Returning Invested Arts?

[Hmmm lies she/her]

I was wondering, if a Mistborn is returned, will they still be a Mistborn? Also, if a Radiant returns, will their Nahel bond persist? (I suppose we don't know if the bond breaks when they die or when they go to the Beyond)

[Treamayne]

Welcome to the forums. Please beware duplicate posts - I've already reported it, but you can also use "report post" (or hide the message) if the system should accidentally duplicate a post. Here is some more explanation (and other tools with which you may not yet be aware):

Spoiler

At the bottom left of a post you will see a "+" icon, a "Quote" link, and (your posts only) and Edit and Options tools. On the bottom right you will see an up arrow.

• The Up Arrow is how you thank people or "like" a post
• The "Quote" link is exactly that, when you click it the quote will be added to the reply at the bottom of the thread wherever the cursor is
  • So, if you have already started to reply before you decide to quote you can then add the quote before or after your text depending on the cursor location when you click "Quote"
• The + icon is multi-quote. As you read a thread, if you want to quote multiple items you click that for each post
  • As you click +, you should see a toaster pop-up on the bottom right of the browser window showing how many quotes you will have
  • They are added in the order you click the + icon, not in the original post order, so you can set the order of quotes for your reply
  • When you are ready to reply, click on the toaster pop-up and it will take you directly to the reply section and add the quotes automatically
• Finally, you can also highlight a small section of a post and, when hovering over the highlit portion, click the "Quote" button that pops up.
• Also note that you can move quotes after they have been added to your reply.
  • For example, you add a quote and realize there are no empty lines below it for you to type - so you can hit "enter" before the quote to make an empty line then when you hover over a quote you will see a 4-way arrow at the top-left that you can use to drag the quote up (or down)  and move the quote to before the empty line. . .
• Use the Edit link to make changes to a completed post or add information to your post if it is the most recent (to avoid double posting)
  • Quote buttons will still send a quote to "Reply" if you have a post open for edit, but it is easy to cut/paste the quote to the Edit box
  • Editing the first post in a thread allows the thread-creator to edit the thread title.
  • Editing allows you to add a reason for the edit (Spelling and grammar (SPAG), formatting, clarification, new information, etc.), but it is not required.
• Next to Edit you will also find an "options" dropbox, you can use this to hide your post if you want to remove it after posting
• At the top of a post you will find "Report Post"
  • Use this if you do accidentally double-post (sometimes it's the browser or a slow link that causes a double post) - just leave a message that it was an accidental double post and the Mods can fix it. If it was the first post of a new thread that doubled, they usually can merge the threads if they both have answers, so all of the content is retained.

Hope that helps.

22 minutes ago, Hmmm lies said:

I was wondering, if a Mistborn is returned, will they still be a Mistborn? Also, if a Radiant returns, will their Nahel bond persist? (I suppose we don't know if the bond breaks when they die or when they go to the Beyond)

We have little data on this, but also the process of become Returned is a specific decision by Endowment - so the chances of her choosing to Return a foreigner (and one connected to a different Shard through Allomancy or Feruchemy) is probably slim. We do have this WoB though, that, if applicable, would imply that they could not still use Allomancy:

Spoiler

Quote

little wilson

Can a Mistborn turned into a Lifeless still use Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

*long-ish pause* Uh, no.

little wilson

So I would assume that is the same for a Feruchemist?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah if you-- taking some-- Yeah.  No they can't.

Quote

Trae

Previously, you've revealed that the mechanism that determines the Returned on Nalthis is a decision of a sapient entity... Is the determination by which the entity that selects the recipient of a Divine Breath to come back as a Returned predicated on that recipient fulfilling some purpose in the Physical Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

...Basically they are asking... "Why does the entity that picks who Returns, why did they pick who they did?" And, your question kind of implies there's, like, specific tasks to fulfill. I'm gonna say, there aren't specifics, but there are certain things this entity is looking for--

Trae

In the Physical Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. There are certain things that they are looking for. Now, sometimes-- let's just say this entity is not necessarily the most consistent of entities in the cosmere when it comes to making decisions like this. But there are certain things they are looking for.

Quote

Trae Cooper

On Nalthis is the-- We know that Endowment makes Splinters to create divine Breaths to bring Returned.

Brandon Sanderson

Mmhmm.

Trae Cooper

The process with which those Returns are chosen, is that deliberate from Endowment or is there a process that was put into place to select?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. *laughter*

 

Hope that helps

[Quantus he/him]

25 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

 

We have little data on this, but also the process of become Returned is a specific decision by Endowment - so the chances of her choosing to Return a foreigner (and one connected to a different Shard through Allomancy or Feruchemy) is probably slim. We do have this WoB though, that, if applicable, would imply that they could not still use Allomancy:

Hope that helps

The Lifeless bit may be a different problem, there's also WOB that they barely have enough Investiture to qualify as a target for hemalurgy (since they have a counterfeit Spiritweb made of a single Breath) they may simply not have enough Investiture to sustain the Connection required.   

Per WOB both Returning and being born with a Breath are tied to being Born on Nalthis, while Allomancy is sDNA genetic.  So in theory a family of Scadrians could immigrate to Nalthis and after a few generations there should be some native Nalthians with both a natural Breath and the potential for Snapping and Allomancy (or Feruchemy).  That could easily be interesting enough for endowment to Return one of them, or it could equally be distasteful enough that she would refrain; it depends on how far her isolationism drifts into xenophobia, I guess.   

Warning, some Stormlight spoilers in these WOB's:

 

Spoiler

Quote

 

Pechvarry (paraphrased)

Could you make a spike from a Lifeless?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

"Oooo interesting!" He said their soul is so drained there wouldn't be much left, so you could only get the barest hint.

Pechvarry (paraphrased)

But you COULD technically get a charge?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, but it would be very weak.

Words of Radiance Dayton signing (March 19, 2014)

 

 

Quote

 

BlackYeti

In Words of Radiance, we have Vasher showing up... One of his aliases on Nalthis is Kalad, which is very similar to the name of one of the Heralds on Roshar. So I was wondering how far back this connection between him and Roshar goes.

Brandon Sanderson

It goes pretty far back, in fact when I wrote Way of Kings, the 2002 version; he was a main character and was Kaladin's swordmaster. I wrote Warbreaker to jump back and write out his backstory, Vasher's. So to me Warbreaker actually came after Way of Kings. But the connection goes back pretty far, further than you would first guess.

BlackYeti

Did he actually come from Nalthis and not Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm not going to actually answer that one-- Well I can answer that: yes he does come from Nalthis. It's pretty obvious that the way that the Breath's working, the reason he moved is because it's easier to get Stormlight than Breaths, and Stormlight can fuel being a Returned like him. And so yes, he was born on Nalthis. Becoming Returned without being born on Nalthis would be really hard.

Manchester signing (Aug. 6, 2014)

 

 

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Hmmm lies said:

I was wondering, if a Mistborn is returned, will they still be a Mistborn? Also, if a Radiant returns, will their Nahel bond persist? (I suppose we don't know if the bond breaks when they die or when they go to the Beyond)

Returned is a Cognitive Shadow, Cognitive Shadow is a "fossil" of a soul, Allomancy is a Connection to Preservation in the soul - this should be copied, so if the Returned remains in his original body, the they might still be a Mistborn/Feruchemist. Radiants probably not, the bond is most likely broken in the moment of the death.

In Lifeless their Breath replaces their soul so this connection is no longer there. The soul of the person is gone. 

[Hmmm lies she/her]

I did find this WoB, just a RAFO but no explicit denial.

Spoiler

Me, My Skirt, and I

Radiants stay Invested after death in the Cognitive Realm. Does this mean that the Nahel Bond lasts until they go Beyond or does the bond end when the body dies?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. We'll add one to the RAFOlympics. Good question, I like the way you're theorizing.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)