Does each surge relate to a specific principle?

[Elite01]

I've been wondering for a while why each Knight Radiant order shares a specific surge with a different order. While this could be a coincidence I think it's more likely that an order's ideal is shaped by the combination of its surges and its respective theme.

For example, truthwatchers and lightweavers both are centered on truth but have different views on them (societal truth and personal truth). I believe that these different perspectives on truth are changed by the secondary surge each order possesses and it changes how the order views truth.

This could theoretically help us understand the other orders better if we can isolate each surges "theme" and then predict how these themes mix together. For example, if we could figure out the themes of abrasion and progression (edgedancer) then we could figure out the themes of abrasion and division (dustbringer) 

I tried to create an ideal of some kind for each surge and want to know y'alls thoughts.

Abrasion - Willpower? (This is kind of a shot in the dark, willshapers need a strong will for their powers and edgedancers need a strong will or commitment to care for those easily ignored)

Adhesion - Connection (Dalinar's theme of uniting and the tight-knit squads windrunners form)

Cohesion - Agency (willshapers focus on free will and stonewards choose to become dependable?)

Gravitation - Honor

Illumination - truth

Progression -selflessness

Transformation - self-improvement (Jasnah focuses on self improvement and the truths lightweavers reveal help them improve) 

Transportation - exploration

Tension? 

Definitely needs some polish but I think there is something there. What do you think and are there any suggestions? 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Elite01
typo

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1 hour ago, Elite01 said:

I've been wondering for a while why each Knight Radiant order shares a specific surge with a different order. While this could be a coincidence I think it's more likely that an order's ideal is shaped by the combination of its surges and its respective theme.

For example, truthwatchers and lightweavers both are centered on truth but have different views on them (societal truth and personal truth). I believe that these different perspectives on truth are changed by the secondary surge each order possesses and it changes how the order views truth.

This could theoretically help us understand the other orders better if we can isolate each surges "theme" and then predict how these themes mix together. For example, if we could figure out the themes of abrasion and progression (edgedancer) then we could figure out the themes of abrasion and division (dustbringer) 

I tried to create an ideal of some kind for each surge and want to know y'alls thoughts.

Spoiler

Abrasion - Willpower? (This kind of a shot in the dark, willshapers need a strong will for their powers and edgedancers need a strong will or commitment to care for those easily ignored)

Adhesion - Connection (Dalinar's theme of uniting and the tight-knit squads windrunners form)

Cohesion - Agency (willshapers focus on free will and stonewards choose to become dependable?)

Gravitation - Honor

Illumination - truth

Progression -selflessness

Transformation - self-improvement (Jasnah focuses on self improvement and the truths lightweavers reveal help them improve) 

Transportation - exploration

Tension? 

 

Definitely needs some polish but I think there is something there. What do you think and are there any suggestions? 

Interesting theory. Personally, I think the cause/effect relationship is the opposite. We already know from Brandon that each surge is a fundamental force (Gravitation, Division, Abrasion, etc.). We also know that the surges and surgebinding predate the Orders of Knight Radiant (by a lot). Finally, we know that the surges are paired in the way they are because Honor chose those pairings for a specific reason (though we do not yet know the reason). Rough partial Timeline:

Spoiler

• Humans arrive from Ashyn
• Honor pairs Surges and crafts the Honorblades for the Heralds
• Spren say "we can do that too" and start forming Nahel bonds to mimic the Honorblades
• Orders are codified and bound by Oaths to limit the access to surges and provide failsafes

I don't think an order's oaths were influenced by the Surges - I think an order's method of accessing the surge is defined by their oath's and the order's relationship with that surge. For example, we know that the Bondsmith's access to Adhesion and Tension is different from a Windrunner's Adhesion or a Stoneward's Tension. Adhesion is still manipulating the surge of connetion and binding, the orders just do different things with that based on thier Oaths. Tension is still the surge of soft axial interconnection, but again the orders use that surge differently. We also saw that Venli used Cohesion (the surge of Strong axial interconnection) differently than the Makay-im using the same surge. The surge hasn;t changed - the intent behind how thay are accessing it is what has changed.

Unfortunately, there haven't been many surges we have seen from many different aspects yet to really grasp how much is similar or different between orders or between Radiants and Fused.

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

7 hours ago, Elite01 said:

I've been wondering for a while why each Knight Radiant order shares a specific surge with a different order. While this could be a coincidence I think it's more likely that an order's ideal is shaped by the combination of its surges and its respective theme.

For example, truthwatchers and lightweavers both are centered on truth but have different views on them (societal truth and personal truth). I believe that these different perspectives on truth are changed by the secondary surge each order possesses and it changes how the order views truth.

This could theoretically help us understand the other orders better if we can isolate each surges "theme" and then predict how these themes mix together. For example, if we could figure out the themes of abrasion and progression (edgedancer) then we could figure out the themes of abrasion and division (dustbringer) 

I’ve thought about this myself, you can definitely see some patterns in the personalities of groups that share a Surge, although it can be hard to pin down. I think it’s also useful to look at the Fused since they are defined by the Surges as much as the Knight Radiants. I think these principles/themes might be the Cognitive and sometimes Spiritual aspects of the Surge, as opposed to their more physics-based Physical aspects.

My ideas for the list:
Adhesion: establishing trust/responsibility (this is fairly explicit with Honour and f-duralumin)
Gravitation: authority and attention (Connection focused on a person)
Division: impartiality and selflessness (both Dustbringers and Skybreakers externalise their morality)
Abrasion: sympathy and influence (friction is basically how much two things will move with each other)
Progression: maturing and augmenting (has less of a personality itself but modifies other Surges)
Illumination: revelation/understanding (fairly self-explanatory)
Transformation: individuality (both Orders have personalised oaths)
Transportation: independence and the self (both Orders and the Brand insist on going their own way)
Cohesion: conformity/consistency (both Orders look at group dynamics, the makay-im act as a single unit)
Tension: integrity and power (mostly guessing at this one)

[BoundbyOath he/him]

Division seems to be focused on reponsibility. Basically "With great power comes great responsibility." The difference between skybreakers and dustbringers seems to be how they take responsibility. Dustbringers seem to do so via internal self-mastery whereas Skybringers do so via submission to an external set of laws. The dustbringer half is less certain since we haven't seen much of them, but the profile of the order from the radiant quiz mentions this idea of self-mastery.