bmcclure7 Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 17 hours ago, alder24 said: Those WoBs: Hide contents strican In The Lost Metal, it mentions Autonomy having avatars in other worlds. In Shu-Dereth on Sel, Jaddeth speaks directly to Wyrn, who then propagates his will down the hierarchy- Brandon Sanderson Yes. strican Within the religion, ambition is rewarded, but only if it aligns with the orders of the hierarchy. That sounds similar to the philosophy used in the Set, but replacing Jaddeth with Trell. Is Jaddeth an avatar of Autonomy? Brandon Sanderson *chuckles and points at screen in very satisfied way* RAFO. You're a very smart person. It's [pronounced] "Yaddeth", by the way. That is also one of the Y-J's. ... So, I will say this. Here's what I'll canonize. There is something happening, and the people there legitimately believe, and have reason to believe, that their god is going to return. And I have said before, many times, that Book 2 of Elantris begins with the return of their god. 'Cause they've said "God can't come back until everybody converts". But they've found a loophole. They're like "well, except those heretics in Elantris. And also that other little place, that tiny little region that's over in the mountains, where they talk about roses, they don't count either. Because they're, um, not actually part of the planet." Um, so. So that's something to look forward to, if I ever get around to writing Dakhor, is the return of Jaddeth, the god of [Shu-Dereth]. YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022) Hide contents Mi'chelle Walker Was the Reod natural? Brandon Sanderson The Reod natural? *laughs* Mi'chelle Walker Here’s the thing, you’ve answered this question for us already, we just need it on audio. Josh Walker It wasn’t the Reod that was the question it was was the earthquake natural? Mi'chelle Walker No, Eric’s [Chaos] asking if the Reod was natural. Josh Walker To heck with Eric, we don’t care about him. Mi'chelle Walker You’ve told us that the earthquake was not caused by natural events. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, but it’s a complicated question because the earthquake was not caused by natural, but the Reod was a natural effect of the earthquake, then... does that make sense? So the Reod is natural, a natural result of... does that make sense? That’s why it was a tricky question. Mi'chelle Walker But the earthquake was not natural. Brandon Sanderson No, it was not. Aaron So the Reod is a natural reaction to an unnatural occurrence. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Josh Walker And wasn’t it because there was like magical strain on the land? Brandon Sanderson That is certainly part of what was going on. West Jordan signing 2012 (Dec. 6, 2012) Source? AonDor is Aonic Dor, manipulation of the Dor through Aons, Elantrians only, nothing else. Jaddeth represents Shu-Dereth, Dakhor which is independent from AonDor. 1.What are you talking about? You're confused the book makes it clear Dakhor is AonDor. That is why it uses ancient Shapes and symbols Just like the The elantrians 2. Jaddeth Is said to return in the next elantris, Do a loophole because it's discovered that the lands outside the Empire can't be considered quite on the same planet. We know from the inworld essay that AonDor is Becoming self-aware. It should be easy to put 2 and 2 together and conclude the return of AonDor = the return of Jaddeth 3. I think you're Reading too much out of that wob Remember that Brandon is specific with his words and often try to mislead. He never actually said that there was a connection, Only that something was happening there something magical. He never actually said that the questioner was right in his theory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 30 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: 1.What are you talking about? You're confused the book makes it clear Dakhor is AonDor. That is why it uses ancient Shapes and symbols Just like the The elantrians Sorry, but you are confused. Investiture on Sel is tied to region (and therefore Language and Culture): Spoiler Elantris Ch 46: Quote Raoden asked, smiling as he drew. “Did your training as a princess include some secret lessons in Elantrian magic?” “No,” Sarene said with a dramatic toss of her head. “But it did include training in the Aons. To begin every Aon, you draw a picture of Arelon. I learned that as a little girl.” Raoden froze, his hand pausing in midline. “Say that again.” “Hum?” Sarene asked. “Oh, it’s just a silly trick my teacher used to make me pay attention. See? Every Aon starts the same way—with a line at the top to represent the coast, a line down the side that looks like the Atad Mountains, and a dot in the middle to be Lake Alonoe.” Elantris Ch 63: Quote He couldn’t stop thinking of a conversation he had held with Galladon earlier in the day, a conversation initiated because of a piece of bone. The bone, retrieved from the body of a dead Fjordell monk, was deformed and twisted—yet it was more beautiful than disgusting. It was like a carved piece of ivory, or a bundle of engraved wooden rods all twisted together. Most disturbingly, Raoden swore he could make out familiar symbols in the carving. Symbols he recognized from his schooling—ancient Fjordell characters. Emperor's Soul Day 30: Quote The setting mark finished every soulstamp, indicating no more carving was to come. Shai had always fancied it to look like the shape of MaiPon, her homeland. Dakhor is tied to Fjorden and the ancient Fjordell script - the mechanics are similar to AonDor's ties to Arelon; but they are not the same. What is shown, but not confirmed, is how the movements in ChayShan relate to the language of Jindo. We also know that Forton uses Investiture for his miraculous poisons and cures - but we have no other data on his homeland (Hrovell) or how those tie together. 30 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: We know from the inworld essay that AonDor is Becoming self-aware. Also not correct. Khriss said she thinks the land is becomming self-aware. AonDor is not the Land. AonDor is one Manifestation of Investiture on Sel tied to the Land of Arelon (not the whole planet): Spoiler Selish Essay: Quote This overlap between language, location, and magic on the planet has become so integral to the system that subtle changes in one can have profound effects on how the Dor is accessed. Indeed, I believe that the very landscape itself has become Invested to the point that it has a growing self-awareness, in a way unseen on other planets in the cosmere. I do not know how this happened, or what the ramifications will be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: 1.What are you talking about? You're confused the book makes it clear Dakhor is AonDor. That is why it uses ancient Shapes and symbols Just like the The elantrians AonDor is accessing the Dor ONLY through the use of Aons - Dakhor clearly don't use Aons, they have some other shapes, based on Fjorden's geography, not Arelon's: Spoiler mistlepro my question was Aona/Skai Shards shattering the event we saw the aftermath of in Elantris? Or a further final apocalypse? Brandon Sanderson The events in Elantris happened many years before The Way of Kings. That’s all I’ve said for now. mistlepro But I thought the monks of Dakhor and the ChayShin(?) were all AonDor related? The energy familiars are related to Skai? Brandon Sanderson What the Dakhor did accessed the Dor, but it was not AonDor—they weren’t using Aons, but different symbols. General Twitter 2011 (Jan. 5, 2011) 45 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: We know from the inworld essay that AonDor is Becoming self-aware. No. The essay said that "Selish landscape is becoming self-aware", and that was only Khriss' belief. I can't quote this to you, check it yourself. 45 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: It should be easy to put 2 and 2 together and conclude the return of AonDor = the return of Jaddeth Your both "twos" are wrong, recalculate with correct numbers. 45 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: 3. I think you're Reading too much out of that wob Remember that Brandon is specific with his words and often try to mislead. He never actually said that there was a connection, Only that something was happening there something magical. He never actually said that the questioner was right in his theory. Quote *chuckles and points at screen in very satisfied way* RAFO. You're a very smart person. Watch Brandon's reaction, it said everything: https://www.youtube.com/live/jSkFJlJxpWg?si=9y_szAunVVMXeTPn&t=6000 Edit: @Treamayne a little Edited October 5, 2023 by alder24 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmcclure7 Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 26 minutes ago, Treamayne said: Sorry, but you are confused. Investiture on Sel is tied to region (and therefore Language and Culture): Hide contents Elantris Ch 46: Elantris Ch 63: Emperor's Soul Day 30: Dakhor is tied to Fjorden and the ancient Fjordell script - the mechanics are similar to AonDor's ties to Arelon; but they are not the same. What is shown, but not confirmed, is how the movements in ChayShan relate to the language of Jindo. We also know that Forton uses Investiture for his miraculous poisons and cures - but we have no other data on his homeland (Hrovell) or how those tie together. Also not correct. Khriss said she thinks the land is becomming self-aware. AonDor is not the Land. AonDor is one Manifestation of Investiture on Sel tied to the Land of Arelon (not the whole planet): Reveal hidden contents Selish Essay: 1. Now I see your confused "AonDor" Has nothing to do with the nation of Arelon . It is instead the whole investor of both dominion and devotion that is stuffed into the cognitive. There is not a AonDor for arelon and another for Jindo, And another for forging. These are all different manifestations of AonDor. 2. AonDor Directly tied to the land obviously that's why the symbols must take the form of the land itself. We know that investigature Become self-aware if left alone long enough. AonDor Has been left alone for a long time so it makes sense for it stop becoming aware. This is the only reasonable explanation for land becoming self where as that does not naturally happen. 31 minutes ago, alder24 said: AonDor is accessing the Dor ONLY through the use of Aons - Dakhor clearly don't use Aons, they have some other shapes, based on Fjorden's geography, not Arelon's: Reveal hidden contents mistlepro my question was Aona/Skai Shards shattering the event we saw the aftermath of in Elantris? Or a further final apocalypse? Brandon Sanderson The events in Elantris happened many years before The Way of Kings. That’s all I’ve said for now. mistlepro But I thought the monks of Dakhor and the ChayShin(?) were all AonDor related? The energy familiars are related to Skai? Brandon Sanderson What the Dakhor did accessed the Dor, but it was not AonDor—they weren’t using Aons, but different symbols. General Twitter 2011 (Jan. 5, 2011) No. The essay said that "Selish landscape is becoming self-aware", and that was only Khriss' belief. I can't quote this to you, check it yourself. Your both "twos" are wrong, recalculate with correct numbers. Watch Brandon's reaction, it said everything: https://www.youtube.com/live/jSkFJlJxpWg?si=9y_szAunVVMXeTPn&t=6000 Edit: @Treamayne a little 1.Okay thank you for clearing that up. I never thought to differentiate between dor and aondor. 2. Brandon Sanderson has confirmed that Jadeth is returning In the next elantras. I don't know why you think that is incorrect. 3. Kriss Is a genius scholar if she believes that something is happening on sel We should Conclude that most likely that thing is happening on sel 4. Out of the world context, You really think Brandon would purposely lie in the in world essay? 5. I'll have to watch the video. But i'd also like to point you to the wob That clearly says that the empire worship's Domination not Autonomy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: 2. Brandon Sanderson has confirmed that Jadeth is returning In the next elantras. I don't know why you think that is incorrect. That's correct, incorrect was that AonDor is all Dor and "AonDor" becomes self-aware. 51 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: 3. Kriss Is a genius scholar if she believes that something is happening on sel We should Conclude that most likely that thing is happening on sel 51 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: 4. Out of the world context, You really think Brandon would purposely lie in the in world essay? Yes, and she is talking about the landscape becoming self-aware, not the Dor. Plus this WoB - the earthquake had nothing to do with the ground gaining sentience - if Jaddeth caused it, he can't be the Dor/Sel gaining self-awareness. Spoiler Farnsworth Did the earthquake have anything to do with the grounds sentience? Brandon Sanderson Nothing specifically to do with the ground's sentience. Otherwise... RAFO! General Signed Books 2016 (Jan. 1, 2016) Edit: Odium stuffed Investiture of D&D to CR specifically to prevent it from gaining sentience - the Dor itself should have a harder time becoming sentient than normal investiture: Spoiler Questioner So we know that you can't just have someone-- If someone were to do something similar to Hoid, he can't just pop and go "Oh look, I can now do Allomancy or I can now do Surgebinding". What about Breath? If someone could somebody get Breath-- Maybe not *audio obscured* Could they still get the benefits of-- Brandon Sanderson Oh, good question... Yes you can, actually. Breath is-- Once it is given to you, it is being keyed to you. Your Identity. So that transfer makes it yours to use however you want. Questioner So you could Awaken? Brandon Sanderson You could Awaken. If you-- If you were to somehow make it there, you would be able to Awaken. It's the easiest of magic systems to get the magic from, and then to manipulate. Because it has keyed into it Identity. Questioner *audio obscured* Brandon Sanderson Yes, you can take Breath onto another world. In fact, you've seen characters do this. Questioner *audio obscured* Brandon Sanderson It would work, yes. Questioner *audio obscured* Brandon Sanderson Yes, it would work the same way. The only magic that is location-dependent-- The ones who aren't interested in this, just hum to yourself, okay? *laughter* You don't need to know any of this stuff to enjoy the books, okay? I write them so that you could just-- each series can be read independently, and enjoyed. There is behind the scenes stuff, and if you want to dig, it goes pretty deep. So on Sel, we have AonDor. AonDor is based on the fact that the Dor, which is an amalgamation of Dominion and Devotion, has been pressed together and stuffed into the Cognitive Realm by Odium who didn't want it to gain sentience, as Investiture will do if it is left alone. It will either seek someone to be its Vessel or it will gain sentience. He pressed it in there; he pressed it together, which creates the violent reaction, because those two intents are opposed. And that is the foundation of the magic. Because it's stuck in the Cognitive Realm rather than the Spiritual Realm (the Spiritual Realm is location-independent; Cognitive Realm is location-dependent), it makes the magic on Sel only work in close proximity to what is keyed through there to the location they're keyed to. This has to do with Identity and Connection. Mostly Connection. So that means you can't do AonDor on another planet, but you can do other magics works anywhere, because they're drawing the magics specifically through either the place, or they're end-neutral, like Breath is, and you don't need any extra power. Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) 51 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: 5. I'll have to watch the video. But i'd also like to point you to the wob That clearly says that the empire worship's Domination not Autonomy. The link is with a timestamp to that particular question. I can't find that WoB. Who said that Jaddeth can't just lie or use their beliefs for his own goals? The empire itself might have their beliefs rooted in Dominion's nature, but it doesn't believe directly in Dominion. The Coppermind page of Shu-Dereth has no mention of Dominion (but they were influenced by his nature), it states however that only the Wyrn serves Jaddeth directly - sounds familiar? Edited October 5, 2023 by alder24 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said: 1. Now I see your confused "AonDor" Has nothing to do with the nation of Arelon . It is instead the whole investor of both dominion and devotion that is stuffed into the cognitive. There is not a AonDor for arelon and another for Jindo, And another for forging. These are all different manifestations of AonDor. You are going to have to provide sources if you are going to make claims like this. Like this: Spoiler Quote mistlepro But I thought the monks of Dakhor and the ChayShin(?) were all AonDor related? The energy familiars are related to Skai? Brandon Sanderson What the Dakhor did accessed the Dor, but it was not AonDor—they weren’t using Aons, but different symbols. Quote Brandon Sanderson Weak Aons Elantris is like a massive power conduit. It focuses the Dor, strengthening its power (or, rather, the power of the Aons to release it) in Arelon. This far away from Elantris, however, the Aons are about as powerful as they were before Raoden fixed Elantris. If you consider it, it makes logical sense that the Aons would be tied to Elantris and Arelon, yet would work without them. The Aons had to exist before Elantris–otherwise, the original Elantrians wouldn't have known the shape to make the city. Their study of AonDor taught them a method for amplifying Aon power. 14 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: Brandon Sanderson has confirmed that Jadeth is returning In the next elantras. I don't know why you think that is incorrect. The Sequel to Elantris is (tentatively) named Dakhor and set in Fjorden. Yes, Jaddeth will return - but that return has noting to do with AonDor. In Fact - it's because of a loophole they found to Ignore AonDor: Spoiler Brandon Sanderson *chuckles and points at screen in very satisfied way* RAFO. You're a very smart person. It's [pronounced] "Yaddeth", by the way. That is also one of the Y-J's. ... So, I will say this. Here's what I'll canonize. There is something happening, and the people there legitimately believe, and have reason to believe, that their god is going to return. And I have said before, many times, that Book 2 of Elantris begins with the return of their god. 'Cause they've said "God can't come back until everybody converts". But they've found a loophole. They're like "well, except those heretics in Elantris. And also that other little place, that tiny little region that's over in the mountains, where they talk about roses, they don't count either. Because they're, um, not actually part of the planet." Um, so. So that's something to look forward to, if I ever get around to writing Dakhor, is the return of Jaddeth, the god of [Shu-Dereth]. The Dor is the composite of the remnant investiture of Devotion and Dominion, forced together into the Cognitive Realm. Because it is in the Cognitive realm (instead of the Spiritual Realm) and because the Selish Shadesmar has location - all Manifestations of Investiture on Sel are tied to location (AonDor uses Aons and is teid to Arelon, Dakhor uses the ancient Fjordell Script and is tied to Fjorden, Forging uses MaiPonese characters and is tied to MaiPon, etc.) Spoiler iper (paraphrased) Aons look like Arelon; soulstamps look like MaiPon. Aons get weaker when you get further from Arelon, right? That's not just cause Elantris acts like a focus? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) That's right, it's based on distance. That's why there are no stamped objects in Elantris. Viper (paraphrased) So do soulstamps get weaker further from MaiPon? If you left Sel via Shadesmar and went to another planet, would the soulstamp stop working? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) That's correct. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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