thinktank ideas A list of possible novel power interactions?

[AirsickAviar he/him]

What can all you add? I want to see if we can't create a really full and fun list. Things we can imagine are possible, but haven't yet seen on the page.

1. Ferring of weight storage + mistborn powers. One could pull natural metal ore from under you in many locations to create an earthquake creating power, but you'd need to become heavy enough to be able to push them, etc.

2. High level bronze flairer or Mistborn + any weapon that damages investiture, like the fuzed use. The way they can intuit not only through blocking investiture but sense even the types of powers around and what they are doing, to even offworlder interactions with sensing kel's spren Syl, I think they'd be able to do it as easily as piercing a copper cloud, and in this coming cold war between them, i feel mistings or more with these tools hunting the spren in fights is dirty indeed, and a lot more practical and easy than having to use the sand like they did in stormlight. It would be ak instinctual radar they could practically shoot at.

3) Feruchemy weight manipulation + wind runner lashing. That's a doozy, lash something like 5000 times heavier than it should be, but with 4x the gravity? With what can be done if these two were on the same side for a fight... That might be mountain moving, lol. Just need to do it in the right timing combo. I also feel this combo would also be a trick to get people space bound very easily.

4) Hemalurgy + spren connection. It cuts a piece of the soul out even the points it's invested, ie, investiture and steals it for itself. Since the connection to Dalinar's spren was almost stolen in the same way by the herald, might it be able to steal the connection to the spren itself? But like all Hemalurgy, it might be impossible in a fight with the moving parts, but if the opportunity was there, and you figured out the metals or placement.... Wow. I think it should be conceivably possible? I'm imagining spikes that force a bond to a certain spren... Might as even this be part of the terrible spren experiments in the last stormlight book?

5) Imagine a windrunner or edge dancer burning atium? I feel that might be pretty much as good in most cases to a mistborn with it. Already some of the most agile and hard to hit targets becoming next level.

 

Tbh, I almost feel if as in the last wax series it becomes easier to make a thing that makes the Mistborn powers, the forces of Roshar might also steal that and do that too. And then taking spren, etc. I could see it becoming a very mixed bag of competitors over the long haul .

[Aeoryi she/her]

26 minutes ago, AirsickAviar said:

What can all you add? I want to see if we can't create a really full and fun list. Things we can imagine are possible, but haven't yet seen on the page.

1. Ferring of weight storage + mistborn powers. One could pull natural metal ore from under you in many locations to create an earthquake creating power, but you'd need to become heavy enough to be able to push them, etc.

2. High level bronze flairer or Mistborn + any weapon that damages investiture, like the fuzed use. The way they can intuit not only through blocking investiture but sense even the types of powers around and what they are doing, to even offworlder interactions with sensing kel's spren Syl, I think they'd be able to do it as easily as piercing a copper cloud, and in this coming cold war between them, i feel mistings or more with these tools hunting the spren in fights is dirty indeed, and a lot more practical and easy than having to use the sand like they did in stormlight. It would be ak instinctual radar they could practically shoot at.

3) Feruchemy weight manipulation + wind runner lashing. That's a doozy, lash something like 5000 times heavier than it should be, but with 4x the gravity? With what can be done if these two were on the same side for a fight... That might be mountain moving, lol. Just need to do it in the right timing combo. I also feel this combo would also be a trick to get people space bound very easily.

4) Hemalurgy + spren connection. It cuts a piece of the soul out even the points it's invested, ie, investiture and steals it for itself. Since the connection to Dalinar's spren was almost stolen in the same way by the herald, might it be able to steal the connection to the spren itself? But like all Hemalurgy, it might be impossible in a fight with the moving parts, but if the opportunity was there, and you figured out the metals or placement.... Wow. I think it should be conceivably possible? I'm imagining spikes that force a bond to a certain spren... Might as even this be part of the terrible spren experiments in the last stormlight book?

5) Imagine a windrunner or edge dancer burning atium? I feel that might be pretty much as good in most cases to a mistborn with it. Already some of the most agile and hard to hit targets becoming next level.

 

Tbh, I almost feel if as in the last wax series it becomes easier to make a thing that makes the Mistborn powers, the forces of Roshar might also steal that and do that too. And then taking spren, etc. I could see it becoming a very mixed bag of competitors over the long haul .

#3 Feruchemy does not affect weight. It affects how gravity affects you. I think that the two will cancel out.

Here's a fun one: An awakener with a dawnshard. I wonder what that can do. I assume the commands for the awakened thing would be much more powerful, maybe making it easier to grant sentience.

[Firesong she/her]

2 hours ago, Aeoliae said:

#3 Feruchemy does not affect weight. It affects how gravity affects you. I think that the two will cancel out.

Here's a fun one: An awakener with a dawnshard. I wonder what that can do. I assume the commands for the awakened thing would be much more powerful, maybe making it easier to grant sentience.

Actually, the current idea I see is that it does effect mass (Also, weight is literally just mass and gravity, what you said is a contradiction), with him talking about outside of the work about it dealing with the Higgs Field. And we know it is possible to change between states, so, I feel that it is definitely about mass, not weight. 

Quote

Seonid

I noticed that you-- Was that a retcon on the way iron Feruchemy works?

Brandon Sanderson

What do you mean?

Seonid

There's a researcher who talks to Wax, asking him about whether he's changing his mass of whether he's changing whether the planet perceives him-- affecting his gravity.

Brandon Sanderson

Right. It's more a re-- Defining something I didn't pin down strongly enough. I wouldn't call it a retcon because it's something that nobody really did until Wax, really, in the series. The only one really capable of doing that in the original trilogy would have been the Lord Ruler, maybe some of the Inquisitors, but we don't have viewpoints from them. So I wouldn't call it a retcon I would just say it’s something that didn't come up in the first series that now I have to make sure is clear.

Seonid

So is it Higgs field stuff going on?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Mmhmm.

Seonid

My idea was right.

Brandon Sanderson

Mmhmm.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Just a note: in the quote of mine above, I was trying (I believe) to find a way for Wax to indicate that weight doesn't influence the rate at which he falls. IE, acceleration in regards to gravity. It's tough, and I made the call (perhaps incorrectly) not to use modern physics terminology in the W&W books. It has been very hard then to explain:

1). Wax changing his weight doesn't change the pull of gravity on him, or the rate at which he falls. 2) He DOES follow the laws of conservation of momentum.

My talking around these things has let me to tie a few paragraphs in knots.

Quote

Questioner

Does Iron store mass or weight?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. The thing is it really does involve mass, but I’m breaking some physics rules, basically. I have to break a number of physics rules in order to make Magic work in the first place. Those whole laws of Thermodynamics, I’m like “You are my bane!” (laughter) But I try to work within the framework, and I have reasonings built up for myself, and some of them have to be kind of arbitrary. But the thing is, it does store mass if you look at how it interacts, but when a Feruchemist punches someone, you’re not having a mass transference of a 1000 pounds transferring the mass into someone else.

So there are a few little tweaks. You can go talk to Peter, because Peter has the actual math. Oh Peter’s back there. Peter is dressed up as Allomancer Jak from the broadsheet. In fact we’re giving some out broadsheets, aren’t we Peter. So when you come through the line, we’re giving out Broadsheets. Please don’t take fifty—I think we might have enough for everybody. The broadsheets are the newspaper from the Alloy of Law time. It’s an inworld newspaper. It’s actually reproduced in the book in four different pages, and we put it together in one big broadsheet.

So anyway, you can talk with him, he’s got more of the math of it. I explained the concept to Peter and he’s better with the actual math, so he said “We’ll figure it out.”

Quote

Questioner

So, Metalminds: if you store weight, how does that work, do you decrease your mass or...?

Brandon Sanderson

So, storing weight actually plays with your mass, because if you look at how we do the physics of it… This one is really screwy, because we are changing mass and playing with it. You watch, like with Wax decreases his weight while he's in motion he'll speed up, and if he increases it, he'll slow down. The conservation of momentum and things like that, but we'll doing really weird stuff. It's like, how can you store your mass… Well, in the magic system it works, but it’s one of the weirdest things we do. *pauses to sign book* We kind of play loose and free with the physics sometimes. Like the example that I often use is Wayne doing a speed bubble, the light that is trapped in the speed bubble...like if he turns on a flashlight would actually radiate because of the redshift, and you could just kill everybody by flashing that. So, we make the speed bubbles not cause a redshift for that reason. We kind of work with what is good storytelling first, and then work the physics around it, but we have to put in all these little breaks and things like that in there regularity in order to actually have the story.

He appears to be leaning more towards it being a change in mass and people are just misunderstanding things. 

This also ties into the way it works with conservation of momentum, and drag slowing him down when he lowers his mass too much. Which, as I understand it, would not really effect those parts. Given mass is the actually mass of the object, weight is the force exerted towards the centre of gravity. So, the fact that it effects drag and momentum is further proof of it being a matter of mass, not weight. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Firesong

[Aeoryi she/her]

8 minutes ago, Firesong said:

Actually, the current idea I see is that it does effect mass (Also, weight is literally just mass and gravity, what you said is a contradiction), with him talking about outside of the work about it dealing with the Higgs Field. And we know it is possible to change between states, so, I feel that it is definitely about mass, not weight. 

He appears to be leaning more towards it being a change in mass and people are just misunderstanding things. 

This also ties into the way it works with conservation of momentum, and drag slowing him down when he lowers his mass too much. Which, as I understand it, would not really effect those parts. Given mass is the actually mass of the object, weight is the force exerted towards the centre of gravity. So, the fact that it effects drag and momentum is further proof of it being a matter of mass, not weight. 

I thought sazed said that it affected gravity, after he floated down at the start of The Well Of Ascension

[Firesong she/her]

Just now, Aeoliae said:

I thought sazed said that it affected gravity, after he floated down at the start of The Well Of Ascension

Sazed probably misunderstood, or it was a retcon. As the current idea is it changes mass. 

Brandon has talked about how it is the weirdest one that he has to be very finicky and weird with.  He maybe made it as gravity, but later decided it didn't really make sense with the system. As Mass does make far more sense with how Feruchemy functions. When Sazed floated down, the idea of it being mass still works, as it would just increase wind resistance and thus slow him down. The only issue is Sazed's own perception of it. 

 

[Aeoryi she/her]

Just now, Firesong said:

Sazed probably misunderstood, or it was a retcon. As the current idea is it changes mass. 

Brandon has talked about how it is the weirdest one that he has to be very finicky and weird with.  He maybe made it as gravity, but later decided it didn't really make sense with the system. As Mass does make far more sense with how Feruchemy functions. When Sazed floated down, the idea of it being mass still works, as it would just increase wind resistance and thus slow him down. The only issue is Sazed's own perception of it. 

 

Okay, that would make more sense.

Here is another combo: 

Awakening the sand on taldain (since it isn't too invested)

Spren bonding to a seon (possible!?)

[Firesong she/her]

18 minutes ago, Aeoliae said:

Okay, that would make more sense.

Here is another combo: 

Awakening the sand on taldain (since it isn't too invested)

Spren bonding to a seon (possible!?)

I don't think Awakening the sand would work that well, as the magical elements come from living organisms on them. 

And iirc, he has said it is possible for spren to bond spren. So I think it should be possible. 

Quote

Kolby Bradshaw

Could a spren bond another spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Theoretically possible, probably not a direction I'm ever going to go in the books for inception/recursive sort of weirdness reasons, but theoretically possible.

Due to the recursive nature he mentioned, he might even change it to just be impossible. As he does say he has no plans to ever show it. 

He also said Nightblood could bond a spren but "the required circumstances are so specific and unlikely that it is basically impossible" (paraphrased)

Found the one of the WoBs

Quote

Questioner

So Nightblood is sentient, he can make choices, and now he is in Roshar. Could Nightblood bond a spren and become a Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Could Nightblood bond a spren-- *drowned out by laughter* That one's just a bit farfetched. *laughter* I rarely say anything is impossible but let's just say that one's pretty farfetched.

There is another one though, still looking

Found it

Quote

Sabrina Stormshard (paraphrased)

Could an awakened sentient object (e.g Nightblood) bond a spren?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Technically but the specific circumstances you would need are so bizarre, in practice no.

Wait, what if you have three Spren, lets call them Jane, Julie, and Jessica. What if Jane bonded Julie. But Julie Bonded Jessica, and Jessica Bonded Jane. 

He has said that it is possible to bond more than one Spren

Quote

Questioner

Could someone bond with two spren and wield two swords?

Brandon Sanderson

It is theoretically possible, but the spren aren't going to like it.  So you are not going to see it very often.

So, wonder what this weird Nahel polycule would do. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Firesong

[Walter The Moral]

4 hours ago, Aeoliae said:

I thought sazed said that it affected gravity, after he floated down at the start of The Well Of Ascension

He said that it didn't affect gravity, but since he was so light, the air resistance became important and allowed him to fall slowly.

Quote

Sazed's fall didn't slow because of his decrease in weight—it slowed because he suddenly had a relatively large amount of surface exposed to the wind of his fall, and a lighter body to go along with it.

 

[Aeoryi she/her]

2 hours ago, Walter The Moral said:

He said that it didn't affect gravity, but since he was so light, the air resistance became important and allowed him to fall slowly.

 

Thanks for the clarification. 

Other cool interactions: 

Fabrals that use breath: We've seen breath behave similar to stormlight. Can it power a fabral?

Skaze forming bonds with spren: this one is slightly more likely than the seons. It probably won't happen though. 

Bronze Allomancy sensing Awakened objects: You could in theory use it to track breaths. Maybe even people with breaths.

Transferring a bane with a spike: Old magic gives both a boon and a bane. Could you excorsise the bane only? This one is unlikely.

Spiritual Adhesion storage in a duralium metalmind: Can you store the connection made by a bondsmith in a metalmind? Is there something else that could go on here?

Sja-Anit corrupting Seons or Skaze: due to their spren-like qualities, this one could easily be possible. I am more curious as to what they can do with the new corrupted abilities.

Nicrosil spike and Unmade: We know that the ghostbloods thought that nicrosil would be able to capture or kill a herald, and that heralds and unmade are similar. Could a spike take away the investiture of the unmade and unmake them/remake them?

Hemalurgy and the oathpact: The oathpact could be transfered with spikes. I wouldn't know for how long, though, or how effective it would be.

there are probably WoBs about this. I think some of these ideas have potential.

[Treamayne]

7 hours ago, Aeoliae said:

Spren bonding to a seon (possible!?)

This is how Seon's already work:

Spoiler

Coppermind:

Quote

Seons can form bonds with individual humans. The human does not have to be an Elantrian. They love their masters and act as loyal companions and advisors.^[1] The bond works through Spiritual Connection^[21] and has similarities to the Nahel bond on Roshar.^[22]

Note 21:

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Why do Seons become broken when their person is taken by the Shaod?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

A Seon has a Spiritual Connection with their user. When the Shaod takes the user, it messes up the spiritual nature of the user, and it really messes up the nature of the Seon.

Note 22:

Quote

Thadamin

How important are bonds like the Nahel Bond and a seon bond in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

I'd say very important.

Thadamin

Is this kind of bond relatively common or is what seons, spren, and Nightblood do little more rare among Splinters. I'm specifically talking about the act of making bonds not a giving of magic powers really, that appearing to be function of Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson

The bonding is basically the same mechanic, regardless of the world, just with different flavoring. Roshar isn't the only place where the bond gives powers; it's a matter of what's stuffed into the soul, and how.

 

7 minutes ago, Aeoliae said:

Bronze Allomancy sensing Awakened objects

This is also possible:

Spoiler

Questioner

If an Allomancer found themselves on Nalthis or Roshar, would they be able to use chromium on someone using Stormlight or Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

I am staying away from answering too many questions like that until I start having it happen. But do know that the magics interact... some ways they interact very naturally, some ways, they don’t. One way I’ve released is, you could use bronze on most forms of Investiture to find it. So you can extrapolate that some of these things would work. But not necessarily all. All of them could be made to work.

7 minutes ago, Aeoliae said:

there are probably WoBs about this. I think some of these ideas have potential.

Do you know how to search the Arcanum for Words of Brandon?

Spoiler

On 7/20/2023 at 11:18 AM, Treamayne said:

Examples:

• Go to the Coppermind Unmade page, while reading you will find notes ([1]) that take you to the references at the bottom of the page. From there, if the reference is a WoB the link will redirect you to the Arcanum post.
• On the Arcanum, you can read all of the WoBs from a specific event by clicking: Discover > Events, then select an event.
• When looking at a WoB in the arcanum, you can:
  • Click on the event name to read all WoBs from that event
  • Click on a tag to make a search of all entries with that tag
• Also, on the Arcanum, you can search for keywords using the search bar in the upper left
  • While searching a tag, the advanced search will be at the top of the page, so you can keyword search within a specific tag (example)

Hope that helps

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Treamayne

[alder24]

11 hours ago, AirsickAviar said:

What can all you add? I want to see if we can't create a really full and fun list. Things we can imagine are possible, but haven't yet seen on the page.

Unfortunately, I'm the guy that focuses on realism  

11 hours ago, AirsickAviar said:

1. Ferring of weight storage + mistborn powers. One could pull natural metal ore from under you in many locations to create an earthquake creating power, but you'd need to become heavy enough to be able to push them, etc.

Practically impossible. Allomantic iron/steel push is limited in range, Vin was able to push only as high as Luthadel's walls, likely around 30 ft height. And to pull an ore from the ground, you would need to be heavier than the ore you're pulling, rocks it's attached to, and all of the weight of the ground that's laying on top of the ore. Ridiculous amouts of weight that you would need to tap for a long time. With Iron Feruchemy you can become that heavy only for a split second, no longer.

Might be somewhat possible with the Bands and duralumin burst. 

11 hours ago, AirsickAviar said:

2. High level bronze flairer or Mistborn + any weapon that damages investiture, like the fuzed use. The way they can intuit not only through blocking investiture but sense even the types of powers around and what they are doing, to even offworlder interactions with sensing kel's spren Syl, I think they'd be able to do it as easily as piercing a copper cloud, and in this coming cold war between them, i feel mistings or more with these tools hunting the spren in fights is dirty indeed, and a lot more practical and easy than having to use the sand like they did in stormlight. It would be ak instinctual radar they could practically shoot at.

Allomantic bronze senses only kinetic investiture, investiture that is actively being used. It can sense Stormlight but only when it's inhaled or used for Surges. They can sense spren, but only when it's being summoned as a Shardblade.

Fused use aluminum weapons, some with Raysium that convects investiture into a gem. This doesn't damage investiture, just traps it in a gemstone.

Piercing a coppercloud is hard, and every Misting is now of the same power level, they can't pierce copperclouds. Detecting off-world investiture with A-bronze is hard, and might require some additional steps - it's hard for Seekers to detect Feruchemy, and it requires training.

Spoiler

Rasarr

Could a Seeker detect a Shardbearer? For example, could Vin detect Adolin's Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

That detects Kinetic Investiture, Investiture that's being used actively, so in the summoning process, you'd probably get a blip on that, but not just looking at someone and seeing it.

Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Would a Seeker know if something's endowed with Breath or if someone was holding it?

Brandon Sanderson

Seekers have a lot of trouble with just detecting Investiture that isn't being used in some way. They could catch Stormlight that you've breathed in, because it's starting to do stuff. If just something has Stormlight, like a gemstone or something like that...

Questioner

I meant from Warbreaker. If you'd endowed like, a large thing with that, could you see that?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, something with Breath, could they find that with a Seeker. That's right. There are theoretical applications of this, but I would say your average Seeker, no. There is a way to get there but if you just took a Seeker from - and said do you - they would not be able to do that.

DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 29, 2019)

 

Spoiler

MoriWillow

The terms kinetic and static Investiture were introduced in Rhythm of War, but not defined or explained.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

MoriWillow

What are kinetic and static Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question. So I've been talking about this for a while, so some of the arcanists out there know. Kinetic is a thing I'm defining that the Investiture is being actively expressed and used, and so it has certain effects. For instance, you're gonna see sand get charged by kinetic Investiture but not necessarily by static Investiture. Static Investiture being Investiture that is stuck in a sphere. If you just walk by with that sphere, particularly if it's in a bag or something, the white sand's not going to see anything. But if you are actively using it to do something, if you have created or are maintaining something, if you are flying or you are using one of the Surges, then we call that kinetic. And kinetic Investiture is going to show up much more easily to someone who can replicate the abilities of a Seeker, who can hear pulses. These are the things the spren notice when someone is using their powers. This is white sand. There are just many things in the cosmere that respond to Investiture being used in some way, and when it is not being used it is harder to hear, locate, or reference.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

 

Spoiler

drughat

Is the reason why Allomancy creates allomantic pulses visible to Seekers because it is an external magic drawing upon Preservation's power? In other words, is the reason why Feruchemy is much, much harder to detect by burning bronze because it is an internal magic?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (May 25, 2015)

 

11 hours ago, AirsickAviar said:

3) Feruchemy weight manipulation + wind runner lashing. That's a doozy, lash something like 5000 times heavier than it should be, but with 4x the gravity? With what can be done if these two were on the same side for a fight... That might be mountain moving, lol. Just need to do it in the right timing combo. I also feel this combo would also be a trick to get people space bound very easily.

F-iron manipulates only Feruchemist's weight. While Malwish Medallions seem to manipulate ships' weight, it's likely that's only one way power - you can store it, not tap it. So a Windrunner can't increase the weight of an object he is lashing. But a Feruchemist lashed by a Windrunner won't work that well - Feruchemist changes his mass, Windrunner changes his gravitational acceleration. F=mg - m is changed by a Feruchemist, g by Windrunner. No matter the mass, they would fall at the same speed (ignoring air resistance and terminal velocity). But changing mass would affect energy so it can be dangerous (more to Feruchemist which would get killed by an impact). 

You don't need Feruchemical iron for Windrunner to get somebody to space - just lash somebody with 1g upwards and they would soon get into space. Windrunner can stack multiple lashings at once, they can multiply their acceleration to get into space faster. No need for F-iron. And once in space, they can lash an asteroid with 1g to collide with your enemy on Roshar's surface. Easy.

Spoiler

clyguy

If Wax were to go to Roshar, and--he's a Skimmer, right? So he can change his weight--if he got Lashed in a different direction if he Stored his weight would that nullify some of the Lashing?

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, you're going to make me think through this. *laughter* So Wax actually changes mass. And the Lashing only affects gravitational pull. So the answer is no because different things with different masses fall at the same speed.

Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Bat_Mannington

If a Windrunner lashed Wax upwards, could he dump all of his weight into his metalminds and be unaffected or would the lashing affect his clothes and whatever else he had on him too?

Brandon Sanderson

Wax could mitigate the effect (unless he was in a vacuum) but not eliminate it completely.

faragorn

Vacuum or freefall?

It can be easy to confuse them in the context of surface to orbit.

Brandon Sanderson

I was talking about a Vacuum, but it's good to clarify. What I'm saying is that without wind resistance, his mass doesn't matter--and the books have established that what Wax does is a freakish transformation of his mass, not just his weight.

Kaladin changes how much gravity pulls on someone, and in what direction. Wax (basically, it's more complex than this) changes how much mass he has. The two, then, have some very distinctive effects.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 5, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Could a Windrunner fly into space?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it actually wouldn’t be that hard, because Windrunners can control pressure, also. And as long as you have Stormlight, you don’t have to breathe. It’s harder for a Skybreaker. Windrunner… As long as you don’t run out of Stormlight, you could travel between planets as a Windrunner if you have enough Stormlight. Wouldn’t be too difficult. Kaladin could probably do it.

Waterstones RoW Release Event (Nov. 18, 2020)

 

11 hours ago, AirsickAviar said:

4) Hemalurgy + spren connection. It cuts a piece of the soul out even the points it's invested, ie, investiture and steals it for itself. Since the connection to Dalinar's spren was almost stolen in the same way by the herald, might it be able to steal the connection to the spren itself? But like all Hemalurgy, it might be impossible in a fight with the moving parts, but if the opportunity was there, and you figured out the metals or placement.... Wow. I think it should be conceivably possible? I'm imagining spikes that force a bond to a certain spren... Might as even this be part of the terrible spren experiments in the last stormlight book?

Yes, you can steal the connection to spren with Hemalurgy. But once stolen, spren can break the bond leaving you with no powers and no bond. You need to steal both the connection from the Radiant and a power from the spren (spiking a spren is hard), to get Radiant's powers. 2 spikes are needed. You can steal Elantrian's power, also 2 spikes, one for connection to Elantris, second to steal the transformation that makes one into Elantrian.

Burning Atium or Electrum, or anything that gives you access to SR, can help you with spike placement.

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

If I wanted to Hemalurgically acquire a power from First of the Sun, which metal would the spike need to be?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This is going to be pretty complicated, but several metals would work.

Questioner (paraphrased)

Would it involve Connection between the person being spiked and the bird?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well it would be even harder than on Roshar, where you need to somehow spike the spren and also the Radiant. You would need to spike the bird and steal the power, but also spike the person and steal Connection.

GenCon 2017 (Aug. 17, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

So, the fan page wanted to know. Would it be possible for Hemalurgy to steal a living Shardblade? That was the top voted question.

Brandon Sanderson

Ok, so you're bonded to a Shardblade. You get spiked, then they spike off the bond so that the Shardblade is bonded to someone else.

Questioner

I assume so...

Brandon Sanderson

But can they do it with a living Shardblade? You can definitely do it with a dead Shardblade because its just stealing the Connection. With a living Shardblade, yes you could do that 'though the spren could break the bond at will.

Questioner

So the spren would survive? That was the second-- the corollary--

Brandon Sanderson

Ehhh. Would the spren survive? The spren would survive as long as the oaths were--

Questioner

Intact?

Brandon Sanderson

--the person didn't break the oaths. But you could theoretically steal the bond, break the oaths, and kill the spren. If you wanted to. Its a very convoluted to kill a spren, they are easier to kill than that, but yes. You could do that. That is a viable but twisted route that you can do. You would end up with a dead spren and a Shardblade, so there is that. But there are easier ways to accomplish that...

White Sand vol.1 Orem signing (June 29, 2016)

 

Spoiler

mail-mi

Could you spike Elantrian-ness? Like, could you Hemalurgically spike Elantrian-ness?

Brandon Sanderson

Theoretically, yes.

mail-mi

Could you out of a Reod Elantrian? The zombie ones?

Brandon Sanderson

Um, yes you could.

mail-mi

You could?

Brandon Sanderson

So what you would be spiking there is their Connection to...to the planet, first. That's gonna be the big important thing. So you're going to overwrite your Connection. Um, and then you're going to....it's going to be a complicated process because you're going to have to spike the actual ability to have been transformed, that's gonna be harder.

mail-mi

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

Does that make sense?

mail-mi

Yeah, so it's gonna take two spikes.

Brandon Sanderson

It's gonna take two spikes.

mail-mi

Alright.

Brandon Sanderson

And you gonna have to get the right Connection to the right place. Let's say you spike somebody from MaiPon, and then you spike an Elantrian, you're not going to be able to use it, you're not connected to the right area.

Orem signing 2014 (Dec. 6, 2014)

 

Spoiler

PhantoMonstrosity

Atium is the best metal to use for Hemalurgy. Does *burning* atium help you figure out where to put the spikes?

Brandon Sanderson

Anything that gets you a glimpse of the Spiritual Realm could help with placing spikes.

PhantoMonstrosity

Would flaring iron and steel also help?

Brandon Sanderson

No, not without additional help.

#NookTalks Twitter Q&A with Barnes & Noble (Feb. 16, 2016)

 

11 hours ago, AirsickAviar said:

5) Imagine a windrunner or edge dancer burning atium? I feel that might be pretty much as good in most cases to a mistborn with it. Already some of the most agile and hard to hit targets becoming next level.

Atium is an overpowered combination with everything.

 

 

8 hours ago, Firesong said:

This also ties into the way it works with conservation of momentum, and drag slowing him down when he lowers his mass too much. Which, as I understand it, would not really effect those parts. Given mass is the actually mass of the object, weight is the force exerted towards the centre of gravity. So, the fact that it effects drag and momentum is further proof of it being a matter of mass, not weight. 

Air drag actually doesn't care about mass, nor weight, only about surface and velocity. But to reach terminal velocity (which is based on mass) force of air drag pointing up, must be the same as weight (force of gravity) pointing down. So Feruchemist changing his mass, changes his weight as a consequence of F=mg. 

 

8 hours ago, Aeoliae said:

Awakening the sand on taldain (since it isn't too invested)

And what could it do? It's sand, it can't move. It's also a rock, 9th Heightening needed. It's still invested and it would still resist investment.

1 hour ago, Aeoliae said:

Fabrals that use breath: We've seen breath behave similar to stormlight. Can it power a fabral?

I don't think so. Not unless they're unkeyed. Fabrial works because of spren, spren needs Stormlight, not just any investiture. Fabrials doesn't even work with Voidlight, they needed to corrupt spren first for them to work with Voidlight. RoW ch 49

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Exactly. My only guess is that they are powering them with Voidlight somehow—but I tried to make fabrials use Voidlight in the past, and failed. I know for a fact, however, that the enemy has functional spanreeds.

RoW ch 61:

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Syl has been inspecting them, and she thinks she knows the reason they work. Brightness, the spren inside have been corrupted, like Renarin’s spren. The rubies work on Voidlight now, as you suspected, and these spren must be the reason.

 

1 hour ago, Aeoliae said:

Skaze forming bonds with spren: this one is slightly more likely than the seons. It probably won't happen though. 

Skaze, Seon, Spren and even Nightblood are all Splinters, spren. The same thing. Unlikely to form a bond with another spren, but still possible. Herald Nale, who is a Cognitive Shadow, not so far away from being a spren, could form a Nahel Bond.

1 hour ago, Aeoliae said:

Bronze Allomancy sensing Awakened objects: You could in theory use it to track breaths. Maybe even people with breaths.

I've posted WoB above. Possible, but hard, and would require something else to allow a Seeker to detect Breaths.

Spoiler

Questioner

Would a Seeker know if something's endowed with Breath or if someone was holding it?

Brandon Sanderson

Seekers have a lot of trouble with just detecting Investiture that isn't being used in some way. They could catch Stormlight that you've breathed in, because it's starting to do stuff. If just something has Stormlight, like a gemstone or something like that...

Questioner

I meant from Warbreaker. If you'd endowed like, a large thing with that, could you see that?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, something with Breath, could they find that with a Seeker. That's right. There are theoretical applications of this, but I would say your average Seeker, no. There is a way to get there but if you just took a Seeker from - and said do you - they would not be able to do that.

DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 29, 2019)

 

1 hour ago, Aeoliae said:

Transferring a bane with a spike: Old magic gives both a boon and a bane. Could you excorsise the bane only? This one is unlikely.

Possible, but if a boon and bane are treated as one thing, that's not possible, you have to steal both of them.

1 hour ago, Aeoliae said:

Spiritual Adhesion storage in a duralium metalmind: Can you store the connection made by a bondsmith in a metalmind? Is there something else that could go on here?

Yes.

1 hour ago, Aeoliae said:

Sja-Anit corrupting Seons or Skaze: due to their spren-like qualities, this one could easily be possible. I am more curious as to what they can do with the new corrupted abilities.

Possible.

1 hour ago, Aeoliae said:

Nicrosil spike and Unmade: We know that the ghostbloods thought that nicrosil would be able to capture or kill a herald, and that heralds and unmade are similar. Could a spike take away the investiture of the unmade and unmake them/remake them?

No. Ghostblood wanted to capture a Herald in a Raysium (Odium's god metal, which have the property of conducting investiture) dagger with a gemstone, the same that was used in RoW by Raboniel/Navani and in OB by Vyre. Not nicrosil. While Nicrosil spike steals investiture, you won't fit the entire Unmade in it. Spikes hold relatively low investiture, and Scadrial is a low invested world, compared to Roshar. Any spren is vastly more invested than what's on Scadrial. You might rip part of it, not all of it. And another problem is hitting a correct binding place on something that isn't human. You won't remake an Unmade, you only damage its spirit web and possibly make it deadeye.

1 hour ago, Aeoliae said:

Hemalurgy and the oathpact: The oathpact could be transfered with spikes. I wouldn't know for how long, though, or how effective it would be.

Possible, but probably with some unwanted side effects. Oathpact might be tied to identity, so it might not work on anybody who isn't a proper Herald.

Edited July 24, 2023 by alder24

[Quantus he/him]

WOb confirms draining Color from a material will cause a physical/chemcial change to make it happen, to the point where it could be used to force such reactions.  If so, it can probably transmute Gold, Copper, and any other colored metals into something wholly different.  

 

 

Quote

 

tallakahath

So, on Nalthis, in the Warbreaker universe, when the color's pulled out of something, is that a physical or chemical change or is that a perceptual change?

Brandon Sanderson

It is actually a physical change, but the spirit of the thing is changing, and it's filtering through to the Physical Realm.

tallakahath

So, if I do that on a carrot, I can break beta carotin? If I do that on a piece of metal, I can reduce it and charge my battery that way?

Brandon Sanderson

Potentially, yeah! Yeah, that would work, you're changing it's Spiritual nature.

DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 29, 2019)

 

 

[Firesong she/her]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

 

 

Air drag actually doesn't care about mass, nor weight, only about surface and velocity. But to reach terminal velocity (which is based on mass) force of air drag pointing up, must be the same as weight (force of gravity) pointing down. So Feruchemist changing his mass, changes his weight as a consequence of F=mg. 

 

It does actually, drag reduces energy as it provides a dampening force against it, and that energy is proportional to mass and velocity. Thus, wind resistance and drag has a more notable effect on velocity when you have less mass. So while it doesn't factor into the drag formula, it does factor into the kinetic energy formula of the moving object, and thus how it is effected by the drag. 

So while you are right it isn't a part of the formula for drag, you forgot to take into account the kinetic energy of the object, which is what drag is reducing via converting it into heat energy. 

You also forgot the drag coefficient, which is a very complicated value that is determined by the shape of the object.  It is why streamlined bodies are used in aircrafts, they have the lowest drag coefficient that they could achieve. 0.04 if I recall correctly. For an upright human, it is actually pretty close to 1. The density of the fluid passed through is also relevant, it is proportional to the force of drag. Given that Scadrial is meant to be basically identical to Earth in many ways, such as size, gravity, organisms, and such, we can also safely assume the average density of the atmosphere is the same as the average density of the atmosphere of Earth, so that isn't much of an issue in calculating it. 

mV2 - CA * (pu2 / 2)

C is coefficient of drag, and u is flow velocity relative to the object. Changed velocity would be equal to mv/m+l, when m is the initial mass, and l is the amount that ones mass is increased by. The m you put into the kinetic energy formula is also, obviously, the changed mass. 

This formula, when you go through the efforts of simplifying it. Does come up with exactly what is depicted in the books. Decrease mass, velocity increases, but decrease too much and the velocity would begin to decrease as mass becomes too low. When mass increases, the drag decreases, but velocity also decreases due to the conservation of momentum. 

And also, yes, changing mass does consequently change weight, F=mg is accurate. I was just trying to define a difference between changing just weight (ergo, changing the force of gravity upon oneself), and changing mass (thus making an actually change to the object itself). Because, yeah, you are right, they are intrinsically linked concepts.  

Edited July 24, 2023 by Firesong

[AirsickAviar he/him]

On 7/24/2023 at 6:36 AM, Aeoliae said:

Tansferring a bane with a spike: Old magic gives both a boon and a bane. Could you excorsise the bane only? This one is unlikely.

I find it is perhaps 50/50? It depends on how it's stored in the soul I'd imagine, is it one attribute or two? I feel if it's one, you might need one, or the other? I do feel it's probably bundled though as you said, just, I wouldn't say it with enough confidence as to say I couldn't see it going either way.

[AirsickAviar he/him]

On 7/24/2023 at 7:34 AM, alder24 said:

 

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drughat

Is the reason why Allomancy creates allomantic pulses visible to Seekers because it is an external magic drawing upon Preservation's power? In other words, is the reason why Feruchemy is much, much harder to detect by burning bronze because it is an internal magic?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (May 25, 2015)

 

F-iron manipulates only Feruchemist's weight. While Malwish Medallions seem to manipulate ships' weight, it's likely that's only one way power - you can store it, not tap it. So a Windrunner can't increase the weight of an object he is lashing. But a Feruchemist lashed by a Windrunner won't work that well - Feruchemist changes his mass, Windrunner changes his gravitational acceleration. F=mg - m is changed by a Feruchemist, g by Windrunner. No matter the mass, they would fall at the same speed (ignoring air resistance and terminal velocity). But changing mass would affect energy so it can be dangerous (more to Feruchemist which would get killed by an impact). 

You don't need Feruchemical iron for Windrunner to get somebody to space - just lash somebody with 1g upwards and they would soon get into space. Windrunner can stack multiple lashings at once, they can multiply their acceleration to get into space faster. No need for F-iron. And once in space, they can lash an asteroid with 1g to collide with your enemy on Roshar's surface. Easy.

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clyguy

If Wax were to go to Roshar, and--he's a Skimmer, right? So he can change his weight--if he got Lashed in a different direction if he Stored his weight would that nullify some of the Lashing?

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, you're going to make me think through this. *laughter* So Wax actually changes mass. And the Lashing only affects gravitational pull. So the answer is no because different things with different masses fall at the same speed.

Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

 

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Bat_Mannington

If a Windrunner lashed Wax upwards, could he dump all of his weight into his metalminds and be unaffected or would the lashing affect his clothes and whatever else he had on him too?

Brandon Sanderson

Wax could mitigate the effect (unless he was in a vacuum) but not eliminate it completely.

faragorn

Vacuum or freefall?

It can be easy to confuse them in the context of surface to orbit.

Brandon Sanderson

I was talking about a Vacuum, but it's good to clarify. What I'm saying is that without wind resistance, his mass doesn't matter--and the books have established that what Wax does is a freakish transformation of his mass, not just his weight.

Kaladin changes how much gravity pulls on someone, and in what direction. Wax (basically, it's more complex than this) changes how much mass he has. The two, then, have some very distinctive effects.

Worldbuilder

 

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Questioner

Could a Windrunner fly into space?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it actually wouldn’t be that hard, because Windrunners can control pressure, also. And as long as you have Stormlight, you don’t have to breathe. It’s harder for a Skybreaker. Windrunner… As long as you don’t run out of Stormlight, you could travel between planets as a Windrunner if you have enough Stormlight. Wouldn’t be too difficult. Kaladin could probably do it.

Waterstones RoW Release Event (Nov.

 

Sorry for the quote errors, can't seem to figure out how to remove reveal hidden things from my phone quote. Anyway;

 

I can't help but notice your sources contradict you a little bit. For instance, the first one a fan asks Sanderson if wax could counteract a lashing by altering his gravity, Sanderson said he couldn't, because the lashing effects the gravitational acceleration, as you said. But I'm not trying to counteract the lashing, but add to it.  If a ferring increased his mass, and also the gravitational acceleration were increased together, it would be to great effect. I of course realize that it would always be at the dictates and direction of the gravitational acceleration of the windrunner. But it could make for a surprising combo I feel.

[alder24]

5 minutes ago, AirsickAviar said:

I can't help but notice your sources contradict you a little bit. For instance, the first one a fan asks Sanderson if wax could counteract a lashing by altering his gravity, Sanderson said he couldn't, because the lashing effects the gravitational acceleration, as you said. But I'm not trying to counteract the lashing, but add to it.  If a ferring increased his mass, and also the gravitational acceleration were increased together, it would be to great effect. I of course realize that it would always be at the dictates and direction of the gravitational acceleration of the windrunner. But it could make for a surprising combo I feel.

I wanted to point out that the speed of acceleration depends only on gravitational acceleration g, which is changed by Windrunner only. Thus a Windrunner can reach the terminal velocity faster (which also increases), and that determines the maximum energy on impact per Ek=(mv^2)/2. 

But a Feruchemist can change mass. It changes his terminal velocity, increasing the energy on impact both because mass is changed and velocity squared is changed too. So the Lashed Feruchemist would accelerate with rate determined by his lashing, but depending on his mass, he can reach greater energy on impact and thus be more effective combo. You're right here.

Brandon in the WoB questioned is answering if Wax could nullify a lashing. The answer is no, as Wax can never store all of his mass (F=mg - he can't make F=0) and he can't affect the gravitational acceleration. He will always fall. What Wax can do is reduce his mass to minimum which allows him to reach survivable terminal velocity very fast, and thus survive an impact - but he won't get rid of a Lashing. No contradiction here.

[Aeoryi she/her]

4 hours ago, AirsickAviar said:

I find it is perhaps 50/50? It depends on how it's stored in the soul I'd imagine, is it one attribute or two? I feel if it's one, you might need one, or the other? I do feel it's probably bundled though as you said, just, I wouldn't say it with enough confidence as to say I couldn't see it going either way.

I feel like it would have some sort of drawback, like taking the identity of the person or that kind of thing.

Although it's more interesting If another can use the spike to put the boon or bane onto themself.

[Firesong she/her]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

I wanted to point out that the speed of acceleration depends only on gravitational acceleration g, which is changed by Windrunner only. Thus a Windrunner can reach the terminal velocity faster (which also increases), and that determines the maximum energy on impact per Ek=(mv^2)/2. 

But a Feruchemist can change mass. It changes his terminal velocity, increasing the energy on impact both because mass is changed and velocity squared is changed too. So the Lashed Feruchemist would accelerate with rate determined by his lashing, but depending on his mass, he can reach greater energy on impact and thus be more effective combo. You're right here.

Brandon in the WoB questioned is answering if Wax could nullify a lashing. The answer is no, as Wax can never store all of his mass (F=mg - he can't make F=0) and he can't affect the gravitational acceleration. He will always fall. What Wax can do is reduce his mass to minimum which allows him to reach survivable terminal velocity very fast, and thus survive an impact - but he won't get rid of a Lashing. No contradiction here.

While you are right about it being impossible due to conservation of momentum, but I also remember reading something in either a WoB or Era 2 that basically said, storing mass gets harder and harder the higher the percentage of your normal mass you are storing. So, storing 80% would be harder than storing 70%, and this keeps on going. Which means that storing absurd amounts starts to get rather difficult. I also remember stuff on how, yeah, you can't store all of basically any attribute except for identity (I am still curious on how storing Identity works, like, Identity is basically haecceity, it defines the boundaries of the Spiritweb and what makes you exist as a separate and true individual. So I don't see how storing Identity doesn't make you just, dissolve away into the unifying whole and cease to be).  

I may be wrong about that (the stuff outside of the parenthesis, that is just a random aside) though, but I do remember that. 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Firesong said:

While you are right about it being impossible due to conservation of momentum, but I also remember reading something in either a WoB or Era 2 that basically said, storing mass gets harder and harder the higher the percentage of your normal mass you are storing. So, storing 80% would be harder than storing 70%, and this keeps on going.

I've never seen that, and I can't find WoB like that. There is this WoB that tells you can store almost all your weight:

Spoiler

Questioner

So if someone is storing weight-- Feruchemy-- Can you store enough that you can actually float like a balloon?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, your clothing and stuff will still have weight.

Questioner

If you were, like, completely naked and just *unintelligible* your hand up a wall, you will?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. You will-- You could float, yeah. That's-- I mean, you could get your weight so low that it's basically like being in microgravity, which is...q

Questioner

Like 99%? Like a vacuum balloon?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016)

Maybe you confused it with tapping and the effect of diminishing returns which uses part of your attribute to compress it when tapped? The more you tap, the more you lose.

 

1 hour ago, Firesong said:

I also remember stuff on how, yeah, you can't store all of basically any attribute except for identity (I am still curious on how storing Identity works, like, Identity is basically haecceity, it defines the boundaries of the Spiritweb and what makes you exist as a separate and true individual. So I don't see how storing Identity doesn't make you just, dissolve away into the unifying whole and cease to be).  

You can store all memories in copper.

Identity isn't like your true self, it's more like an encryption key that binds "stuff" to you. Identity definitely does something more than being just an encryption key, the way you look like is tied to your identity (not for everyone, so it must also depend on perception - that means spiritual ideal to which you heal might be part of your identity), but probably not something like you're wondering about:

Spoiler

Paleo

Then we also talked about, theorized about unkeyed metalminds - that is Identity-less ones that anybody can that has the power can tap.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Paleo

We also were wondering is it like, we compared it to cryptography and encryption, stuff like that. Is it just that like, your Identity is sort of this unique encryption key.

Brandon Sanderson

And you need a key to you getting it. That's a valid line of theorizing. It is not exactly but it's close enough to be a good model.

Paleo

And would an unkeyed metalmind theoretically be capable of storing a little more than a keyed one.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, because of yeah.

Paleo

Because it has to... Is it inherent to the Investiture or is it like an extra bit?

Brandon Sanderson

I'll RAFO that, mostly because I haven't considered that yet.

Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019)

 

Spoiler

Phantine

So... CS question here, I'm seeing identity as essentially a 'encryption' on the metalmind - the spike has the decryption key to existing metalminds, but when you encrypt a new one you use your personal encryption key with the spike's hardware, so you still have compounding access to the metalminds even after removing the spike.

Is it possible for there to be a 'key collision' with Identity? Two people just randomly end up making compatible metalminds, because the pieces of their Identities that the magic looks like happen to be the same.

Brandon Sanderson

This would be about as likely as two unrelated people ending up with the exact same genetic sequence.

But, so far as I understand, that WOULD be possible.

Lucadaw

So identical twins could share metalminds ?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 9, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

I've got a Mistborn question for you. So, Identity? Can you store, like-- is your physical appearance part of your Identity?

Brandon Sanderson

It is to some people. To most people, it's a part of it, yes.... I don't know the answer-- don't take that as "You can store that." and things like that. It's involved. There are certain things you can do. But it's not as simple as it might have sounded, what I just implied.

Questioner

So, does that apply to your Identity, if you're in the Cognitive Realm? Or the Physical Realm? Can you store that?

Brandon Sanderson

The reason you look like you do in the Cognitive Realm is because it's Identity, things like that. I'm not gonna talk about specifically how storing that works really. Although there is the idea that your soul is the key to Investiture and stuff like that.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 23, 2017)

 

[Firesong she/her]

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

I've never seen that, and I can't find WoB like that. There is this WoB that tells you can store almost all your weight:

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Questioner

So if someone is storing weight-- Feruchemy-- Can you store enough that you can actually float like a balloon?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, your clothing and stuff will still have weight.

Questioner

If you were, like, completely naked and just *unintelligible* your hand up a wall, you will?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. You will-- You could float, yeah. That's-- I mean, you could get your weight so low that it's basically like being in microgravity, which is...q

Questioner

Like 99%? Like a vacuum balloon?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016)

Maybe you confused it with tapping and the effect of diminishing returns which uses part of your attribute to compress it when tapped? The more you tap, the more you lose.

 

You can store all memories in copper.

Identity isn't like your true self, it's more like an encryption key that binds "stuff" to you. Identity definitely does something more than being just an encryption key, the way you look like is tied to your identity (not for everyone, so it must also depend on perception - that means spiritual ideal to which you heal might be part of your identity), but probably not something like you're wondering about:

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Paleo

Then we also talked about, theorized about unkeyed metalminds - that is Identity-less ones that anybody can that has the power can tap.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Paleo

We also were wondering is it like, we compared it to cryptography and encryption, stuff like that. Is it just that like, your Identity is sort of this unique encryption key.

Brandon Sanderson

And you need a key to you getting it. That's a valid line of theorizing. It is not exactly but it's close enough to be a good model.

Paleo

And would an unkeyed metalmind theoretically be capable of storing a little more than a keyed one.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, because of yeah.

Paleo

Because it has to... Is it inherent to the Investiture or is it like an extra bit?

Brandon Sanderson

I'll RAFO that, mostly because I haven't considered that yet.

Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019)

 

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Phantine

So... CS question here, I'm seeing identity as essentially a 'encryption' on the metalmind - the spike has the decryption key to existing metalminds, but when you encrypt a new one you use your personal encryption key with the spike's hardware, so you still have compounding access to the metalminds even after removing the spike.

Is it possible for there to be a 'key collision' with Identity? Two people just randomly end up making compatible metalminds, because the pieces of their Identities that the magic looks like happen to be the same.

Brandon Sanderson

This would be about as likely as two unrelated people ending up with the exact same genetic sequence.

But, so far as I understand, that WOULD be possible.

Lucadaw

So identical twins could share metalminds ?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 9, 2015)

 

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Questioner

I've got a Mistborn question for you. So, Identity? Can you store, like-- is your physical appearance part of your Identity?

Brandon Sanderson

It is to some people. To most people, it's a part of it, yes.... I don't know the answer-- don't take that as "You can store that." and things like that. It's involved. There are certain things you can do. But it's not as simple as it might have sounded, what I just implied.

Questioner

So, does that apply to your Identity, if you're in the Cognitive Realm? Or the Physical Realm? Can you store that?

Brandon Sanderson

The reason you look like you do in the Cognitive Realm is because it's Identity, things like that. I'm not gonna talk about specifically how storing that works really. Although there is the idea that your soul is the key to Investiture and stuff like that.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 23, 2017)

 

I did manage to find it.

Quote

Thoughtful Spurts

If there's really no upper limit to Feruchemy for practical reasons* , why didn't Sazed just fill steel at ridiculous levels for a few minutes in [Well of Ascension], and then go back to running instead of leaving his steelminds there? Say, being some 100,000 times slower than he would normally be for about a minute. Meaning that a Feruchemist should be able to fill a given metalmind in very short periods of time if you fill at a high enough rate.

*(yes, you have the limit of how much you can store in a given metalmind and for how many metalminds you can carry on your person, but those are probably too high to really be taken into account in more "normal" circumstances)

Brandon Sanderson

The low end is bounded. You can pull out tons--but in filling, you can only go so far. I didn't ever explicitly talk about this in the series, but the implications are there. Not all have the same bounds, but in your example, the body just can't slow beyond a certain point. Think of it this way--you can only fill a weight metalmind with as much weight as you have to give. So you can become very, very light--but you only add to a time for doubling your weight. You can't make yourself 100,000 times slower and gain 100,000 times multiplication. You can give up all of your normal speed, and so when you tap that speed out you are at 200% for an equal period. (And that's a theoretical maximum; realistically, you can only go to down around 75% slower or the like.)

 

[Treamayne]

8 minutes ago, Firesong said:

I did manage to find it.

Which pairs with this WoB about how storing some traits risks death if you store too much at one time:

Spoiler

Sporkify

This is more towards the whole physics stuff, but is Feruchemy really balanced? If it gives diminishing returns, wouldn't this end up as a net loss of power?

Brandon Sanderson

It doesn't diminish. Or, well, it does—but only if you compound it. You get 1 for 1 back, but compounding the power requires an expenditure of the power itself. For instance, if you are weak for one hour, you can gain the lost strength for one hour. But that's not really that much strength. After all, you probably weren't as weak as zero people during that time. So if you want to be as strong as two men, you couldn't do it for a full hour. You'd have to spend some energy to compound, then spend the compounded energy itself.

In more mathematical terms, let's say you spend one hour at 50% strength. You could then spend one hour at 150% strength, or perhaps 25 min at 200% strength, or maybe 10min at 250% strength. Each increment is harder, and therefore 'strains' you more and burns your energy more quickly. And since most Feruchemists don't store at 50% strength, but instead at something like 80% strength (it feels like much more when they do it, but you can't really push the body to that much forced weakness without risking death) you can burn through a few day's strength in a very short time if you aren't careful.

AFAIK - the traits that risk death when trying to store too much at once are: Health, Speed, Breath, Strength, Nutrition, Warmth