I'm reading Wax & Wayne for the first time

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

Writing my thoughts down here in case anyone finds them interesting. I was inspired by the Stormlight Archive reaction thread by @Amira

I thought this would be a great way to get a lot more involved in the Cosmere community. Good way to share theories. If this goes well I'll probably do threads for Warbreaker and The Stormlight Archive.

[Amira]

OMG, someone was inspired by my thread and is doing the same thing!

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

3 minutes ago, Amira said:

OMG, someone was inspired by my thread and is doing the same thing!

Yes ma'am! I love this community so much! I love creating Twitter threads of media I'm experiencing, so I thought 17th Shard would be perfect for this. Hope you're loving Stormlight! Haven't touched it yet but it sounds great.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Writing my thoughts down here in case anyone finds them interesting. I was inspired by the Stormlight Archive reaction thread by @Amira

I thought this would be a great way to get a lot more involved in the Cosmere community. Good way to share theories. If this goes well I'll probably do threads for Warbreaker and The Stormlight Archive.

Excellent. I always love it when a new person joins the community in a more expansive way . 

By the way, how far are you in Wax and Wayne yet (personally, it's my favorite series of books)?

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

15 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Excellent. I always love it when a new person joins the community in a more expansive way . 

By the way, how far are you in Wax and Wayne yet (personally, it's my favorite series of books)?

I'm on Alloy of Law chapter 10. I'll share my thoughts on the previous chapters when I am free.

[alder24]

18 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Writing my thoughts down here in case anyone finds them interesting. I was inspired by the Stormlight Archive reaction thread by @Amira

I thought this would be a great way to get a lot more involved in the Cosmere community. Good way to share theories. If this goes well I'll probably do threads for Warbreaker and The Stormlight Archive.

This will be fun. I'm excited to read about your experience with Era 2  

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

Okay, so in the prologue, our new MC Waxillium was trying to counter bullets. He did it with a unique application of steel Allomancy - a steel bubble. It was interesting and unexpected, though I never saw an application like it in Era 1.  Not even from Vin. I wonder if it stems from pure skill or Wax being a savant (or approaching it). I can see skill being the reason, assuming no government is kidnapping Allomancers. The glimpses of gunplay were so cool. This time around, it feels like Sanderson's prose is more descriptive. It honestly took me a while to get past the six chapters because of this. Feels like the environments are described more vividly and the action so far feels more meticulous I quite like it! It was super great reading how the new world worships the crew. Good ol' Kelsier is still worshipped as the Survivor. If he could see this, he would have the biggest grin. Sazed's Shard name is Harmony, which is just beautiful.  Death with nails in his eyes must be Marsh. That is such a badass moniker. but goddamn people. 300 years later and he still can't catch a break? My boi should be left praised. He tried his best under a bad hand. 

I can think of a lot of ways Skimming can be useful by itself. But combining it with Steelpushing is a combo I DO NOT WANT TO SEE in real life!! Steelpushing is all about weight, so I imagine Skimming would create very devastating warping of physics. The prologue has small bits of Skimming but it's already useful.

Poor Wax. Poor Lessie. Brandon loves the dead wife trope.

[Trusk'our he/him]

5 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Okay, so in the prologue, our new MC Waxillium was trying to counter bullets. He did it with a unique application of steel Allomancy - a steel bubble. It was interesting and unexpected, though I never saw an application like it in Era 1.  Not even from Vin. I wonder if it stems from pure skill or Wax being a savant (or approaching it). I can see skill being the reason, assuming no government is kidnapping Allomancers.

From things that will be seen later in the series, it seems to be merely a matter of skill. As for why Vin didn't use it when she was so clearly talented with her Allomancy, well, not everyone can think up of everything, particularly when you have to generalize because you have sixteen powers to keep track of and you've only been consciously using your powers for about five years. Wax has been using his powers for decades and he only has two to keep track of.

8 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

The glimpses of gunplay were so cool.

Yeah, before era 2 Mistborn I was seriously opposed to guns in fantasy, but now I love them as much or more than swordplay.

9 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

It was super great reading how the new world worships the crew. Good ol' Kelsier is still worshipped as the Survivor. If he could see this, he would have the biggest grin. Sazed's Shard name is Harmony, which is just beautiful.  Death with nails in his eyes must be Marsh. That is such a badass moniker. but goddamn people. 300 years later and he still can't catch a break? My boi should be left praised. He tried his best under a bad hand. 

The worldbuilding that was constructed on era 1 was probably one of my favorite aspects of era 2, most likely because I got all the references and it felt nostalgic. I felt invested in the world rather than feeling like everything was being dumped on me like in some other series.

As for Marsh being regarded as a god of Death, don't feel too bad for him; a part of him really likes it, even if he isn't willing to admit it to himself 

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/127/#e5082

Questioner

Is Marsh happy?

Brandon Sanderson

Marsh is Marsh's version of happy.

Questioner

I'm just worried about him.

Brandon Sanderson

...He has never been a happy person. But he's in a better place now than he's been in other times of his life.

There's a part of Marsh that really likes skulking around and being an incarnation of Death in peoples' minds. He's not really one, but you know what I mean? There's a part of him, the part that's related to his brother, that really digs that, even if he would never admit it.

 

12 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

I can think of a lot of ways Skimming can be useful by itself. But combining it with Steelpushing is a combo I DO NOT WANT TO SEE in real life!! Steelpushing is all about weight, so I imagine Skimming would create very devastating warping of physics. The prologue has small bits of Skimming but it's already useful.

Oh yeah, there are lots of crazy ways to use all the powers if you home in on them enough. F-iron has lots of applications in particular.

[Shadeshadow227]

17 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Oh yeah, there are lots of crazy ways to use all the powers if you home in on them enough. F-iron has lots of applications in particular.

Bit of a tangent, but you just reminded me of the Glider Coat from the MAG Alloy of Law supplement. I wonder if that's actually feasible, using Iron Feruchemy to fly with a wingsuit.

...now I'm imagining Batman on Scadrial.

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

Wax's skill would be like Breeze's skill, then. They're weaker than Mistborn, but their experience in one metal makes them better in the specific field. I'm excited to see how Era 2's gunplay and Skimming evolve.

Here comes chapter 1:

It starts off in the city of Elendel, designed by Harmony. Man, reading this has me shedding tears. Everyone believed in Elend more than he believed in himself, and he deserves to be remembered. And we see that the mists are back. I wonder if they're normal mists or the magical crumb of the Shards. Though it appears they don't appear as often as Preservation's mists. Meanwhile, we see Wax engaging in a Mistborn's favorite hobby - flying through the air. Though instead of using coins he uses bullet casings, and flying around with 3/4 of his body weight. It's a nice, subtle nod that Allomantic tools have evolved since Harmony rewrote the world. We see this with the reveal that Coinshots are now couriers. It's also shown that Scadrial is in the midst of an industrial revolution. Guns, locomotives, skyscrapers, electric lights in the past 20 years. This is very unique among fantasy. Most fantasy settings are medieval, some in modern times. I've rarely, if ever, seen settings in-between. 

The number of octants - eight - is a totally subtle reference to Preservation’s obsession with 16. Mistborn are myths, we got Twinborn who have one Allomantic and one Feruchemical power, and I'm wondering if Feruchemists with all powers still exist. All I know is that the Lord Ruler's fears have come true. Loved that Wax's ironminds are bracers and he puts whiskey in his vials. Wax being so light he couldn't be blown away makes me question the storing limits and physics of Skimming, and of Feruchemy as a whole.

The poor man has PTSD 

[Shadeshadow227]

4 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

The poor man has PTSD 

Out of context, I'm fairly certain 99% of people here would still instantly know who this is referring to, lol.

8 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Wax's skill would be like Breeze's skill, then. They're weaker than Mistborn, but their experience in one metal makes them better in the specific field. I'm excited to see how Era 2's gunplay and Skimming evolve.

Exactly. Mistborn and Full Feruchemists each have 16 metals to split their attention between, this enables a lot of cool combinations and things that wouldn't be possible with just one, but it leaves them unable/unwilling to specialize. Twinborn can only use one of each, but they can still use the combination of both for cool things, and they get the benefit of having less options to split their time between. Quantity versus quality.

Wax is a particularly fascinating case, because Steelpushing was already established as being really cool in Era 1. And now Coinshots have guns.

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Wax's skill would be like Breeze's skill, then. They're weaker than Mistborn, but their experience in one metal makes them better in the specific field. I'm excited to see how Era 2's gunplay and Skimming evolve.

Here comes chapter 1:

Nice write-up, glad you are enjoying it.

4 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

This is very unique among fantasy. Most fantasy settings are medieval, some in modern times. I've rarely, if ever, seen settings in-between. 

This makes me curious if you know the pitch for Mistborn (from before the first book was published). I'll spoiler tag it in case you don't want to read it just yet, though there are no spoilers for the actual stories involved.

Spoiler

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. For those who aren't aware, when I pitched the Mistborn series to my editor originally, way back when, I pitched it as a trilogy of trilogies—a past-present-future—where I would do an epic fantasy trilogy and then I would jump forward hundreds of years and explore what happens with the magic in a modern-day technology level setting, and then I would jump forward hundreds more years and allow the magic to then become the primary means by which FTL—faster-than-light space travel—is able to happen.

Fortunately, I'd built into—this was a time where I'd built in myself a couple of months between Wheel of Time books to just do whatever I wanted. You can go back to my blogs at the time, and I said, people, I need a couple months to do something else to refresh myself. And so, I went in my outline to a full short novel that became Alloy of Law, and this is an interim book meant to be kind of more fast-paced, only focused on a couple characters, to deal with, you know-- I describe it as, sometimes you want to go have a big steak dinner, but sometimes you really just want to have a hamburger, and Alloy of Law is a hamburger. *laughter* It's faster. It's fun. It's meant to be a cool character interaction story, and with a mystery, as opposed to something that big.

So, the current Era 2 was a happy accident, outside the original plan of Trilogy of Trilogies.

 

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

Chapter 2:

We got Wayne in the house! And I already love him! He's already a fun character with a cool new power. Coming from a JoJo and HxH fan, time manipulation is always a fun power to write about. The limitations of bendalloy are cool, but at this point that's expected from Brandon. And apparently he's a regenerator, with the power of Feruchemical gold! Looks like it’ll be fun seeing this combination, we already got a peek with his disguises and talk with Wax. Aluminum is back and I was NOT expecting it to negate steel and iron Allomancy. Now that's a problem for Metallic Artists. I noticed that Pathians and Survivorists seem to dislike each other. Now that! Is! Ironyyy! 

It was funny when Wayne got his hopes up for bi Steris 

Chapter 3:

Wax has been wearing an aluminum hat. His theories are spicy. Speaking of aluminum, we've learned more juicy stuff about it. It prevents emotions from being Pushed or Pulled! It’s like a coppercloud wtf. I wonder how Harmony felt when these discoveries were made. Speaking of Harmony, the Path is.. interesting. It’s contradictory, I think. Steris said he forbids worship and the Path says not to waste time worshipping Harmony, but there are still 15 minute daily prayers. Makes me wonder if Harmony himself created the Path, or influenced its founders. I’m disappointed his religion has the typical “no lust without commitment” principle.

Are the Faceless Immortals the kandra?

Was Harmony really whispering to Wax? The mentions of sensations during the prayer reminds me a bit of how Ruin created sensations for his pawns, or even the mists that responded to his influence. I hope Harmony is at least being more considerate than Ruin ever was.

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Chapter 3:

 Speaking of Harmony, the Path is.. interesting. It’s contradictory, I think. Steris said he forbids worship and the Path says not to waste time worshipping Harmony, but there are still 15 minute daily prayers.

This will gain more detail through the book.

4 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Are the Faceless Immortals the kandra?

Do you really want this answer (it will be explained in Era 2). Spoiler tag so you can avoid if it was an idle question:

Spoiler

Yes

4 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Was Harmony really whispering to Wax?

This will also gain more detail in this book (and a more complete explanation further into Era 2)

Glad you are enjoying AOL so far - Wayne is certainly something special. . .

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

Chapter 4 reaction:

This was a fun chapter! We see more of Era 2’s humor. I wasn’t expecting crass humor lmao. Wax was out of pocket talking about shooting a dog’s balls. 

We learn about House Harms. Steris sounds oddly formal for a noble, Lord Harms is badly treating Marasi, and Marasi is cool. Marasi made an interesting theory on the amount of lawmen between Elendel and the Roughs. That honestly made me think about the tendency of crime and distribution of police resources in our world.

We also learn more about Scadrial. The Originators must’ve been the people that were in the storage caverns. Spook became known as the Lord Mistborn and got bizzzzayyy. Marsh is worshipped in Sliverism, which is an odd name. Sliverism sounds like it would worship the Lord Ruler or the other Ascendants.

Wayne’s waiter disguise was hilarious. I think Kelsier and Breeze would like Wayne.

Chapter ends with a robbery 

Vanishers: Nobles, open up!

 

Chapters 5 and 6 reactions:

Fight scene! Fight scene! We're gonna have a fight scene!

And it was GLORIOUS!!!! I missed Mistborn’s fights so much!!! They’re like reason #1 why it should be adapted into a cartoon!!! Going into this book I was worried about how guns would translate into the Metallic Arts. I thought they would have Stormtrooper aim against Coinshots. But thankfully, Brandon did not disappoint. He did a great job applying limits to Wax's Twinborn combo and Wayne's steel bubbles, while making it clear that both sides are very dangerous. Especially with the introduction of aluminum bullets... and aluminum guns??? The Vanishers aren't playing around lol. Though, the aluminum gun is a terrifying and very strange concept. Aluminum is very expensive and rare in this era of Scadrial and our world. Doubt anyone could have the resources or knowledge to make an aluminum gun, let alone ten of them.

Wax's combo takes me back to when Vin burned duralumin and steel/iron. I LOVE THIS FIGHT! Though I can tell Wax's combo is different from duralumin, and it makes me wonder what the hell duralumin enhanced. Tapping iron while burning steel enhances the physics of Allomancy, but there were times where duralumin was influencing the magical aspect of the Metallic Arts. Weird. I wonder if Wayne has his own Twinborn combo, like healing at a faster rate when speed bubbles are up. 

Oh neat Wax Pushed on metalminds. Been quite a while since I saw that. Nothing to analyze here, it's just been a long time since we saw Allomancy interact with metalminds.

When a Feruchemist stores most attributes, their body returns to their original state. So how is Wax always at three quarters of his weight? If Wax is a Crasher, then what's Wayne?

We got a koloss blooded Pewterarm SMH. I'm surprised Harmony kept koloss around. Would the koloss blooded need spikes??? I want to know who saw a koloss and told them “I likes ya, and I wants ya. Now we can do this the easy way or the hard way. The choice is yours.” 

Wax is a Skimmer. Wayne is a Bloodmaker. Must be the Feruchemist equivalent of a Misting. Has something happened to the number of Feruchemical abilities a person can use?

Facepalm moment: It took me too long to remember Wax is a descendant of Breeze 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Ale the Metallic Conjurer

[Shadeshadow227]

6 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

When a Feruchemist stores most attributes, their body returns to their original state. So how is Wax always at three quarters of his weight?

He's just always storing a quarter of his weight at all times, to make himself lighter on his feet. Iron isn't exactly a metal where dumping all of an attribute in at once will have major consequences, so he can afford to store and tap for the sake of convenience, since he doesn't really get "weaker" or "stronger" like he would if he was using Pewter or Steel instead of Iron, he just changes weight.

6 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

We got a koloss blooded Pewterarm SMH. I'm surprised Harmony kept koloss around. Would the koloss blooded need spikes??? I want to know who saw a koloss and told them “I likes ya, and I wants ya. Now we can do this the easy way or the hard way. The choice is yours.” 

Spoiler

A koloss-blooded human also results from two koloss, or a koloss-blooded and a normal human. They need spikes to become full koloss, just like anyone else, and there's apparently a whole ritual about being spiked when a koloss-blooded reaches a certain age, but the koloss can just reuse old spikes for that. The koloss-blooded in question can also choose to refuse, though that means being exiled from their tribe. Tarson being an Allomancer probably means his parents were a koloss-blooded and a normal human with some Allomancy/Allomantic potential, or two koloss-blooded with an Allomancer somewhere along the line.

6 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Wax is a Skimmer. Wayne is a Bloodmaker. Must be the Feruchemist equivalent of a Misting. Has something happened to the number of Feruchemical abilities a person can use?

Spoiler

Similar thing to what happened with Allomancy, as the centuries continued on post-catacendre and the Terris people mixed with the rest of the population, Feruchemical potential in the populace was diluted to the point where Full Feruchemists aren't around anymore, though due to how Feruchemy works it hasn't gotten less powerful like Allomancy has. The Feruchemical equivalent to a Misting is called a Ferring.

Now that I think about it, Feruchemy only getting weaker once the Lord Ruler's breeding programs were no longer a thing is some grade-A irony. 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Shadeshadow227
Adding spoiler warnings

[alder24]

5 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

When a Feruchemist stores most attributes, their body returns to their original state. So how is Wax always at three quarters of his weight? If Wax is a Crasher, then what's Wayne?

Storing weight doesn't affect your body physically which is weird if you think about it. Your body doesn't change, only your weight changes. F-iron kind of breaks down physics a little. Wax is just constantly storing weight, which has no impact on his physical appearance (like for example storing strength in F-pewter has). Here is a WoB from AoL annotations about this particular fight scene and weight if you're interested:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Six

The fight in the ballroom

From the early days of the Mistborn books, I'd been planning how an Allomantic gunfight would go down. I felt it the next evolution in what has been stylistically a big part of these books.

There is a fine line to walk in a lot of these sequences. I've made something of a name for myself in the fantasy world by attempting to mix some scientific reasoning with my magic systems. At the same time, Allomancy was designed precisely with action sequences in mind. I wanted them to be powerful and cinematic—and a cinematic fight sequence is often at odds with realism. (Watch two people who really know what they're doing fight with swords sometime, then watch any fight sequence in a film. Most of the time, the film sequences stray far from what would really happen.)

So, as I said, I walk a line. Sometimes, there are things I just can't do because they violate what I've set up as the rules of the world. Other times, I design the setting and nature of the fight specifically to allow for certain types of cinematic sequences. One thing I like a lot about Wax’s abilities is the power he has to manipulate his weight. There's some realism to what he does—for example, increasing his weight doesn't make him fall more quickly, but it allows him to do some powerful things while falling. Destroying the chandeliers is an example.

At the same time, I acknowledge that the weight manipulation aspect of Feruchemy is one of its more baffling powers, scientifically. Is he changing his mass? If so, he should become more dense, which I don't actually make the case when it plays out in fights. (Otherwise, increasing his weight enough would make him impervious to bullets.) So, if it's not mass manipulation, is it gravity manipulation, [spoilers edited out]? Well, again, not really—as when his weight increases, his strength and ability to uphold that weight increase as well. Beyond that, Wax can't make himself so light that he has no weight at all.

So . . . well, at this point, the ability to explain it scientifically breaks down. I do like what it does, but I have to set its boundaries and stick to them—and accept that some of what's going on is irrational. (And don't get me started on what should really be happening scientifically when Wayne speeds up time.)

Footnote: Brandon has stated that iron Feruchemy works by manipulating the Higgs field.
The Alloy of Law Annotations (March 14, 2014)

 

5 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

We got a koloss blooded Pewterarm SMH. I'm surprised Harmony kept koloss around. Would the koloss blooded need spikes??? I want to know who saw a koloss and told them “I likes ya, and I wants ya. Now we can do this the easy way or the hard way. The choice is yours.” 

Koloss-blooded are offsprings of two Koloss. Full Koloss still exists and they require spikes, but Harmony changed them so they can breed true as a species to preserve their unique culture. WoBs:

Spoiler

Kaimipono

Also, are koloss just naturally bad-tempered, even without Ruin's influence? Cause the koloss are still taking swipes at Sazed immediately after the merger. (And, does Sazed zap all the koloss? Did they all get toasted by the sun? But what about Human and his friends underground? Are there still koloss around? Just wonderin'.)

Brandon Sanderson

Koloss were bad tempered before Ruin's influence, though he certainly made them worse. They were designed by the Lord Ruler to be aggressive, so aggressive that they would destroy themselves if they got loose and away from him. (This was intentional. Note that he didn't give the spark of humanity in them enough credit, and they managed to overcome this and 'evolve' in a way to keep their species going, even after he died.)

There ARE still koloss around, though many of them were vaporized. Human is alive. Sazed took pity on them, however, and they have been transformed. They are now a race that breeds true, like the kandra, and have different thought processes from what they once had. You'll see more of them in the sequel series.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

How do koloss breed with humans, because you say in Alloy of Law that one of the--

Brandon Sanderson

What happens is the koloss breed with each other and a koloss-blooded is the result, because a koloss needs the Hemalurgic spikes to make them full koloss.  So if two koloss breed you get a koloss-blooded, which is basically a human with some weird genetics in them and if they choose to go through the transformation to full koloss they will become one.

Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015)

 

5 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Wax is a Skimmer. Wayne is a Bloodmaker. Must be the Feruchemist equivalent of a Misting. Has something happened to the number of Feruchemical abilities a person can use?

They are called Ferrings (but in the books they are often referred to as just Feruchemist). Yes, Feruchemy got broken down into singular abilities, because people started intermixing and Allomantic genes interacted with Feruchemical genes, breaking them aparat which resulted in Ferrings. 

Spoiler

Travyl (paraphrased)

Why do the Twinborn in Alloy of Law have only one Feruchemical power, when all previous Feruchemists, in spite of breeding programs, could use all the metals? 

WetlanderNW (paraphrased)

Or were Ferrings always part of the system and we just didn't meet them in Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The Ferrings are a new development since Mistborn, as the Feruchemists have been interbreeding with the Allomancers. Basically, the Allomancy genes interfere with the Feruchemy genes, breaking it down and creating the limitations we see in Alloy of Law.

Footnote: Brandon's response was very enthusiastic. He noted how perceptive the question was, and obviously enjoyed the discussion. The reporter has expressed their regret at lack of an audio recording to share his enthusiasm.
Alloy of Law Seattle Signing (Nov. 11, 2011)

 

Do you want us to answer some of your questions, like here, or do you want to figure them out yourself? I don't think everything will be explained in the books, like what happened to Ferrings, but I really don't want to spoil you anything that will be explained later in the books.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Shadeshadow227 said:

Spoiler

Spoilers

 

You need to spoiler tag all of those answers, so that Ale can decide if they want spoilers or not. This is their thread sharing their journey with us - it is not up to us to ruin it unless they specifically ask for answers. 

Relevant WoBs - if you want to peek:

Spoiler

Koloss Blooded:

Spoiler

 

Quote

 

Kogiopsis

How did koloss-blooded people happen?

Brandon Sanderson

Koloss-blooded people-- A koloss-blooded is the result of two koloss having a child. A full koloss is only made once you accept the spikes and are mutated into the final form. And so a koloss-blooded-- The koloss can breed true now but that's what you get. And so they actually have a ritual at coming-of-age where you can accept the spikes or you can leave. And so all koloss in the wastes-- in the Roughs that are in the koloss tribes are-- have chosen that and outsiders can choose it too.

 

Quote

Questioner

My favorite god, Sazed/Harmony, in my recent reread I got a bit angry at him because he didn’t let kandra be able to reproduce, but he let the koloss be able to do it. And I’m wondering if there’s a way he could have allowed that, but he chose not to? And also if there’s a way that it could happen in the future, so that two of my favorite people could have a baby?

Brandon Sanderson

There are a couple things that he was facing, and let me walk you through his philosophy on this, which you are allowed to disagree with. I want, for every character I write, there to be things they do that you disagree with, because otherwise I’m writing all characters to be the same person, if that makes sense.

The kandra have immortality and are able to perpetuate their culture by being immortal for as long as the individuals live. The koloss don’t have that, meaning that if he didn’t make koloss able to breed true, the entire people vanish in one generation and all culture associated with them. And so because of that, he took the extra effort to change the koloss to allow for this sort of thing. But he did it in such a way that they would not have to have hemalurgic spikes, because the idea of making new hemalurgic spikes is extremely distasteful to Harmony. Reusing old ones is a thing he was willing to allow, but new ones he didn’t.

Could he have changed the kandra to be similar? Well, the answer is kind of a fairly... yes, but they would no longer have been the kandra, they would have been rolled back to being what they were before the Lord Ruler. And so they basically would stop being what they are that makes them unique as a culture. And he decided not to do that.

You can disagree with that, and I think there are some pretty valid arguments against the choice he made, but that is the choice he made.

 

Feruchemy:

Spoiler

Questioner

Do you explain how the Feruchemists came back, because at the end there were a lot of eunuchs and...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, well, that's one of the reasons why Feruchemy has been split because it's very diluted now. The Terris people did survive because they made it. And so, the genetic code is there.

Questioner

And so, every once in a while, hereditarily, the gene will come up.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. But that's why there aren't very many full-blooded Feruchemists anymore. A thousand years of the Lord Ruler trying to breed it out of the population followed by a cataclysm that destroyed most of the population of the world did them in, yeah.

 

 

 

[Shadeshadow227]

13 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

You need to spoiler tag all of those answers, so that Ale can decide if they want spoilers or not. This is their thread sharing their journey with us - it is not up to us to ruin it unless they specifically ask for answers. 

Relevant WoBs - if you want to peek:

  Hide contents

Koloss Blooded:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Feruchemy:

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Do you explain how the Feruchemists came back, because at the end there were a lot of eunuchs and...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, well, that's one of the reasons why Feruchemy has been split because it's very diluted now. The Terris people did survive because they made it. And so, the genetic code is there.

Questioner

And so, every once in a while, hereditarily, the gene will come up.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. But that's why there aren't very many full-blooded Feruchemists anymore. A thousand years of the Lord Ruler trying to breed it out of the population followed by a cataclysm that destroyed most of the population of the world did them in, yeah.

 

 

 

Apologies, didn't consider that. Fixed.

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

@alder24 I think the reason F-iron is weird is because it's not storing the type of weight we may discuss with a relative. I don't think ironminds are storing the body's "heaviness" or mass, but rather the scientific definition of weight - the force of gravity on the human body. Which is why Wax's physical appearance isn't affecting. And I bet the tapped/stored Investiture creates a proportional increase/decrease in strength. This is Wax's guess and it feels like it's true.

Thanks for trying to show me WoBs! I'll try to check out them out after I finish the book. Hopefully I see more koloss. Koloss body horror was one of my favorite things about books 2 and 3.

 

Here comes the Chapter 7 reaction:

I love Wax and Marasi’s dynamic in this chapter. It’s always fun seeing a character’s expectations of another be shattered. My own expectations were shattered ngl. When I saw Wax fanart and the book’s cover I thought Wax would be gruff. But he’s actually pretty fun! And smarter than I expected! Seems like Wax being a metallurgist will be an amazing addition to his character. Hobbies add flavor to a character, and I’ve recently been wishing the MB trilogy delved into metallurgy. I love his thoughts on alloys.

Wax and Marasi’s theory that the Vanishers’ backer is breeding an army of Allomancers is SICK. We got Straff 2.0. On a lighter note, I liked seeing a man walk his dog. I'm a doggy person! And these small things make the world feel alive.

Chapter 8:

No one:
Not even Wax:
Wayne: THROUGH THE DOUBLE DOORS! AWAAAY!

Wayne is such a vibe. He’s a man of sheer rusting confidence. He's pure vibes and so was this chapter. Loved his talk with Sindren. Pretty funny, a nice show of competence and heart. Bendalloy is crazy powerful. They had a two page long conversation in the time it took Brettin to say one word. I didn't think Investiture could do stuff like this, at least not on a mortal level. Heck, this mortal level enhances the threats Ruin and Preservation could've been.

 

First set of broadsheets, forgot to react to them:

Not much here. The art for the train and Scadrian language looks great. I love the idea of a fantasy world progressing their tech instead of stagnating. I like the description of the Tekiel designed car, Hmm, so the Tekiels have bounced back up after the Final Empire’s downfall. Though.. we see a highly protected train car right after hearing about a gang of robbers. Sounds like we got a train heist on our hands!

 

There was something about a phantom railcar, but I don’t remember if this was due to the Vanishers. The Pits of Eltania sound like the homeland of Harmony's koloss, and a metal rich area. I think they're the Pits of Hathsin. 

With zinc counselors and Soothing parlors, Breeze, Allrianne, and their gang of Soothers would be eating good in the new world.

Reshelle Tekiel, Mistress Halex, Lady Cett, Lady Entrone, and a train engineer... It sounds like women have more important roles here than in the Final Empire. Or… depressingly more than they did in our world’s Industrial Revolution. This is probably part of Vin's legacy.

 

Second set of broadsheets:

Sanderson was releasing his inner Chesire Cat when writing the broadsheet stories about carriages and automobiles. Those sound like those crappy 2000s about mEsEtHeLiOmA 

A lot of stuff in this set sounds very sus. There's an island filled with unusual animals, a sole refugee encountering seafaring people, and… Unknown Metals?!?! Oh Harmony, I wish there was a wider map. Because I have no idea what this means. But it sounds like something Harmony cooked up? We know R&P could carry out mysterious, indecipherable rust even as their hosts were decaying over the millennia. Don't see why Harmony can't do the same.

You have no idea how happy I am to hear Marsh still kicking  But how?? What is ol' Ironeyes doing in Elendel  

The Faceless Immortals story sounds like either a kandra impersonation or Harmony revived the dead husband. The Emperor's Soul spoilers:

Spoiler

We know - courtesy of Ashravan's Essence Mark - that mortals can do weird things with souls. Shai either revived Ashravan by creating a new soul or healed his original soul. Harmony can do all kinds of Spiritual crap to a soul and put it in the dead husband’s body. But what would be his reason? I don't see the Scadrian Shards being frivolous on who they bring back to life. 

 

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Sanderson was releasing his inner Chesire Cat when writing the broadsheet stories about carriages and automobiles. Those sound like those crappy 2000s about mEsEtHeLiOmA

This is actually rooted in normal history. For example, an exerpt from an article about "Anti-Car" measures in the early 1900s:

Spoiler

But the most amusing (from today’s perspective) anti-automobile efforts happened in the Keystone State. At some point before 1910 (I can’t pin down the exact year), a group calling itself the Farmers’ Anti-Automobile Society of Pennsylvania proposed the following not-so-subtle additions to state law (emphasis added):

1. Automobiles traveling on country roads at night must send up a rocket every mile, then wait ten minutes for the road to clear. The driver may then proceed, with caution, blowing his horn and shooting off Roman candles, as before.

2. If the driver of an automobile sees a team of horses approaching, he is to stop, pulling over to one side of the road, and cover his machine with a blanket or dust cover which is painted or colored to blend into the scenery, and thus render the machine less noticeable.

3. In case a horse is unwilling to pass an automobile on the road, the driver of the car must take the machine apart as rapidly as possible and conceal the parts in the bushes.

 Everybody cool with this? Remember: always make sure you have your rockets and camouflage tarpaulins in the trunk before you go out for a drive!

by Martin Schneider

Various anti-car protests persisted through the 70s (not all to "get rid of cars" some just about limiting where or when they can be driven - but especially before the development and proliferation of standardized signage and traffic signals)

2 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

A lot of stuff in this set sounds very sus. There's an island filled with unusual animals, a sole refugee encountering seafaring people, and… Unknown Metals?!?! Oh Harmony, I wish there was a wider map. Because I have no idea what this means.

Some of the articles are foreshadowing, but most are worldbuilding. Remember the English Proverb:

Spoiler

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

This seems like a Scadrial variant - "Ooh, something inexplicable - it must be a new Metal"

Edited October 26, 2023 by Treamayne
Clarity

[alder24]

3 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

@alder24 I think the reason F-iron is weird is because it's not storing the type of weight we may discuss with a relative. I don't think ironminds are storing the body's "heaviness" or mass, but rather the scientific definition of weight - the force of gravity on the human body. Which is why Wax's physical appearance isn't affecting. And I bet the tapped/stored Investiture creates a proportional increase/decrease in strength. This is Wax's guess and it feels like it's true.

No, it doesn't store weight-force (which Brandon said that Wax doesn't use modern physics terminology, weight in W&W means just mass), it stores mass directly (but not in a physical sense - your body doesn't change). But this really doesn't make sense if you go into details - F-iron follows conservation of momentum, but when taking into account different reference frames it doesn't work well. And F-iron just breaks conservation of energy. It's just weird. Not to mention density is the same no matter F-iron. Just don't think about it in terms of physics, but rather as a cool magic thing.

The increase in strength doesn't make you stronger, it just allows your body to hold new gained mass and move normally - but you won't punch harder or something like that.

Spoiler

Questioner

Does Iron store mass or weight?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. The thing is it really does involve mass, but I’m breaking some physics rules, basically. I have to break a number of physics rules in order to make Magic work in the first place. Those whole laws of Thermodynamics, I’m like “You are my bane!” (laughter) But I try to work within the framework, and I have reasonings built up for myself, and some of them have to be kind of arbitrary. But the thing is, it does store mass if you look at how it interacts, but when a Feruchemist punches someone, you’re not having a mass transference of a 1000 pounds transferring the mass into someone else.

So there are a few little tweaks. You can go talk to Peter, because Peter has the actual math. Oh Peter’s back there. Peter is dressed up as Allomancer Jak from the broadsheet. In fact we’re giving some out broadsheets, aren’t we Peter. So when you come through the line, we’re giving out Broadsheets. Please don’t take fifty—I think we might have enough for everybody. The broadsheets are the newspaper from the Alloy of Law time. It’s an inworld newspaper. It’s actually reproduced in the book in four different pages, and we put it together in one big broadsheet.

So anyway, you can talk with him, he’s got more of the math of it. I explained the concept to Peter and he’s better with the actual math, so he said “We’ll figure it out.”

Alloy of Law release party (Nov. 7, 2011)

 

Spoiler

[spoilers edited out]

Brandon Sanderson

Just a note: in the quote of mine above, I was trying (I believe) to find a way for Wax to indicate that weight doesn't influence the rate at which he falls. IE, acceleration in regards to gravity. It's tough, and I made the call (perhaps incorrectly) not to use modern physics terminology in the W&W books. It has been very hard then to explain:

1). Wax changing his weight doesn't change the pull of gravity on him, or the rate at which he falls. 2) He DOES follow the laws of conservation of momentum.

My talking around these things has let me to tie a few paragraphs in knots.

General Reddit 2016 (Feb. 19, 2016)

 

3 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

A lot of stuff in this set sounds very sus. There's an island filled with unusual animals, a sole refugee encountering seafaring people, and… Unknown Metals?!?! Oh Harmony, I wish there was a wider map. Because I have no idea what this means.

Gooood, very gooood  

3 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

You have no idea how happy I am to hear Marsh still kicking  But how?? What is ol' Ironeyes doing in Elendel  

There are clues left by Brondon in the HoA Annotations, if you really want to know:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Series Wrap-Up

First Trilogy

Well, that's my first trilogy. I think I improved quite a bit as I wrote these books, and hopefully this ending will satisfy my readers. The inevitable question is going to be "Will there be more Mistborn books?" The answer is "Probably." However, know a few things.

First off, the next series—if I do it—will not include Vin or Elend. They're dead. That's just the way it is. Sorry.

Sazed might make an appearance. He is God, after all. TenSoon is still around. (Sazed stuck the spikes back into him and the other kandra.) Marsh may or may not make an appearance. (I haven't decided if he will survive or not.)

Spook, Ham, and Breeze probably won't make an appearance, though, as I would plan to write the next series some five hundred years after the events in this trilogy. (Remember, TenSoon—as a kandra—is immortal. Marsh is also functionally immortal, as he's both a Feruchemist and an Allomancer, and can combine the powers to reverse his aging. Assuming he has enough atium left from that batch he stole to keep it up for a while, and assuming he managed to grab some cover before the world ended.)

However, this won't be for some time. I've got other projects I want to do, not the least of which is Warbreaker and (probably) its sequel. After that, I want to try a longer series, maybe a five- or six-book one. [Editor's note: Brandon was referring to the Dragonsteel series, which he's now put off in favor of the Stormlight Archive, book one of which, The Way of Kings, comes out on August 31, 2010.]

We shall see.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (June 22, 2010)

 

[Shadeshadow227]

8 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

The Pits of Eltania sound like the homeland of Harmony's koloss, and a metal rich area. I think they're the Pits of Hathsin. 

The Allomancer Jak story was actually made into a short story for the Mistborn Adventure Game Alloy of Law book, I know it's at least in Arcanum Unbounded. Regardless, you can actually read it, if you want. IIRC, there's not really any spoilers for Era 2 in it.

[Treamayne]

59 minutes ago, Shadeshadow227 said:

The Allomancer Jak story was actually made into a short story for the Mistborn Adventure Game Alloy of Law book, I know it's at least in Arcanum Unbounded. Regardless, you can actually read it, if you want. IIRC, there's not really any spoilers for Era 2 in it.

From a Spoiler perspective, Pits can be read any time in Era 2. However. . . (considerations)

Spoiler

In the Reading Order Suggestions we normally place it after Alloy of Law, mostly because it does not explain the worldbuilding terms like "twinborn" (expecting the reader would already be familiar with those concepts). 

From a chronology persective, the events of "Pits" come before Alloy of Law (since the article had to be written and submitted to the broadsheets all before the events of AoL.

 

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

Good to hear I'm on the right track with the weird island.

Chapter 9 reaction:

This chapter's got the classic trope "The butler did it!" Man, the explosion was TENSE. And surprisingly gruesome once Wayne healed his back and had Wax rip it off. That was gross, my kind of scene! I forgot how gory the Cosmere could be.

I have sone things to note about this chapter:

1. The sequence where the trio question how to escape the explosion reminds me that Wax isn't a Mistborn. His combo seems ridiculously powerful, but he can't make his body tougher or pull out metal. And I like the note that Wayne can't stop time. At first, I almost thought he did. Their powers keep getting more interesting.

2. Seems like Brandon is trying to get Wax together with Marasi, which sounds sweet. I love Marasi’s Inquisitive personality and her talk about the Ascendant Warrior. It takes me way back to the Warrior’s own journey on building up her confidence and desires. Marasi’s theories on crime are making me think a lot about the real world. Honestly, I feel like they could be true in our world. Wouldn’t be surprised if Brandon did research on what can affect crime rates.

3. Looks like Preservation's obsession with 16 became a thing in Scadrian beliefs - the Law of Sixteen. I wonder if Harmony has the same deal. 

4. The chapter opened up with Wax thinking that Harmony either changed how Allomancy works, or the world doesn't truly understand it. I think it's both, cuz the Vanishers' supposed plot and Spook's genealogical lines have my gears spinning. Straff Venture was a Tineye. We know he slept with many non-Misting mistresses, and through his efforts was able to produce one Mistborn. Kelsier and Vin's parents were most likely not Allomancers, Spook the Lord Mistborn... was a Mistborn. But even after being the post-apocalyptic Genghis Khan, he doesn’t have any Mistborn descendants. And we know from Hemalurgy, and probably certain feats from Soul Forgery, that the ability to use Allomancy and Feruchemy can be ripped out of or grafted to the soul. I think Allomancy isn't granted by genetics, but by the soul. And I think Harmony altered all Scadrian souls so that Mistborn were no longer possible after Spook's death. But I have no idea why he would do this... I wonder if there was a similar alteration for Feruchemy.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Ale the Metallic Conjurer