How much does a Shard's perception of themselves affect their futuresight ?

[Velsii]

How much does a Shard's perception of themselves affect their future sight?

Spoilers for RoW
 I’ve been reading some of the wikis on shard futuresight, and apparently Brandon has stated that shard identity is important in their perception. The vessel impacts how they can tell the future, like how T-Odium can see possibilities Rayse was blind to.

Some shards are better at it than others, such as Cultivation being able to see farther than Ruin. I would love to be able to ask this for a q&a stream to get a word of brandon, but i can’t find where to submit questions. As such, I’m going to leave my question here:

How much does a vessels conception of a shard impact their future sight? For example, if a devout Vorin- with their fear of futuresight- were to ascend to cultivation, would they see as far as the current shard? And before brandon says, their experience matters, would they see as far as the shard initially saw when they first ascended?

Let's say Taravangian, and all citizens of Roshar, had the impression that Odium was the absolute best at future sight. That he could see every path and turn for millennia. Would Taravangian be better at seeing the future because his perception of the shard has changed?
 

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Velsii said:

How much does a Shard's perception of themselves affect their future sight?

Spoilers for RoW
 I’ve been reading some of the wikis on shard futuresight, and apparently Brandon has stated that shard identity is important in their perception. The vessel impacts how they can tell the future, like how T-Odium can see possibilities Rayse was blind to.

Some shards are better at it than others, such as Cultivation being able to see farther than Ruin. I would love to be able to ask this for a q&a stream to get a word of brandon, but i can’t find where to submit questions. As such, I’m going to leave my question here:

How much does a vessels conception of a shard impact their future sight? For example, if a devout Vorin- with their fear of futuresight- were to ascend to cultivation, would they see as far as the current shard? And before brandon says, their experience matters, would they see as far as the shard initially saw when they first ascended?

Let's say Taravangian, and all citizens of Roshar, had the impression that Odium was the absolute best at future sight. That he could see every path and turn for millennia. Would Taravangian be better at seeing the future because his perception of the shard has changed?
 

It's an interesting question that there isn't any solid answer to. I would say Vessel's perception might influence Shard's future vision but in some indirect way. People's perception wouldn't matter. 

Intent seems to be one of factors that dictates how good a Shard is in precognition, but we don't really know why. And if intent is important, then a Vessel, with his own perception, can change the definition of the intent or even change the intent itself. For example Ruin tried hard to focus Shard's nature into natural decay and entropy, in which he was successful, Rayse on the other hand tried to change the whole intent of Odium into Passion with mixed results.

The other factor I think matters is Vessel's mind set - a Vessel needs to actually look for more or less specific outcomes and situations he wants to achieve. If his mind set is fresh, not changed by Shard's intent, like Taravangian is right now, he could see more possibilities than Rayse's mind could have seen. But this is more of a speculation on how it works. 

I don't think if you think of yourself as being good at predicting the future would help you as a Shard. Maybe if you already have some experience with Fortune, you might be able to quickly learn how to use Shardic precognition, or maybe if your mind is already expanded before Ascension, as a Shard your mind is expanded even more and you can see more (Dawnshard holders?).

Some WoBs:

Spoiler

Jeremy (paraphrased)

When Honor speaks of his inability to see the future, he likens it to a shattering window. Is this related to the fact that in the not-too-distant future, he himself will be splintered? Or is it more a matter of Intent; e.g., Cultivation (and Preservation?) is geared toward future development, whereas Honor is geared toward current behavior.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This is not related to his impending Splintering, it is a matter of differing Intents.

When Worlds Collide 2014 (Aug. 9, 2014)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Is the ability to foretell the future, we know that some Shardholders are better at that than others, is that dependent on the Shard or the holders.

Brandon Sanderson

On the Shards. No, let me say both.

Questioner

Both?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Because your own-- yeah.

White Sand vol.1 Orem signing (June 29, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

So, the Diagram was basically created to help Taravangian figure out if he was having a bad day or a good day, kind of?

Brandon Sanderson

That's not one of the reasons they were founded, but that is certainly one of their duties.

Questioner

And we found out it was because Odium helped Taravangian figure out the Diagram. Now that Todium exists, will he still have to use the Diagram and go forth with the Diagram? And how will that shape what this contest of champions is gonna be?

Brandon Sanderson

I won't tell you how it's gonna shape, but he now has access to what Odium could do, which is limited ability to see the future, and a little bit better than a lot of the Shards are at that. He could see what the Diagram was an inferior version of making, in a lot of ways. In other words, the physical print thing, the Diagram, is no longer necessary to him.

Questioner

Now that it's Todium, will he have problems with having his good days and bad days?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

Mistborn spoilers:

Spoiler

JamesW

You said that Preservation created the Terris Prophecies. Why couldn't Ruin see into the future and counter Preservation's plan? Is it because Ruin's intent has him focusing more on the present than the future, while Preservation (wanting to preserve forever) looks more into the future for that goal.

Brandon Sanderson

Looking into the future was not something Ruin was good at doing. That ability is confined to certain shards, and not others.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 28, 2012)

 

Spoiler

yulerule

So, we have Shard names; Ruin, Preservation, Harmony, Cultivation, Honor, Ambition, Autonomy, Devotion, Dominion. Those are pretty much regular English words. And then we have Odium. That's a little more Latinate. It's not-- It doesn't fit the pattern.

Brandon Sanderson

So I don't really look as something as Latinate or Germanic, when I'm picking the names usually.

yulerule

But this one is more. Even in Devotion or Dominion, their more regular English. Why?

Brandon Sanderson

I just look for the thing that feels right. Remember, all these words are in translation. When you read the book, they were a word in the original language of the book, that then we have translated to English. And so, don't look to much about what's Greek, what's Latin, what's Germanic. I will mix those a lot. And that's just because I'm looking for the word that has right resonance in English, that I'm writing in. You might even find Latin and Greek mixes in some of my stuff. And that's not done to be like, "Oh, you should be paying [attention]." Usually, I'm just looking for a flavor.

yulerule

So it's the flavor-- Because I actually did have it - they're all translations, why not <Hatred instead of Odium?>

Brandon Sanderson

Because Odium is cooler. It just sounds cooler. There is no answer other than "I like the word better."

yulerule

Is there any connection with the thought that it's not Hatred? Because in Oathbringer, he says he's Passion?

Brandon Sanderson

He would claim that he's Passion and not Odium. But that is part of why I chose it. Hatred felt too on-the-nose, because there is quite arguably that step toward just being all Passion, and that's what he claims that he is.

yulerule

His own perception of himself, can perception, in the cosmere, can that influence?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, it can influence.

yulerule

So the Shard's intent can--

Brandon Sanderson

Can be influenced by their perception and the holder's, yes.

JordanCon 2018 (April 20, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Alvaro Lopez

Why Odium is stronger and worst evil than Ruin?

Brandon Sanderson

One reason is that Ruin had a person in control of it who, for many years, fought against the impulse to destroy--and in the end, channeled it toward entropy and decay, necessary elements of the universe. Odium represents something else entirely.

General Twitter 2018 (June 6, 2018)

 

2 hours ago, Velsii said:

I would love to be able to ask this for a q&a stream to get a word of brandon, but i can’t find where to submit questions. 

If you want to ask Brandon a question, observe his social media and YT channel. When he announces a new spoiler stream, there is a link in YT video description to a new reddit thread specifically for people to leave their questions there. There probably will be a Yumi spoiler stream soon-ish but that is gonna be about Yumi, not general Cosmere.

[Treamayne]

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Hope that helps.

3 hours ago, Velsii said:

How much does a Shard's perception of themselves affect their future sight?

Spoilers for RoW
 I’ve been reading some of the wikis on shard futuresight, and apparently Brandon has stated that shard identity is important in their perception. The vessel impacts how they can tell the future, like how T-Odium can see possibilities Rayse was blind to.

Some shards are better at it than others, such as Cultivation being able to see farther than Ruin. I would love to be able to ask this for a q&a stream to get a word of brandon, but i can’t find where to submit questions. As such, I’m going to leave my question here:

How much does a vessels conception of a shard impact their future sight? For example, if a devout Vorin- with their fear of futuresight- were to ascend to cultivation, would they see as far as the current shard? And before brandon says, their experience matters, would they see as far as the shard initially saw when they first ascended?

Let's say Taravangian, and all citizens of Roshar, had the impression that Odium was the absolute best at future sight. That he could see every path and turn for millennia. Would Taravangian be better at seeing the future because his perception of the shard has changed?
 

The primary factor in Shardic FutureSight isn't the vessel - it's the Shard itself (primarily the Shard's Intent). Cultivation isn't great at future sight because of the vessel (or their race before ascending to Cultivation) - but because the Intent of Cultivation is rooted (pun intended) in the future and how things grow and proliferate. WoB:

Spoiler

Shardbound

We've seen different Shards have different prophetic abilities--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.  

Shardbound

Is this a result of the Shard itself, the wielder, or a combination of the two.

Brandon Sanderson

More the Shard.

Shadows of Self London UK signing (Oct. 19, 2015)  

Ruin wasn't bad at futuresight when he was looking for things involving the Shard's intent (when best to set off a volcano, for example) but Preservation was much better (enough to out-gambit Ruin with a plan spanning at least two millenia) - because the Intent of Preservation is inherently about the future, while Ruin is. . . not. 

That's not to say that the Vessel doesn't matter at all - but if Taravangian had Ascended to Honor (somehow) he would have much less capability with FutureSight (since Honor's intent is very much rooted in the present and keeping current oaths) than he does as the Vessel of Odium.