Is Honor really dead?

[JoeAgain he/him]

Actually, the Letter says that "Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered." This doesn't preclude the possibility that a shard can be splintered without killing its holder, but it's not as strong a hint at it as you might have liked.

[Arondell]

My understanding is that if the holder of a shard is killed the shard must be picked up in a relatively short period of time or the shard shatters.

 

In the case of Preservation Brandon is on record stating that when Laras finally died Kelsier's spirit in the cognitive realm took partial custody of Preservation until Vin could take full ownership.  Enough to keep it from splintering.

 

I would imagine that it would be far harder to shatter a shard without killing the holder.  After all as long as the holder lives the shard would be fighting back.  Unless it is revealed that Odium has some unique ability that can separate the holder from most of the power of the shard.

 

I didn't interpret "bound" in quite the way you did.   I don't think it was bound in the sense of a prison so much as bound in the sense of a contract.  So long as certain conditions are met Odium doesn't have free reign.

 

[Windrunner he/him]

We don't know that Shards Splinter when they have no holder. As far as I know, Brandon simply said that the people of Scadrial were lucky that Kel had taken the Shard, not what would happen if he hadn't.

[Arondell]

I'll grant you it isn't spelled out that a shard without a holder automatically splinters.  On the other hand of the four original shard holders who have been killed the only shard that didn't splinter, Preservation, was the one that was quickly picked up.

 

Perhaps Mr. Sanderson can be asked to clarify this at some future Q&A.

[Windrunner he/him]

Preservation,and Ruin as well, were also the only Shards whose holders was not killed by Odium, so far as we know. His goal is to make sure that there are no other beings at his power level. Splintering Shards is a taxing process for him, so it seems to me he wouldn't waste the energy if he didn't have to.

[Meg]

I'm a bit confused. In some of the last postings I got the impression that Splintering has to be the result of an attack on the Shard. 

 

We know that Honor is Splintered: 

 

 

Andrea Digney

Was Honor Splintered?
Brandon Sanderson

Was Honor Splintered? ooh someone's been paying attention, very much. I would say that yes Honor was Splintered. That is a very important question to be asking, someone really knows their stuff.

source

 

 

(Hoser gave this quote already on the first page.) 

 

In his case that sounds like the Splintering of Honor was a forced act (by Odium). I, personally, wouldn't say: "Honor is dead." but: "Tanavast is dead." While parts of a body can't live on their on, the Splinters do. 

 

 

But not all Splinters are the result of such forced acts. For example Endowment gives its Splinters (the Divine Breath) freely to the people who then become Returned. 

 

Hmm, now I'd like to know, whether really Odium killed Tanavast or if Rayse did this (respective Devotion and Dominion, too). 

 

Do we know whether Honor was Splintered because his body died? Or did Odium "kill" Honor and thus Honor's body died?  

[Shardlet he/him]

To my knowledge we have no information on the actual steps and mechanics of how Honor, Devotion, Dominion were splintered.  We know Odium splintered Devotion and Dominion and we know Odium is active on Roshar and Honor was splintered.  We also know that Aona, Skai, and Tanavast (the holders of Devotion, Dominion, and Honor) are dead.  We also see that Hoid (Wit) is making a more distinct pressence and taking more overt action on Roshar and the epilogue letter from TWoK indicates that Hoid is working against Odium.  This suggests to me that Odium's actions on Roshar are intended to splinter Honor and Cultivation and suggests that Odium played a significant role in Honor's splintering.

 

We also know that the longer someone holds a shard, the more the governing intent of the shard overtakes the personality and intent of the holder.  Howver, since Rayse's personality is at least largely inline with the intent of the shard Odium we don't know how much of what Odium does is according to Rayse's personal intent or Odium's intent (e.g., There is no Dana, only Zuul!). 

[hoser he/him]

I don't have quotes, but I have a sense that holding a Shard over time changes a body such that one cannot live without it.  I don't think it would have been possible for Tanavast to see Odium coming, make himself immortal like the Heralds, drop Honor and skive off. 

So, in the Mistborn trilogy, Vin and the Lord Ruler could take up power briefly and become slivers, but
when Leras dropped Preservation, he died and his body materialized.  But
maybe I am misremembering.  If I am misremembering, I am sure to be
corrected. 

[Shardlet he/him]

response to Hoser's spoiler:

I think is is more likely that Leras died, his body materialized and the shard was up for grabs.  In other words, his death preceded his body's separation from the shard rather than was caused by separation from the shard.

[Meg]

I don't have quotes, but I have a sense that holding a Shard over time changes a body such that one cannot live without it.  I don't think it would have been possible for Tanavast to see Odium coming, make himself immortal like the Heralds, drop Honor and skive off. 

So, in the Mistborn trilogy, Vin and the Lord Ruler could take up power briefly and become slivers, but

when Leras dropped Preservation, he died and his body materialized.  But

maybe I am misremembering.  If I am misremembering, I am sure to be

corrected. 

 

I searched for quotes but only found some about the intent changing the mind of a person that holds a Shard of Adonalsium and that there is a struggle. 

 

BRANDON SANDERSON (paraphrased)

Shards and Shard intents: Holding a Shard is a contest of willpower against the Shard that, over time, is very hard to resist.

Shards affect you over time, but your mind will not leave a permanent effect on the Shard. A holder's personality, however, does get to filter the Shard's intent, so to speak. However, if that holder no longer held that Shard, the Shard will not continue to be filtered by that person.

 

source

 

That struggle seems to me more a mental (I hope that's the right word) problem than a physical. 

 

 

response to Hoser's spoiler:

I think is is more likely that Leras died, his body materialized and the shard was up for grabs.  In other words, his death preceded his body's separation from the shard rather than was caused by separation from the shard.

 

This is one of my questions. Does the body die when the Shard is Splintered or is there a Splintering when the body dies? 

[Shardlet he/him]

This is one of my questions. Does the body die when the Shard is Splintered or is there a Splintering when the body dies? 

 

Well in the Ati and Leras case, we can see that the death of the holder does not directly cause splintering.  It is conceivable that a shard left without a holder could naturally shatter.  But, I expect it more likely will release energy according to it's pure intent without a guiding conciousness causing all kinds of problems.

 

Could you imagine pure Preservation being unleashed?  Talk about ultimate stagnation.

[Meg]

Well in the Ati and Leras case, we can see that the death of the holder does not directly cause splintering.  

 

That's a good point, thank you. I didn't realize this. 

[happyman he/him]

Could you imagine pure Preservation being unleashed?  Talk about ultimate stagnation.

 

The only things I could imagine being worse is having either

 

pure Ruin unleashed (even worse), or both released without control (probably the absolute worst).  Sazed probably saved the world in more than one way.