Odium is not native to Roshar

[Chaos he/him]

Our illustrious zas678 is at the Brandon signing right now, and tweeted @17thshard this:

"Odium is not native to Roshar"

I am flipping out. Discuss (the tweet, not me flipping out).

[CrazyRioter she/her]

so does this mean that there is/was 3 shards BESIDES Odium on Roshar at one point? This totally messes up our counting!

Edited December 16, 2011 by CrazyRioter

[Windrunner he/him]

from Brandonothology, Ancient Q&A

13. How many Shards have existed on Roshar?

ANSWER: Three

Darn, this screws the theory that I was working on. I'm thinking that Odium must have come from wherever Damnation is, that planet must have been his Shardworld, one of the remaining three of the Core ten worlds. New idea, Roshar was Cultivation's world, Odium invaded and Honor came to defend her and defeat Odium, but somehow got himself killed by Odium. Or maybe it was Honor and Cultivation there originally and Odium attacked with his horde of Voidbringers.

Spoilers Cosmere/ Elantris

I believe Odium brought a force of Voidbringers when he Splintered Aona and Skai. This killed all the original users of AonDor and maybe DakhorDor as well, so Elantris city was empty when the Aonic people found it.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Windrunner

[Arcanist Lupus he/him]

Chapter 11 epigraph

Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns.

Verrrry interesting, when taken with our new information.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Sir Read-a-Lot

[name_here]

You know, I'd previously noticed that seemed odd. Guess that explains it.

[firstRainbowRose she/her]

What I want to know is this: if he's not from there, what type of magic system would be based around hate? My guess (from what I've heard) is it fits the world of Silence Divine, but Brandon wouldn't confirm or deny that thought.

[fiveAM he/him]

from Brandonothology, Ancient Q&A

13. How many Shards have existed on Roshar?

ANSWER: Three

Darn, this screws the theory that I was working on. I'm thinking that Odium must have come from wherever Damnation is, that planet must have been his Shardworld, one of the remaining three of the Core ten worlds. New idea, Roshar was Cultivation's world, Odium invaded and Honor came to defend her and defeat Odium, but somehow got himself killed by Odium. Or maybe it was Honor and Cultivation there originally and Odium attacked with his horde of Voidbringers.

Does this mean there has only been 3 Shards on Roshar ever? Or does it mean at one time? It says "have" not "has had" mmm.

Chapter 11 epigraph

Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns.

Verrrry interesting, when taken with our new information.

For this, I think there are 3 possibilities:

(1) The three refers to the 3 Splintered Shards: Aona, Dominion, Honor

(2) Cultivation and Honor and 1 other Shard built/ruled Roshar and Odium killed/Splintered the other one before fighting it out with Honor.

(3) If we follow Windrunner's little theory. Cultivation and 2 other Shards built/ruled Roshar. Odium killed/Splintered 2 of them and Honor came following Odium to try to stop him.

Agh this is really messing with my head.. I need sleep. Exciting though.

Edit: The post didn't include the quotes in quote with multiquote at first so added it in

Edited December 16, 2011 by fiveAM

[callumke he/him]

This doesn't particularly surprise me.

13. How many Shards have existed on Roshar?

ANSWER: Three

This doesn't mean that the three shards are native to Roshar. It just means that, at some point in the past, there were three Shards present at once. It doesn't mean there are three native Roshar Shards.

It makes sense for Odium to not be native to Roshar; otherwise why would he have left to destroy Aona and Skai, and possibly others as well?

Now the Last Desolation has come, I think that Odium has returned to Roshar.

I foresee two ways in which this will affect our understanding; either Voidbinding is not related to Odium, or Voidbinding can manifest throughout the Cosmere, a la Lightweaving.

[name_here]

Maybe Odium arrived when the desolations started?

It does lead to a question, though. Namely: Since Odium is intact, why is he called The Broken One?

[MasterGhandalf]

Assuming that the Broken One is Odium (which seems fairly safe, given what we know) I'd imagine it has something to do with his history or personality that we don't know yet. It might also be a poetic way of referring to how horrible he is (ie, he's "broken" spiritually) but that doesn't seem quite right to me- surely a Shard named Odium running around causing misery and destruction is perfectly fulfilling the purpose (or Intent, to borrow Chaos' terminology) of his existence, and therefore wouldn't qualify as "Broken".

[discipleofhoid he/him]

Do we know is this he is not native in the since that other shards set up camp here first then he moved in or is this a Brandon is tricksie moment and he is saying he is not native because all of the shards came from a different planet to begin with?

[happyman he/him]

I've wondered about this. I'm not surprised, really. When I first read the line about "three of sixteen," and "broken one," I just assumed it meant that there were three shards (not including Odium) on Roshar originally, and that Odium then came and disrupted their party. With Brandon's later comments about there being three Shards on Roshar, I abandoned it, but reluctantly. Now, though, I'm leaning back towards that idea. After all, it's entirely possible that Odium has never counted as a full shard on Roshar---he may have sent representatives, but I don't think he has ever exercised his full power over the planet.

[Wispsy he/him]

^ what happyman said pretty much for me

with only 3 shards existing on roshar...well either brandon is being tricksey like disciple said or ive always wondered if odium didnt actually visit roshar yet and has been creating and sending the desolations/voidbringers to weaken the shards there before moving in risking himself.

odium may just be on some massive personal quest to destroy anybody who may stand up to him or just anybody with power and roshar is next in line! with really not that long a time passing from a shardic perspective.

[Kaurne]

Assuming that the Broken One is Odium (which seems fairly safe, given what we know) I'd imagine it has something to do with his history or personality that we don't know yet. It might also be a poetic way of referring to how horrible he is (ie, he's "broken" spiritually) but that doesn't seem quite right to me- surely a Shard named Odium running around causing misery and destruction is perfectly fulfilling the purpose (or Intent, to borrow Chaos' terminology) of his existence, and therefore wouldn't qualify as "Broken".

I would note the difference between the use of 'ruled' and 'reigned'. In my native Britain, the Queen reigns but does not rule, as she has no real power. Given that Honor was probably splintered, but now is worshiped pretty much across Roshar as the Almighty, then he 'reigns' over Roshar, considering he is seen as the ruler of the world, but does not rule it anymore as he has no power, due to being splintered. Given that it is likely Odium is actually coming to Roshar for the True Desolation (as opposed to already being there, as that would probably cause the destruction seen in Dalinars visions) then The Broken One is probably Honor, not Odium

[fiveAM he/him]

I would note the difference between the use of 'ruled' and 'reigned'. In my native Britain, the Queen reigns but does not rule, as she has no real power. Given that Honor was probably splintered, but now is worshiped pretty much across Roshar as the Almighty, then he 'reigns' over Roshar, considering he is seen as the ruler of the world, but does not rule it anymore as he has no power, due to being splintered. Given that it is likely Odium is actually coming to Roshar for the True Desolation (as opposed to already being there, as that would probably cause the destruction seen in Dalinars visions) then The Broken One is probably Honor, not Odium

Hmmm.. knowing Brandon, specific words used probably has great significance. Do you think then Honor, Cultivation, and whoever the 3rd is, Odium or another Shard, ruled together? I was thinking maybe this has to do with Vorinism? LIke before written history or what not all 3 Shards were worshipped(?) but with establishing Vorinism Honor became the focus. Hmm, but this actually brings up an interesting question. Do the people in Roshar know about Cultivation? Considering they know Honor as the Almighty and not 'Honor' technically they know Odium as the Enemy (or whatever can't remember if that is actually used... actually.. okay i'm totally not sure now..). But i don't think Cultivation has been mentioned except by Honor in the last vision (UNLESS Cultivation is the Nightwatcher, but I don't think so mainly because we've never seen a Shard directly approachable like that before). Except from the way Honor mentions it, he almost seems to assumes that the recipient would know who/what Cultivation is. Maybe this also goes into the whole 'reigns' vs 'rules' thing?

[Kaurne]

Hmmm.. knowing Brandon, specific words used probably has great significance. Do you think then Honor, Cultivation, and whoever the 3rd is, Odium or another Shard, ruled together? I was thinking maybe this has to do with Vorinism? LIke before written history or what not all 3 Shards were worshipped(?) but with establishing Vorinism Honor became the focus. Hmm, but this actually brings up an interesting question. Do the people in Roshar know about Cultivation? Considering they know Honor as the Almighty and not 'Honor' technically they know Odium as the Enemy (or whatever can't remember if that is actually used... actually.. okay i'm totally not sure now..). But i don't think Cultivation has been mentioned except by Honor in the last vision (UNLESS Cultivation is the Nightwatcher, but I don't think so mainly because we've never seen a Shard directly approachable like that before). Except from the way Honor mentions it, he almost seems to assumes that the recipient would know who/what Cultivation is. Maybe this also goes into the whole 'reigns' vs 'rules' thing?

Well, in the flashback with the two Knights Radiant, the woman does use 'Three Gods' as a curse, which implies that not only were all three known about but also that they formed part of a religion. And no, I don't think Odium is known by the time of tWoK - the Voidbringers are 'the Enemy'. And Cultivation is only mentioned once, in the final vision, but She is probably still known about in Shinovar.

[Aeshdan he/him]

Maybe Odium arrived when the desolations started?

It does lead to a question, though. Namely: Since Odium is intact, why is he called The Broken One?

What if Odium is behind the Dark Talent?

[Aeshdan he/him]

Assuming that the Broken One is Odium (which seems fairly safe, given what we know) I'd imagine it has something to do with his history or personality that we don't know yet. It might also be a poetic way of referring to how horrible he is (ie, he's "broken" spiritually) but that doesn't seem quite right to me- surely a Shard named Odium running around causing misery and destruction is perfectly fulfilling the purpose (or Intent, to borrow Chaos' terminology) of his existence, and therefore wouldn't qualify as "Broken".

Or maybe Rayse is broken spiritually.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

What if Odium is behind the Dark Talent?

lol the Alcatraz series is not part of the Cosmere.

[fiveAM he/him]

Well, in the flashback with the two Knights Radiant, the woman does use 'Three Gods' as a curse, which implies that not only were all three known about but also that they formed part of a religion. And no, I don't think Odium is known by the time of tWoK - the Voidbringers are 'the Enemy'. And Cultivation is only mentioned once, in the final vision, but She is probably still known about in Shinovar.

Oo~ thanks I totally didn't catch that at all... It's so funny how you can read something (multiple times) and just gloss it over.

If Odium is the Broken One, why do you think that is? Somehow I think it might be that Odium is unable to create life on Shardworlds unlike the other Shards. Just a feeling but i think it would have something to do with his Intent but don't really have a specific theory yet, maybe his Intent has completely consumed him so that only the Intent remains? Either that, or during the shattering of Adonalsium, Odium's Shard got messed up somehow and has some sort of defect.

[Wispsy he/him]

any1 reckon battar could be a shard? altho i guess it is kinda a symmetrical name so may be more likely is herald, but if she is using gods as curses means battar could be god!

[Kelek he/him]

Do we have the interview posted up? I haven't seen this in the signings. (possible overlook from overload of awesome interview info)

[Chaos he/him]

It happened Thursday. Zas said he was working on a report, though. He probably waited because he also went to Saturday's signing. Have no fear, I assume it will be up soon.

[Kelek he/him]

Awesome! I can't wait to read it. I would really like to see how the question/answer was worded. Authors are trixy, my precious. Yes, trixy.

[Rayonn]

I would really like to see how the question/answer was worded. Authors are trixy, my precious. Yes, trixy.

What worries me is that none of the shards are literally native to the worlds they created, because that would imply they originated there. It seems more accurate to say, for example, that Scadrial is native to Ruin and Preservation than that they are native to it. (Bizarre use of 'native' though). On they other hand, I don't see Brandon being intentionally misleading about an answer in this way.

Also, I'm fairly certain 'the Broken One' is Odium, because of the parallel between the death-quote and the voice Kaladin hears while riding the highstorm. The last thing the voice says is, 'ODIUM REIGNS'.

Perhaps Odium reigns because the people on Roshar act in accord with his Intent (at least the Alethi seem to, with Kaladin, Dalinar, and others as notable exceptions; we haven't seen that much of other societies), but does not rule because enough of Honor, Cultivation, and possibly a third shard are still around to oppose him and prevent him from working his will unconstrained.

Finally, if Odium is not one of the Three who once ruled, who might the third be? Is it possible that some of things we've assumed are of Odium are actually of the third, unknown shard? Perhaps Parshendi/parshmen are voidbringers, but voidbringers are not the threat we think they are.