The Inconsistencies of Feruchemically Storing Death (Revised Edition)

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

I've started a similar topic before, but it wasn't exactly fantastic, and wasn't really well worded (I had a child's grammar mistake in the topic, that's how bad it was). So here's take 2.

 

Say there was a metal called Deathium (yes, breaks the rule of 16, I know). for the sake of the argument, let's say it's got the physical properties of iron. Allomancers die instantly from burning it, but Feruchemists can use it to store death (Not sure what it does for Metalurgy. Let's say we don't know). Feruchemists have to be on the verge of death to store it, and therefore gain a stinted version of immortality. Not storing it will result in the delayed death. Tapping into it would not be possible, as the user would be dead before that could happen.

 

There are obviously a few flaws with the theory. What if - say - your lungs were torn out of you, but you were storing death. How would you breath, and therefore live? In short, how could you be alive, even though your bodily functions of staying alive are gone? 

 

So, to sum it up: Hypothetically, how can you be alive while storing death in a hypothetical metal when you could only be physically dead? (We're not going into the cognitive realm or spiritual one).

[weebojello]

I think if we're talking about anything cosmere related, the abilities have to involve Cognitive and Spiritual. For instance, ascending to a shard consumes your body, so you are "physically" dead while still being a live.

 

Being nearly dead (assuming from a virus) would be really powerful on at least one shardworld.

[Observer]

I imagine it would allow your brain to keep getting O2 without the lungs, same way it would keep creating O2 for the brain if you lost that precious blood that normally keeps it fed.

 

I guess, to make this point, we must inspect the causes of death for a bit. There's really only two I can think of. The destruction of your brain, which ends you as a person by destroying crucial synapses, and loss of air, which is caused by basically every other type of death ie bloodloss, organ damage, suffocation, etc. Those are, so far as I can remember at this time of morning, the two base causes of death. If you were somehow storing death, I'd assume it would be similar to tapping oxygen, with braindeath still being possible. You wouldn't be able to die simply because you are magically being supplied with everything you need to live. So this can already kind of happen. Then again, I'm basing everything in this post on flawed, half-asleep memories, so I could be very wrong.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Observer

[Edgedancer he/him]

Death is the absence of life, so I dont think you could store a negative (and storing isn´t supposed to have more benefits than tapping but that´s beside the point).

The only alternative I could come up with would be something like "physical change" or "Metabolism" or something like that, which could put you in a stasis and keep you from bleeding out, because your blood flow stops, or suffucating, by removing your need for breath, until something puts you in a position where your life isn´t in danger anymore. Granted that wouldn´t help with having you lungs shot out and other instantly fatal wounds but it at least approches you idea.

[happyman he/him]

I think if we're talking about anything cosmere related, the abilities have to involve Cognitive and Spiritual. For instance, ascending to a shard consumes your body, so you are "physically" dead while still being a live.

 

Being nearly dead (assuming from a virus) would be really powerful on at least one shardworld.

 

Small nitpick:  Evidence points to the body not being killed, but being sent elsewhere while the person is ascended.

 

Evidence:  Ati, Leras and Vin all produced their physical bodies again when they died, and Brandon has stated that Ati would have to "physically" metabolize the Atium in order to get his power back.  This suggests that Shards keep their physical bodies elsewhere.  Wherever that is.

Edited August 22, 2014 by happyman

[Unodus he/him]

For the sake of argument, suppose storing death didn't keep you "alive", but rather- stopped your body on a cellular level from "dying"?

If anyone's seen "Torchwood", I'm basically referring to that bland of logic...

 

This has been referred to broadly in other peoples suggestions, so I'll try and be as simple as possible... .3.;

So, technically speaking- "death" occurs when all your cells stop respiring (to create energy to make more cells, etc), so using stored death would stop your body on a cellular level from working, even with the right components. Suppose then, that storing "Death" would cause your cells to function, even without the right components. So, that would mean your cells could still function without having to respire to create energy (and when using the stored metal, your cells would stop functioning). The cool thing about this would be that you wouldn't need to breath- as you wouldn't require oxygen for respiration- the same would apply for eating and drinking. You also wouldn't need blood (to an extent), as blood mostly carries around that oxygen (but blood also carries a bunch of other useful stuff like hormones, so that could only work in the short term). Obviously, your brain and nervous system aren't affected by the change, you'll still feel pain (but your body won't rot), and if your brain is severed somehow (or your muscles rip, or something...)- you won't be able to use them. Storing death only means that your Cells won't need to live off anything, so there are a variety of bodily functions that would be not needed (specifically revolving around distributing stuff to the cells).

This is purely speculation, of course (it would probably make more sense for storing health, I guess... .3.- and doesn't really rely on any evidence, so I may be completely wrong. I'd appreciate being corrected :3

[Shardcellist]

Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed to die. Failed. Failed. Failed. Unable to die.

 

AKA: Brandon's already done this.

[skaa he/him]

There are obviously a few flaws with the theory. What if - say - your lungs were torn out of you, but you were storing death. How would you breath, and therefore live? In short, how could you be alive, even though your bodily functions of staying alive are gone?

So, to sum it up: Hypothetically, how can you be alive while storing death in a hypothetical metal when you could only be physically dead? (We're not going into the cognitive realm or spiritual one).

We know that certain forms of Investiture allow a person to live even when physical life as we know it (i.e. having functioning organs) is impossible. One example would be the immortal Mistwraiths, for whom lungs (to use your example) are nothing but mere decorations.

I think it's theoretically possible that there's an Allomantic metal (probably an alloy of a God Metal) that does something similar to your hypothetical Deathium, Lightsworn, and that this can be used to create immortal beings like Mistwraiths. But instead of storing death, I propose that this metal stores one's spirit. Immortality is just a side-effect, because you can't die unless your spirit is destroyed or leaves the Physical realm. The metal would act like a lich phylactery or a Horcrux, binding your life to the Physical.

But moving your spirit from your body to a piece of metal would have drastic consequences on your Identity, especially on how it views your now-spirit-less physical body parts. Maybe that's why Mistwraiths can discard and acquire body parts so casually.

Also, just like how you'd forget a memory that you stored in a Coppermind, your Cognitive aspect would lose its link to your Spiritual aspect if you store your spirit somewhere else. This may explain why Mistwraiths seem to act like zombies, and why they don't exhibit Feruchemical powers even though they were once Feruchemists. This would also be why Kandra Blessings can "wake" Mistwraiths up from their zombie state. The Blessings, being Hemalurgic spikes and therefore having torn bits of someone's spirit, give Mistwraiths the Spiritual boost they need to start showing sentience.

If I'm right about all that, then somewhere on Scadrial there is a metal store containing the living spirits of all the Feruchemists that TLR turned into immortal Mistwraiths during his Ascension.

Edited November 12, 2014 by skaa

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Actually I believe technically mistwraiths are not immortal, kandra are immortal.  If I remember correctly, and I don't remember where this is revealed (probably the annotations?) mistwraiths only have a 50 year lifespan.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Actually I believe technically mistwraiths are not immortal, kandra are immortal.  If I remember correctly, and I don't remember where this is revealed (probably the annotations?) mistwraiths only have a 50 year lifespan.

 

Yup.

[skaa he/him]

Ah. I stand corrected about the mistwraiths being immortal and all the stuff derived from that claim. Thanks guys.

Edited November 13, 2014 by skaa