Surviving being a hemalurgic donor

[Kendelian he/him]

I think it might be possible to survive having part of your soul ripped out of you with the help of someone who can bind the surge of Progression. I think this because in interlude I-19 isn’t WoR, we read about someone revive someone who was mortally wounded via Regrowth. I think that something similar could be applied to someone stabbed in the heart by a hemalurgic spike. I’m unsure if the spiritweb can be mended in a similar fashion, however.

[Ravenclawjedi42]

I forget exactly, but I seem to recall some sort of non-violent Hemalurgy in era 2? I don’t really remember it though. I do think, in this case, that while progression could bring the person back to life, their spiritweb would be beyond repair, like being a Drab on Nalthis, except worse.

[Treamayne]

This has some merit, if only because we know Miles could possibly survive. WoBs:

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Kurkistan

Could Miles heal back his Allomancy if it was spiked out of him?

Brandon Sanderson

No, he could not. He would no longer be an Allomancer. Also, he'd probably be dead. 

Kurkistan

Thanks!

I'd thought maybe he could just do some super-tapping from his existing Health in his goldminds (since he'd still have his Feruchemy)...

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, I see what you're asking. Using Feruchemy to heal the removed portion of soul. That's actually plausible, not so different from healing other kinds of soul-wounds. If he survived, then yes, this actually might work. (That's why I get for reading the questions so quickly.)

 

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Kurkistan

If you spiked out Miles' Feruchemical gold, would he be able to burn his Allomantic reserves [read: Feruchemical reserves using Allomancy] and heal it back?

Brandon Sanderson

If you spiked out his ability to heal gold and somehow left him alive?

Kurkistan

Yeah, but still having Allomancy.

Brandon Sanderson

Still has Allomancy...

Kurkistan

And he’s like in the middle of burning a goldmind.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that would still work. It'd still have a Spiritual Connection to him.

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Questioner

So, Miles Hundredlives. If you were to spike his Allomantic gold out of him, would that change his Identity such that he could no longer access his metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

That would not necessarily change his Identity, but it would change his Investiture. So if you took off the piece of his soul that could do Allomancy, and then gave him his metalminds. Well, no... No, this is more complicated than I was assuming. So you're saying if someone took away his ability to do Allomancy, could he still access his Feruchemy metalminds. Yes he could. He could still do that. That should work just fine. 

Questioner

Do the metalminds kind of have a pointer to his Identity, they don't have a copy of his Identity that they're keyed to? 

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah... he is still him unless you spike him and do something with the Identity specifically. 

 

 

[Quantus he/him]

Yup, it's totally possible with some quantitative limitations.  Here's a pretty direct and consolidated WOB on the topic.

 

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HazelCharm47

Let's say we have a hypothetical situation with Miles Hundredlives. In this scenario, he is wearing a gold metalmind filled to the brim with stored healing power. He is then spiked with a cadmium spike and loses his gold allomancy.

Now, if I recall from various WoBs, he would be able to heal using the gold metalmind and regain his gold allomancy. I could be misremembering and he cannot heal it, but I believe he would be able to since it is part of his Identity.

However, one question I have never seen the answer to is this: what happens to the ability in the spike? Is the allomantic ability still contained in the spike, leading to a duplicate? Or is the spike's ability lost? Or maybe I have this whole thing wrong and Miles could never have regained the ability in the first place.

If the ability duplicates (which I doubt), that could lead to some crazy things. Also, this applies to any Twinborn with gold Feruchemy, I just thought Miles was a good example I guess

Brandon Sanderson

I'd like to see the exact WoB's here to make sure I'm being consistent, as I don't know that I confirmed you could regain lost powers--only that you could heal from hemalurgic soul damage. Most likely, what you'd end up with is a person who has been healed and can remove the spike from their body without damage, and without needing it to hold their soul together--but who has lost the ability in the spike.

Regardless, though, what you want here (the mass production of spikes charged and even blanked) is possible with the right levels of investiture. It's an energy, like things in our world. The difficulty is finding out how to 1) get enough investiture and 2) key it to the right people and/or magic.

Hope that's a little more clear.

That said, a lot of times people just ask me if something is possible--and a lot of things are possible, but just very difficult. And with the right boost of investiture, in the right circumstances, it WOULD be possible to regrow lost (to spikes) powers. It's just highly unlikely.

I'm not sure if the questions people are asking me are ones I've qualified, or not, in these instances. Also, this is all something I'm playing with still behind the scenes as we enter the modern age of Mistborn.

HazelCharm47

As requested, here are the WoBs I believe are related. They might be obsolete, however. And I assume things will get changed a lot before Era 4, but hey, it's fun to ask anyways

WoB #1:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/331/#e9434

This one states that as long as Miles still has his Identity, he would be able to use his Feruchemical metalminds after being spiked and would be able to heal.

WoB #2:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/102/#e983

This one says that Miles would be able to heal his soul using Feruchemical healing and regain his gold Allomancy (assuming he survives the spiking). I think this is the most essential one!

WoB #3:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6335

This one is only somewhat related - implies that the Feruchemical and Allomantic powers are spiritually part of him.

WoB #4:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/7/#e6435

Also tangentially related - damage to the soul from Hemalurgy can be healed (Although this might just be a Hoid thing). I guess the question could be expanded to include non-Feruchemical healing as a way to repair the soul after being spiked.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, I don't think any of those are specifically inaccurate. I just didn't quite understand what people were trying to get out of me. A lot of times, I don't know quite what people are trying to get out of me. I can see now they're trying to figure out.

I see now, and I appreciate you putting this all together for me so I can see what the fans are trying to figure out. So the answer is a cautious yes. The problem here is that he'd need to compound a TON of healing first--but yes, it would work. You could theoretically turn someone like Miles into an invested spike factory.

If he didn't have enough healing stored, though, he'd end up with a healed soul but a gap (like a scar on his soul) where his spiked-out abilities were. That could theoretically be healed with application of more investiture, depending on things like how he views himself, and if you could get the right type of investiture.

General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Quantus

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Kendelian said:

I think it might be possible to survive having part of your soul ripped out of you with the help of someone who can bind the surge of Progression. I think this because in interlude I-19 isn’t WoR, we read about someone revive someone who was mortally wounded via Regrowth. I think that something similar could be applied to someone stabbed in the heart by a hemalurgic spike. I’m unsure if the spiritweb can be mended in a similar fashion, however.

Yes, many types of healing can heal spiritual wounds, that include F-gold healing. You can recover your power with enough healing as it would patch the stolen part of the soul with the same thing. But the healing has to be done in the moment of spiking. 

Spoiler

Questioner

If a Shardblade was put through Wayne's eye, would he able to use his ability to [heal the wound]?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, he should be able to heal that.

Oathbringer Leeds signing (Dec. 1, 2017)

I don't know if Regrowth would be able to heal a soul, as healing someone else is a weaker method of healing, and has some limitations:

Spoiler

Questioner

A character in The Stormlight Archive who eventually was able to heal of a wound. An old wound, and normally healing old wounds, with Regrowth, can't be healed.

Brandon Sanderson

This is a limitation of healing someone else, versus healing yourself. Healing someone else is a weaker method, at least as it's understood by the Radiants currently. Figuring out how to make Regrowth fix older wounds is more difficult. When you are highly Invested in such a way that you have a spren bond, then you are able to kind of rewrite your Spiritual self to better match your Cognitive self. Basically, what your soul is better comes to match your perception of your soul and who you are, and who you want to be becomes more important. And because of that, the Radiant bond is able to heal things and even change physiology that normal Regrowth wouldn't be capable of doing.

Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020)

 

Btw this topic should be in the Cosmere Discussion subforum, as it includes spoilers from SA.

 

1 hour ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

I forget exactly, but I seem to recall some sort of non-violent Hemalurgy in era 2? I don’t really remember it though. I do think, in this case, that while progression could bring the person back to life, their spiritweb would be beyond repair, like being a Drab on Nalthis, except worse.

Yes, in TLM they did it but they only took innate investiture, not powers. We don't know if you could do the same with stealing powers, but I think that's unlikely. 

[Firesong she/her]

7 hours ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

I forget exactly, but I seem to recall some sort of non-violent Hemalurgy in era 2? I don’t really remember it though. I do think, in this case, that while progression could bring the person back to life, their spiritweb would be beyond repair, like being a Drab on Nalthis, except worse.

Not exactly right. It was 100% still violent. It still required you to pin somebody down and forcibly pierce the needle through their flesh. Non-lethal, though, yes. But it is very unpleasant and has a lot of side-effects we have not seen yet. 

And yeah, healing somebody after a wound from hemalurgy isn't the same as doing it to one mortally wounded by say, a sword. A sword can only rend the flesh, hemalurgy tears out parts of the Spiritweb itself. That goes far beyond normal healing.