Shallan's deserters

[Keto]

The plot arc of WoR involves Shallan coming across a group of deserters - a group of bloodthirsty ex-soldiers, most of whom have supposedly done heinous crimes putting them beyond easy redemption. As Shallan gradually approached the shattered plains in her convoy, one of the main tensions in the plot was what would happen to the deserters once they reached. Tyn was quite sure that Shallan would have serious problems in getting pardons for their crimes and implied heavily that Shallan would have to sacrifice them.

By all intents, Tyn was right. The Alethi, especially Sadeas (from whose army most of the deserters came from) take deserting very seriously. They're a warlike society which puts fighting as the most important thing a man can do, so obviously deserting would be an extremely serious crime. On top of that, the deserters have done other major crimes as well. But nothing comes out of this potential plot point. Shallan (who was a near unknown entity at that point in time) tells Dalinar "they're heroes, they saved lives". Dalinar agrees, issues pardons and that's it. Nothing more is talked about it through the books.

This has kind of bugged me, their crimes just vanished with a wave of the hand, and this seldom happens in the real world. Sadeas should have thrown up a major objection, using this pardon against Dalinar. No one tries to get revenge on the deserters, like Gaz's creditors coming for him (and Shallan being forced to rescue him), Sadeas men don't try to harm them, and I'd have expected Ialai to send assassins to kill them, as a way of subtly warning others what would happen to people daring to desert Sadeas' army. At the very least, Dalinar, a soldier to the core should have had difficulty in agreeing to pardon deserters.

Basically, I feel Shallan should have had to work harder and been forced to make sacrifices and some hard decisions to get the deserters freed, Everything has consequences and those are completely missing here.

 

[alder24]

13 minutes ago, Keto said:

The plot arc of WoR involves Shallan coming across a group of deserters - a group of bloodthirsty ex-soldiers, most of whom have supposedly done heinous crimes putting them beyond easy redemption. As Shallan gradually approached the shattered plains in her convoy, one of the main tensions in the plot was what would happen to the deserters once they reached. Tyn was quite sure that Shallan would have serious problems in getting pardons for their crimes and implied heavily that Shallan would have to sacrifice them.

By all intents, Tyn was right. The Alethi, especially Sadeas (from whose army most of the deserters came from) take deserting very seriously. They're a warlike society which puts fighting as the most important thing a man can do, so obviously deserting would be an extremely serious crime. On top of that, the deserters have done other major crimes as well. But nothing comes out of this potential plot point. Shallan (who was a near unknown entity at that point in time) tells Dalinar "they're heroes, they saved lives". Dalinar agrees, issues pardons and that's it. Nothing more is talked about it through the books.

This has kind of bugged me, their crimes just vanished with a wave of the hand, and this seldom happens in the real world. Sadeas should have thrown up a major objection, using this pardon against Dalinar. No one tries to get revenge on the deserters, like Gaz's creditors coming for him (and Shallan being forced to rescue him), Sadeas men don't try to harm them, and I'd have expected Ialai to send assassins to kill them, as a way of subtly warning others what would happen to people daring to desert Sadeas' army. At the very least, Dalinar, a soldier to the core should have had difficulty in agreeing to pardon deserters.

Basically, I feel Shallan should have had to work harder and been forced to make sacrifices and some hard decisions to get the deserters freed, Everything has consequences and those are completely missing here.

Those deserters decided to help against bandit attack, saving innocent people and Shallan, Adolin's fiance who just survived assassination of Jasnah and sinking of the ship. Then they protected her during the remaining journey and saved her again from Tyn's people. They've proven themself to Dalinar. 

Sadeas doesn't care about deserters that much, he's after bigger fish - Dalinar. He didn't care about lost bridgemen and Kaladin, who cost him his victory at the Tower, so why would he care about some nameless deserters? Plus they were now under the protection of Sebarial, who was seen as neutral in the conflict between Dalinar and Sadeas - why risk making a new enemy with a failed assassination attempt? Deserters and Sadeas men were separated by several camps, there was no opportunity for them to meet.

Shallan also promised to take care of their debts, so I guess she paid off Gaz's debt. Even if not, he was in debt because of gambling, so they wouldn't be some powerful rich people risking conflict with Adolin.

 

But this could be expanded a bit, you're right. It could be made into some cool scenes like you suggested. However the book was already massive, and Shallan was focused on so many things that making her solve the problems of her men (which she ignored for almost the entire book, and many of them left her because of that) would be simply too much. She already had to make hard decisions and sacrifices. I don't feel this plot is missing.

[Treamayne]

53 minutes ago, Keto said:

The plot arc of WoR involves Shallan coming across a group of deserters - a group of bloodthirsty ex-soldiers, most of whom have supposedly done heinous crimes putting them beyond easy redemption.

<snip>

Basically, I feel Shallan should have had to work harder and been forced to make sacrifices and some hard decisions to get the deserters freed, Everything has consequences and those are completely missing here.

17 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Those deserters decided to help against bandit attack, saving innocent people and Shallan, Adolin's fiance who just survived assassination of Jasnah and sinking of the ship. Then they protected her during the remaining journey and saved her again from Tyn's people. They've proven themself to Dalinar. 

<snip>

But this could be expanded a bit, you're right. It could be made into some cool scenes like you suggested. However the book was already massive, and Shallan was focused on so many things that making her solve the problems of her men (which she ignored for almost the entire book, and many of them left her because of that) would be simply too much. She already had to make hard decisions and sacrifices. I don't feel this plot is missing.

We do not know their crimes were heinous (at least, not necessarily the ones they deserted for - Vathah implies their wirst deeds were after deserting):

Spoiler

“Bandits,” Shallan said. “They’re attacking our friends in the caravan just two hills over. It’s a slaughter! I said I’d seen soldiers back here, moving toward the Shattered Plains. Nobody believed me. Please. You must help.”

Again, they just stared at her. A little like the mink wandering into the whitespine’s den and asking when dinner is . . . she thought. Finally, the men shuffled uneasily and turned toward a man near the center. Tall, bearded, he had arms that looked too long for his body.

“Bandits, you say,” the man replied, voice empty of emotion.

Shallan leaped down from the wagon and walked toward the man, leaving Bluth sitting as a silent lump. Deserters stepped away from her, wearing ripped and dirty clothing, with grizzled, unkempt hair and faces that hadn’t seen a razor—or a washcloth—in ages. And yet, by torchlight, their weapons gleamed without a spot of rust and their breastplates were polished to the point where they reflected her features.

The woman she glimpsed in one breastplate looked too tall, too stately, to be Shallan herself. Instead of tangled hair, she had flowing red locks. Instead of refugee rags, she wore a gown woven with golden embroidery. She had not been wearing a necklace before, and when she raised her hand toward the leader of the band, her chipped fingernails appeared perfectly manicured.

“Brightness,” the man said as she stepped up to him, “we aren’t what you think we are.”

“No,” Shallan replied. “You aren’t what you think yourselves to be.”

Those around her in the firelight regarded her with eager stares, and she felt the hair rising in a shiver across her body. Into the predator’s den indeed. Yet the tempest within her spurred her to action, and urged her to greater confidence.

The leader opened his mouth as if to give some order. Shallan cut him off. “What is your name?”

“I’m called Vathah,” the man said, turning toward his allies. It was a Vorin name, like Shallan’s own. “And I’ll decide what to do with you later. Gaz, take this one and—”

“What would you do, Vathah,” Shallan said in a loud voice, “to erase the past?”

He looked back toward her, face lit on one side by primal torchlight.

“Would you protect instead of kill, if you had the choice?” Shallan asked. “Would you rescue instead of rob if you could do it over again? Good people are dying as we speak here. You can stop it.”

Those dark eyes of his seemed dead. “We can’t change the past.”

“I can change your future.”

“We are wanted men.”

“Yes, I came here wanting men. Hoping to find men. You are offered the chance to be soldiers again. Come with me. I will see to it you have new lives. Those lives start by saving instead of killing.”

Vathah snorted in derision. His face looked unfinished in the night, rough, like a sketch. “Brightlords have failed us in the past.”

“Listen,” Shallan said. “Listen to the screams.”

The piteous sounds reached them from behind her. Shouts for help. Workers, both men and women, from the caravan. Dying. Haunting sounds. Shallan was surprised, despite having pointed them out, how well the sounds carried. How much they sounded like pleas for help.

“Give yourself another chance,” Shallan said softly. “If you return with me, I will see that your crimes are erased. I promise it to you, by all that I have, by the Almighty himself. You can start over. Start over as heroes.”

Vathah held her eyes. This man was stone. She could see, with a sinking feeling, that he wasn’t swayed. The tempest inside of her began to fade away, and her fears boiled higher. What was she doing? This was crazy!

Vathah looked away from her again, and she knew she’d lost him. He barked the order to take her captive.

Nobody moved. Shallan had focused only on him, not the other two dozen or so men, who had drawn in close, torches raised high. They looked at her with open faces, and she saw very little of the lust she’d noticed before. Instead, they bore wide eyes, longing, reacting to the distant yells. Men fingered their uniforms, where the insignias had been. Others looked down at spears and axes, weapons of their service perhaps not so long ago.

“You fools are considering this?” Vathah said.

One man, a short fellow with a scarred face and an eye patch, nodded his head. “I wouldn’t mind starting over,” he muttered. “Storms, but it would be nice.”

“I saved a woman’s life once,” another said, a tall, balding man who was easily into his forties. “I felt a hero for weeks. Toasts in the tavern. Warmth. Damnation! We’re dying out here.”

“We left to get away from their oppression!” Vathah bellowed.

“And what have we done with our freedom, Vathah?” a man asked from the back of the group.

In the silence that followed, Shallan could hear only the screams for help.

“Storm it, I’m going,” said the short man with the eye patch, jogging up the hill. Others broke off and followed him. Shallan turned—hands clasped in front of her—as nearly the entire group took off in a charge. Bluth stood up on his wagon, his shocked face showing in the torchlight that passed. Then he actually whooped, jumping down from the wagon and raising his cudgel high as he joined the deserters charging toward the battle.

Shallan was left with Vathah and two other men. Those seemed dumbfounded by what had just happened. Vathah folded his arms, letting out an audible sigh. “Idiots, every one.”

“They are not idiots for wanting to be better than they are,” Shallan said.

He snorted, looking her over. She had an immediate flash of fear. Moments ago, this man was ready to rob her and probably worse. He didn’t make any moves toward her, though his face looked even more threatening now that most of the torches had gone.

“Who are you?” he asked.

“Shallan Davar.”

“Well, Brightness Shallan,” he said, “I hope for your sake you can keep your word. Come on, boys. Let’s see if we can keep those fools alive.”

Also, keep timing in mind. The initial pardon from Elhokar (general verbiage - the one shown in book - ch 38) is less than 38 days (7 Rosharan weeks, 3/4s of a Rosharan month) before the Everstorm (well - 38 days as of Ch 33) - so about six weeks before Dalinar's party ventures into the Plains. That's not a lot of time for the Pardon subplot to go sideways (though elements of it could still appear in future books). Once in the Plains, Shallan is outed as a Radiant - and they have become her "team" (and eventualy Squires - with Gaz and Vathah becoming Radiant themselves). Unless something was much worse than Deserting, there is no chance somebody would have tried to oust a Radiant's team (especially one with a valid pardon on past crimes). At least not directly. 

 

[boolamoo]

Not to mention they were never branded with slave marks for their crime. They'd probably be overlooked.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

On 8/29/2023 at 2:29 PM, Keto said:

This has kind of bugged me, their crimes just vanished with a wave of the hand, and this seldom happens in the real world.

Umm really? Politicians..their children..CEOs..Generals..etc? I find this circumstance to be as realistic as can be.