How to (Safely) burn Harmonium

[Trusk'our he/him]

I was scouring the Arcanum for a completely unrelated other idea relating to Hemalurgy and A-bronze when I came across this: 

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/127/#e5124

Lurcher

Can you burn a metal wrapped in another metal, if both are Allomantic? Like, the inner metal, could you just burn that before?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you're gonna have to work your way through the outer one.

Lurcher

And what if it was a non-Allomantic metal? The same?

Brandon Sanderson

It's gonna depend on how thick it is, and stuff. But I would say, if you wrap it in a non-Allomantic metal, that's not good for getting to the metal. It's viable, but it just depends on how thick it is, and things like that. Like, sometimes things have been plated to keep the access to the metal off, but usually you would want to do that in aluminum, to make sure.

This would mean that it is in fact possible to give a very thin coating of a non-Allomantic metal over a bead of Harmonium (just enough to cover it and keep it from reacting to your body's moisture), then burn the Harmonium.

So, maybe burning Harmonium doesn't have to be about Compounding Health after all.

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

I was scouring the Arcanum for a completely unrelated other idea relating to Hemalurgy and A-bronze when I came across this: 

This would mean that it is in fact possible to give a very thin coating of a non-Allomantic metal over a bead of Harmonium (just enough to cover it and keep it from reacting to your body's moisture), then burn the Harmonium.

So, maybe burning Harmonium doesn't have to be about Compounding Health after all.

Huh, that's interesting. That seems quite simple. You need to get inert, acid resistant metal and that's it. But you better find something that isn’t poisonous, otherwise you might kill yourself (that would still need health).

 

 

On a different note, do you think tapping heat from Brassmind makes your body dry? Would storing water in a Bendalloy mind make your body dry? If yes you can use those methods to safely swallow Harmonium, as your stomach is filled with acid which will isolate Harmonium from water (mostly).

[+Invocation]

33 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Would storing water in a Bendalloy mind make your body dry?

I think if you managed to store enough for that, you'd turn yourself into jerky.

33 minutes ago, alder24 said:

On a different note, do you think tapping heat from Brassmind makes your body dry?

Likewise, I think heatstroke would be the least of your worries if you tried to trap that much heat at once. 

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Invocation said:

I think if you managed to store enough for that, you'd turn yourself into jerky.

Likewise, I think heatstroke would be the least of your worries if you tried to trap that much heat at once. 

Oh, not that much. We know that F-brass somehow protects you from effects of low or high heat, just like Feruchemy usually does - I wonder if that includes protecting water from evaporating. It should. But all water in your body, or like saliva doesn't count and would evaporate? You need to only make sure that your mouth and upper digestive tract is dry, which can be done without death. That means you need to dehydrate yourself. Thankfully with Feruchemy you might be able to achieve that without suffering, be able to ingest Harmonium, burn it and tap metalminds to provide water. Brassminds probably aren't a way to go, as the nature of Feruchemy would protect you from harm, but Bendalloyminds probably can allow you to burn Harmonium safely. Just having Harmonium in your mouth allows you to burn it, you don't even need to swallow it. In that case you need to make sure that your mouth is dry, and the air around you is dry as well. 

[The Stormfather He/Him]

if you were burning duralumin as you swallowed it, would it instantly burn as it entered your mouth?

[Trusk'our he/him]

5 hours ago, The stormfather said:

if you were burning duralumin as you swallowed it, would it instantly burn as it entered your mouth?

Hmmm. That also sounds like a plausible way to burn Harmonium, though you'd have to do it just right- you'd have to get it into your body far enough that you could burn it but without getting it wet.

Maybe you could swallow a tube that dropped Harmonium directly into your stomach without getting it wet?

[The Stormfather He/Him]

maybe.

[Duxredux he/him]

As I look at this the question really boils down to at what point a swallowed metal becomes burnable and what degree or method of isolation is accessible.

First note, does anyone remember if Wax made a comment on the result of testing Harmonium with hydrochloric acid? Group 1 metals, also known as the alkali metals, are the ones that famously explode when dropped in water. That's lithium, sodium, potassium, etc. The thing is, they're even more reactive when introduced to an acid, such as the hydrochloric acid found in the stomach. Think acid and base (alkali) reactions. If the alkali metals are a good analog to Harmonium then trying to bypass the mouth to the stomach with openly exposed Harmonium probably will get you blown up.

That WoB at the top is specifically talking about metal, so I think nonmetals may provide even less restriction for an Allomancer to burn a metal in their stomach and that's where this gets a lot easier. It actually isn't that hard to get Harmonium into the stomach. Taking a note from Steris swapping the whiskey in Wax's metal vials out for cod liver oil, put the harmonium in a dietary supplement oil soft gel capsule. The real question is whether the gelatin and oil provide too much isolation for the person to burn the metal once it hits the stomach. Considering the stomach is a vat full of acid, having a bit of gelatin and oil probably won't make that much of difference. This wouldn't even be that hard to safely test as gelatin capsules can take 20-30 minutes if not more to dissolve enough to let the contents out. Get a regular Misting, stick the metal they usually burn in a capsule and then record how long it takes for them to get access to the power. If it's at all possible to burn a metal without it contacting stomach acid, this is the best and safest way I can think to check. It'd probably get RAFO'd but I think it's worth asking. Maybe we can frame it as a question on if an Allomancer can get a released time dosage of metal (for fighting Leechers) or if would all be immediately accessible, burnable, and Leechable despite the gelatin.

"If an Allomancer were to put their metal flakes in one of those timed-release medicine tablets, would that work for them to slowly gain access to their metal as a solution to fighting Leechers or would the the tablet not provide enough isolation and they would be able to burn it and get Leeched anyway?"

If answer is yes they could burn it immediately: "In that case, what if the metal was Harmonium? Would this be a viable way to safely burn Harmonium?"

If gelatin capsules haven't been invented yet or the metal has to contact the stomach itself, then get a Kandra to do it. Kandra can burn Lerasium, so presumably they can burn Harmonium. Just have a Kandra rework their digestive tract to not have anything reactive and have them swallow and try to burn it.

Quote

Jason Wright

If a kandra eats a bead of lerasium, can he burn it? Alternatively can he gain Allomancy via Hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes on both counts.

Goodreads: Ask the Author Q&A (Aug. 13, 2014)

Hm. This is from 2014. I wonder if this statement is still accurate. If Kelsier really is a Kandra and this works... and if get his hands on Lerasium... I'm guessing Kelsier's needed power level for the story will determine if these methods are viable or not.

Otherwise, Fake Secret History 2 opening as a call back to SH1:

"Kelsier burned Harmonium."

Edited September 7, 2023 by Duxredux
added thought

[alder24]

10 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

As I look at this the question really boils down to at what point a swallowed metal becomes burnable

It has to be in your body, not necessarily in your stomach, you can even burn spikes.

Spoiler

Matthew Grady

Does a metal need to be swallowed to be burned? Or can it be injected or snorted?

Brandon Sanderson

It could be either of those two things. Yes. Basically, metal into the body in any way is going to work, generally. There's nothing magical about the stomach, even though it works the best when we talk about it. It's just more intermixing the nature of the metal with your soul in the cosmere, your Spiritual entity, is what gives them that ability.

YouTube Livestream 10 (June 18, 2020)

 

Good idea with capsules, quite a simple one actually.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

"If an Allomancer were to put their metal flakes in one of those timed-release medicine tablets, would that work for them to slowly gain access to their metal as a solution to fighting Leechers or would the the tablet not provide enough isolation and they would be able to burn it and get Leeched anyway?"

That's a really smart idea- you could have a Metalborn get captured and have their metal reserves Leeched away, but then a portion of those stores become accessible soon after, allowing them a surprise burst of Allomantic strength. 

Love the idea!

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

If gelatin capsules haven't been invented yet or the metal has to contact the stomach itself, then get a Kandra to do it. Kandra can burn Lerasium, so presumably they can burn Harmonium. Just have a Kandra rework their digestive tract to not have anything reactive and have them swallow and try to burn it.

Also, good point on the Kandra. . . actually, I think this could be a great addition to my 101 Kandra Tricks thread, if you wanted 

[MistbornMathematician]

On 8/31/2023 at 4:34 PM, Trusk'our said:

This would mean that it is in fact possible to give a very thin coating of a non-Allomantic metal over a bead of Harmonium (just enough to cover it and keep it from reacting to your body's moisture), then burn the Harmonium.

Huh, that seems entirely plausible. I suppose the only thing to be worried about is picking the right metal to burn -- if you accidentally pick the non-Allomantic metal, you'll get very sick then, possibly, blow up. I would think that risk could be avoided by swallowing the non-Allomantic metal first, noting the "feel" of the metal, then swallowing the metal-wrapped Harmonium, and only burning the new one. 

On 9/1/2023 at 7:23 AM, alder24 said:

Bendalloyminds probably can allow you to burn Harmonium safely. Just having Harmonium in your mouth allows you to burn it, you don't even need to swallow it. In that case you need to make sure that your mouth is dry, and the air around you is dry as well.

If Harmonium is comparable to an alkali metal, it would cause severe burns to skin and especially mucosal tissue. Even sodium, which is much far, far less reactive than Harmonium, would horribly burn your mouth -- I would not recommend putting Harmonium in your mouth, even if you are careful to dry it out as much as possible. 

2 hours ago, Duxredux said:

"If an Allomancer were to put their metal flakes in one of those timed-release medicine tablets, would that work for them to slowly gain access to their metal as a solution to fighting Leechers or would the the tablet not provide enough isolation and they would be able to burn it and get Leeched anyway?"

This is a fantastic idea. Regardless of the answer, it's extremely useful.

2 hours ago, Duxredux said:

If gelatin capsules haven't been invented yet or the metal has to contact the stomach itself, then get a Kandra to do it. Kandra can burn Lerasium, so presumably they can burn Harmonium. Just have a Kandra rework their digestive tract to not have anything reactive and have them swallow and try to burn it.

Even if Harmonium isn't a God Metal that anyone can burn, the Kandra do have Lerasium now. Though I'd imagine that Sazed knows full and well what Harmonium actually does, so likely wouldn't be amenable to such a plan.