the weapon, they feel sick. If others touch the weapon, their desire to kill and destroy with it is enhanced greatly.

Nightblood himself, unfortunately, doesn't quite understand what good and evil are. (This is mentioned later in the text.) However, he knows that his master can determine who is good and who is evil—using the sword's power to make people sick, or through other means. So, he pretty much just lets whoever is holding him decide what is evil. And if the one holding the sword determines—deep within their heart—that they are evil themselves, then they will end up killing themselves with the sword.

Vivenna passes the test, which surprises Vasher. He thought that she'd be the type who would use Nightblood to kill and destroy. (He doesn't have a high opinion of her, obviously. Of course, that's partially because he's let his temper dictate what he thinks.)

Warbreaker Annotations (Dec. 22, 2010)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher's Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It's also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn't get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he's a good person. It's not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers.

Warbreaker Annotations (June 22, 2011)

 

Spoiler

Travis Gafford

End of [Words of Radiance], Szeth meets Nightblood. Nightblood normally makes people feel very sick as a test. He does not have this. And I'm curious if there's a reason for that other than you didn't want to end your book with Szeth puking in a corner.

Brandon Sanderson

What happens when you take Nightblood is based entirely on what your desire on how to use Nightblood is. If your intent does not align with Nightblood's created Intent, which is kind of a deep, Cosmere sort of thing. But, basically, if you want Nightblood because you can then destroy all of your enemies, you're not gonna match to that Intent. If your desire to use Nightblood is either: "I don't even want to use Nightblood," you're actually gonna be fine; or if your desire to Nightblood is matching what Nightblood's view is... And Szeth is, like, the perfect person, because Szeth only wants to do what he's told, and Nightblood kind of only wants to do what he's told. So there's, like, a perfect alignment. They're both messed up in the same way, and they both view the world in the same way, and it's hard to find a more perfect alignment than those two. And so, because of that, there was just no reaction. And that should be something that I wanted people to pick up on.

Miscellaneous 2022 (Nov. 28, 2022)

 

Warbreaker ch 51:

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Denth wrapped up Nightblood securely; Vasher watched, hoping to see the lust appear in Denth’s eyes. Unfortunately, Denth was far too strong- willed to be taken by the sword. He had nearly as much history with it as Vasher did.