List of external arcana referenced

[+Oltux72 he/him]

Just to have this in one place:
 

• Zephyr spores
• Dawnshards
• The surge of Gravitation
• Steelpushing
• Awakening (not necessarily with Breaths)
• Steel Feruchemy
• Dead Shardblades
• Shades
• Manufacturing by Shades
• "Continuity Chains" - is that the gift Mraize gave Raboniel?
• Shade Control
• Purified Dor
• Medaillions? Or is the Scadrian scientist a Coinshot?
• Ashyn gravitation magic
• hemalurgy

Edited October 3, 2023 by Oltux72
overlooked hemalurgy

[Treamayne]

On 10/1/2023 at 6:34 PM, Oltux72 said:

Just to have this in one place:
 

• Zephyr spores
• Dawnshards
• The surge of Gravitation
• Steelpushing
• Awakening (not necessarily with Breaths)
• Steel Feruchemy
• Dead Shardblades
• Shades
• Manufacturing by Shades
• "Continuity Chains" - is that the gift Mraize gave Raboniel?
• Shade Control
• Purified Dor
• Medaillions? Or is the Scadrian scientist a Coinshot?
• Ashyn gravitation magic

Will you be updating your main post with responses?

Also:

• Surge of Division (as interaxial forces)
• Medallion (also referenced as the "key" tech)
• Hemalurgy
• "Hemalurgy" (see this post) related mechanics

Edited October 3, 2023 by Treamayne
Clarity / SPAG

[Dager000 He/Him]

36 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Will you be updating your main post with responses?

Also:

• Surge of Division (as interaxial forces)
• Medallion (also referenced as the "key" tech)
• "Hemalurgy" (see this post) related mechanics

Sigzil's mention that he could be turned into a useful spike was interesting to me, yeah. Unsurprisingly, I guess knowledge of Hemalurgy has spread through the cosmere (at least to some privileged groups), but I wonder what specific attribute they'd be stealing from him. Connection to his former Dawnshard seems likely, but also somewhat vague, as we know that things like Linguistic Connection are separate from other kinds of Connection -- and I would assume spike placement needs to be specific to get the right kind.

If I remember correctly, Spook got some info on Hemalurgy, but would it have gone that in-depth? Did Harmony become Discord (not sure how widely accepted this theory is as a possible route) and spread the specifics (intentionally or otherwise)? Or, most concerningly, did some other Shard (via an avatar/follower), or some influence on Scadrial (e.g. remnants of The Set) figure it out?

So much to look forward to learning about! And theorize about, for now.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Dager000

[Treamayne]

26 minutes ago, Dager000 said:

Did Harmony become Discord (not sure how widely accepted this theory is as a possible route) and spread the specifics (intentionally or otherwise)? Or, most concerningly, did some other Shard (via an avatar/follower), or some influence on Scadrial (e.g. remnants of The Set) figure it out?

So much to look forward to learning about! And theorize about, for now.

Doesn't even have to be any kind of Shardic intervention - there are enough Worldhoppers transiting Scadrial now, that exposure (during after Era 2) to Hemalurgy will be hard to keep quiet. Afterall, Kelsier is openly using it within the Ghostbloods, and we've already seen it implied that Mraize is using Hemalurgy on Roshar (RoW I-5). 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Will you be updating your main post with responses?

Also:

• Surge of Division (as interaxial forces)
• Medallion (also referenced as the "key" tech)
• Hemalurgy
• "Hemalurgy" (see this post) related mechanics

I will update the post, when the case is clear. Now:

1. May we be looking at an enlightened Highspren, so "interaxial force" could be something else?
2. I alreday have those
3. Good catch
4. I am afraid it does not meet the definition of external arcanum

[Dager000 He/Him]

On 10/3/2023 at 0:46 PM, Treamayne said:

Doesn't even have to be any kind of Shardic intervention - there are enough Worldhoppers transiting Scadrial now, that exposure (during after Era 2) to Hemalurgy will be hard to keep quiet. Afterall, Kelsier is openly using it within the Ghostbloods, and we've already seen it implied that Mraize is using Hemalurgy on Roshar (RoW I-5). 

Yeah, definitely true -- I'd meant to imply that Worldhoppers would be included in my "some influence" part, but that wasn't clear.

I'd never interpreted the dead Terrisman as a Hemalurgic kill before, since the description doesn't seem quite messy enough (though if there's a WOB, ignore me lol). But that's interesting to consider.

[Treamayne]

7 minutes ago, Dager000 said:

Yeah, definitely true -- I'd meant to imply that Worldhoppers would be included in my "some influence" part, but that wasn't clear.

I'd never interpreted the dead Terrisman as a Hemalurgic kill before, since the description doesn't seem quite messy enough (though if there's a WOB, ignore me lol). But that's interesting to consider.

Here's the scene (I-5):

Spoiler

Quote

He trailed off as they stumbled across the corpse.

It was an old Alethi man in robes. He’d been killed with some kind of knife wound to the chest, and lay—his eyes open—on the ground. Blood on his lips.

She turned away. She never had gotten used to this sort of thing.

The chicken let out an angry screech, fluttering out of her hands to the man. Then—in perhaps the most heart-wrenching thing she’d ever seen—it began to nuzzle the corpse and chirp softly. It climbed into the crook of his dead arm and pushed its head against his side, chirping again, more worried this time.

“I’m sorry,” Lift said, squatting down. “How did you know he was here?”

It chirped.

“You could feel him, couldn’t you?” she asked. “Or … you could feel where he’d been. You’re no ordinary chicken. Are you a Voidbringer chicken?”

“Why,” Wyndle said, “do you insist on using that word? It’s horribly inaccurate.”

“Shut it, Voidbringer,” she muttered at him. She reached over and carefully picked up the chicken, who had begun to let out pained chirps almost like words. Eerily similar to them, in fact.

“Who was he?” she asked. “Wyndle, do you recognize him?”

“I believe I’ve seen him before. A minor Alethi functionary, though his eyes are different now. Curious. Look at his fingers—tan skin with bands of lighter skin. He was wearing jewelry once.”

A chest wound with no weapon on-scene and missing metalminds. Not definitive (hence my use of "implied") but scary none-the-less in the nads of Mraize.

The relevant WoB was years before RoW (2015):

Spoiler

Lucadaw

If someone used Hemalurgy to take someones Feruchemical abilities would they be able to use that persons personal metalminds? Most relevantly perhaps to take that person's knowledge from their copperminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[+robardin he/him]

The "Continuity Chain" is very likely the same thing as Mraize gave to Raboniel, described in her notes as "a chain from the lands of the dead, said to be able to anchor a person through Cognitive anomolies" (which fits with the term "continuity" in the name of it).

It's probably also the same chain in a locked-down and guarded display case that cost a thousand broams of Stormlight in the cultivationspren's shop in Celebrant in Oathbringer.

The real question is, what are "Cognitive anomolies" that one might need "anchoring" through?

If they are indeed all the same thing, one was displayed in a weapons shop in Shadesmar (the cultivationspren was otherwise selling axes, knives, etc.), and being described as a "silver, whiplike weapon rolled up and hung at the hip" of the Admiral of the Night Brigade.

A weapon against what? Not against "sentient spren" but "anomolies" like Shades, Kelsier, or even Returned?

But, Raboniel's notes refer to its use in "anchoring through" and not "defending from" or "use against" Cognitive anomolies - as if they were some kind of Shadesmar weather-like phenomenon.

[+Child of Hodor]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

 

But, Raboniel's notes refer to its use in "anchoring through" and not "defending from" or "use against" Cognitive anomolies - as if they were some kind of Shadesmar weather-like phenomenon.

Makes me think of how cognitive shadows are “stapled” to the physical realm.  https://wob.coppermind.net/events/183/#e3895

Anchoring could mean the anomalies rip the person’s consciousness / cognitive aspect out of their body and this chain prevents that. 

[Firesong she/her]

On 10/3/2023 at 0:17 PM, Dager000 said:

If I remember correctly, Spook got some info on Hemalurgy, but would it have gone that in-depth? Did Harmony become Discord (not sure how widely accepted this theory is as a possible route)

Almost universally accepted, given TLM talked a lot about him turning into Discord and Discord was foreshadowed and referenced as early as The Final Empire. So I highly doubt that he won't become Discord. I in fact believe that he will have to become it. "He shall be named Discord, and they shall love him for it." I believe he would fight it, but ultimately realize it was leaving him too unable to act which put his people at risk, and he would finally give in to Discord for the sake of his people, like to fight off Autonomy, or something of that ilk. 

[Dager000 He/Him]

On 10/9/2023 at 11:36 AM, Firesong said:

I believe he would fight it, but ultimately realize it was leaving him too unable to act which put his people at risk, and he would finally give in to Discord for the sake of his people, like to fight off Autonomy, or something of that ilk. 

Cool, I've personally felt like Discord made sense (for the exact reasons you mentioned) since I was introduced to the idea; good to know it's not just me being convinced by a fringe theory lol.

[Elegy he/him]

Hoid at the beginning seems to be a Lightweaving, since things go through him, so that could also be added to the list.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:34 PM, Elegy said:

Hoid at the beginning seems to be a Lightweaving, since things go through him, so that could also be added to the list.

For all we know the image was only in Nomad's mind, so I do not want to add this without confirmation.