How does sentience on different worlds

[Munazir]

I've only read up to Dawnshard (no RoW), Era 1, and Warbreaker

"In that case, the spike instead steals the very power of Preservation existing within the soul of the people. (The power that, in fact, gives all people sentience.)A Hemalurgic spike can extract this power, then transfer it to another, granting them residual abilities similar to those of Allomancy. After all, Preservation's body-a tiny trace of which is carried by every human being -is the very same essence that fuels Allomancy."

If Preservation gives sentience then how do others in the cosmere have sentience And what does it mean SIMILAR to allomancy or is this a RAFO.

[Firesong she/her]

12 minutes ago, Munazir said:

I've only read up to Dawnshard (no RoW), Era 1, and Warbreaker

"In that case, the spike instead steals the very power of Preservation existing within the soul of the people. (The power that, in fact, gives all people sentience.)A Hemalurgic spike can extract this power, then transfer it to another, granting them residual abilities similar to those of Allomancy. After all, Preservation's body-a tiny trace of which is carried by every human being -is the very same essence that fuels Allomancy."

If Preservation gives sentience then how do others in the cosmere have sentience And what does it mean SIMILAR to allomancy or is this a RAFO.

It is Investiture in general that gives sentience, not specifically that of Preservation. Preservation is just the most important one in regards to the sentience of Scadrians, given they were created by him. The citation provided is talking about "all humans" in regards to "all Scadrian humans", instead of "all humans across the Cosmere"

[Munazir]

3 minutes ago, Firesong said:

Preservation is just the most important one in regards to the sentience of Scadrians, given they were created by him

So did Preservation give sentience but Ruin and Preservation gave life to humans.This part is confusing because I’ve just finished HoA and Ruin says that Humans are of both Gods but Vin says later in the book:

He didn't give up part of himself, making himself weaker, simply so that he could create intelligent life! He knew he needed something of both Preservation and of Ruin.

 

 

[Firesong she/her]

1 minute ago, Munazir said:

So did Preservation give sentience but Ruin and Preservation gave life to humans.This part is confusing because I’ve just finished HoA and Ruin says that Humans are of both Gods but Vin says later in the book:

He didn't give up part of himself, making himself weaker, simply so that he could create intelligent life! He knew he needed something of both Preservation and of Ruin.

 

 

I apologize, but I do not understand what you mean to say. Can you please try to reword that?

And yes, Scadrian Humans are Invested with both Shards, not just one. 

[Munazir]

4 minutes ago, Firesong said:

I apologize, but I do not understand what you mean to say. Can you please try to reword that?

And yes, Scadrian Humans are Invested with both Shards, not just one. 

This is what i think I get of it.
So all life is of both Ruin and Preservation like a tree or a horse. Equal parts. But Preservation wanted something with sentience so he have to more of himself to make humans with Ruin. 
Vin is human so she should be equal parts of both but she was able to defeat Ruin because she could do more then preserve she could destroy to protect.

this is my current understanding of it but I’m not sure how right it is. I have been told some of my answers are answered in SH but I’m not sure if I should read it now or after BoM

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Munazir said:

This is what i think I get of it.
So all life is of both Ruin and Preservation like a tree or a horse. Equal parts. But Preservation wanted something with sentience so he have to more of himself to make humans with Ruin. 
Vin is human so she should be equal parts of both but she was able to defeat Ruin because she could do more then preserve she could destroy to protect.

In general humans have what is called "innate investiture" and they were a native species to at least one planets (the original home for the peole that became Ruin and Preservation (slight Cosmere spoilers below - but not for any specific story). Preservation and Ruin did not want to inhabit an existing world and worked together to create Scadrial in an otherwise empty solar system. The planet and everything there besides the star they created 50/50. Preservation wanted a Sapient species based on their original home and made the deal with Ruin that if Ruin would help him make the people - Preservation would add 50.1% to ruin's 49.9%**, thus accumulating as life proliferated and causing an imbalance that would allow Ruin to eventually destroy what they had created together. So, all humans (on every world) have innate investiture (also called Spiritweb) - on Scadrial, that is intrinsitcally tied to their two shards (just as Warbreak is slightly different from normal). And for Scadrian's it is slightly more weighted to preservation (though Connection can change that).

That said, part of Vin's speech is "unreliable narrator" (she's saying things as she seems them - which may not quite be 100% true) and what the climax of HoA really amounted to was that Humans could both protect and destroy; and she specifically was able to use that to act counter to the Intent of Preservation because she had not yet held the power long enough to be constrained by its intent (something we don't have a timeframe for - but depending on the will of the Vessel and how aligned it was when it became a vessel - could take years to centuries)

Spoiler

We know Humans are noative to Yolen - the world of teh eventual Dragonsteel story that wil lboth tell us Hoid's origin and explain the Shattering. We also know humans were on other worlds like Ashyn (from whence the emigrated to Roshar) - what we do not know is if Adonalsium created humans on multiple planets, or if the emigrated from Yplen to other planets before or after the Shattering

**Note: numbers are fade up to illustrate a point - Brandon has not given true numbers - only that is is very slightly more preservation such that the imbalance over time would allow Ruin to fulfill the bargain.

Hope that helps

Quote

this is my current understanding of it but I’m not sure how right it is. I have been told some of my answers are answered in SH but I’m not sure if I should read it now or after BoM

If you care about spoilers, then Mistborn Secret History has spoilers for Band of Mourning and should be read between BoM and The Lost Metal.

[Munazir]

12 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

with Ruin that if Ruin would help him make the people - Preservation would add 50.1% to ruin's 49.9%*

Was is the deal that would 1 day allow Ruin to overcome/beat/kill Preservation and destroy the world

12 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

So, all humans (on every world) have innate investiture (also called Spiritweb) - on Scadrial, that is intrinsitcally tied to their two shards (just as Warbreak is slightly different from normal). And for Scadrian's it is slightly more weighted to preservation (though Connection can change that).

 

I have read Warbreaker but I don’t recall them mentioning any Shards 

16 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

 

she specifically was able to use that to act counter to the Intent of Preservation because she had not yet held the power long enough to be constrained by its intent (something we don't have a timeframe for - but depending on the will of the Vessel and how aligned it was when it became a vessel - could take years to centuries)

Is this from ES or SH. I’ve heard they tackle the ideas of the Gods etc but I haven’t read them yet.

I was on Reddit asking what should come first SH or BoM/era 2 and there’s a lot of back and forth. Apparently they both spoil each other. this is the lastest message I’ve gotten  

  “I would personally say era two spoils SH more than SH spoils era two, as they do just casually say what happens during the climax at one point.”

[Treamayne]

38 minutes ago, Munazir said:

Was is the deal that would 1 day allow Ruin to overcome/beat/kill Preservation and destroy the world

Yes - though it did not necessarily including "beating preservation" - at least before Preservation broke the deal and locked away Ruin's mind in the Well.

38 minutes ago, Munazir said:

I have read Warbreaker but I don’t recall them mentioning any Shards

Correct, they do not mention the Shard on that planet (Nalthis) in the book itself - but they do discuss extensively how all people born on Nalthis are born with 1 Breath. That is a measure of innate investiture that is above the average human elsewhere in the Cosmere (for example, Kaladin and Vin were not born with Breath). The result there becomes that with 1 breath, the Innate investiture of the average Nalthian is slightly above "cosmere standard" for a person - but if they give that away and become a Drab then their Innate Investiture is slightly below "cosmere standard" for a person. Slight Spoiler

Spoiler

The Shard on Nalthis is Endowment - which is why Breaths and Awakening are so tied to "giving" investiture to someone/something.

38 minutes ago, Munazir said:

Is this from ES or SH. I’ve heard they tackle the ideas of the Gods etc but I haven’t read them yet.

Emperor's Soul diesn't really have much on Shards - but it does a good job as "Realmatic Theory 101" describing the relationships between Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual.

Secret History has a lot of info on Ruin and Preservation specifically - no so much for Shards outside of Scadrial. I generally also recommend people have read Elantris and Emperor's Soul before Secret History - even if they choose to accept that there will be spoilers for Bands of Mourning.

38 minutes ago, Munazir said:

I was on Reddit asking what should come first SH or BoM/era 2 and there’s a lot of back and forth. Apparently they both spoil each other. this is the lastest message I’ve gotten  

  “I would personally say era two spoils SH more than SH spoils era two, as they do just casually say what happens during the climax at one point.”

I would guess that quote is including The Lost Metal. AoL, SoS, and BoM were written to not spoil Secret History

Mistborn, as a series, I recommend:

• The Final Empire
  • Eleventh Metal (or anytime during Era 1)
• Well of Ascension
• Hero of Ages
• <break - read something outside Mistborn>
  • (Most don't realize the extent of changes to Scadrial - so going straight from Hero of Ages into Alloy of Law can be jarring if you aren't prepared for the drastic changes)
• Alloy of Law
• Shadows of Self
• Bands of Mourning
• Mistborn: Secret History
  • Rhythm of War
• The Lost Metal (Has spoilers for Rhythm of War - but not as big of a deal to reverse these two as it is to read Secret History before Bands)

I recommend that specific order for this series.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Treamayne
Clarity

[Munazir]

On 11/07/2023 at 2:47 AM, Treamayne said:

 

Mistborn, as a series, I recommend:

• The Final Empire
  • Eleventh Metal (or anytime during Era 1)
• Well of Ascension
• Hero of Ages
• <break - read something outside Mistborn>
  • (Most don't realize the extent of changes to Scadrial - so going straight from Hero of Ages into Alloy of Law can be jarring if you aren't prepared for the drastic changes)
• Alloy of Law
• Shadows of Self
• Bands of Mourning
• Mistborn: Secret History
  • Rhythm of War
• The Lost Metal (Has spoilers for Rhythm of War - but not as big of a deal to reverse these two as it is to read Secret History before Bands)

I recommend that specific order for this series.

Last question about SH before BoM or after. I was told that if I already know about who the main character is then order doesn’t matter 

[Treamayne]

40 minutes ago, Munazir said:

Last question about SH before BoM or after. I was told that if I already know about who the main character is then order doesn’t matter 

Even knowing the primary protagonist of Secret History, there are still minor spoilers for BoM. The impact is significantly reduced if the first part is already spoiled, and I can see how somebody using only hindsight might miss the secondary and tertiary spoilers - that does not mean they don't exist. But I will admit that they are small enough to miss notice by at least some readers. For other members reading this, I mean (slight spoilers):

Spoiler

The person in the epilogue conversation, the topic of conversation and the string. EVen knowing the protagonists still leaves these as possible spoilers for Era 2. I would also guesss that the OP's hearsay:

On 7/10/2023 at 9:13 PM, Munazir said:

  “I would personally say era two spoils SH more than SH spoils era two, as they do just casually say what happens during the climax at one point.”

is referencing Death's Gift in AoL - and I guess I can see a small bit of backward spoiler for that - but only if other things have also already been spoiled.

That said, I've known a few people that are less bothered by spoilers and that read M:SH before era two. Not all of them regretted it (one had been so long between SH and BoM he had already forgotten most of what was spoiled - he read Era 1, SH, Warbreaker, WoK, WoR, OB, then went back to Era 2. . . ).

As always, it's a personal choice because it's a personal impact. I feel very lucky that I was already "caught up" in the Cosmere when SH released, so I didn;t have to worry about making the choice for that one.