Kaladin’s 5th ideal

[Zackarcanum he/him]

KALADIN’S 5TH IDEAL

 

Ok so i have a theory about Kaladin’s 5th ideal and wanted to know what you guys thought.

Sorry if its a drop long

 

Just to go through all his ideals let me post them-

 

1- “Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination.”

2- “I will protect those who cannot protect themselves”

3- “I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right.”

4- “I accept that there will be those I cannot protect!”

 

Now my train of thought is this: the 1st ideal is a commitment to the lifestyle he’s going to live- a life of putting others before him and being there to help others, and a life of giving up from himself and working on himself. 

The 2nd ideal is how he plans on doing this and that is that he’s going to protect others, specifically others who cant protect themselves- thereby dedicating his life to being there for others who need him most.

the 3rd ideal is a continuation of this- by committing to be there for others, one of the core points of protecting someone else is that you are willing to put the other person before you! Imagine someone wants to punch your friend and you take the hit for them- youre protecting them by putting them before you and taking the heat for them! Protection is not just about when you have the ability to protect them AND protect yourself, it’s about protecting them FULLY! Even at the cost of yourself sometimes!

If you are only willing to protect those you like- that’s not called servicing the world- it’s called servicing yourself!! It’s easy to protect something or someone you like, because you’re doing it for yourself also- to keep them around! It’s when you dont like someone and you still protect them, thats when it becomes true service to protecting those who cant protect themselves!

so the 3rd ideal is not so much a new concept as much as it is a continuation and reinforcing the 1st two ideals which is a commitment to SERVE AND TO PROTECT!!

And in this vain the 4th ideal continues- if the only way you’re willing to protect someone is if they actually make it through then it means you’re putting yourself before them! Cause you’re only willing to protect if you get the satisfaction of saving them, but if you wouldn’t have that satisfaction you aren’t willing to protect. Thats called putting yourself 1st- cause if you truly cared just about protecting the other person it wouldn’t matter if that person ends up dying- if you can make his death easier for him then you will do what you can to protect him from that pain and make it easier for him.

That’s what Kaladin’s brother was trying to explain to him- that just because they didnt survive doesn’t mean that Kaladin’s efforts were wasted- they still accomplished a lot- all those happy moments were worth living for even if they don’t last! Because just like you can protect a person fully- so too you can protect them a little- by protecting their emotions or happiness and things like that.

So now, here we are at the 5th ideal…

i don't think its going to be Kaladin sacrificing himself to save the world because 1stly its waaaayyy too cliche lol but mainly i think its because i feel like thats the easy way out and being a radiant is always about dong the harder thing.

It’s so much easier to give up your life to save the world and not have to live through all the pain that is around because you didnt sacrifice yourself. It’s those hero moments where we have a chance to step up to the plate and do something grand- moments like that are easy to do and most people will do it- cause its grandeur, its honor, and its glory! It’s the moments which aren’t what we call a “hero moment” that it takes a real man to step up to the plate and do it! 

I feel like the 5th ideal will have something to with Kaladin being forced to put himself before others SO THAT he can still be alive to protect other people afterwards! The 5th ideal will be that he SHOULD NOT sacrifice himself, rather, stay alive so that he can be around to help everyone afterwards- even though doing so will make him hate himself!! Because he knows that he put himself 1st before others- that is the 5th ideal- to understand that sometimes he needs to put himself first SO THAT HE CAN THEREFOR afterwards be able to put others before him!!!

 

I’m sorry if I’m not being so clear here but to put it simply-

1st he commits to working on himself and helping the world at large

2nd he commits to help by protecting others

3rd he commits to protecting even when he doesn’t want to- because he committed to put others before himself

4th he commits to protecting even when he wont get the “hero satisfaction” of saving them- because protecting others is about doing for them not for yourself 

5th he commits to the ultimate putting others before himself which is the knowledge that sometimes the only way to put others before yourself is by doing something which by nature is putting yourself before them!

 

I tried my best to explain my thoughts sorry if it’s not the clearest… what do you guys think?! All thoughts and comments greatly appreciated!!!!

[Silver Phantom he/him]

First your right about the fifth not being about sacrifice. Kaladin would be willing to sacrifice him self at anytime for almost anyone and especially his men. 
I agree with you about the fifth, but I would like to add a detail. That the fifth is about knowing sometime you surviving is more important and that sometimes sacrifices will need to be made for the greater good. And this is why it will be so hard for him, is because in his mind it will be to close to what Amaram and Sadeas did.

[Aeoryi she/her]

6 minutes ago, Mistbornfan said:

First your right about the fifth not being about sacrifice. Kaladin would be willing to sacrifice him self at anytime for almost anyone and especially his men. 
I agree with you about the fifth, but I would like to add a detail. That the fifth is about knowing sometime you surviving is more important and that sometimes sacrifices will need to be made for the greater good. And this is why it will be so hard for him, is because in his mind it will be to close to what Amaram and Sadeas did.

I think this is a great idea, but I would love to see it be related to Lirin and kaladin's arguement over whether you can protect by killing. Maybe it has to do with accepting that there are multiple ways to protect.

I think that honor has a plan that involves kaladin. Remember, the almighty has foresight. It told dalinar to arrange a contest of champions. Why? Because it's all part of honor's plan. Remember, most of the shards we know of have deep in depth plans that make everything play into it. (i.e preservation, cultivation, odium...) So the contest of champions will probably be beneficial to honors plan, whether dalinar (or his champion) dies or not . I do think kaladin will play a big role in this plan, but it will likely NOT involve the 5th ideal, considering you don't need to have the title "Child of Tanavast" to reach the 5th ideal.

[Zackarcanum he/him]

23 hours ago, Silver Phantom said:

First your right about the fifth not being about sacrifice. Kaladin would be willing to sacrifice him self at anytime for almost anyone and especially his men. 
I agree with you about the fifth, but I would like to add a detail. That the fifth is about knowing sometime you surviving is more important and that sometimes sacrifices will need to be made for the greater good. And this is why it will be so hard for him, is because in his mind it will be to close to what Amaram and Sadeas did.

I totally agree and thats kinda the point I’m trying to make here… 

that the 5th ideal is about kaladin surviving when he wants to sacrifice himself because deep down he understands that its what the people need most of him- TO SURVIVE!! 

[Aeoryi she/her]

Couldn't it be the other way around? sacrifing himself and admitting that people can protect themselves.

[Zackarcanum he/him]

4 minutes ago, Aeoliae said:

Couldn't it be the other way around? sacrifing himself and admitting that people can protect themselves.

Interesting point and to counter that i think that if thats so why would he need to sacrifice himself… if its all about that he isn’t needed then he can pack up and go…

plus there are always those people that society doesn’t look out for and for those he will always need to be around

[AustereGodOfColors!]

Hmmmmmm what growth does Kal need to achieve self-actualization as a charactor

I was SO happy that he swore to let go of being the savior for everyone. 

The counselor in me wants his fifth ideal to be commitment to self love...haha!

[Stormgate he/him]

So, I have a theory that the Radiant bonds are formed through trauma, and the oaths are standardized ways of healing from their individual trauma. For Kaladin, I think he needs to accept that others want to help him, and that sometimes he needs to let himself be protected. How this will be accomplished, I don't know. 

[Aeoryi she/her]

2 minutes ago, Stormgate said:

So, I have a theory that the Radiant bonds are formed through trauma, and the oaths are standardized ways of healing from their individual trauma. For Kaladin, I think he needs to accept that others want to help him, and that sometimes he needs to let himself be protected. How this will be accomplished, I don't know. 

I believe they have a supernatural aspect to them, but it has been mentioned that spren bond easier to those mentally traumatized.