Quick Fix Game 67: Down the Rabbit-Hole

[Sart he/him]

This was a lot of fun. I liked all the time shenanigans that ended up causing chaos.

Although, I have to admit, I think this was a bit too complicated for a QF. This probably should have been a MR.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

@Fifth Scholar In the spec doc you said you wargamed scenarios and were unable to cause a Paradox, so you thought the game was safe. I believe you're incorrect, and that the game was actually perilously close to such a paradox.

If, in cycle 3, I used Pepper on Ash (assume Ash attempted to eat something in cycle 2), then Ash wouldn't have been able to prevent Sart from attending the party c1. This would have meant that I was unable to attend (since I was the seventh attempt) and thus I was never cursed by time. But if I was never cursed by time, my Pepper applies in c3, and doesn't change anything; thus, I am cursed after all. Paradox.

We are very lucky I wasn't motivated to try and RB Ash.

 

[JNV]

33 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

@Fifth Scholar In the spec doc you said you wargamed scenarios and were unable to cause a Paradox, so you thought the game was safe. I believe you're incorrect, and that the game was actually perilously close to such a paradox.

If, in cycle 3, I used Pepper on Ash (assume Ash attempted to eat something in cycle 2), then Ash wouldn't have been able to prevent Sart from attending the party c1. This would have meant that I was unable to attend (since I was the seventh attempt) and thus I was never cursed by time. But if I was never cursed by time, my Pepper applies in c3, and doesn't change anything; thus, I am cursed after all. Paradox.

We are very lucky I wasn't motivated to try and RB Ash.

No actually cause you wouldve roleblocked Ash C2 and Ashs tea block action was C1 so cause we decided free actions werent cursed because then Tea Party nonsense becomes wonky youd block them eating something if they ate something and their sit to tea and their Scars kill submitted C3 that took effect C2 so if youd done that and they ate something what you would have done would be ruin the Tea Party wincon no paradoxes at all 

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

3 hours ago, JNV said:

No actually cause you wouldve roleblocked Ash C2 and Ashs tea block action was C1 so cause we decided free actions werent cursed because then Tea Party nonsense becomes wonky youd block them eating something if they ate something and their sit to tea and their Scars kill submitted C3 that took effect C2 so if youd done that and they ate something what you would have done would be ruin the Tea Party wincon no paradoxes at all 

Ah, fair. Then we weren’t actually close, but the situation can be tweaked to create an actual paradox. If, instead of Ash, it was Stick who stopped Sart C1, allowing me to be cursed, and I then used Pepper on Stick in C2 (this again assumes Stick eats some food to trigger the Pepper RB), preventing her from preventing Sart, I think that resolves the issues caused by Ash's Time Curse, and ACTUALLY causes a paradox.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Wonko the Sane

[JNV]

43 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

Ah, fair. Then we weren’t actually close, but the situation can be tweaked to create an actual paradox. If, instead of Ash, it was Stick who stopped Sart C1, allowing me to be cursed, and I then used Pepper on Stick in C2 (this again assumes Stick eats some food to trigger the Pepper RB), preventing her from preventing Sart, I think that resolves the issues caused by Ash's Time Curse, and ACTUALLY causes a paradox.

Well double no cause the roleblock would block Sticks attempt to sit to tea so youd show up anyway and get cursed even if Sart isnt kicked out

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

Just now, JNV said:

Well double no cause the roleblock would block Sticks attempt to sit to tea so youd show up anyway and get cursed even if Sart isnt kicked out

Listen, I'm constructing a thought experiment here, quit it with your confounding details.  Suppose Stick didn't attend the tea party in the first place, but someone else did. My point is, it is possible for situations to arise where a player can use their Time Curse to prevent said curse from existing, so paradoxes ARE possible in the game.

[JNV]

2 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

Listen, I'm constructing a thought experiment here, quit it with your confounding details.  Suppose Stick didn't attend the tea party in the first place, but someone else did. My point is, it is possible for situations to arise where a player can use their Time Curse to prevent said curse from existing, so paradoxes ARE possible in the game.

Honestly if this ever actually happened in the actual game wed probably give up and make pepper a free action so it wouldnt get affected by the time curse with an extra caveat of cant use pepper while eating any other item or make a special ability of Schrodingers curse where your actions are sent back in time 50 percent of the time but also we could prevent this situation and kind of did prevent this situation by not starting the Hatter with food 

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

35 minutes ago, JNV said:

Honestly if this ever actually happened in the actual game wed probably give up and make pepper a free action so it wouldnt get affected by the time curse with an extra caveat of cant use pepper while eating any other item or make a special ability of Schrodingers curse where your actions are sent back in time 50 percent of the time but also we could prevent this situation and kind of did prevent this situation by not starting the Hatter with food 

I have an alternative for you that bypasses starting items and making Pepper a free action, though Schrodingers Curse can prevent it if you’re willing to fudge the 50% odds.

Cycle 1, the March Hare attempts to attend the Tea Party and become uncursed. Based on his position in the attempt order, he would have been successful — except that the Mad Hatter blocks his attempt that same turn. At the same time, the Hare is invited into the Cards doc. Cycle 2, the Hare redirects the Hatter’s action onto another player; due to the curse, this happens Cycle 1, redirecting the block, allowing the Hare to attend the party, curing the time curse, and thus preventing the redirect from working.

But like I said, this is solved by a 50% time curse, or really any rule that says “you’re still Cursed by Time, but the action where you try and prevent the original cursing won’t be time traveled”.

I have a number of these paradoxes, by the way.  You’re lucky I didn’t understand the curse earlier, or I would’ve been tempted to throw my win condition and spend all my social power trying to engineer a paradox.

[Elandera she/her]

Thank you Fifth for this unique blackout! I particularly enjoy the spoiled rules doc.  Congratulations to the Red Team!

As always, if anyone would like to try their hand at running a game, please get ahold of Wilson, Devotary of Spontaneity, Elbereth, Araris Valerian, Elandera, or StrikerEZ, or post in the GM Signups & Discussion Thread. Not only will we get you added to the list, but we'd also be more than willing to help out in any way we can. 

You can also ask questions and get some hints and feedback from everyone in our Art of Game Creation thread. With all the games that we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs that can help you refine any game you're thinking about. If you would rather keep some detail secret, or are self-conscious about posting in thread (there's really no need to be; while we do slaughter each other, we are very polite about it), then I'm sure one of our fantastic committee members (Amanuensis, STINK, Sart, Fifth Scholar, Straw, Archer, and Kasimir) would be more than willing to help you out in private.

Thanks again to everyone that played, and we look forward to killing seeing you in future games!